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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Kiksomass on 04 April 2010, 15:43:11

Title: Aargh crap....
Post by: Kiksomass on 04 April 2010, 15:43:11
On M1 south earlier,first EML came on,second, coolant level-check so I pulled over and it was running rough and I had lost all coolant. Went to turn it over again....solid. No water in oil, so yep,you guessed it, head gasket. Called someone out and on removing 4th plug it was soaked. Turned it over and a huge fountain of water came out at the gearbox end of the block.
My first question is do these 4 pots need head skimming?
Second, is it a difficult job and what am I likely to encounter?
And third,if I took it to VX,ball park,what am I looking at cost wise?
I'm well disappointed.Only just had it serviced last week and now I need yet another coolant/oil change :( :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: tunnie on 04 April 2010, 15:59:37
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On M1 south earlier,first EML came on,second, coolant level-check so I pulled over and it was running rough and I had lost all coolant. Went to turn it over again....solid. No water in oil, so yep,you guessed it, head gasket. Called someone out and on removing 4th plug it was soaked. Turned it over and a huge fountain of water came out at the gearbox end of the block.
My first question is do these 4 pots need head skimming?
Second, is it a difficult job and what am I likely to encounter?
And third,if I took it to VX,ball park,what am I looking at cost wise?

I'm well disappointed.Only just had it serviced last week and now I need yet another coolant/oil change :( :( :( :( :( :(

1) Yes if it over-heated
2) fairly straight forward, good space to work with, nothing special
3) just don't, quotes will be in 4 figures, DIY its about £150
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: PhilRich on 04 April 2010, 16:01:58
Not a hard job at all on a 4 pot, i did mine on my drive in freezing weather with the minimum of tools, but it is worth buying/borrowing a angle dail (£10 on e-bay)for your torque wrench and a cam locking tool (plastic gismo, costs about £6-7). You can check your head for warping with a steel ruler/straight edge, but if it is warped, it should only cost £30-50 at an engineering shop. Please only use GENUINE VX head bolts & gaskets/head gasket as you have peace of mind for not that much more than iffy pattern stuff costs. It took me a weekend & £240 to do mine (inc. head skim) & i'm far from fit & healthy LOL. I would also change the thermostat at the same time if I was you (stat only, not the complete stat+ body). Make sure you label everything before dismantling it & if poss. take loads of photos of the engine from every angle & every part as you dismantle it, it will make it easier to put it all back together. Also buy a roll of food bags & a felt pen from your local £1 shop to hold the cam caps & followers & number & label each one. Be methodic, think twice before removing/refitting anything, and above all, make sure everything is CLEAN before refitting. Let me know how you get on :y
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: PhilRich on 04 April 2010, 16:06:30
Quote
Quote
On M1 south earlier,first EML came on,second, coolant level-check so I pulled over and it was running rough and I had lost all coolant. Went to turn it over again....solid. No water in oil, so yep,you guessed it, head gasket. Called someone out and on removing 4th plug it was soaked. Turned it over and a huge fountain of water came out at the gearbox end of the block.
My first question is do these 4 pots need head skimming?
Second, is it a difficult job and what am I likely to encounter?
And third,if I took it to VX,ball park,what am I looking at cost wise?

I'm well disappointed.Only just had it serviced last week and now I need yet another coolant/oil change :( :( :( :( :( :(

1) Yes if it over-heated
2) fairly straight forward, good space to work with, nothing special
3) just don't, quotes will be in 4 figures, DIY its about £150
[/highlight]





My total costs included buying a garage creeper, axle stands and hydraulic jack, together with the bits already mentioned and other bits & pieces.If you already have a comprehensive toolkit, then Tunnie's figure is more accurate  :y
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: tunnie on 04 April 2010, 16:17:12
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Quote
Quote
On M1 south earlier,first EML came on,second, coolant level-check so I pulled over and it was running rough and I had lost all coolant. Went to turn it over again....solid. No water in oil, so yep,you guessed it, head gasket. Called someone out and on removing 4th plug it was soaked. Turned it over and a huge fountain of water came out at the gearbox end of the block.
My first question is do these 4 pots need head skimming?
Second, is it a difficult job and what am I likely to encounter?
And third,if I took it to VX,ball park,what am I looking at cost wise?

