Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: SR-71 Blackbird on 26 March 2010, 20:14:15
-
Hi guys
i am going to do an oil change soon and i was wondering what your general thoughts were about cheap flushing oils just to run for a few minutes whilst sitting still and also your views on those ingredients that you can add to the oil just before a change such as wyns etc, its the 2.5td thanks
-
DON'T DO IT! Oil flushes strip away a lot of the protection the engine has built up, best way is to stick to the short oil changes the TD's need. I do an oil and filter change every 3k max! No need to add snake oil ;)
-
I just try and leave mine as long as possible to drain out when doing an oil change.
It changes back to black horrid shitey stuff soon after you've changed it anyway on the TD.
Mick ;)
-
my take on flushing oils
good for the bottom end / cr*p for the top end ( the cr*p can bung up the small oilways ) :(
once it is in the engine, it could take a couple of changes too remove ALL the stuff and you don't want any of the detergent in there after a oil change :(
if the engine has been abused ( oil wise ) best too put it on 1000 mile oil changes for a while and give it some nice long, steady runs ( too get the oil hot ) :y
if its rattleing at the top, a bottle off wyns valve / lifter treatment at the same time as the oil changes will help :y
-
Hmm slightly different opinion here!!
no 1 its a turbo diesel!!
which has oil squirters in the crank to cool the pistons, these block up if oil changes are neglected!! so do it!!use a good quality flush additive such as forte or similar,this is simply added to the existing oil and you just run for 30 mins or so, then drain replac filter and refill,i use a trade only flush, which is damn good and it sorted out the boys overheating probs but it was too late to save the headgasket!!personally i flush mine whenever i think t needs doing!!
-
all good comments guys keep them coming, ive got the log book and it looks like shes been very well cared for with lots of oil changes etc, my question is this, is there anyway of telling if the engine is clean inside, it looks nice and clean under the cap but of course i cant see much, its my first diesel and i was kinda annoyed that the oil went black immediately after it changed it last time,
-
I just try and leave mine as long as possible to drain out when doing an oil change.
It changes back to black horrid shitey stuff soon after you've changed it anyway on the TD.
Mick ;)
At the end of the day it's your choice.
My present TD has been very well cared-for all it's life.
It gets an engine oil/filter-change every 2500 miles religiously, using only GM 10/40 oil, which does the biz!
;)
Charge-air pipe and EGR valve gets cleaned at the same time too.
:y
-
if it was a petrol i would say defo no, and just do quick (500 mile) changes with GM 10/40, but i would be tempted to do it with the TD, as oil health is so critical on them.
-
Dont know about diesel engine but for my cars I do an oil and filter change and use 10w50 oil drive 300 / 400 miles and then another oil and filter change and use 10w40.
I,ve never had any problems and it gets the insides nice and clean.
-
Seems kinda 50/50 to me as to whether to do it or not, would like some more tractor owners to comment on their experiences, suppose a few will turn up soon, they are slower then the petrol models after all ;D
-
Seems kinda 50/50 to me as to whether to do it or not, would like some more tractor owners to comment on their experiences, suppose a few will turn up soon, they are slower then the petrol models after all ;D
lolol yep but they go further on the same amount of fuel, ;D
-
A friend of mine rides a trials bike. He has been advised by other trials riders to drain the oil from his bike, then fill with the correct amount of DIESEL fuel run for a few minutes making sure not to rev/load the engine.
When he told me about this I was very sceptical.
Oh yes engine has to be hot through out the operation
What do think ?
-
Mine will be getting an oil change in the next few days.
I will give Omegatoys method a try.
That's add an oil flush to the existing oil, run then drain.
Forte's recommended? :y
Mick ;)
-
Mine will be getting an oil change in the next few days.
I will give Omegatoys method a try.
That's add an oil flush to the existing oil, run then drain.
Forte's recommended? :y
Mick ;)
Used it meself on the previous tractor Mick.
Personally, I'm just sticking with the regular 2.5k oil-change regime.
:y
-
Personally I add STP engine flush to a hot engine & run for fifteen minutes before draining oil. I do this every 4k miles. Car has covered 160k miles now & engine sounds fine - touch wood!
-
A friend of mine rides a trials bike. He has been advised by other trials riders to drain the oil from his bike, then fill with the correct amount of DIESEL fuel run for a few minutes making sure not to rev/load the engine.
When he told me about this I was very sceptical.
