Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: orion on 13 March 2010, 22:45:32

Title: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: orion on 13 March 2010, 22:45:32
Hi orion from essex i need to know if there is anything i can do to up grade my 2.5 v6 to get more power and speed perhaps turbos or bigger engine 3ltr or v8 if this is possible and turn gearbox into paddle shift is any of this possible and how much aggrovation and cost any help would be appreciated
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: biggriffin on 13 March 2010, 22:46:42
anything is possable if you have lots of cash. :)
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: guncharmer on 13 March 2010, 22:48:20
Methinks you ought to be buying a different car!
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: biggriffin on 13 March 2010, 22:51:53
think its called a hsv ;D
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: Entwood on 13 March 2010, 22:52:34
I suppose an LS2 with an electronic gearbox and paddle shift is doable ... followed by a rear axle change, to handle the power, brake change so you can stop, suspension change so it handles correctly, wheel change to absorb the power ....

Whats left ....?? aaaah  its an Omega Shell  :)

and a very very large bill .... 

Oh .. and you probably won't get insurance for it so track use only ...  :)
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: biggriffin on 13 March 2010, 22:55:00
yup that be an HSV thenhttp://www.hsv.com.au/hsv/landing/  :y
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: Kevin Wood on 13 March 2010, 23:47:38
3 litre cams are a useful upgrade for a 2.5. Beyond that a swap to a 3 litre engine is probably the most sensible upgrade and then things get expensive and/or quite involved as said.

Welcome to the forum. :y

Kevin
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: TheBoy on 14 March 2010, 09:21:06
Yeah, 3l cams in the 2.5 heads. Still won't beat a 3.0 though, so engine swap probably more effective.

A V8 Omega was nearly released, so is possible, but it is going to cost.

A member here, Omegatoy, did stick in a Lotus Carlton 3.6 into his 2.0l Omega, and by all accounts it went rather well ;D
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 March 2010, 09:21:30
imho this will give some idea..

http://www.v6calibra.net/tuning/v6_calibra_tuning.htm
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: Martin_1962 on 14 March 2010, 09:44:57
Quote
imho this will give some idea..

http://www.v6calibra.net/tuning/v6_calibra_tuning.htm


A lot more restrictive than the Omega on inlet and exhaust
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 March 2010, 11:22:41
Quote
Quote
imho this will give some idea..

http://www.v6calibra.net/tuning/v6_calibra_tuning.htm


A lot more restrictive than the Omega on inlet and exhaust

yep.. but mods are same..
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: 2woody on 15 March 2010, 12:52:53
I recently took 3.0 cams out of my 2.6 and gained 4 horsepower.

thinking standard fueling not up to changed requirements of 2.5 with bigger cams
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: SteveT528 on 15 March 2010, 13:10:09
as said, anything is possible if you have the cash. plus if you like the omega why not! fit a 3.0 v6 engine, and while its out port/polish the heads, fit custom manifolds or use the 3.2 manifolds at least , a decent exhaust, and if you have the money , fit an external oil cooler with a stat controlled mocal sandwich plate to sort cooling, then go throttle bodies.

there is loads you can do but it costs big money. 1.6 solid lifters, cams , steel rods/arp rod bolts.  c20let pistons fit if you want to go for loads of power eg: supercharger/turbo

the crankshaft and block start getting weak with big power though but this can be solved!

probably cheaper to fit an ls2  :)
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: Kevin Wood on 15 March 2010, 13:12:54
Quote
I recently took 3.0 cams out of my 2.6 and gained 4 horsepower.

thinking standard fueling not up to changed requirements of 2.5 with bigger cams

Interesting...

I understood the fuel system is the same between 2.6 and 3.2  - same fuel pressure and injector flow rate so it should be up to delivering the same fuel.

2.5 and 3.0 apparently have the same map in the ECU, not sure if that holds for 2.6/3.2 though. :-/

I don't suppose you have before & after dyno plots? Might give some clues as to what was going on?

Kevin
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: Kevin Wood on 15 March 2010, 13:20:31
Quote
fit an external oil cooler with a stat controlled mocal sandwich plate to sort cooling

I wouldn't bother with this, personally, unless planning to fit coolant unions to the cooler cover plate for extra coolant flow to the rear cylinders. (apparently advisable above 250 BHP)

I doubt the oil cooler is going to dump a huge amount of heat into the coolant in the overall scheme of things, fitting of an external oil cooler is going to be difficult without disturbing the air flow into the main rad. anyway, so cheaper and easier just to ensure adequate radiator capacity. IMHO, of course. :y

Kevin
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: 2woody on 15 March 2010, 13:38:32
Quote
Quote
I recently took 3.0 cams out of my 2.6 and gained 4 horsepower.

thinking standard fueling not up to changed requirements of 2.5 with bigger cams

Interesting...

I understood the fuel system is the same between 2.6 and 3.2  - same fuel pressure and injector flow rate so it should be up to delivering the same fuel.

