Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Kevin Wood on 28 November 2007, 11:08:55
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Well, JamesV6CDX's LPG conversion went very smoothly, the kit seems to include everything required and there were no issues whatsoever fitting it to an Omega.
I also heard back from Jeremy today regarding the bulk buy I proposed and he's prepared to offer a discount of 10% on the front end kits giving a saving of about £50 off the EBay price of £495.
Regarding the fitting, James and I were thinking about this at the weekend. 3 of us spent the best part of a weekend getting his car up and running. We did everything except fitting the LPG tank and mounting and connecting the filler and it was pretty hard work. We did spend a bit of time chasing round for parts on Saturday morning and the obligatory breaks for tea, bacon sarnies and (later in the day) beer. I'm not sure that we'd get a lot of kits fitted at an "LPG party" if we were going to tackle complete installs. However, as long as people are happy to tackle the straightforward bits themselves (tank and filler fitting, pipe & cable routing, vapouriser mounting, etc.) I think a party where we finish off the details and do the tricky bits, make electrical connections, check systems over and adjust fuel maps would be a good idea.
Having seen James' install I'm certainly happy to go ahead with it myself. Do we have any more who are prepared to firm up their interest in this?
Kevin
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My interest is concrete. I have got a tank which I hope to install at the weekend (weather permitting).
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Hi Kevin,
I'm up for your oil LPG party, however i have to watch my penny's. (James knows why)
I'm also one of these people who dont no 1 end of a car to another.
So i would need the full work's?
Is there a total, all parts + labour.
Thank's.
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Count me in please.
I would feel quite comfortable handling the items that you mention. What sort of time frames are we looking at for "the gathering"?
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i'd be interested.
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100% :y
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What sort of time frames are we looking at for "the gathering"?
I'm pretty flexible really. Subject to having a venue, the LPG kits and enough cars in the right state of readiness we can do it whenever suits.
Is there a total, all parts + labour.
We've only really considered DIY kits. For parts for a full DIY installation I'd say around £700 once you've got the tank and all other bits and pieces. For a professional installation I believe Elite Pete found a guy who could do it around the £1k mark. It might also be worth giving Jeremy a call as he does installations too. I'll drop you a PM with his phone number.
I'd say that whilst most of the installation is pretty straightforward, and help is available for the tricky bits, it's probably not something to tackle as your first automotive "project".
Kevin
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i would be happy to get involved form a help point of view having done mine and discovered some of the pitfalls
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What sort of time frames are we looking at for "the gathering"?
I'm pretty flexible really. Subject to having a venue, the LPG kits and enough cars in the right state of readiness we can do it whenever suits.
Is there a total, all parts + labour.
We've only really considered DIY kits. For parts for a full DIY installation I'd say around £700 once you've got the tank and all other bits and pieces. For a professional installation I believe Elite Pete found a guy who could do it around the £1k mark. It might also be worth giving Jeremy a call as he does installations too. I'll drop you a PM with his phone number.
I'd say that whilst most of the installation is pretty straightforward, and help is available for the tricky bits, it's probably not something to tackle as your first automotive "project".
Kevin
Just to put it into context i bought the lot from Jeremy, it cost me £705 and that was for the 70l tank, factor into this certification (between £50 and £100 depends on who does it) and you are still quids in.
the kit comes with the LPGA guidlines, if these are followed then you really cant go wrong, for me the scariest bit was drilling the rear bumper.
In addition i have a spare inlet manifold that i am happy to donate to someone in order to drill out for the nozzels, this means that you just then swap your old one for this one and that can then be passed on to someone else to do the same (thus reducing time)
It's not something i would recommend as a first project to try on your own, but the mounting of the vapouriser, tank, ecu and injectors could be done by anyone who is confident with a hammer and tools :y
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What sort of time frames are we looking at for "the gathering"?
I'm pretty flexible really. Subject to having a venue, the LPG kits and enough cars in the right state of readiness we can do it whenever suits.
Is there a total, all parts + labour.
We've only really considered DIY kits. For parts for a full DIY installation I'd say around £700 once you've got the tank and all other bits and pieces. For a professional installation I believe Elite Pete found a guy who could do it around the £1k mark. It might also be worth giving Jeremy a call as he does installations too. I'll drop you a PM with his phone number.
I'd say that whilst most of the installation is pretty straightforward, and help is available for the tricky bits, it's probably not something to tackle as your first automotive "project".
