Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: sc00bi on 23 March 2010, 17:12:26
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hi all, just been to the other section and said hello to all members :)
i have a problem with the lpg on my car...
it switches to lpg for around 10secs (hot or cold), then switches back to petrol automatically...
i appreciate, it could be anything, but as there is only ONE garage around that deals with lpg faults (and its Vauxhall dealer), im trying to save a bit of cash if i can...
i have disconnected the fuses from the lpg- within the fuse box,and re-connected... but thats done nothing, it was working fine 2 days ago..
any help or tips, maybe things i can try or look for will be greatly recevied.. so tia 8-)
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Coolant temp sensor?
I'm sure one of our resident LPG experts will be along soon!!!
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Is a "sequential injector" system or a "single point" system ??
Is the water to the vapouriser getting nice and hot ??
When was the LPG filter last replaced ??
just the first things that spring to mind .....
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Is a "sequential injector" system or a "single point" system ??
Is the water to the vapouriser getting nice and hot ??
When was the LPG filter last replaced ??
just the first things that spring to mind .....
:o
im ok when it comes to petrol engines, but gas i have no idea..
all i know is the car ran on dual fuel when it was first made,
so its not a conversion by any previous owner...
i wouldnt know where to start ::)
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Doesn't the vapouriser go on these?
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sc00bi,
Hello and welcome :y :y
Where are you living? It may be that someone is near enough to have a look for you. You can update your profile with this info :y
I'm assuming it's a 2.0 and, being "factory" dual fuel, probably a Coltek/Koltec (spelt both ways) Necam conversion.
It's worth searching on http://www.lpgforum.co.uk as there's a guy on there who's very knowledgeable about them... Pipj I think?
Could be any of a number of things... As said, Vaporiser temp/LPG pressure/blocked filter ;)
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Doesn't the vapouriser go on these?
IIRCC it's got a distributor instead of injectors and these block up :-/
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Doesn't the vapouriser go on these?
Vapourisers can fail through age - diaphragms harden/split, blockage in the gas side, or blockage in the water side..
But for sure, if the vaporiser ain't suppling enough gas .. it won't run on gas !!!
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Doesn't the vapouriser go on these?
Vapourisers can fail through age - diaphragms harden/split, blockage in the gas side, or blockage in the water side..
But for sure, if the vaporiser ain't suppling enough gas .. it won't run on gas !!!
one other thing i notice, is when i switch it to gas, when the gas kicks in, it idles very poorly before switching back to petrol- if that helps at all??
thankyou all for your swift replies,
btw im in Southampton
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Is a "sequential injector" system or a "single point" system ??
Is the water to the vapouriser getting nice and hot ??
When was the LPG filter last replaced ??
hi again peeps, i have done some reading up on lpg..
i can confirm that water to the vapouriser is nice and hot...
i was thinking, shall i disconnect the gas distributor and clean it up, maybe clearing a blockage?? if i do, is it ok to disconnect all the connecting tubes without any safety worries..
just the first things that spring to mind .....
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My sequent brc LPG is currently sat in the installers for the same problem. Will let you know what mine turns out to be in case yours is the same
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Disconnecting the distributor is fine... Use all the usual precautions, open space, no naked flames etc :y :y
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hi all, just an update for you ...
on friday, i bought some carb cleaner and as it was raining- i never really had time to do much, so i disconnected 2 hoses from the distributer and blew some carb cleaner inside it, and cleaned out the 2 pipes i disconnected...
turned car over, no problems.. flicked to gas... and hey presto!!! i managed to drives around 1 mile to the petrol station and fill up the gas, i left the petrol station and drove about another mile... before it kicked back onto petrol and was now back to normal... gas fault...
So, today, i took out the distributer and cleaned as much as i could, i took the top off and blew carb cleaner down the inside, then put it back together...i took off the four hoses and cleaned them out- the liquid that came out was a little brown, but nothing to bad...
started car up.... flicked to gas, it cuts out after the 3 clicks... so i tried it a few times- nothing...
so, i took the top off the distributer, and noticed the plunger type screw was loose,and had a fair bit of play in each side... so i tightened it up and put it back together...
still nothin.... do you think my distributer has had it??