2.5 and 3.0 apparently have the same map in the ECU, not sure if that holds for 2.6/3.2 though. :-/

I don't suppose you have before & after dyno plots? Might give some clues as to what was going on?

Kevin

I think it's more the "shape" of the fuel map, rather than any amounts or anything like that.

I could just about see the 2.5 / 3.0 argument, whereas the higher fuel requirement is going to be a higher requirement over the whole engine speed range, but substituting 3.0 cams will extend the fuelling disproportionately higher up.

from memory, the Vectra 2.5 (small cams) and 2.5 (big cams) had different ECUs.

Unfortunately, I didn't get dyno plots - it was done for me as a favour - I didn't really require any info - was just trying to see how many extra ponies 3.0 cams were worth in an atherwise stock engine. (it was done at a track as part of a race series' test day)

sample engine builds on the way   :y
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: SteveT528 on 15 March 2010, 13:39:25
Quote
I doubt the oil cooler is going to dump a huge amount of heat into the coolant in the overall scheme of things, fitting of an external oil cooler is going to be difficult without disturbing the air flow into the main rad. anyway, so cheaper and easier just to ensure adequate radiator capacity.

I do like peoples views on this and everyone is entitled to one, and everyone has a valid point some way or another,but i can honestly say fitting an external oil cooler makes a massive difference and anyone that says it dont are wrong or havnt tried, on a standard engine it is pointless and may even cause more wear on the engine over time! on a modified engine its worth while, these x30xe engines get VERY HOT while racing or even driving hard.  having unions fitted to the original oil cooler plate is a very good mod that ive done before and also unions fitted to the rear of each head , mainly the pass side head as ive seen melted pistons on the rear!  if modifing an x30xe engine the aircon will have to be removed! this blocks airflow to the rad more than a 13 row oil cooler will ever do. so thats not an issue. as always this is my opinion and experience of tuning this engine.
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: Kevin Wood on 15 March 2010, 14:55:36
Quote
I do like peoples views on this and everyone is entitled to one, and everyone has a valid point some way or another,but i can honestly say fitting an external oil cooler makes a massive difference and anyone that says it dont are wrong or havnt tried, on a standard engine it is pointless and may even cause more wear on the engine over time! on a modified engine its worth while, these x30xe engines get VERY HOT while racing or even driving hard.  having unions fitted to the original oil cooler plate is a very good mod that ive done before and also unions fitted to the rear of each head , mainly the pass side head as ive seen melted pistons on the rear!  if modifing an x30xe engine the aircon will have to be removed! this blocks airflow to the rad more than a 13 row oil cooler will ever do. so thats not an issue. as always this is my opinion and experience of tuning this engine.


Fair comments, and obviously if the purpose is to enhance coolant flow around the rear cylinders as above than it's a good step to take. :y

I was just making the point that, unless the engine has been tuned far enough, and gets driven hard enough, that the cooling mods are required, it's a pointless exercise. Oil to water heat exchangers such as the standard cooler have an important advantage that they won't overcool the oil, and  will in some instances pre-heat it, and that no potentially unreliable oil stat and associated flexible hoses, etc. are required.

Anyway, I'm sure I'm preaching to the converted. ;)

Kevin
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: Kevin Wood on 15 March 2010, 15:00:37
Quote
I think it's more the "shape" of the fuel map, rather than any amounts or anything like that.

I could just about see the 2.5 / 3.0 argument, whereas the higher fuel requirement is going to be a higher requirement over the whole engine speed range, but substituting 3.0 cams will extend the fuelling disproportionately higher up.

from memory, the Vectra 2.5 (small cams) and 2.5 (big cams) had different ECUs.

Unfortunately, I didn't get dyno plots - it was done for me as a favour - I didn't really require any info - was just trying to see how many extra ponies 3.0 cams were worth in an atherwise stock engine. (it was done at a track as part of a race series' test day)

sample engine builds on the way   :y

This is where you need to get out your wideband Lambda sensor and see what's going on. :y

I know other members have claimed gains from this mod on a 2.6. Not sure if any have plots to hand or have even been proven on the rollers.

Gut feeling is that the ECU is probably basing the fuel requirement 100% on the MAF reading at the top of the rev range so it should cope with a little extra power. :-/

Kevin
Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: Phil on 15 March 2010, 16:56:05
Quote

from memory, the Vectra 2.5 (small cams) and 2.5 (big cams) had different ECUs.




If you are refering to the Vectra ST200 (197bhp) and the standard GSi (170bhp iirc) then no, they had exactly the same ECU and map the ONLY change to the engine was half the cams from and X30XE engine, can't remember if it was inlet or exhaust but it was only one pair not both.

Title: Re: power upgrade and engine change
Post by: Martin_1962 on 15 March 2010, 18:15:23
Quote
I recently took 3.0 cams out of my 2.6 and gained 4 horsepower.

thinking standard fueling not up to changed requirements of 2.5 with bigger cams


Strange - mine is quicker