Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: philipfirth on 06 January 2010, 19:39:33
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Hi All, Hope you can help me with is. Its doing my head in.
Car is a 2.2 auto.
Problems started about 8 weeks ago. Had the car since April and been really happy with the car. 8 weeks ago i got a coolant warning on the dash, thought nothing of it and topped it up. Got the same warning about a week later and then the problems started.
Its been losing water more and more and the cooling system seemed to be getting airlocked causing it to over heat slightly. The temp gauge would go over the normal 90 oC but once i gave it a quick boot upto 4/5 thousand revs the temp would come down back to normal.
This got worse and has now stopped the heating working altogether and overheats all the time now.
I have has this problem before on a Fiat bravo overheating and the heating not working and it was a pressure block. Released the pressure with a bleed value on the system but I werent losing water with that car.
Got a funny feeling that it is the thermostat stuck, but this doesnt explain the lost water problem.
Been into a motor store to get a e10 socket to remove the thermostat cover and they reckon it is the head gasket.
Any ideas??
I have checked the oil filler cap and dipstick and they look normal with oil so dont think it is the head gasket but im not sure.
Please please help. Im at my whits end.
Going to remove the thermostat cover soon and remove the thermostat, just waiting for the engine to cool down.
Many Thanks
Phil
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Do you have any idea where the water is leaking from ?? Check the back of the engine as the HBV (Heater Bypass Valve) is a known source of problems.
That amount of water MUST be visible surely !!! :)
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What is your location?
One of us may be nearby...
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Do you have any idea where the water is leaking from ?? Check the back of the engine as the HBV (Heater Bypass Valve) is a known source of problems.
That amount of water MUST be visible surely !!! :)
Mine wasn`t and it was the head gasket :'(
Is the engine a tad lumpy for about 30secs/1min on initial start up. Any steam from exhaust?
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Do you have any idea where the water is leaking from ?? Check the back of the engine as the HBV (Heater Bypass Valve) is a known source of problems.
That amount of water MUST be visible surely !!! :)
Cant see anywhere from where the water is leaking from. Raining weather and this bad weather isnt helping me notice tho. Is it at the back of the engine on mine as the engine on mine is turned round being an auto (I think). What does it look like?
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What is your location?
One of us may be nearby...
My location is Denton, Manchester.
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Do you have any idea where the water is leaking from ?? Check the back of the engine as the HBV (Heater Bypass Valve) is a known source of problems.
That amount of water MUST be visible surely !!! :)
Cant see anywhere from where the water is leaking from. Raining weather and this bad weather isnt helping me notice tho. Is it at the back of the engine on mine as the engine on mine is turned round being an auto (I think). What does it look like?
Yep. Driver`s side, where the two heater hoses enter the bulkhead, follow hoses down towards the right and you`ll see a black starship thingy where they connect. That`s it
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Do you have any idea where the water is leaking from ?? Check the back of the engine as the HBV (Heater Bypass Valve) is a known source of problems.
That amount of water MUST be visible surely !!! :)
Cant see anywhere from where the water is leaking from. Raining weather and this bad weather isnt helping me notice tho. Is it at the back of the engine on mine as the engine on mine is turned round being an auto (I think). What does it look like?
Yep. Driver`s side, where the two heater hoses enter the bulkhead, follow hoses down towards the right and you`ll see a black starship thingy where they connect. That`s it
Can I see it from under the bonnect or do I need to get underneath?
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Do you have any idea where the water is leaking from ?? Check the back of the engine as the HBV (Heater Bypass Valve) is a known source of problems.
That amount of water MUST be visible surely !!! :)
Mine wasn`t and it was the head gasket :'(
Is the engine a tad lumpy for about 30secs/1min on initial start up. Any steam from exhaust?
No lumpyness, there is steam from the exhaust.
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In the temperatures we have at the moment steam from the exhaust is almost mandatory !!1 Just look at every other car on the road .. and think do they all have knackered Head Gaskets !!!!