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It's a problem with the gas not the existing car. Mine had the same thing last week and it turned out to be a knackered temp sensor inside the gas regulator. As it couldn't detect the water temp it couldn't switch to gas do as a safetyeasure flicks back to petrol.
My installer charged £40 fitted for a new regulator and all is well :)
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is there not some kind of diag socket on the ECU or loom?
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It's a problem with the gas not the existing car. Mine had the same thing last week and it turned out to be a knackered temp sensor inside the gas regulator. As it couldn't detect the water temp it couldn't switch to gas do as a safetyeasure flicks back to petrol.
My installer charged £40 fitted for a new regulator and all is well :)
**another update**
Went down to Vauxhall to order the part mentioned above- £31 incl VAT.. so i have ordered one,just incase...
on my way home i popped into my local garage to see if they have any lpg knowledge, after a discussion with one of the mechanics in the know...
he said to me, it is probably the injectors,which will cost you up to £600, so therefor we wont book it in for work,as its not cost effective ... he also said to use a bottle on Winns injector cleaner and see if that clears the injectors...
im so lost now, i dont know where to start... but what id like to know is where does this temp sensor fit in regards to the vaporisor?? also, where abouts does the gas filter go?? does anybody have a diagram or picture maybe?
thankyou again for your help, i really dont know what to do anymore :-/ :'(
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It's a problem with the gas not the existing car. Mine had the same thing last week and it turned out to be a knackered temp sensor inside the gas regulator. As it couldn't detect the water temp it couldn't switch to gas do as a safetyeasure flicks back to petrol.
My installer charged £40 fitted for a new regulator and all is well :)
**another update**
Went down to Vauxhall to order the part mentioned above- £31 incl VAT.. so i have ordered one,just incase...
on my way home i popped into my local garage to see if they have any lpg knowledge, after a discussion with one of the mechanics in the know...
he said to me, it is probably the injectors,which will cost you up to £600, so therefor we wont book it in for work,as its not cost effective ... he also said to use a bottle on Winns injector cleaner and see if that clears the injectors...
im so lost now, i dont know where to start... but what id like to know is where does this temp sensor fit in regards to the vaporisor?? also, where abouts does the gas filter go?? does anybody have a diagram or picture maybe?
thankyou again for your help, i really dont know what to do anymore :-/ :'(
What utter 'dangle berries'! my entire install costs came to around that!
What ever system you must have, there must be a diagnostic lead....
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It's a problem with the gas not the existing car. Mine had the same thing last week and it turned out to be a knackered temp sensor inside the gas regulator. As it couldn't detect the water temp it couldn't switch to gas do as a safetyeasure flicks back to petrol.
My installer charged £40 fitted for a new regulator and all is well :)
**another update**
Went down to Vauxhall to order the part mentioned above- £31 incl VAT.. so i have ordered one,just incase...
on my way home i popped into my local garage to see if they have any lpg knowledge, after a discussion with one of the mechanics in the know...
he said to me, it is probably the injectors,which will cost you up to £600, so therefor we wont book it in for work,as its not cost effective ... he also said to use a bottle on Winns injector cleaner and see if that clears the injectors...
im so lost now, i dont know where to start... but what id like to know is where does this temp sensor fit in regards to the vaporisor?? also, where abouts does the gas filter go?? does anybody have a diagram or picture maybe?
thankyou again for your help, i really dont know what to do anymore :-/ :'(
What utter 'dangle berries'! my entire install costs came to around that!
What ever system you must have, there must be a diagnostic lead....
Tunnie - you do not know what injectors his system has, nor do you know the type of LPG as regards to diagnostics - there are other options beyond Stag ECUs and Valtek 'injectors' ;)
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It's a problem with the gas not the existing car. Mine had the same thing last week and it turned out to be a knackered temp sensor inside the gas regulator. As it couldn't detect the water temp it couldn't switch to gas do as a safetyeasure flicks back to petrol.
My installer charged £40 fitted for a new regulator and all is well :)
**another update**
Went down to Vauxhall to order the part mentioned above- £31 incl VAT.. so i have ordered one,just incase...
on my way home i popped into my local garage to see if they have any lpg knowledge, after a discussion with one of the mechanics in the know...
he said to me, it is probably the injectors,which will cost you up to £600, so therefor we wont book it in for work,as its not cost effective ... he also said to use a bottle on Winns injector cleaner and see if that clears the injectors...
im so lost now, i dont know where to start... but what id like to know is where does this temp sensor fit in regards to the vaporisor?? also, where abouts does the gas filter go?? does anybody have a diagram or picture maybe?
thankyou again for your help, i really dont know what to do anymore :-/ :'(
What utter 'dangle berries'! my entire install costs came to around that!
