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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Rob James on 03 February 2010, 12:08:16

Title: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Rob James on 03 February 2010, 12:08:16
Hi,

A handful of times now the car has stalled, but only while it has been on ECO. Any ideas why this might be happening? I have noticed that when the fans come on to cool the engine the revs drop, so I'm wondering if these coming on occasionally causes it to stall?

Cheers,

Rob.
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: tunnie on 03 February 2010, 12:28:45
ECO just disables the compressor, could be a red herring. Do a paperclip test  :y
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Andy B on 03 February 2010, 12:36:27
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ECO just disables the compressor, could be a red herring. Do a paperclip test  :y

But it also drops the revs.  ;)
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Rob James on 03 February 2010, 12:36:39
I'll do the paper clip test when my wife gets back with the car. My thought was that as the revs are higher with the compressor running it was preventing the car from stalling.
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Andy B on 03 February 2010, 12:39:17
Quote
Hi,

A handful of times now the car has stalled, but only while it has been on ECO. Any ideas why this might be happening? I have noticed that when the fans come on to cool the engine the revs drop, so I'm wondering if these coming on occasionally causes it to stall?

Cheers,

Rob.

ECO does knock the a/c compressor off, but also drops the revs - the engine doesn't need to rev as high as there's a little less load. It could be the idle air control valve that's gummed up & not reacting fast enough. Pretty sure there's a guide to cleaning it out somewhere. Clean it & go from there.
Fans take quite a load if they run up on full speed, same as above.  :y
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Andy B on 03 February 2010, 12:39:43
Quote
I'll do the paper clip test when my wife gets back with the car. My thought was that as the revs are higher with the compressor running it was preventing the car from stalling.

Yes!  :y
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: tunnie on 03 February 2010, 12:40:25
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Quote
ECO just disables the compressor, could be a red herring. Do a paperclip test  :y

But it also drops the revs.  ;)

Did say could..... compressor drops it by about 100 rpm or so, not going to be a massive different, if ICV is being dogey would affect it in auto as well.
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Andy B on 03 February 2010, 12:43:11
Quote
......... compressor drops it by about 100 rpm or so,  ......

I've not looked for exact numbers but it's more of a difference than 100 rpm IIRC tick over on ECO is around 450-500 and in AUTO is more like 750/800 rpm
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: tunnie on 03 February 2010, 12:46:53
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......... compressor drops it by about 100 rpm or so,  ......

I've not looked for exact numbers but it's more of a difference than 100 rpm IIRC tick over on ECO is around 450-500 and in AUTO is more like 750/800 rpm

Must be more on V6, never noiced that much of a difference on mine  :-/ Its more noise than anything else, under ECO its much quieter on idle, i have to watch the rev dial very closely to see it even move  :-/
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Andy B on 03 February 2010, 12:50:58
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Quote
Quote
......... compressor drops it by about 100 rpm or so,  ......

I've not looked for exact numbers but it's more of a difference than 100 rpm IIRC tick over on ECO is around 450-500 and in AUTO is more like 750/800 rpm

Must be more on V6, never noiced that much of a difference on mine  :-/ Its more noise than anything else, under ECO its much quieter on idle, i have to watch the rev dial very closely to see it even move  :-/

Quite a noticable drop in revs & noise when climate is OFF or on ECO compared to AUTO. Years ago I sat waiting at the lights and my daughter decided to 'play' & turn the climate OFF. Her face was a picture as for a moment she thought she'd broken something ;D .... till I laughed at her cos I kinda knew what she was thinking!  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: tunnie on 03 February 2010, 12:56:59
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Quote
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......... compressor drops it by about 100 rpm or so,  ......

