Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Koomorph on 20 December 2009, 20:15:46
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Following on from my crank shaft sensor post, I thought I start a new post that is related to my oil leak/cam cover gasket/possible head gasket issue... so that I’m not posting two different issues under one thread.
If coolant was getting into the combustion chamber I'm guessing it wouldn't run very smoothly....
People have reported running on 4 or 5 cylinders immediately after starting.
Theoretically, if the quantity of coolant in the cylinder exceeds the combustion chamber volume at TDC then hydraulic lock could result in a bent conrod. The coolant loss and other mysterious cooling ailments usually become impossible to ignore before that stage is reached though.
Right - so I have to keep an eye on the coolant level?
As the car won't be driven much at all over the Christmas period (especially with the faulty crank sensor which needs doing) - that may be difficult to diagnose.
I'm really hoping that it's an oil leak rather then coolant leak. :-/
Just to reiterate as in the other post – (I'm hope this is ok to post here - as this is a different issue from the crank sensor). 2002 2.6 CD Omega, 81K miles.
From where it looks like the oil (possibly coolant) has come from the back of the engine somewhere. I haven’t been able to get her up to see exactly where.
- I’ve checked under the oil filer cap and there is some mayo coating on the back of the neck of the filler tube.
- Dipstick oil is very clear however – but could have been changed recently – no bubbles.
- The coolant level does seem a little low however in the expansion tank – about half full.
- Car drives very smoothly though, nothing lumpy… didn't overheat on the 45min drive home (although I wasn't giving her loads of beans and it was a very cold day).
- Car isn’t smoking from the exhaust.
Is there anywhere I can look specifically to try to determine if it is the cam gaskets or otherwise?
And as previously asked – if there are any kind mechanics in the South East area that for a fee would be so kind as to look over the engine to see what this could be, my dad and I would be really grateful. (although understood that this would probably be after Christmas now).
Thanks again everyone.
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Check behind the engine, not sure if ithe cam cover gasket looks the same as on mine, but mine leaked next to rubber half moon on the back of the engine.
You can feel the rubber half moon on 2.2, but not sure about 2.6
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Have a look at the camcover bolt heads, if they are very slightly seeping oil it is a sign of overpressure. The leak is at the bottom edge. If you can pull a couple of plug leads and check around the plugs .. thats where it can collect as well. The oil has a tendency to run down the back of the engine and drip off the two bolts at the front of the gearbox (if its an auto .. don't know about manuals).
I've been told this .. but have no idea if it works or not .... after a normal drive, so the engine is at working temp ... leave it to idle for 2-3 minutes then take the oil filler cap off whist the engine is idling. If you get a noticeable bit of pressure release it is an indicatio that the breathers are blocked .. and it is this (and overtightening of the cam cover bolts) that causes the gaskets to go.
Essentially the gasket is acting as a safety valve and releasing the pressure before some other seal blows ... which is why steel covers ala astra should NOT IMHO be fitted .. :)
HTH
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Ok, thank you - I'll try to give this a check as soon as I can.
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Have a look at the camcover bolt heads, if they are very slightly seeping oil it is a sign of overpressure. The leak is at the bottom edge. If you can pull a couple of plug leads and check around the plugs .. thats where it can collect as well. The oil has a tendency to run down the back of the engine and drip off the two bolts at the front of the gearbox (if its an auto .. don't know about manuals).
I've been told this .. but have no idea if it works or not .... after a normal drive, so the engine is at working temp ... leave it to idle for 2-3 minutes then take the oil filler cap off whist the engine is idling. If you get a noticeable bit of pressure release it is an indicatio that the breathers are blocked .. and it is this (and overtightening of the cam cover bolts) that causes the gaskets to go.
Essentially the gasket is acting as a safety valve and releasing the pressure before some other seal blows ... which is why steel covers ala astra should NOT IMHO be fitted .. :)
HTH
Vectra ;)
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Have a look at the camcover bolt heads, if they are very slightly seeping oil it is a sign of overpressure. The leak is at the bottom edge. If you can pull a couple of plug leads and check around the plugs .. thats where it can collect as well. The oil has a tendency to run down the back of the engine and drip off the two bolts at the front of the gearbox (if its an auto .. don't know about manuals).