Kevin
Just to put it into context i bought the lot from Jeremy, it cost me £705 and that was for the 70l tank, factor into this certification (between £50 and £100 depends on who does it) and you are still quids in.
the kit comes with the LPGA guidlines, if these are followed then you really cant go wrong, for me the scariest bit was drilling the rear bumper.
In addition i have a spare inlet manifold that i am happy to donate to someone in order to drill out for the nozzels, this means that you just then swap your old one for this one and that can then be passed on to someone else to do the same (thus reducing time)
It's not something i would recommend as a first project to try on your own, but the mounting of the vapouriser, tank, ecu and injectors could be done by anyone who is confident with a hammer and tools :y
I saw an install the other day and the owner had put hinges on the back bottom of the number plate and the filler was behind. You wouldn't know it was there :y
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i'm very interested in this too, although think i'm a bit out of the way?
Also, are the kits only for big tanks? As i'd prefer to replace the spare with a donut tank in my saloon - need all the boot space i got!
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The kits I'm referring to are the front end - I.E. excluding the tank so you are free to choose the tank and he is aware of that.
Kevin
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Pete, your contact in Wales can do the whole job for about £1,000 including certification and a 2 year warranty?
For the extra £200, which is less than 4 tanks of petrol, this sounds like a very good price. Are you still going to go down this route? If so, I would be very interested to find out how it goes. We are just too far from civilisation for me to attempt a diy without plenty of help.
Keep us posted on how you go.
Martin :y
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Pete, your contact in Wales can do the whole job for about £1,000 including certification and a 2 year warranty?
For the extra £200, which is less than 4 tanks of petrol, this sounds like a very good price. Are you still going to go down this route? If so, I would be very interested to find out how it goes. We are just too far from civilisation for me to attempt a diy without plenty of help.
Keep us posted on how you go.
Martin :y
Hi Martin
I hope to get mine converted as soon as I replace my dis pack, plug leads and plugs so hopefully before Christmas :y
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Pete, your contact in Wales can do the whole job for about £1,000 including certification and a 2 year warranty?
For the extra £200, which is less than 4 tanks of petrol, this sounds like a very good price. Are you still going to go down this route? If so, I would be very interested to find out how it goes. We are just too far from civilisation for me to attempt a diy without plenty of help.
Keep us posted on how you go.
Martin :y
Hi Martin
I hope to get mine converted as soon as I replace my dis pack, plug leads and plugs so hopefully before Christmas :y
For a grand Pete, it would be worth venturing in to sheep country. The savings on the way home would easily cover the Severn Bridge toll. I'm guessing that the price he gave you was for the V6, it may be even less for the 4 pot.
I'm sure you'll let us know how it all goes.
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i'm very interested in this too, although think i'm a bit out of the way?
Also, are the kits only for big tanks? As i'd prefer to replace the spare with a donut tank in my saloon - need all the boot space i got!
It would appear that the tanks that fit that area are quite small. Also, remember you will not be able to change any bulbs in the light cluster without removing the tank.
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i didn't know that about the lamps. what a pain! Guess one option is to replace them all when the tank goes in. or modify the light cluster to remove from the outside!?
As for the small size of a donut, has anyone knowledge about having dual tanks? ie a donut for around town (to maximize boot space for tools etc), and a bigger tank, that lives in the garage, to connect together when going on a long haul!?
surprising it may sound but i tend to have a fuller car on short journeys than long! all i need is a cd and a bag of eclairs then.... :P
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It would appear that the tanks that fit that area are quite small. Also, remember you will not be able to change any bulbs in the light cluster without removing the tank.
You'll be limited to 60L, Maybe a little more. I intend to see what I can fit in this area as I'd rather not lose any boot space. However, it'll be a more challenging install in other respects, because the exhaust back box is right underneath this area and LPG pipes must not be routed close to exhausts (without shielding).
Kevin
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It would appear that the tanks that fit that area are quite small. Also, remember you will not be able to change any bulbs in the light cluster without removing the tank.
You'll be limited to 60L, Maybe a little more. I intend to see what I can fit in this area as I'd rather not lose any boot space. However, it'll be a more challenging install in other respects, because the exhaust back box is right underneath this area and LPG pipes must not be routed close to exhausts (without shielding).
Kevin
That would be my preferred option...
What do breakdown people say about no spare wheel?
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Cylinder tanks do not take up as much room as you would think.