What ever system you must have, there must be a diagnostic lead....
Tunnie - you do not know what injectors his system has, nor do you know the type of LPG as regards to diagnostics - there are other options beyond Stag ECUs and Valtek 'injectors' ;)
Koltec ;)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KOLTEC-NECAM-NEW-INJECTOR-EGI_W0QQitemZ250545193615QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3a55a8428f
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For Astra, but it seems Koltec is standard GM fitting for duel fuel cars, loads of threads on people getting ECU codes...
http://www.askanowner.com/qa/view.asp?guid=&sid=1&qid=240544
Worth checking the manual for how to get these :y
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Tunnie - you do not know what injectors his system has, nor do you know the type of LPG as regards to diagnostics - there are other options beyond Stag ECUs and Valtek 'injectors' ;)
Do now ;)
Read out diagnostic system for Koltec EGI / GSI.
De EGI LPG installation from Koltec has a self diagnostic-system which all disturbances will
be storages in its memory for a time.
When you have a problem whit the LPG installation, the first you have to do is read out this
memory.
This prevents expensive repairs, because the most auto mechanicals don’t have knowledge for
LPG installations.
Read out this memory is not difficult, and you don’t need expensive tools.
Behind de switch for choosing LPG / petrol is a grey wire whit a connector which is not
connected.
This wire has to be extended whit a other wire and connected whit the earth (chassis) of the
car.
Then you turn on the car key till all light bulbs in the dashboard go on all but don’t start the
engine.
The light bulb in the LPG/petrol switch goes flashing now.
This flashing is the giving the disturbances if there are.
Example1: 1x flashing, waiting a moment and then 2x flashing behind each other is code 12 =
no turning signal for the engine.
Note: This code is correct because we didn’t start the engine.(just at older types > 1995)
Example2: 4x flashing, waiting a moment and then 5x flashing behind each other is code 45 =
Gas mixture to rich.
Note: this code is coming often if the Vaporiser needs revision.
The diaphragms leaking and the Vaporiser/ pressure regulator don’t working well.
Every code will be given 3 times after each other before given a next code.
Codes which can be given:
Code 12 No turning signal for the engine (Vaporiser whitout temperature sensor)
(older type >1995)
Code 13 No Lambda sondesignal (lambdasonde or wiring is damaged)
Code 14 Temperature sensor signal to high.
(Vaporiser whit temperature sensor)(newer type 1995>)
Code 15 Temperature sensor signal to low.
(Vaporiser whit temperature sensor)(newer type 1995>)
Code 21 TPS-signal to high.(TPS = Throttle Position Sensor)
Code 22 TPS-signal to low.
Code 33 MAP-sensor signal to high.
Code 34 MAP-sensor signal to low.
Code 43 Divider/regulator don’t working.
Code 45 Gas mixture to rich.(light bulb in switch is flashing by driving the car)
When the gas mixture is to poor, the diagnose system gives no signal because it is thinking
the tank is (almost) empty.(light bulb in switch is flashing by driving the car)
If this is this is take a longer time, the system goes automatically to petrol run.
If the system is giving no disturbance code, and the light bulb in the switch doesn’t flash by
driving the car, the pressures don’t need to be checked.
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guys, in your own opinions... what do you think i should do or where do i start, i dont have the cash to take it to an lpg specialist. my reg is R854 DAB - incase it comes in useful to anybody..
im thinking of doing the paperclip test :D
just tried the bulb flashing test... and the bulb doesnt flash at all.... strange, mind you i only had a thick piece of cable to connect to car chasis :o
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guys, in your own opinions... what do you think i should do or where do i start, i dont have the cash to take it to an lpg specialist. my reg is R854 DAB - incase it comes in useful to anybody..
im thinking of doing the paperclip test :D
Try the instructions above :y
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Tunnie - you do not know what injectors his system has, nor do you know the type of LPG as regards to diagnostics - there are other options beyond Stag ECUs and Valtek 'injectors' ;)
Do now ;)
Read out diagnostic system for Koltec EGI / GSI.
