Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: tunnie on 01 January 2008, 21:25:20
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James turned up today, with Maria and their daughter + 2 dogs!
We had a busy day, myself and James set to work on the sodder that is project Elite.
We took a look at the pluming of the coolant system and reliased what a complete load of crap it was, there was a T junction comming off the main pipe from the block, so instead of using the HBV, it by passed that to this T, one end went to the heater matrix and the other the Evaporator.
Why on earth would water decide to stop and make a 90 degree turn?? so we.... err well James! re-plumbed it, so it came directly off the coolant bridge, so all water had to go though the evaportor, it was the only way it could go.
Instant difference, the evaportor was getting hot rather than freezing!
After a nice long test run, we found it did not freeze up, ran on gas at speed fine, but refused to idle on gas.
We spent the next 2 hours trying to figure out why the damn thing would not idle, including putting the entire gas flow via the ICV ::)
None of these worked, just when we thought all was lost, we spotted a loose cable! :o
Ohh ahhh whats this cable comming off the evaportor, it looks like an earth cable/leccy loom.
Plug that in, idles and drives sweet as nut on gas! ;D ;D ;D
So now cooking on gas ;D ;D ;D ;D
Now just got to fix that 1 noisey lifter and project Elite LPG is actually getting someware! ;D
So a big thanks to James V6, i think is family in tow enjoyed their stay too :y
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Sounds more productive than my day building a media center for somebody, only for them to sod it up a few hours later :(
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btw, that lifter will sound as bad on gas as it does on petrol ;)
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So, next Q, even though its still not right, are you starting to enjoy a bit of v6 power now?
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So, next Q, even though its still not right, are you starting to enjoy a bit of v6 power now?
No 2.2 in the cars for sale / wanted section yet ;D
Good to hear it's unravelling its' problems slowly though.
Kevin
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yes yes, allright the lifter is still fubar :(
Thats the next job, we rekon its just one lifter on the passenger bank.
And yes i do like the HIDs and V6 power... still prefer working on 4pots ;)
Plan is to still sell it on fleabay....
If I do get a V6, it would HAVE to be a 3.0 / 3.2. I'd rather have a 3.2....
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So, next Q, even though its still not right, are you starting to enjoy a bit of v6 power now?
No 2.2 in the cars for sale / wanted section yet ;D
Good to hear it's unravelling its' problems slowly though.
Kevin
You where just about to get a PM, to see if your about next weekend....
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You where just about to get a PM, to see if your about next weekend....
Should be. Let me guess... Lifter cleaning?
There is a VAT free day at Southampton Machine Mart too IIRC.
Kevin
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Sounds more productive than my day building a media center for somebody, only for them to sod it up a few hours later :(
guess what is here ... ;D
similiar repairing pc..
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You where just about to get a PM, to see if your about next weekend....
Should be. Let me guess... Lifter cleaning?
There is a VAT free day at Southampton Machine Mart too IIRC.
Kevin
Might need to buy a vice then, i have most tools these days, but no vice to crush the lifter springs...
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Yes, there were a number of issues resolved today.
1) LPG Evaporator had been constantly freezing.
Upon close inspection, it is clear that whichever monkey plumbed in the Vaporisor, for some reason forgot there was such a thing called gravity, and expected water to just "jump" up through an upwards 90 deg vertical bend to feed the evaporator. In short, evaporator had no coolant flow, hence why it was always covered in ice when driven on gas! We resolved this by removing half of the cooling system, and re-plumbing it. We ditched the majority of the "T" peices, cos they are totally un necessary. The coolant feed for the evaportator is now coming directly from the coolant bridge, and the evaporator feeds the coolant hot back to the HBV. This way, the evaporator is constantly fed with hot coolant - yet the HBV can still do it's job. When we put the inlet and plenum on and fired it up - Instant difference - evaporator red hot. So that problem is now solved.
2) Original air intake pipes (bagpipes) were a pile of poo.
They were badly fitting, and clearly not capable of being air-tight. All of the gas unions were not sitting properly in them, resulting in potential leaks and verging on unsafe I guess. Existing LPG Pipework was too long with kinks everywhere - a real mess. We resolved this by fitting a completly different set of bagpipes, from my V6 LPG breaker. In the process, we considerably tidied up all of the gas hoses, shortening the excessively long ones to remove kinks, secured the ICV to the plenum, tightened up all of the hoses, and clips so it was all tidy, air/gas tight and totally secure.
3) Monkey had attacked the throttle bodies.
We also noticed on a previous occasion, that the reason for the high idle was that a monkey had forced a screw into the butterflies to keep them open. This resulted in an increase of about 700 rpm, and failed the emissions test at idle (naturally!). We resolved this simply by popping off the throttle bodies, and removing the screw! Hey presto, idle was where it should be.
4) Intermittent coolant leak fixed. Once we'd taken the plenum and inlets out, it was clear where it was coming from. Big split in the pipe from bridge to HBV! This was removed, and binned, following our re-plumb.