Oh yes engine has to be hot through out the operation
What do think ?
used to do that on me rover v8 every other oil change, it ran to 280k befor i sold it, never had a problem with oil pressure or cam wear through blocked oilways, its an old trick as diesel is detergent so ceans the internals!!
-
A friend of mine rides a trials bike. He has been advised by other trials riders to drain the oil from his bike, then fill with the correct amount of DIESEL fuel run for a few minutes making sure not to rev/load the engine.
When he told me about this I was very sceptical.
Oh yes engine has to be hot through out the operation
What do think ?
DANGER If you want to blow yourself and the car up then you can try it. But diesel burns under Presure so if you put that amount in your engine and start it I would not like to be in the near.
there is a lot of presure in the engine when running so dont do it.
-
....
DANGER If you want to blow yourself and the car up then you can try it. But diesel burns under Presure so if you put that amount in your engine and start it I would not like to be in the near.
there is a lot of presure in the engine when running so dont do it.
You'll need more than crank case pressure to ignite diesel. :-?
-
I used engine flush in an old Astra engine I swapped over. The engine was pretty manky so I figured: what's to lose? Never again. Stripped everything out but it was an old engine and half of what it stripped out was the only thing holding the compression up. Smoked afterwards and was never the same.
If it has had regular oil changes then I'd just do a few extra changes at 1k intervals and leave it at that.
-
Oh, and I've heard the diesel trick performed with parafin too. However, the guy's a tinkerer and has lost more than his fair share of engines. Based on his track record alone I'd give that one a miss.
-
This is interesting.....as an engineer of some 30 years experience, my mentors always told me that on an engine with little or no service history, add flush to the oil and run for a MAX of 10 miles, then drain the oil when hot, leaving the car to drain for at least an hour, then change filter and refil with quality oil. the next oil change should then be HALF the distance recommended, and then as service shedule thereafter, for V6 petrol engines no more than 6k, and diesel engines 4k between oil changes.
By the way, this is advice from VX luton..............
Comments please??
-
Well I'm no mechanic so you could be right. I'm just going off my one experience - hardly a decent sample size for any statisticians out there.
I'd guess it depends on the mileage though. I got the engine off the scrappy and it was so coked up you wouldn't believe. I was scooping crud out with my fingers at one point.
Maybe engines that have done lower mileages are still pretty tight so the flush doesn't have such a big effect?
-
I run my oil changes far too long and notice a drastic performance increase after the oil change...
In my opinion, after the change, let your engine run on tickover for a while, with no load and let the oil flow its circuit, it will catch its own crap...
The concept of oil flush has always concerned me, hence never running it...
-
bit long .. but the whole article is worth a read IMHO
http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html
Flushing oils
These are special compound oils that are very, very thin. They almost have the consistency of tap water when cold as well as hot. Typically they are 0W/20 oils. Don't ever drive with these oils in your engine - it won't last. (Caveat : some hybrid vehicles now require 0W20, so if you're a hybrid driver, check your owner's manual). Their purpose is for cleaning out all the gunk which builds up inside an engine. Note that Mobil1 0W40 is okay, because the '40' denotes that it's actually thick enough at temperature to work. 0W20 just doesn't get that viscous!
Do I need a flushing oil?
Unless there's something seriously wrong with your engine, like you've filled it with milk or shampoo, you really ought never to need a flushing oil. If you're transitioning from a mineral oil to a synthetic oil, likewise you probably don't need to flush the engine first.
If you do decide to do an oil flush, first drain your engine of all it's oil, but leave the old oil filter in place. Next fill it up with flushing oil and run it at a fast idle for about 20 minutes. Finally, drain all this off (and marvel at the crap that comes out with it), replace the oil filter, refill with a good synthetic oil and voila! Clean engine.
Of course, like most things nowadays, there's a condition attached when using flushing oils. In an old engine you really don't want to remove all the deposits. Some of these deposits help seal rings, lifters and even some of the flanges between the heads, covers, pan and the block, where the gaskets are thin. I have heard of engines with over 280,000km that worked fine, but when flushed it failed in a month because the blow-by past the scraper ring (now really clean) contaminated the oil and screwed the rod bearings.
Using Diesel oil for flushing
A question came up some time ago about using diesel-rated oils to flush out petrol engines. The idea was that because of the higher detergent levels in diesel engine oil, it might be a good cleaner / flusher for a non-diesel engine. Well most of the diesel oil specification oils can be used in old petrol engines for cleaning, but you want to use a low specification oil to ensure that you do not over clean your engine and lose compression for example. Generally speaking, an SAE 15W/40 diesel engine oil for about 500 miles might do the trick.