I've not looked for exact numbers but it's more of a difference than 100 rpm IIRC tick over on ECO is around 450-500 and in AUTO is more like 750/800 rpm

Must be more on V6, never noiced that much of a difference on mine  :-/ Its more noise than anything else, under ECO its much quieter on idle, i have to watch the rev dial very closely to see it even move  :-/

Quite a noticable drop in revs & noise when climate is OFF or on ECO compared to AUTO. Years ago I sat waiting at the lights and my daughter decided to 'play' & turn the climate OFF. Her face was a picture as for a moment she thought she'd broken something ;D .... till I laughed at her cos I kinda knew what she was thinking!  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

Once in traffic, my hazzard warning lights came on. I blamed mother tunnie, but she said she did not do it. Couple of days later taking her to the shops she tried to turn on the heated seat, but also turned the hazzards on  ::)
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: mathewst on 03 February 2010, 13:01:03
A little advice.
ECO doesn't drop the revs but the climate increases them cause the compressor is turned on.
I know it sounds the same but it isn't.
It seems the minimum revs are the problem here (ICV probably).
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: mathewst on 03 February 2010, 13:03:25
Also one other possible problem.
Blocked injectors if the car did too many miles and simply not enough fuel is reaching into the engine or the spray pattern is not good so the car is stalling at low revs
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Andy B on 03 February 2010, 13:20:24
Quote
A little advice.
ECO doesn't drop the revs but the climate increases them cause the compressor is turned on.
I know it sounds the same but it isn't.
 ........

In practice it's the same thing!  :-?  :-?
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: mathewst on 03 February 2010, 13:39:26
Yep Andy but engines are designed to work normally without pushin the compressor.
Every electrical or mechanical extra gadget causes a load and increases fuel cons.
Also if it doesn't work normally without aircon definitelly emissions will be amess
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Rob James on 03 February 2010, 13:47:34
So I'll do the paper clip test, and assuming all is ok then I'll clean the ICV. I've found the guide for the X20XEV, can anyone tell me what is different for the 3.0. It mentions giving an oil - what oil should I use? Also a gasket - an ideas on the part number?

You may have guessed I'm new at doing my own work to a car, but I can normally follow instructions. I've managed to replace the HBV and do the cam cover gaskets using the excellent guides on this site. The cam cover gaskets were a challenge though!
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Andy B on 03 February 2010, 13:52:40
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So I'll do the paper clip test, and assuming all is ok then I'll clean the ICV. I've found the guide for the X20XEV, can anyone tell me what is different for the 3.0. It mentions giving an oil - what oil should I use? Also a gasket - an ideas on the part number?

You may have guessed I'm new at doing my own work to a car, but I can normally follow instructions. I've managed to replace the HBV and do the cam cover gaskets using the excellent guides on this site. The cam cover gaskets were a challenge though!

A light machine oil such as 3 in 1
I've never seen a 2.0's ICV but a V6 ICV doesn't require a gasket, it's Jubilee clipped to the hoseand a push-in fit on tye plenum  :y
Fill it with carb cleaner while covering the inlet & out with your finger & thumb, shake it vigourously and repeat till the cleaner comes out clean  :y  :y  :y
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Rob James on 03 February 2010, 16:03:52
Ok. I've done the paper clip test. It has a fault code of 31, however the sensor was only changed recently and it could be the fault code wasn't cleared. I'm driving down to London and back tomorrow so I'll see if I make it!

--edit--
Just spoken to the garage that did the work and they think they would have cleared the fault code.
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: tunnie on 03 February 2010, 16:06:37
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Ok. I've done the paper clip test. It has a fault code of 31, however the sensor was only changed recently and it could be the fault code wasn't cleared. I'm driving down to London and back tomorrow so I'll see if I make it!

31 is normal with the engine off  :y
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Rob James on 03 February 2010, 16:09:37
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Ok. I've done the paper clip test. It has a fault code of 31, however the sensor was only changed recently and it could be the fault code wasn't cleared. I'm driving down to London and back tomorrow so I'll see if I make it!

31 is normal with the engine off  :y


That would explain it then. So if I stick the paper clip in and then start the engine it should be clear (and just give me the 12 sequence)?
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: tunnie on 03 February 2010, 16:14:00
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Quote
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Ok. I've done the paper clip test. It has a fault code of 31, however the sensor was only changed recently and it could be the fault code wasn't cleared. I'm driving down to London and back tomorrow so I'll see if I make it!