5) LPG idle problem!
At first, I was convinced it wouldn't idle on gas because not enough LPG was getting into the ICV, and the petrol injectors were turned off, hence the engine would be starved of fuel when the throttle bodies were shut, and hence die.
Turned out I was barking up the wrong tree though. After much head scratching and testing various things, we got to the bottom of the gas idle problem. When poking around the vaporisor, I saw that the earth for the gas solenoid wasn't making contact. Do'h! Reconnected this, and (following the replumb) it now idles like a song on gas, at the correct RPM. Result! We also filled the gas tank - didn't want to overlook the obvious (and I didn't trust the LED gauge), so had to eliminate no gas as a cause of bad running!
After doing this work and filling it up, A long test run on gas demonstrated no problems at all. No poor idling, and believe it or not, less hesitation on gas than my new sequential system. For a mixer, I'm really impressed with how well it's running on LPG. (Tunnie, your face was a picture at the BP garage, when you removed the gas pump and the excess gas came out with a whoosh ;D )
I feel that the connection of this earth is dodgey, so this will be soldered on the next visit.
Unfortunately, the problem with the lifter is still there. Listening to it, I'm pretty sure it's only one lifter. Now, Tunnie has done over 700 miles in this car, and it goes really well, so I personally am suspecting it's just an unfortunate lifter failure, rather than an oil pressure problem.
Our plans from here, are to strip the top end, all bar the heads, pop the cambelt and camshafts out, and remove the lifters. We can then check them out one by one, and replace any dodgey ones. I'm pretty sure the failed one is on the passenger bank. We're going to try and blag a couple of known good lifters from Mr DTM ;)
Once we have done this, Tunnie will have a very sweet running Facelift Elite 2.5 V6, with a perfectly working LPG conversion, and an almost full MOT.
From there, we just need to rectify a few very minor niggles, and the job's a goodun.
Otther issues to work on are the speedo being intermittent (resulting in loss of servotronic PAS), multirams (I can see one actuator is bust)... and a few little bits.
The EML is on, on petrol only. The only stored code is 46 (Air pump relay High voltage ) so will research this.
Although we have re-plumbed the cooling system, I have had to "bodge" a couple of pipes where we could not remove the T's (eg, block a couple of excess pipes with a bolt and jubilee clip ::) ) - to rectify this we need a couple of manufactuers pipes, as generic won't do. But this is a ten min fix and can be done when we strip it to get to the lifters.
I also noticed that the airbox is missing it's feed pipe, so it's taking in slightly warmer air than it usuall would from the intake at the front. So another little thing to tweak.
I think it's about time this project was put to bed, and I'm hoping for a few days off week after next, so Tunnie - I'll PM you some dates tomorrow and we'll take it from there.
There is now a lot of light at the end of the tunnel for this car, :y
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Btw I'm not sure I can do next weekend as I'm working nights, but I can probs do most other days, incl the weekend after. I really want to remain involved in finishing this off to a good result, so I hope we can sort something out :-?
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I have some known good ready cleaned lifters on the shelf......
As for the fault code....has somebody removed the air injection relay?
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Btw I'm not sure I can do next weekend as I'm working nights, but I can probs do most other days, incl the weekend after. I really want to remain involved in finishing this off to a good result, so I hope we can sort something out :-?
No problem mate, i maybe delivering a bed at the weekend!
Mark - Not as far as i know, unless Fin did? James was not too impressed at my high tech proposol to fix the EML light...... by err... Removing the blub! ;D ::)
I used project Elite to go to work this morning! ;D - Took forever to warm up, but i switched it over to gas when the temp was just under 80, switched over and ran great! :)
I must say driving an Auto in the morning to work, when I am in no mood for 'sprited' driving is a god send.
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Glad you 2 got alot of the problems sorted, James is one top notch guy for giving his time up to help forum members and this is what makes OOF the best in the world because its forum members are the best in the world Top Notch everyone :y :y
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Sounds good James & Mark
Will the 2.2 be up for sale soon?
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Sounds good James & Mark
Will the 2.2 be up for sale soon?
If i can get those bloody tappets to shut up then maybe! :-X
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Sounds good James & Mark
Will the 2.2 be up for sale soon?
If i can get those bloody tappets to shut up then maybe! :-X
easy enough to sort lifters bud !! ;D
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Sounds good James & Mark
Will the 2.2 be up for sale soon?
If i can get those bloody tappets to shut up then maybe! :-X
easy enough to sort lifters bud !! ;D
Indeed... it is the next job on the list!
Pleased it ran well for you this morning :)
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... and of course it would be silly to contemplate sorting out the lifters without a set of 3.0 cams to go in afterwards, wouldn't it?
Kevin
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... and of course it would be silly to contemplate sorting out the lifters without a set of 3.0 cams to go in afterwards, wouldn't it?
Kevin
Funny you should say that, I have a set of 3.0 cams - £99 to Tunnie ;D ;D ;D
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... and of course it would be silly to contemplate sorting out the lifters without a set of 3.0 cams to go in afterwards, wouldn't it?