70l tank, tool box, cool box, 5 chairs, 2 mats, buckets spades ect
All in the boot
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Cylinder tanks do not take up as much room as you would think.
70l tank, tool box, cool box, 5 chairs, 2 mats, buckets spades ect
All in the boot
Tent, camping beds, bedding, 2 tables, few chairs, fires, stove, clothes, golf clubs, lighting etc will get in way of tank...
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Have to say that I would much prefer a cylinder type tank. I don't think that too much space would be lost to be honest certainly not enough for me to worry about as my boot is empty most of the time (apart from a tool box of course).
The added range of a cylinder tank is what is important to me.
All depends on your needs really.
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yeah but they do stop skis, stands, planks, sheets of plasterboard etc etc going through the bulhkead!
a 60l donut sounds just dandy actually. carrying a can of foam to squirt into a tyre in case of puncture.... and get a tow if it's anything worse. the rac owe me a few rides! :)
I'm interested to see how you get on Kevin! unless you bring the pipework through the boot under the parcel shelf i guess shielding will be a neccesity!
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Cylinder tanks do not take up as much room as you would think.
70l tank, tool box, cool box, 5 chairs, 2 mats, buckets spades ect
All in the boot
Tent, camping beds, bedding, 2 tables, few chairs, fires, stove, clothes, golf clubs, lighting etc will get in way of tank...
Dump the saddo sticks then ;D ;D
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yeah but they do stop skis, stands, planks, sheets of plasterboard etc etc going through the bulhkead!
a 60l donut sounds just dandy actually. carrying a can of foam to squirt into a tyre in case of puncture.... and get a tow if it's anything worse. the rac owe me a few rides! :)
I'm interested to see how you get on Kevin! unless you bring the pipework through the boot under the parcel shelf i guess shielding will be a neccesity!
pass, pass, no, stick on roof.
I can still get things through there but I'd rather use a roof rack for messy stuff
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don't think she'd like it if i put her on the roof :o
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As for the small size of a donut, has anyone knowledge about having dual tanks? ie a donut for around town (to maximize boot space for tools etc), and a bigger tank, that lives in the garage, to connect together when going on a long haul!?
Whilst you can have dual tanks with no problem, they both have to be permanently installed.
unless you bring the pipework through the boot under the parcel shelf i guess shielding will be a neccesity!
The pipework has to run downwards from the tank to the exit from the vehicle interior as gas is heavier than air and there has to be a mechanism for leaking gas to vent to the outside. Down behind the rear boot trim panel, through the skin behind the rear bumper, across the rear of the car and up the driver's side with the petrol lines is the only way I can think of.
I'd just like to keep the facility to fold the seats down for long loads. :-/
I guess a smaller cylinder like James' one would be OK. It doesn't cover the whole aperture behind the rear seats :-/ Certainly simpler to fit.
Kevin
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What do breakdown people say about no spare wheel?
I've been through this with kit cars. Basically, if your car is designed to carry a spare and you don't have one, you're in trouble.
You could argue that, after the LPG conversion, your car is not. My feeling is that the spare will be chucked in the boot anyway, except for the occasions when I need every inch of boot space.
Kevin
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i have a 70l tank in the boot and am still able to use the hatch for wood, planks and i would imagine skis.
The bigger bits have always gone on the roof as a matter of course.
In the past i had a sub enclosure with 2x12'' speakers and that took up more space than the tank does
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Problem...lack of boot space.
Solution...Roof box for when you need the extra space :y
Easy. DAMN i'm good... (http://forums.teamphoenixrising.net/images/smilies/trophy.gif)
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Pete, your contact in Wales can do the whole job for about £1,000 including certification and a 2 year warranty?
For the extra £200, which is less than 4 tanks of petrol, this sounds like a very good price. Are you still going to go down this route? If so, I would be very interested to find out how it goes. We are just too far from civilisation for me to attempt a diy without plenty of help.
Keep us posted on how you go.
Martin :y
Hi Martin
I hope to get mine converted as soon as I replace my dis pack, plug leads and plugs so hopefully before Christmas :y
I am also watching this with great interest .. if EP is happy with his installation then thats the way i'm going to go .. the DIY route is just too scary for me .. :(
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when i had my spare wheel tank installed,i ran the pipes out of the n/s wing under the bumper line and around the rear of the car and then down the o/s of the car.no shielding required :)
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you can change the rear cluster bulbs by removing the light unit complete, fiddly but do-able
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What do breakdown people say about no spare wheel?