De EGI LPG installation from Koltec has a self diagnostic-system which all disturbances will
be storages in its memory for a time.
When you have a problem whit the LPG installation, the first you have to do is read out this
memory.
This prevents expensive repairs, because the most auto mechanicals don’t have knowledge for
LPG installations.
Read out this memory is not difficult, and you don’t need expensive tools.
Behind de switch for choosing LPG / petrol is a grey wire whit a connector which is not
connected.
This wire has to be extended whit a other wire and connected whit the earth (chassis) of the
car.
Then you turn on the car key till all light bulbs in the dashboard go on all but don’t start the
engine.
The light bulb in the LPG/petrol switch goes flashing now.
This flashing is the giving the disturbances if there are.
Example1: 1x flashing, waiting a moment and then 2x flashing behind each other is code 12 =
no turning signal for the engine.
Note: This code is correct because we didn’t start the engine.(just at older types > 1995)
Example2: 4x flashing, waiting a moment and then 5x flashing behind each other is code 45 =
Gas mixture to rich.
Note: this code is coming often if the Vaporiser needs revision.
The diaphragms leaking and the Vaporiser/ pressure regulator don’t working well.
Every code will be given 3 times after each other before given a next code.
Codes which can be given:
Code 12 No turning signal for the engine (Vaporiser whitout temperature sensor)
(older type >1995)
Code 13 No Lambda sondesignal (lambdasonde or wiring is damaged)
Code 14 Temperature sensor signal to high.
(Vaporiser whit temperature sensor)(newer type 1995>)
Code 15 Temperature sensor signal to low.
(Vaporiser whit temperature sensor)(newer type 1995>)
Code 21 TPS-signal to high.(TPS = Throttle Position Sensor)
Code 22 TPS-signal to low.
Code 33 MAP-sensor signal to high.
Code 34 MAP-sensor signal to low.
Code 43 Divider/regulator don’t working.
Code 45 Gas mixture to rich.(light bulb in switch is flashing by driving the car)
When the gas mixture is to poor, the diagnose system gives no signal because it is thinking
the tank is (almost) empty.(light bulb in switch is flashing by driving the car)
If this is this is take a longer time, the system goes automatically to petrol run.
If the system is giving no disturbance code, and the light bulb in the switch doesn’t flash by
driving the car, the pressures don’t need to be checked.
Thats better :y
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.. fitting for duel ....
On guard! ::) ::)
(http://games.theoffside.com/files/2009/12/groundhogduel.jpg)
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guys, in your own opinions... what do you think i should do or where do i start, i dont have the cash to take it to an lpg specialist. my reg is R854 DAB - incase it comes in useful to anybody..
im thinking of doing the paperclip test :D
Try the instructions above :y
just did, the bulb does not flash at all ::)
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guys, in your own opinions... what do you think i should do or where do i start, i dont have the cash to take it to an lpg specialist. my reg is R854 DAB - incase it comes in useful to anybody..
im thinking of doing the paperclip test :D
Try the instructions above :y
just did, the bulb does not flash at all ::)
Did you do this?
"Behind the switch for choosing LPG / petrol is a grey wire whit a connector which is not connected.
This wire has to be extended whit a other wire and connected whit the earth (chassis) of the car.
Then you turn on the car key till all light bulbs in the dashboard go on all but don’t start the engine."
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yes i did..
ill also mention i put some injector cleaner in to petrol tank and went for a drive- but it just cuts out when switched to gas(lpg light flashing)
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Injector cleaner poured into the petrol tank isn't going to flow through the gas injectors so why bother :-/
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Two points come to mind.
1. Injector cleaner poured into the petrol tank isn't going to flow through the gas injectors so why bother :-/
2. The lack of any flashes from the gas system (and the fact it isn't working) would lead me to have another look at the fuses. It sounds to me as though there is no power to the gas system.
the guy at the garage told me to put this into fuel tank- shows he knows next to f**k all...and i did actually querie this, saying to him " if the car can run on lpg,then it will have seperate injectors ?" to which he said they are shard between petrol/lpg
as for power to gas system- all fuses were checked yesterday- under steering wheel and next to battery, normal fuses and the fat fuses 8-)
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Have you done as I suggested and searched on http://www.lpgforum.co.uk?