I'm well disappointed.Only just had it serviced last week and now I need yet another coolant/oil change :( :( :( :( :( :(

1) Yes if it over-heated
2) fairly straight forward, good space to work with, nothing special
3) just don't, quotes will be in 4 figures, DIY its about £150
[/highlight]





My total costs included buying a garage creeper, axle stands and hydraulic jack, together with the bits already mentioned and other bits & pieces.If you already have a comprehensive toolkit, then Tunnie's figure is more accurate  :y

Sorry yes should have said thats with decent set of tools, but halfords 150 pc set, and you should be fine.
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: Kiksomass on 04 April 2010, 16:22:17
Definately no over heating went on So I'm guessing head should be ok. I have a decent torque wrench but the thought of removing the cambelt doesn't inspire me. I don't have a locking tool either.
I'm waiting for someone to get back to me to do the job, so I may hold off for a couple of days until he does. meanwhile is it best to remove the plugs and any water left? I don't want corrosion in the cylinders if I will be leaving it for a few days.
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: TheBoy on 04 April 2010, 16:26:04
DIY it, pull head off, measure it then.

Sure tunnie will lend you his locking wedge :P
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: tunnie on 04 April 2010, 16:32:15
indeed, got spare wedge here (but will need it for when mine goes  ::))

Almost confident enough to tackle one now after seeing father tunnies 2.2 being done, its quite straight forward, its just the cambelt which makes me nervous
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: PhilRich on 04 April 2010, 16:32:45
There really isn't anything to worry about. Believe me, if I can do it, a MONKEY can do it! By the way, that isn't a reference to the fact I live in Hartlepool! ;D
As said, do it yourself. The sense of self satisfaction & achievement when you complete a job like this immense, you couldn't buy that sense of smugness for love nor money ;D ;D
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: TheBoy on 04 April 2010, 16:33:50
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indeed, got spare wedge here (but will need it for when mine goes  ::))

Almost confident enough to tackle one now after seeing father tunnies 2.2 being done, its quite straight forward, its just the cambelt which makes me nervous
you need engine in safe position to pull head off (90 before tdc), so no need for nerves ;)
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: Kiksomass on 04 April 2010, 16:33:59
Thanks guys. I'm going outside now to assess or bottle out. Stupid head gaskets....I will let you know how I get on. :-/
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: tunnie on 04 April 2010, 16:34:43
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indeed, got spare wedge here (but will need it for when mine goes  ::))

Almost confident enough to tackle one now after seeing father tunnies 2.2 being done, its quite straight forward, its just the cambelt which makes me nervous
you need engine in safe position to pull head off (90 before tdc), so no need for nerves ;)

Its the setting of TDC, and releasing the cams which scares me, the actual removal of them is ok
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: TheBoy on 04 April 2010, 16:37:48
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indeed, got spare wedge here (but will need it for when mine goes  ::))

Almost confident enough to tackle one now after seeing father tunnies 2.2 being done, its quite straight forward, its just the cambelt which makes me nervous
you need engine in safe position to pull head off (90 before tdc), so no need for nerves ;)

Its the setting of TDC, and releasing the cams which scares me, the actual removal of them is ok
No, set crank to 90 btdc, then you can release cams (gently!). Pistons halfway down, so valves are safe.

When putting back on, put cams into tdc position, and lock, then wind crank to tdc, then pop on the belt.
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: tunnie on 04 April 2010, 16:50:25
 :-[ Its that bit which gets me really, i am confident enough to strip everything else down. When mine goes will have a bash myself  :)
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: dbug on 04 April 2010, 16:53:52
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:-[ Its that bit which gets me really, i am confident enough to strip everything else down. When mine goes will have a bash myself  :)

Careful Tunnie - its knowing where to bash it  ;D ;D ;)
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: TheBoy on 04 April 2010, 16:57:30
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:-[ Its that bit which gets me really, i am confident enough to strip everything else down. When mine goes will have a bash myself  :)
Do it that way, nought to go wrong ;)
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 04 April 2010, 17:42:12
Email sent...

As per email - what rotton luck!

If when you turned it over, water was coming out of no4 cylinder, it points  to a rather  spectacular head gasket failure!

Not uncommon on 2.2...

And yes, I am happy to assist  :y
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: Kiksomass on 04 April 2010, 18:41:21
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Email sent...

As per email - what rotton luck!

If when you turned it over, water was coming out of no4 cylinder, it points  to a rather  spectacular head gasket failure!

Not uncommon on 2.2...

And yes, I am happy to assist  :y
James you're a star!Anyway,started to strip down and found a little mayo in breathers but no where near what I thought I'd find.I'm guessing more water to cylinder than water to oil where the break in the gasket has occured. I'm out of my depth a bit now though. Cambelt still on,exhaust manifold still on and throttle area still on. Camshafts exposed and lots of fresh oil sitting there. Dunno where TDC is,but I've got all the cam lobes as horizontal as poss and while manually cranking it feels more free.Without a Haynes manual I'm not going much further. Chicken!! :-[ ::) :D
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 04 April 2010, 19:11:11
I've replied to your email mate :)

I have no doubt we can sort it. Was there any white smoke? Or smell of fuel, in the expansion tank?