31 is normal with the engine off  :y


That would explain it then. So if I stick the paper clip in and then start the engine it should be clear (and just give me the 12 sequence)?

Err never done it myself, should do. (but no need to)

You mention a sensor being changed, what was this? Crank? ICV?
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Rob James on 03 February 2010, 16:17:19
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Quote
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Ok. I've done the paper clip test. It has a fault code of 31, however the sensor was only changed recently and it could be the fault code wasn't cleared. I'm driving down to London and back tomorrow so I'll see if I make it!

31 is normal with the engine off  :y


That would explain it then. So if I stick the paper clip in and then start the engine it should be clear (and just give me the 12 sequence)?

Err never done it myself, should do. (but no need to)

You mention a sensor being changed, what was this? Crank? ICV?

Crank
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: tunnie on 03 February 2010, 16:21:13
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Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Ok. I've done the paper clip test. It has a fault code of 31, however the sensor was only changed recently and it could be the fault code wasn't cleared. I'm driving down to London and back tomorrow so I'll see if I make it!

31 is normal with the engine off  :y


That would explain it then. So if I stick the paper clip in and then start the engine it should be clear (and just give me the 12 sequence)?

Err never done it myself, should do. (but no need to)

You mention a sensor being changed, what was this? Crank? ICV?

Crank

Has it stalled since that was replaced?
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Rob James on 03 February 2010, 16:22:57
had  it replaced a few months ago. It has just started to stall occasionally over the last few days. Once on Sat, and once today (with 400 miles between)
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: tunnie on 03 February 2010, 16:23:47
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had  it replaced a few months ago. It has just started to stall occasionally over the last few days. Once on Sat, and once today (with 400 miles between)

Geniune Sensor? - If not pattern ones have been known to fail quickly  :'(

Give the ICV a good clean as well
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Rob James on 03 February 2010, 16:27:20
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had  it replaced a few months ago. It has just started to stall occasionally over the last few days. Once on Sat, and once today (with 400 miles between)

Geniune Sensor? - If not pattern ones have been known to fail quickly  :'(

Give the ICV a good clean as well

Rang the garage earlier to check about clearing the fault, and they said they fitted a Bosch one. Just hope I don't break down tomorrow on my way down to London (as an aside, I checked the price of the train and it was going to be £165, will save money even with a 3.0 Omega!).
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Rob James on 08 February 2010, 19:24:37
I've cleaned the ICV now. However it is still stalling. On another thread there is a post which says that the valve should be slightly open in its default position.

I've taken out the valve and taken a look. It would seem that the default position for mine is that it is open too far - i.e. it has gone past fully closed and has left a small gap at the other side. Is this correct?

Also note, I'm still only getting the car to stall when on ECO.

Thanks - Rob.
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Lazydocker on 08 February 2010, 19:29:41
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I've cleaned the ICV now. However it is still stalling. On another thread there is a post which says that the valve should be slightly open in its default position.

I've taken out the valve and taken a look. It would seem that the default position for mine is that it is open too far - i.e. it has gone past fully closed and has left a small gap at the other side. Is this correct?

Also note, I'm still only getting the car to stall when on ECO.

Thanks - Rob.

That's correct :y :y

It would be worth checking the throttle bodies are clean, although I'm not saying that is at fault. Other thing worth checking for is an air leak
Title: Re: Stalling when on ECO
Post by: Rob James on 08 February 2010, 19:35:27
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That's correct :y :y

It would be worth checking the throttle bodies are clean, although I'm not saying that is at fault. Other thing worth checking for is an air leak

When I put the ICV back in I sqeezed the pipe to check that there wasn't a leak around the value and the engine struggled to keep going. What else should I do to check for an air leak?

How do I clean the throttle bodies - I'm afraid I don't even know what they are yet!