HERE (http://my90.co.uk/lpg/viewtopic.php?t=7765&highlight=vauxhall+switch+back) is just one example of similar problems :y :y
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Oh... And the guy "in the know" at your local garage obviously hasn't the faintest idea!
Could well be the solenoid as per the above link ;)
Or the LPG distributor may be gummed up
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Oh... And the guy "in the know" at your local garage obviously hasn't the faintest idea!
Could well be the solenoid as per the above link ;)
Or the LPG distributor may be gummed up
hi,thanks for your help, yes i have visited the lpg forum..
as for solenoid clicking, i can definately hear to one under the bonnet and one from the boot..
as for distribter,its been disconnected and cleaned using carb cleaner, it wasnt blocked either. :y
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Oh... And the guy "in the know" at your local garage obviously hasn't the faintest idea!
Could well be the solenoid as per the above link ;)
Or the LPG distributor may be gummed up
hi,thanks for your help, yes i have visited the lpg forum..
as for solenoid clicking, i can definately hear to one under the bonnet and one from the boot..
as for distribter,its been disconnected and cleaned using carb cleaner, it wasnt blocked either. :y
Keep searching through... The answer will be there and pipj knows far more about the Koltec system than anyone I know ;) ;)
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hi again all :)
as the rain has stopped, i had some more time to have another look at car...
im thinking, how can i test the stepper motor- to see its working ok?
i have taken the cover off the solenoid,and can see it is working fine, i know gas is getting to the engine, as before it stalls i can smell the fumes....
are both pipes that goto the vaporisor supposed to get hot?
im still trying to sort this myself as i cant afford a gas tech :-[
**just read up about a solenoid VALVE? where is this located
and is it ok to disconnect it and clean it?
thanks again
-
hi again all :)
as the rain has stopped, i had some more time to have another look at car...
im thinking, how can i test the stepper motor- to see its working ok?
i have taken the cover off the solenoid,and can see it is working fine, i know gas is getting to the engine, as before it stalls i can smell the fumes....
are both pipes that goto the vaporisor supposed to get hot?
im still trying to sort this myself as i cant afford a gas tech :-[
**just read up about a solenoid VALVE? where is this located
and is it ok to disconnect it and clean it?
thanks again
You didn't say that before... There's your answer. There's a leak :y
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hi again all :)
as the rain has stopped, i had some more time to have another look at car...
im thinking, how can i test the stepper motor- to see its working ok?
i have taken the cover off the solenoid,and can see it is working fine, i know gas is getting to the engine, as before it stalls i can smell the fumes....
are both pipes that goto the vaporisor supposed to get hot?
im still trying to sort this myself as i cant afford a gas tech :-[
**just read up about a solenoid VALVE? where is this located
and is it ok to disconnect it and clean it?
thanks again
You didn't say that before... There's your answer. There's a leak :y
only just noticed it.. so i shouldnt be able to smell gas at all whithin the engine bay?
-
hi again all :)
as the rain has stopped, i had some more time to have another look at car...
im thinking, how can i test the stepper motor- to see its working ok?
i have taken the cover off the solenoid,and can see it is working fine, i know gas is getting to the engine, as before it stalls i can smell the fumes....
are both pipes that goto the vaporisor supposed to get hot?
im still trying to sort this myself as i cant afford a gas tech :-[
**just read up about a solenoid VALVE? where is this located
and is it ok to disconnect it and clean it?
thanks again
You didn't say that before... There's your answer. There's a leak :y
only just noticed it.. so i shouldnt be able to smell gas at all whithin the engine bay?
Nope ;)
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Don't go leak hunting with a fag on the go either ;)
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hi again all :)
as the rain has stopped, i had some more time to have another look at car...
im thinking, how can i test the stepper motor- to see its working ok?
i have taken the cover off the solenoid,and can see it is working fine, i know gas is getting to the engine, as before it stalls i can smell the fumes....
are both pipes that goto the vaporisor supposed to get hot?
im still trying to sort this myself as i cant afford a gas tech :-[
**just read up about a solenoid VALVE? where is this located
and is it ok to disconnect it and clean it?
thanks again
You didn't say that before... There's your answer. There's a leak :y
only just noticed it.. so i shouldnt be able to smell gas at all whithin the engine bay?