I've been through this with kit cars. Basically, if your car is designed to carry a spare and you don't have one, you're in trouble.
You could argue that, after the LPG conversion, your car is not. My feeling is that the spare will be chucked in the boot anyway, except for the occasions when I need every inch of boot space.
Kevin
I had a puncture in the Veccy once and i wasnt carrying a spare.....RAC did ask why i didnt have a spare.....but were fine about it once i explained there was a LPG tank where the spare should be.....and after a wait.. a low loader turned up to take me to a tyre fitters :y
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What do breakdown people say about no spare wheel?
I've been through this with kit cars. Basically, if your car is designed to carry a spare and you don't have one, you're in trouble.
You could argue that, after the LPG conversion, your car is not. My feeling is that the spare will be chucked in the boot anyway, except for the occasions when I need every inch of boot space.
Kevin
I had a puncture in the Veccy once and i wasnt carrying a spare.....RAC did ask why i didnt have a spare.....but were fine about it once i explained there was a LPG tank where the spare should be.....and after a wait.. a low loader turned up to take me to a tyre fitters :y
Same here, when I had a blow out, in the Veccy :y
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When is the 'bulk' purchase taking place? If it's say the end of January then I could be tempted.....
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I need to speak to the guy and find out what the score is. I am not sure whether he expects the whole lot in one order or whether it's a case of "mention OOF when you order and get a discount".
My preference would be to get things moving quite soon but I'm sure we can accommodate everyone, perhaps by ordering in two "phases" if individual orders are not possible.
Kevin
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I'm interested in converting, but I have most of the bits already, so not really in the market for bits from this chap. Its a shame you can't modify the gas contents sensor on a horizontal toroidal tank to use it vertically. A new Vert tank is about £400, a 2nd hand horiz tank about £50.
Ken
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This guy was talking about 300 for a vert. toridal tank rear end kit so presumably including the valve. I'll ask the question.
Kevin
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How much would a front end kit be for a V8 out of curiosity ::) Presumably there is very little difference other than the extra 2 injectors and some additions to the loom. Assuming of course the ECU can handle 8 injectors.
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How much would a front end kit be for a V8 out of curiosity ::) Presumably there is very little difference other than the extra 2 injectors and some additions to the loom. Assuming of course the ECU can handle 8 injectors.
Usually just two new injectors
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How much would a front end kit be for a V8 out of curiosity ::) Presumably there is very little difference other than the extra 2 injectors and some additions to the loom. Assuming of course the ECU can handle 8 injectors.
The ECU can indeed handle 8 injectors. I believe the vapouriser will handle up to 300 BHP so you ought to be OK there so yes, it is in theory just a matter of injector valves and a loom with the extra injector wiring. I believe I have seen him selling 8 cylinder kits on EBay.
There's one from him here but it looks like a mixer:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220001798487
Kevin
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Hi,
I'd be interested in popping along to the LPG party. I'd be able to lend a hand and make lots of tea!
I could also get my dad to knock uo a few bespoke injector brackets as shown in the pic. He would want his palms crossing with silver though!
PM me if anyone is interested.
Cheers
M
(http://s164763218.websitehome.co.uk/omega/both_mounted.JPG)
(http://s164763218.websitehome.co.uk/omega/injectors2)
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Kevin - these injectors look frightiningly familiar, albeit a different colour!
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Kevin - these injectors look frightiningly familiar, albeit a different colour!
i thought that when i saw them.
those brackets do look the business
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Kevin - these injectors look frightiningly familiar, albeit a different colour!
Yep. Same style. Different colour of coil makes me think they might be a different impedance but certainly mechanically identical.
OK. From what I can see we have 4 of us ready to go ahead now - Paulus, x25xe, Jim and myself.
Have I missed anyone?
I'm going to give the guy a call today and see how he wants to play it. I'm hoping he's happy for us to contact him and pay individually but failing that I guess we'll have to have a whip round.
Kevin
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I guess we'll have to have a whip round.
Kevin
Fine, fine - if you all want to send me your £500's - I'll leave the country perform the transaction for you ::) ;D
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OI!!! JAMES!!!! NOOO!!!!!!
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It's all gone quiet. :-X
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It's all gone quiet.