I've been told this .. but have no idea if it works or not .... after a normal drive, so the engine is at working temp ... leave it to idle for 2-3 minutes then take the oil filler cap off whist the engine is idling. If you get a noticeable bit of pressure release it is an indicatio that the breathers are blocked .. and it is this (and overtightening of the cam cover bolts) that causes the gaskets to go.
Essentially the gasket is acting as a safety valve and releasing the pressure before some other seal blows ... which is why steel covers ala astra should NOT IMHO be fitted .. :)
HTH
Vectra ;)
OK .. delete all highlighted words ..... insert "some small wierd car with front wheel drive" ...... :)
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Managed to have a quick pooke around the car today.
Couldn't really verify if the oil is leaking from the cam covers - the cam cover bolts (what I'm guessing are them) were a little grimey, after cleaning them up I couldn't really tell if oil was coming from them.
I checked the patch under the car, but again, becasue of all the melting snow under the car turning into puddles, it wasn't totally clear if it was oil that had leaked or coolant - although the puddle of melted snow under the car did have a vague "oil" sheen.... but I'm guessing that if it was coolant - it could look similar if it was slightly... "greasy" from moving around the engine.
Ran the car for about 5mins at idle (not really warmed up) - took off the coolant filler cap (very small hiss) and had a sniff. Didn't smell of exhaust fumes - slightly of "engine" - but nothing specifically like exhaust.
I'm slowly trying to eliminate all the possibilities - so far I'm guessing that if it turns out to be coolant that is leaking - it could possibly be the HBV (or HGF..)... but if it's oil that is leaking (and the cam covers are leaking) then it's cam cover gaskets and breathers cleaning....
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Had a chance to have a good look at the engine today in the light - found some areas where there seems to be quite a bit of oil - pics below.
Firstly on the right side of what I think is the right bank cam cover.... that entire edge (marked with the arrows) was very oily and you can see the bolt below covered in oil I'm guessing that has dripped from above....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/koomorph/IMG_0460-1.jpg)
And also what looks like quite a bit sitting low on the front of the engine below the pulleys and belts.....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/koomorph/IMG_0461.jpg)
So what are peoples thoughts? Cam covers and breathers?
As the car hasn't been driven much over the last week I haven't had a chacne to see if the coolant is getting lower - at this stage it seems that the leak is isolated to just oil....
Many thanks!
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Remove one of the coil packs see if the plugwells are full of oil. Sure sign of camgaskets leaking
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Okidoke, I'll have a look at the left hand bank one as soon as I can as it seems to be the easier of the two to undo and remove.
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Went for a short drive today - lots of stopping and starting and idling in traffic and when I got home, I thought I'd look under the oil filler cap....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/koomorph/IMG_0463.jpg)
I haven't got much experieince of omega's but as I understand, some mayo is normal - this seems like an extraordinary amount of mayo however...
The coolant expansion tank looks clear however can't see any oil and water mixing in there - and doesn't especially smell of exhaust fumes.
Even though the car seems to be loosing oil rather than coolant and not over heating... I'm really fearing the worst now.... :(
What are people's thoughts..?
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why kind of oil do you use? Castrol Mayo's badly, GM's own is best value and does not mayo.
Breathers clean?
Stick some GM oil in there, clean the breathers and take it for a long run!
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I don't know what the oil is in there as I only bought her a few weeks back. I'm concerned also about taking her for a long run as the crank sensor I think is causing her to cut out after a while of driving.... seems not to cut out when the heater is on high though...
Haven't cleaned the breathers as I'm not 100% up to the task.... I think the oil leak is form the cam gaskets as well judging from my other pics. I think I could do with paying a forum member to give her a good looking over - and possibly change the gamgaskets and clean breathers. :'(
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Just spoken to vauxhall about getting new cam cover gaskets, and was told that I should really buy the cam covers as well in case they have been mishaped... Is that the case or will the just the gaskets do the job? Quite a difference in the price to get the cam covers as well....
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Just spoken to vauxhall about getting new cam cover gaskets, and was told that I should really buy the cam covers as well in case they have been mishaped... Is that the case or will the just the gaskets do the job? Quite a difference in the price to get the cam covers as well....
They`re trying to have you over matey
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IMHO the mayo on the filler neck is quite normal. The oil around the lower pulley is most likely leaking from oil pressure sender (which is easy and cheap to fix).