My thoughts are quite simple ... with the rate you are losing water .. if it was from the HG into a cylinder you'd probably have other problems .. major ones !!! Therefore it is an "external" leak of some sort and it just needs a dry day and a bit of looking for ... It might be an external leak from the HG .. but it might be from 101 other places as well !!!
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In the temperatures we have at the moment steam from the exhaust is almost mandatory !!1 Just look at every other car on the road .. and think do they all have knackered Head Gaskets !!!!
My thoughts are quite simple ... with the rate you are losing water .. if it was from the HG into a cylinder you'd probably have other problems .. major ones !!! Therefore it is an "external" leak of some sort and it just needs a dry day and a bit of looking for ... It might be an external leak from the HG .. but it might be from 101 other places as well !!!
Going to have a look for the HBV in a minute but how do I go about releasing the pressure to get the heating working for the min?
Also would a faulty HBV cause the engine to over heat?
Thanks
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In the temperatures we have at the moment steam from the exhaust is almost mandatory !!1 Just look at every other car on the road .. and think do they all have knackered Head Gaskets !!!!
My thoughts are quite simple ... with the rate you are losing water .. if it was from the HG into a cylinder you'd probably have other problems .. major ones !!! Therefore it is an "external" leak of some sort and it just needs a dry day and a bit of looking for ... It might be an external leak from the HG .. but it might be from 101 other places as well !!!
Going to have a look for the HBV in a minute but how do I go about releasing the pressure to get the heating working for the min?
Also would a faulty HBV cause the engine to over heat?
Thanks
No... But the lack of coolant in the system would!
I hope you're topping up with 50:50 antifreeze mix, especially in this weather :o :o
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Checked the HBV and it doesn't look like its leaking. Should I take the thermostat out to see if it makes any difference?
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AS LD says ... :)
Think about it ... as you lose water, the amount in the system reduces and has to absorb the same amount of heat, so it must run hotter, you lose a bit more .. gets a bit hotter yet.... you lose a bit more.. the level might drop below the water pump input so now you are not moving the water through the rad but it still has to absorb heat .... (you've just made your engine into a kettle) so it now gets hot quickly... you give it some revs and the water pump goes around much faster... might just pick up and move some water so the temp drops a bit for a short while ... but all the time you are losing water still...... :(
The importance of a 50:50 mix canot be overstated .... obviously you need the antifreeze because of the temperatures right now .. but you also need the anti-corrosion additives or you will have even more problems in the future.
It might seem expensive to put antifreeze into a leaking engine .. but if you don't you won't have an engine .. you'll have a useless lump of metal !!
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I don't see it being the thermostat simply because if that was stuck shut and you revved the engine the temperature would RISE due to the energy you are adding to the system, and a thermostat won't cause a los of fluid
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Unless you can see coolant leaking around the thermostat it won't be the cause :y :y :y
If the leak is at the back I'd still have my money on the HBV ;) ;) ;)
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In the temperatures we have at the moment steam from the exhaust is almost mandatory !!1 Just look at every other car on the road .. and think do they all have knackered Head Gaskets !!!!
My thoughts are quite simple ... with the rate you are losing water .. if it was from the HG into a cylinder you'd probably have other problems .. major ones !!! Therefore it is an "external" leak of some sort and it just needs a dry day and a bit of looking for ... It might be an external leak from the HG .. but it might be from 101 other places as well !!!
Not wishing to be devil`s advocate but I reached the stage where I was losing all the coolant in the header tank within 10 miles and the only symptons I experienced whilst driving was a steam cloud from the exhaust. Have you removed the header cap and sniffed for any smell of fuel/combustion fumes?