-
ok the general thinking seems to be that if the engine is already cleanish then doing a flush could cause soooo many more problems then it could have advantages. this brings me to my next question, how do i know if my engine is clean inside, bit of info on her, shes had very regular oil changes according to the log book and i got her 6700 miles ago and i changed the oil straight away when i got her and then again after another 4000ish or so. Are there any techniques or tips to find out if she is nice and clean inside? i have looked under the oil cap and it seems very nice and clean but i can only see a tiny bit og the engine and its rather large :)
thanks guys, keep em coming i really value your thoughts as ive never had a turbo diesel before
-
Heres the issue.
By flushing you dislodge all the deposits....and some of these will clogg the oil pickup strainer....so if the engine is bad, dont do it....
Modern oils also contain detergents but, they are not nearly as aggressive as the flushes and hence offer a gentle clean. As a result, the deposits are slowly removed and generally pass through the pump and get trapped by the oil filter (they are likely to be much much smaller)....hence why we recommend short oil changes for filthy engines!
As an aside, if you have blocked oil jets, no detergent will clear them......if they are slightly clogged and the spray pattern compromised then yes, it might help. the cleaning process requires the flush to be able to pass oer the dirt....in the case of a blockage, this cant happen and hence, it wont touch it! :y
-
On a TD, due to the oil jets, I'm with Omegatoy for obvious reasons - if I think its needs doing (high temp, yet cooling system perfect), I would do it.
It certainly sorted out the overheating on my old tractor (after replacing the engine cooling system)
-
What about the DTi's? I intend to change the oil every 3K for a while but just wondered on peoples thoughts on this engine.
The V6 can suffer a problem of a gummed up oil pressure relief valve if oil changes have been ignored (or the 20K change scheme was used!), this causes the pressure relief valve to not operate correctly causing an over pressure situation which will cause oil to leak past the camcover seals no matter how many times you replace them and clean the breathers. The moral of the story is to change the oil regularly!
-
What about the DTi's? I intend to change the oil every 3K for a while but just wondered on peoples thoughts on this engine.
The V6 can suffer a problem of a gummed up oil pressure relief valve if oil changes have been ignored (or the 20K change scheme was used!), this causes the pressure relief valve to not operate correctly causing an over pressure situation which will cause oil to leak past the camcover seals no matter how many times you replace them and clean the breathers. The moral of the story is to change the oil regularly!
I guess same applies, if no problems, just stick to regular oil changes :y
With my tractor, quick oil changes were not curing the issue I had, hence tried the flush on Omegatoy's advice, which worked for me :y
-
What about the DTi's? I intend to change the oil every 3K for a while but just wondered on peoples thoughts on this engine.
The V6 can suffer a problem of a gummed up oil pressure relief valve if oil changes have been ignored (or the 20K change scheme was used!), this causes the pressure relief valve to not operate correctly causing an over pressure situation which will cause oil to leak past the camcover seals no matter how many times you replace them and clean the breathers. The moral of the story is to change the oil regularly!
Nah.....if the presure relief valve was to stick shut it would give a higher pressure oil system....this would not affect the cam covers as they are at crank case pressure....it could affect cam and cranks eals if they get flooded with oil and have blocked drains on them
-
Notice that the reference to flushing with diesel refers to flushing with a diesel rated engine oil, not with diesel fuel. :o
Diesel would doubtless do a great job of cleaning out the rubbish from an engine (I've used it to clean bits of engine because it's about the cheapest fluid I could find that will do so) but it also has zero lubricating properties so if you run, or, worse still, drive your engine with a sump full of diesel rest assured that it will end up perfectly clean - after the inevitable rebuild. ;)
Kevin
-
ok guys this is good stuff, but now i dont think im going to do the flush, but i want to know if the engine inside is clean, how do i know, is there a way to check, thanks
-
ok guys this is good stuff, but now i dont think im going to do the flush, but i want to know if the engine inside is clean, how do i know, is there a way to check, thanks
Is the running temp good, particularly after giving it a booting for a few mins?
If the car is new to you, I'd recommend doing some very short oil changes (500 miles) to ensure it is nice and clean. No need to change the filter every oil change on these short oil changes.