I am off out with the dogs for a bit, but should be able to check messages again by 10pm  :y

Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: charlie on 04 April 2010, 19:23:48
pm on route
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 04 April 2010, 20:40:29
Back - a bit early.
Was too dark for long walkies!

Email sent G.
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: Clouseau on 05 April 2010, 09:40:02
You wil need a decent torque wrench, that will accurately give you an 8NM torque (although as I recall the lowest torque quoted is a 6NM).  I already had a half inch drive T/Wrench but it wouldn't go anywhere near that low. Ended up buying a £50 3/4 drive from halfords which I have to say is an excellent tool.  You can't mess about with aluminium heads!
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/rjlangton/200-200238.jpg)
Be prepared for a looooong job!  That's why the dealership prices are prohibitive.  Aim for a day to strip down and a day to put back together and as already stated the key to success is to be methodical. Take lots of photos, list what you are doing. Don't forget to add antifreeze, oil and filter to the HG gasket kit on your shopping list. Good luck; it isn't too difficult but hugely satisfying when it's all back together again and fires up on the first turn of the key :y
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: TheBoy on 05 April 2010, 10:34:30
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You wil need a decent torque wrench, that will accurately give you an 8NM torque (although as I recall the lowest torque quoted is a 6NM).  I already had a half inch drive T/Wrench but it wouldn't go anywhere near that low. Ended up buying a £50 3/4 drive from halfords which I have to say is an excellent tool.  You can't mess about with aluminium heads!
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/rjlangton/200-200238.jpg)
Be prepared for a looooong job!  That's why the dealership prices are prohibitive.  Aim for a day to strip down and a day to put back together and as already stated the key to success is to be methodical. Take lots of photos, list what you are doing. Don't forget to add antifreeze, oil and filter to the HG gasket kit on your shopping list. Good luck; it isn't too difficult but hugely satisfying when it's all back together again and fires up on the first turn of the key :y
I have that very same torque wrench myself, and would recommend it.  Its £40 to those who have access to Halfords trade.  Much better than the Seeley one I used to use.
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: tunnie on 05 April 2010, 10:35:54
i have both 8-60Nm & 60-300Nm Halfords ones, got them on Trade, found them excellent  :y
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: TheBoy on 05 April 2010, 10:38:11
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i have both 8-60Nm & 60-300Nm Halfords ones, got them on Trade, found them excellent  :y
THats the big bertha (£50 trade) isn't it?  Are you strong enough to use it :o
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: tunnie on 05 April 2010, 10:42:28
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i have both 8-60Nm & 60-300Nm Halfords ones, got them on Trade, found them excellent  :y
THats the big bertha (£50 trade) isn't it?  Are you strong enough to use it :o

Only ever gone up to 110Nm for wheel nuts, thats a bit of a struggle  ;D
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 05 April 2010, 12:35:13
Quote
Quote
You wil need a decent torque wrench, that will accurately give you an 8NM torque (although as I recall the lowest torque quoted is a 6NM).  I already had a half inch drive T/Wrench but it wouldn't go anywhere near that low. Ended up buying a £50 3/4 drive from halfords which I have to say is an excellent tool.  You can't mess about with aluminium heads!
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/rjlangton/200-200238.jpg)
Be prepared for a looooong job!  That's why the dealership prices are prohibitive.  Aim for a day to strip down and a day to put back together and as already stated the key to success is to be methodical. Take lots of photos, list what you are doing. Don't forget to add antifreeze, oil and filter to the HG gasket kit on your shopping list. Good luck; it isn't too difficult but hugely satisfying when it's all back together again and fires up on the first turn of the key :y
I have that very same torque wrench myself, and would recommend it.  Its £40 to those who have access to Halfords trade.  Much better than the Seeley one I used to use.

Likewise,  I have that torquewrench  too

Having done lots before, I reckon I can do this job in a (long) day

The only obsticle would be if the head was found to be warped - as the job would then be held up while it goes off for machining..
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: TheBoy on 05 April 2010, 12:42:28
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Having done lots before, I reckon I can do this job in a (long) day
Doable if no snags I reckon :y


Reminds me, I really must do the HG on the Rover again ;D.  Ever changed an oil rail on one before?
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 05 April 2010, 12:49:54
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Having done lots before, I reckon I can do this job in a (long) day
Doable if no snags I reckon :y


My thinking too. Hopefully I can get the old girl sorted this coming weekend..

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Reminds me, I really must do the HG on the Rover again ;D.  Ever changed an oil rail on one before?

I'll give you a hand with that - it was a laugh last time :y

Looks quite accessible with sump off?

(http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/engines/images/oil_rail_figure.JPG)
Title: Re: Aargh crap....
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 April 2010, 13:01:08
IIRC the oil rail has the main bearing caps built into it on the k series? Might be wrong. :-/

Kevin