Appologies for the silence. I've spoken to Jeremy today and explained the current situation. I'm waiting on him to get hold of some vertical toroidal tanks at the moment. I explained that we weren't all 100% ready to proceed at the moment but that a core of us are chomping at the bit and he proposed that he'll give us some sort of OOF reference to quote to get a discount. That way we can all order individually as and when we're ready and sort out payment with Jeremy directly.
Kevin
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humm even though the 2.5 in my project car runs like a sack of spuds, should i SGI it :-/
Of course its all irrelvant really cause the its going noware fast without a new gearbox.
Since it has the crappy mixer system fully installed, how much to SGI convert?
Baring in mind, tank is all in and done, evaportor is in (though needs cleaning) guessing new ECU and injectors?
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It's all gone quiet.
Appologies for the silence. I've spoken to Jeremy today and explained the current situation. I'm waiting on him to get hold of some vertical toroidal tanks at the moment. I explained that we weren't all 100% ready to proceed at the moment but that a core of us are chomping at the bit and he proposed that he'll give us some sort of OOF reference to quote to get a discount. That way we can all order individually as and when we're ready and sort out payment with Jeremy directly.
Kevin
WOO HOO!!! Sounds like a good idea.
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humm even though the 2.5 in my project car runs like a sack of spuds, should i SGI it :-/
Of course its all irrelvant really cause the its going noware fast without a new gearbox.
Since it has the crappy mixer system fully installed, how much to SGI convert?
Baring in mind, tank is all in and done, evaportor is in (though needs cleaning) guessing new ECU and injectors?
You would get new evaporator with the SGI kit
The rear end being in will speed things up no end
Probably two days work, with two of us on the case...
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humm even though the 2.5 in my project car runs like a sack of spuds, should i SGI it :-/
Of course its all irrelvant really cause the its going noware fast without a new gearbox.
Since it has the crappy mixer system fully installed, how much to SGI convert?
Baring in mind, tank is all in and done, evaportor is in (though needs cleaning) guessing new ECU and injectors?
You would get new evaporator with the SGI kit
The rear end being in will speed things up no end
Probably two days work, with two of us on the case...
The only thing you would need woudl be a set of pipes to replace the ones that have the mixer system plumbed into it.
Would it be worth it, yes, as James has said the difficult part has been done really, fitting the front end took me 2 days on my own, with 2 people doing this that could be reduced to 1.5 days, and if you have a manfold that is predrilled and tapped with the injectors already in it then it could be down to a day
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BTW, forgot to mention, i have a inlet manifold that has not been drilled yet, FOC to someone doing a conversion and would mean being able to keep the car on the road and hopefully conversion times down.
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humm even though the 2.5 in my project car runs like a sack of spuds, should i SGI it :-/
Of course its all irrelvant really cause the its going noware fast without a new gearbox.
Since it has the crappy mixer system fully installed, how much to SGI convert?
Baring in mind, tank is all in and done, evaportor is in (though needs cleaning) guessing new ECU and injectors?
You would get new evaporator with the SGI kit
The rear end being in will speed things up no end
Probably two days work, with two of us on the case...
The only thing you would need woudl be a set of pipes to replace the ones that have the mixer system plumbed into it.
Would it be worth it, yes, as James has said the difficult part has been done really, fitting the front end took me 2 days on my own, with 2 people doing this that could be reduced to 1.5 days, and if you have a manfold that is predrilled and tapped with the injectors already in it then it could be down to a day
Already got those, used that to get them thought the MOT ;D
First things first, must get that new box on!
Then SGI it, and use it for a few months re-coup some of my costs.... ;D
How much for the LPG bits i need?
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BTW, forgot to mention, i have a inlet manifold that has not been drilled yet, FOC to someone doing a conversion and would mean being able to keep the car on the road and hopefully conversion times down.
Can I have it then???? PUUURRLEEEEEESE. I'll pay postage etc... :y
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I'm sure I've asked this before, but does anyone know if the manifolds are the same on all V6s? 2.5/2.6/3.0/3.2? I appreciate that injector flow rates will differ, but what about the basic ali casting?
Kevin
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I'm sure I've asked this before, but does anyone know if the manifolds are the same on all V6s? 2.5/2.6/3.0/3.2? I appreciate that injector flow rates will differ, but what about the basic ali casting?
Kevin
2.5 and 3.0 'appear' to be the same.
Mark DTM let me have a 3.0 one for my conversion and on face value i can see no difference
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Tunnie - About £480 for bits...