-
(is the car running good) yes shes running great, temperature wise she gets up to 90ish around town fans kick in etc, on the motorway crusing slowly she runs nice and cool and when the snow hit i had to spin the wheels alot and the temperature rose but then fell quickly again, i have no reason to believe the engine is not clean but i dont know how to check, if she could run a little better then that would be great, i just want to protect the engine as much as i can
-
when you do quick oil changes every 500 miles can i use a lower priced oil, because it would get kinda expensive otherwise, thanks
-
If you get a trade card from autobahnstormers ..- £20 .. :)
your oil will suddenly become exceedingly cheap ... :)
Semi synthetic 10W40
5 litre part number 93165216
Offer price for four cans £32.67
Equivalent to
£1.63/litre (add VAT to these prices)
The "normal" price for 5 litres is £25.90 ... over £5 a litre ...
so on TC 20 litres = £32.67 + VAT = £38.39
Normal retail 20 litres = £121.73
saving £83.34 .. for an outlay of £20 ...... whats not to like .. :)
AND you use the correct oil for the car .. :)
I don't see you getting decent oil any cheaper IMHO .. :)
(BTW your filters will be cheaper as well on TC )
-
id like to get the trade card but im kinda wary of them not accepting it at the dealers, i will go in and ask them when i get home, but in everybodies experience, (this is to everyone in general) do the dealers accept the trade card even if its got somthing with autobahnstormers on it?
-
id like to get the trade card but im kinda wary of them not accepting it at the dealers, i will go in and ask them when i get home, but in everybodies experience, (this is to everyone in general) do the dealers accept the trade card even if its got somthing with autobahnstormers on it?
You do have to put your foot down with a firm hand sometimes! ;) ;) ;) :y
-
(is the car running good) yes shes running great, temperature wise she gets up to 90ish around town fans kick in etc, on the motorway crusing slowly she runs nice and cool and when the snow hit i had to spin the wheels alot and the temperature rose but then fell quickly again, i have no reason to believe the engine is not clean but i dont know how to check, if she could run a little better then that would be great, i just want to protect the engine as much as i can
1998 TD, markings on gauage are 90C and 100C, with midpoint at 95C?
If so, should cruise about 93/94C (lower = shagged stat), and never,ever,ever,ever go above 97C.
-
id like to get the trade card but im kinda wary of them not accepting it at the dealers, i will go in and ask them when i get home, but in everybodies experience, (this is to everyone in general) do the dealers accept the trade card even if its got somthing with autobahnstormers on it?
Both local ones take mine OK :y
-
If you go to the trade club site ..
http://www.tradeclub.co.uk/
You can do a quick and dirty check of dealers in your area that are part of the trade club system ..
Just click the "distributor locator" button
My local dealer , Skurray's Swindon, takes the ABS card without hesitation, and even gives me discount on non-TC items.
:)
-
id like to get the trade card but im kinda wary of them not accepting it at the dealers, i will go in and ask them when i get home, but in everybodies experience, (this is to everyone in general) do the dealers accept the trade card even if its got somthing with autobahnstormers on it?
Oddly enough, I've had more difficulty getting certain dealers to accept my genuine TC card than my ABS TC card :o
Generally not a problem though.
If you need cheap oil quickly, and pass Brackley on your way between Watford and Nottingham, I can normally provide GM semi synth for the TC price (currently £32.67 + VAT for 4 x 5l cans), as I normally keep a few cans here.
-
id like to get the trade card but im kinda wary of them not accepting it at the dealers, i will go in and ask them when i get home, but in everybodies experience, (this is to everyone in general) do the dealers accept the trade card even if its got somthing with autobahnstormers on it?
I can get you trade price stuff for collection from my gaff
-
That would be perfect TheBoy, im actually going home tomorrow so if you had some oil already id be very happy to stop by, if you dont have the full 20L then that would be fine, just need enough to do one change and then i could get some more at a later date, i will get around to getting the card over easter after ive asked my local dealer/stealer if they will accept the car, whats the chance that im gonna be one of the unlucky ones ;D
-
Notice that the reference to flushing with diesel refers to flushing with a diesel rated engine oil, not with diesel fuel. :o
Diesel would doubtless do a great job of cleaning out the rubbish from an engine (I've used it to clean bits of engine because it's about the cheapest fluid I could find that will do so) but it also has zero lubricating properties so if you run, or, worse still, drive your engine with a sump full of diesel rest assured that it will end up perfectly clean - after the inevitable rebuild. ;)
Kevin
im sorry but diesel does have lubracating properties, ever tried driving round a roundabout with a diesel spill on it???
and yes the advice referes to putting diesel fuel in the engine and running it for 5/10 mins (standing dont load it), been using this meathod on many a transit dti and real tractors for many years to clean out a stinking eninge and none of them have gone bang.
whether is a good idea on a bmw td engine thought i cant say having never done it on one.