Kevin
Funny you should say that, I have a set of 3.0 cams - £99 to Tunnie ;D ;D ;D
hummmm.... i heard someone who fitted them got crap mpg afterwards? do 3.0 cams make it more thirsty than a normal 3.0?
Not that i care cause it runs on gas ;D
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... and of course it would be silly to contemplate sorting out the lifters without a set of 3.0 cams to go in afterwards, wouldn't it?
Kevin
Funny you should say that, I have a set of 3.0 cams - £99 to Tunnie ;D ;D ;D
hummmm.... i heard someone who fitted them got crap mpg afterwards? do 3.0 cams make it more thirsty than a normal 3.0?
Not that i care cause it runs on gas ;D
You big girl...
You're
A) worried about MPG with a 2.5 with a higher cam lift - yet you only want a 3.2?
B) Banging on about a marginal drop in MPG when you get half price fuel?
Sodya, I'll stick them in my CDX.... ;D ;D ;D
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... and of course it would be silly to contemplate sorting out the lifters without a set of 3.0 cams to go in afterwards, wouldn't it?
Kevin
Funny you should say that, I have a set of 3.0 cams - £99 to Tunnie ;D ;D ;D
hummmm.... i heard someone who fitted them got crap mpg afterwards? do 3.0 cams make it more thirsty than a normal 3.0?
Not that i care cause it runs on gas ;D
Are you now thinking of keeping it?, i thought that it was just a Project??
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... and of course it would be silly to contemplate sorting out the lifters without a set of 3.0 cams to go in afterwards, wouldn't it?
Kevin
Funny you should say that, I have a set of 3.0 cams - £99 to Tunnie ;D ;D ;D
hummmm.... i heard someone who fitted them got crap mpg afterwards? do 3.0 cams make it more thirsty than a normal 3.0?
Not that i care cause it runs on gas ;D
Are you now thinking of keeping it?, i thought that it was just a Project??
You Watch, he'll keep it, when we've got it running sweet ;)
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... and of course it would be silly to contemplate sorting out the lifters without a set of 3.0 cams to go in afterwards, wouldn't it?
Kevin
Funny you should say that, I have a set of 3.0 cams - £99 to Tunnie ;D ;D ;D
hummmm.... i heard someone who fitted them got crap mpg afterwards? do 3.0 cams make it more thirsty than a normal 3.0?
Not that i care cause it runs on gas ;D
You big girl...
You're
A) worried about MPG with a 2.5 with a higher cam lift - yet you only want a 3.2?
B) Banging on about a marginal drop in MPG when you get half price fuel?
Sodya, I'll stick them in my CDX.... ;D ;D ;D
lol.... i heard someone, can't remember where was getting no higher than 17mpg with 3.0 cams in... which is still fine on gas, but I can easily get 27 mpg on a standard 3.2....
Of course i feel we should test the 3.0 cams on my 'project car' ;D be sin not to, since the standard cams are out ;)
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ragging it to your place and back yesterday, and over to Bicester, I got 18mpg on gas - I ran out on the way back when I reached newport, which meant it got treated to about 12 miles on petrol!!
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ragging it to your place and back yesterday, and over to Bicester, I got 18mpg on gas - I ran out on the way back when I reached newport, which meant it got treated to about 12 miles on petrol!!
I am going to BP on the way back tonight, put £10 of petrol in, having the fuel light on is a tad low i think incase of gas problems.
Going to tank up the gas again, reset the trip, use it till friday and work out the mpg :y
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Go and talk nicely to TB, for a gearbox flash :)
Also, before the next session on the car, try and get
A) Hose from header tank to big transfer pipe
B) Hose from bottom of heater Matrix
We can remove my bodges, then ;D
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Sounds like you guys are having loads of fun.
Loads of work has been done, i dont blame Tunnie for wanting to keep it :y
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but I can easily get 27 mpg on a standard 3.2....
Indeed you can, but only if you never use any of the extra power anyway and don't venture into towns. Even then, I think this time of year you'd struggle to average 27 except on 100% motorways and main roads.
Kevin
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I agree, 27mpg out of a 3.2 is ambitious. This time of year, I'm only getting 23mpg. Bloody great fun though - I'd forgotten how much fun it can be with the TC off :-X
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I agree, 27mpg out of a 3.2 is ambitious. This time of year, I'm only getting 23mpg. Bloody great fun though - I'd forgotten how much fun it can be with the TC off :-X
Was being a good boy today and thought I'd get home with an average over 30 on the MID. Then a road was closed and I was "forced" to cane it along a few deserted back roads rather than plod along a "B" road at 50. Back to 24 MPG then. Such is life. ;)
Kevin
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22MPG just lately for me... I must stop booting it up the hill and passing everyone going home from work.... It's a V6 thing, has to be done
most of the time occasionally. 8-)
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23 for me, but that was because I am so used to buying tyres in Feb, I feel I need to wear my virtually new rears down quickly....