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Philip, I am having identical probs to you & I too have a 2.2! However, I know for certain I have a leaking HG as there is a strong smell of exhaust gas in the coolant bottle coupled with air/gas bubbling into the bottle from the small hose connected on the back left which is connected to the throttle body. This causes a buildup of pressure in the cooling system which vents through the cap & covers the engine in a fine coolant mist. The coolant loss is getting worse by the day & really causing problems with misfire & uneven running/accelleration.I suggest you check out your coolant bottle for similar signs. Incidentally, I have no oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. I would strongly suggest you top up with NEAT coolant until the problem is solved with the weather being as it is & also if you live in a Hard Water area. HTH :y
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I don't see it being the thermostat simply because if that was stuck shut and you revved the engine the temperature would RISE due to the energy you are adding to the system, and a thermostat won't cause a los of fluid
The temp does seem to rise as the engine is revved. From cold sat there is goes up slowly to around 100. From cold driving it goes up a hell of a lot quicker. The water must be leaking some where else. Ive got the thermostat in a pan of hot water now to see if it working.
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In the temperatures we have at the moment steam from the exhaust is almost mandatory !!1 Just look at every other car on the road .. and think do they all have knackered Head Gaskets !!!!
My thoughts are quite simple ... with the rate you are losing water .. if it was from the HG into a cylinder you'd probably have other problems .. major ones !!! Therefore it is an "external" leak of some sort and it just needs a dry day and a bit of looking for ... It might be an external leak from the HG .. but it might be from 101 other places as well !!!
Not wishing to be devil`s advocate but I reached the stage where I was losing all the coolant in the header tank within 10 miles and the only symptons I experienced whilst driving was a steam cloud from the exhaust. Have you removed the header cap and sniffed for any smell of fuel/combustion fumes?
Checked the thermostat and its working fine. Going to put it back top the coolant up and have a sniff in the header filler.
Will keep you updated.
Thanks
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The pressure test http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1225142864 has worked for me whenever I have had a mystery coolant leak.
If you pressurise the system it can take a while for the leak to become apparent (allow an hour). A complication on the Omega is the HBV because it sometimes leaks intermittently.
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The method I used to confirm the HG problem on ours was visual, looking down the sparkplug holes.
If the plugwells are dry and free from oil or other fluid, it's dead easy. Take out the spark plugs, shine a bright little torch down the holes, and hope to see the crowns of all 4 pistons looking bone dry. If there is any fluid on any of them, bodge up a 'dipstick' from something like a chopstick with a bit of kitchen towel secured to the tip. If the liquid looks/smells anything like coolant, you've found your problem.
If the plugwells were full of oil before plug removal it's not going to be so easy to see, as some of this will inevitably fall onto the piston crown when you remove the plugs.
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Right time for the update. Fitted the thermostat back on and refilled with coolant.
Started the car and let it idol. Temp rose slowly but the heating didnt work. Once it got to about 95oC the water started to come out of the filler head ( I didnt have the cap on). The water was steaming hot and didnt smell of petrol. Stop the engine and went in to get some more coolant. Refilled which it took about 1.5 litres. Started the car again and the water moved up and down in the filler tank. I put the cap on and the water level went down. Undid the cap to top it up and it rose back up again. Check all round and cant see anything leaking altho it is dark outside.
Also there isnt much stream coming from the exhaust, just what you would expect in this weather. At no point did the heating blow hot.
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Update, Just been out looking at the car now and have found the coolant leaking from the rear of the engine which looks like its the HBV. Just waiting for a call back for a price and probably wont be able to get 1 until tomorrow.
Is there anything I can do to stop it leaking in the mean time as the coolant is costing me a fortune!
Cheers
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One easy test to check if the head gasket is leaking:
before starting the car open your coolant expansion tank, then start the engine and check if the water is "boiling" - it will look like it is boiling because of the pressured gasses from cylinders will be running out through the water...
If this looks OK:
check if your windscreen is steaming from inside when the heating is on, it would indicate a leak in heating radiator - this would explain both your water leaking AND the heating not working well...