-
im sorry but diesel does have lubracating properties, ever tried driving round a roundabout with a diesel spill on it???
and yes the advice referes to putting diesel fuel in the engine and running it for 5/10 mins (standing dont load it), been using this meathod on many a transit dti and real tractors for many years to clean out a stinking eninge and none of them have gone bang.
whether is a good idea on a bmw td engine thought i cant say having never done it on one.
Diesel is too thin to build up a protective layer on the bearings, in fact the oil pump on a car engine will probably not even pump it adequately, leaving most of the engine without any lubrication. It's not something to which I would subject any engine I own, put it that way, and that includes my lawn mower. ;)
Kevin
-
im sorry but diesel does have lubracating properties, ever tried driving round a roundabout with a diesel spill on it???
and yes the advice referes to putting diesel fuel in the engine and running it for 5/10 mins (standing dont load it), been using this meathod on many a transit dti and real tractors for many years to clean out a stinking eninge and none of them have gone bang.
whether is a good idea on a bmw td engine thought i cant say having never done it on one.
Diesel is too thin to build up a protective layer on the bearings, in fact the oil pump on a car engine will probably not even pump it adequately, leaving most of the engine without any lubrication. It's not something to which I would subject any engine I own, put it that way, and that includes my lawn mower. ;)
Kevin
Ah but the old oil has surely 'built up' a protective layer already? your just cleaning the gunk out under no load for a couple of mins, but then like i said ive only done it on tractors and transists. and dtis for tranists are ten a penny....
im guessing an oil flush debate could be as tendious as a 'what oil should i put in my car' thread
-
That would be perfect TheBoy, im actually going home tomorrow so if you had some oil already id be very happy to stop by, if you dont have the full 20L then that would be fine, just need enough to do one change and then i could get some more at a later date, i will get around to getting the card over easter after ive asked my local dealer/stealer if they will accept the car, whats the chance that im gonna be one of the unlucky ones ;D
Marks DTM is probably less out of your way, but I have 4 x 5l here (or more if you want it!). I'm not around until 6pm tomorrow (thurs), but could leave it with Tunnie if he is around tomorrow?
-
im guessing an oil flush debate could be as tendious as a 'what oil should i put in my car' thread
Oh, let's not go there. ;D ;D ;D
Kevin
-
NEVER EVER put neat diesel fuel into ANY engine as a flushing agent.
Take my word for it - you'll not only wash all the crud into blocking the pick-up strainer, you can literally 'wash-out' the bearings too.
I've seen what can happen - believe me :'(
Best to do frequent oil-changes :y
-
NEVER EVER put neat diesel fuel into ANY engine as a flushing agent.
Take my word for it - you'll not only wash all the crud into blocking the pick-up strainer, you can literally 'wash-out' the bearings too.
I've seen what can happen - believe me :'(
Best to do frequent oil-changes :y
I have a Mclaren diesel engine which is living proof of that.....it died due to a falied injector which resulted in diesel in the sump...the result is a goosed crank and buggered shells!
-
NEVER EVER put neat diesel fuel into ANY engine as a flushing agent.
Take my word for it - you'll not only wash all the crud into blocking the pick-up strainer, you can literally 'wash-out' the bearings too.
I've seen what can happen - believe me :'(
Best to do frequent oil-changes :y
I have a Mclaren diesel engine which is living proof of that.....it died due to a falied injector which resulted in diesel in the sump...the result is a goosed crank and buggered shells!
That's right Mark - I've seen what happened to Leyland 0.400/0.600/0.680s when we had a failure of the leak-off galleries, which were enclosed within the rocker-covers. Everything goosed within - literally!
>:(
Much preferred AEC's idea with 'exposed' injectors and leak-offs.
:y
-
surely these problems come from running an enigine with diesl in is for a period of time un noticed?
and the one with the injector that died, that would surely flood the compression chamber with fuel and that would goose you rod and rings etc anyway......
when servicing an old transit or tractor the meathod used is warm up, drain oil. fill with 50/50 mixture of oil and diesel. run under no load for 10 mins, drain. change filter fill again with oil. change after 500 miles
ive done this at least 40 - 50 times on various tractors and transits over many years and never had an issue.