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Ok, thanks guys, putting my mind slightly at ease now... :)
I thought the oil by the pulleys may have also been from the cam gaskets.. If you look at the other picture, the side of the cam cover has a lot of oil. Might I have two leaks then! :o
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A couple more bits regarding this if people could give me some pointers:
1) Been trying to find some info on here regarding the oil pressure sender posted by kcl above - can't seem to find any info... can anyone point me in the right direction regarding this?
2) Also, when I spoke to VX about getting the rocker cover gaskets, the parts guy mentioned that the mayo in the oil filler neck could be due to a failed heat exchanger... does that sound right? Or does he mean failed HBV?
3) Although I hope it isn't HGF, if it was, would this in any way contribute to failure of the cam gaskets? I don't want to go changing the cam gaskets only to find out that they fail again shortly after because of HGF is causing a knock on effect making the cam gaskets fail.... Or would these two problems be totally unrelated and cam gasket failure is ONLY as a result of breathers getting blocked?
Thanks for the advice again!
Raf
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A couple more bits regarding this if people could give me some pointers:
1) Been trying to find some info on here regarding the oil pressure sender posted by kcl above - can't seem to find any info... can anyone point me in the right direction regarding this?What was the question? The oil pressure switch (I don't think it as a sender) is in the side of the oil pump housing on the front of the block. They can leak through the body of the switch. If the switch is overtightened then the aluminium pump housing can be damaged.
2) Also, when I spoke to VX about getting the rocker cover gaskets, the parts guy mentioned that the mayo in the oil filler neck could be due to a failed heat exchanger... does that sound right? Or does he mean failed HBV?
AKA oil cooler. Lives in a recess in the vee under the inlet manifold. My 2.6 had a new one fitted just before I bought it in September because the original failed
3) Although I hope it isn't HGF, if it was, would this in any way contribute to failure of the cam gaskets? I don't want to go changing the cam gaskets only to find out that they fail again shortly after because of HGF is causing a knock on effect making the cam gaskets fail.... Or would these two problems be totally unrelated and cam gasket failure is ONLY as a result of breathers getting blocked?
Cam cover gaskets seem to fail due to combination of hardening through age and pressurisation of the crankcase. If you did have a failed HG then you would have either coolant running down the back of the block or the cooling system be pressurised. Failed HG on the V6 don't seem to cause mayo.
Thanks for the advice again!
Raf
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Thanks Andy, so as far as I can tell, not only should replace the cam gaskets which seem to be leaking, but also possibly the oil pressure switch. Are there any guides to changing the oil pressure switch on here?
The oil cooler as far as I'm aware accoridng to the replacement guide on here - if it were failing - would give the result of oil in the coolant - which doesn't seem to be the case here. However, could a failed oil cooler result in oil leaking as per my pictures (around the engine) rather than oil in the coolant?
Any other way to narrow it down to being a failed oil cooler rather than the cam gaskets (or just the cam gaskets)?
Many thanks again
Raf
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Cam gaskets are a very common failure. They make a mess and can leave a puddle of oil on top of the oil pan in front of the engine.
I haven't changed the oil pressure switch on an Omega, I have done on an old Viva and on a Triumph motorbike (because it was leaking). In both cases they just screwed in. I can't remember whether they used a copper washer or a smear of sealant but it was important not to overtighten them.
If the oil cooler fails you will get a filthy mess in the header tank as engine oil gets pumped into the cooling circuit. When the engine is off (but still hot) pressurised coolant will find its way into the lubrication system (which will cause mayo).
From the pictures you posted you have leaking cam gaskets. No big problem, clean out the breathers and fit genuine new cam gaskets before looking for more expensive problems to fix.
HTH
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The guy at VX is talking out of his @rse regarding the heat exchanger (oil cooler) if this fails you will have lots of creamy mayo in your coolant header tank.
As already sais,the mayo in the filler neck is not something to be unduly concerned bout.
HG problem wouldnt be connected to camcover gasket leakage - that is caused by blocked breathers, which in turn is caused by oil change intervals being stretched too far, should be a maximum of 5000 miles.HTH. :y
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OK, thanks gents - have been in touch with Robsey from this forum who has agreed to help me with the breathers and cam gasket change. Will do this as soon as the weather improves a bit!
Thanks again!
Raf