Nope ;)
On subject of that, i do get a faint smell of gas in the cabin when it just switches over from cold, but its very very small, hardly tell its there. Goes within a matter of seconds....
-
hi again all :)
as the rain has stopped, i had some more time to have another look at car...
im thinking, how can i test the stepper motor- to see its working ok?
i have taken the cover off the solenoid,and can see it is working fine, i know gas is getting to the engine, as before it stalls i can smell the fumes....
are both pipes that goto the vaporisor supposed to get hot?
im still trying to sort this myself as i cant afford a gas tech :-[
**just read up about a solenoid VALVE? where is this located
and is it ok to disconnect it and clean it?
thanks again
You didn't say that before... There's your answer. There's a leak :y
only just noticed it.. so i shouldnt be able to smell gas at all whithin the engine bay?
Nope ;)
On subject of that, i do get a faint smell of gas in the cabin when it just switches over from cold, but its very very small, hardly tell its there. Goes within a matter of seconds....
You at home or work tomorrow? I'll be popping in to TB's early afternoon
-
hi again all :)
as the rain has stopped, i had some more time to have another look at car...
im thinking, how can i test the stepper motor- to see its working ok?
i have taken the cover off the solenoid,and can see it is working fine, i know gas is getting to the engine, as before it stalls i can smell the fumes....
are both pipes that goto the vaporisor supposed to get hot?
im still trying to sort this myself as i cant afford a gas tech :-[
**just read up about a solenoid VALVE? where is this located
and is it ok to disconnect it and clean it?
thanks again
You didn't say that before... There's your answer. There's a leak :y
only just noticed it.. so i shouldnt be able to smell gas at all whithin the engine bay?
Nope ;)
On subject of that, i do get a faint smell of gas in the cabin when it just switches over from cold, but its very very small, hardly tell its there. Goes within a matter of seconds....
You at home or work tomorrow? I'll be popping in to TB's early afternoon
Work :(
Escaped early today, but doubt do same tomorrow. Be back around 7ish
-
hi again all :)
as the rain has stopped, i had some more time to have another look at car...
im thinking, how can i test the stepper motor- to see its working ok?
i have taken the cover off the solenoid,and can see it is working fine, i know gas is getting to the engine, as before it stalls i can smell the fumes....
are both pipes that goto the vaporisor supposed to get hot?
im still trying to sort this myself as i cant afford a gas tech :-[
**just read up about a solenoid VALVE? where is this located
and is it ok to disconnect it and clean it?
thanks again
You didn't say that before... There's your answer. There's a leak :y
only just noticed it.. so i shouldnt be able to smell gas at all whithin the engine bay?
Nope ;)
On subject of that, i do get a faint smell of gas in the cabin when it just switches over from cold, but its very very small, hardly tell its there. Goes within a matter of seconds....
You at home or work tomorrow? I'll be popping in to TB's early afternoon
Work :(
Escaped early today, but doubt do same tomorrow. Be back around 7ish
Plan to be home by then ;) ;)
Check all the joints again... Best leak detector is actually the Mk 1 Nose (which you probably noticed I used mainly)
It's not unheard of to get a feint whiff on switchover but I never have :-/
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its very, very slight. Don't think any passengers would not notice, as mentioned it almost completely goes within few seconds.
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its very, very slight. Don't think any passengers would not notice, as mentioned it almost completely goes within few seconds.
ok,ill check all hoses when the weather sorts itself out...
am i able to take off the vapourisor and clean it out, without any problems?
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update**
guys, i have just been down to car again, and found that one of the pipes from the gas distributer to the engine,was not connected at the engine side- it had come off the rubber hose...
so, i managed to get that connected again, and really thought that would be the problem all along... but nope :(
anyway... i was doing some cleaning of pipes and around the engine when i noticed a small fuse holder at the rear of the engine(drivers side) and connected to the gas wiring loom... i pulled this apart, and it doesnt have a fuse inside, just 2 metal pins... i have the pictures,but dont know how to put them up :-/
but since i pulled that apart, then put it back together, the car no longer stalls when flicking to gas.. the solenoids click, then the light flashes...
is there anybody on the forums who could help me out, ill pay you :D
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off topic.
i found a superb vapourisor guide... where can i share it? 8-)