Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Erzy on 20 May 2010, 17:59:35
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Hi guys hope you can offer me some advice on the probable causes for my 2.2 lumpy idle on start-up. Even after being sat in the sun my car idles lumpy when i start it up, the engine is much louder ( a bit blowey ) and there is a slight delay when i press the peddle before the revs increase and it nearly dies when i take my foot off ? There are no fault codes and if i take it for a drive and then re-start it it's as good as :o I'm puzzled - please help !!
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are you sure there are no codes stored? what are you using to read them?
Is coolant level ok, thats not dropping?
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Cheers Tunnie, coolant level is fine had HG done three weeks ago - problem was there before. Friend of mine runs a garage and read the codes for me live data etc... said all is well, then as it had been running for a while it was fine again when i picked it up.
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At the risk of this being seen as a foible of mine, turn the ignition off, disconnect the MAF connector (in the air trunking between air filter and throttle body) and start her up. If she idles better with the MAF disconnected then you need a new MAF. See if that helps. The least it will do is confirm one way or the other if the MAF is playing silly beggars. Also check the air trunking for leaks,specially on the underside. Unmetered air after the MAF can cause your symptoms. HTH :y
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I shall try this in morning as i am currently at work. Will unplugging the MAF cause my eml light to stick on again ? And also if its a faulty Maf should'nt i already have a fault code ? Thanks for the advise :y
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Unplugging the MAF will cause a light, a failed/failing MAF doesn't always bring up the light.
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Hi Erzy
I have exactly the same problem. No warning light and a very lumpy idle at start up with a non responsive throttle, this last for about 10 seconds then seems fine.
I have recently had a new H/G and manifold. Also had new Maf sensor replaced. Still having the same problems though.
i have a 2.2 cdx estate.
any help would be great.
Ronnic
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Hi folks,
Mine exactly the same,from overnight cold start its not too lumpy,slight stutter only.
Go do the school run,park it up. Go back out in it either 1 hour or 4 hours later very lumpy.....
Now when i get it to rev,i get a puff of black smoke....?
I was thinking something to do with the cold start?
Any help would be great,its starting to pee me off ever so slightly
No codes stored either
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OK so there are at least three of us OOFers with this problem then. Any experienced chaps out there had same problem and got it sorted.
I unplugged the MAF and it seemed alright, tried it with a spare MAF and it seemed slightly worse so i've the original on again, tightened up jubilees on breather hoses etc.... But its still there warmstart, erratic idle, non-responsive throttle , sounds shocking and then after a while it sorts itself out ? Anyone else think its worse when the car has been sat in the heat ?? :-/
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Mine is irratic,it can happen parked in the shade where its cool or can be parked in the heat,still does it either way.
Can some of the experts on here please help! I'm heading to the 'box of matches' stage with this!
>:( :D
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Anyone?
Please! :)
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have either of you unplugged the MAF to see what happens?
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Hi Tunnie,i haven't no,but will try it later today.
Someone above has had a new one fitted and its still the same i think
Thanks for the reply :y
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on the 2litre Omega's the idle control valve used to screw up idling if it was gummed up. i don't supose it could be something to do with the throttle body breathers ?.
Ken
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Erzy - at the risk of "jumping on the bandwagon", lets make that 4 OOFers.
For about the last week or so, I'm experiencing exactly the same symptoms as you.
I've had a trawl through previous postings and have discovered a "How To" for the Idle Control valve that Ken T mentioned above. I just haven't got round to doing it yet.
Work commitments are taking all of my time at the moment and, I suppose, the car runs fine after the first ten seconds or so. Will need to attend to it sooner rather than later though.
If you establish another cause before I have a go, could you let us all know. ;)
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When I had the MAF off one of the things I noticed was that there was a small amount of oil in the plastic hose ( the baffled one between MAF and Throttle body ) how clean/dry is this meant to be ? When i had my HG done i asked for the breathers to be cleaned out aswell, new throttle body gasket etc.. this is only a few weeks back. :-?
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Erzy,mine is the same,a slight covering
Right, ran it normally then unplugged MAF and ran it again,no noticeable change to anything
>:( :(
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Right nice one, so we thinks no probs with our MAF sensors ? So problem could be gunked-up breathers, anyone know how clean/dry these large bore pipes should be ? Like i say garage cleaned breathers comp. only few weeks back.
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I dont know anymore mate,but its p*ssing me off big time
I'm actually seriously considering getting rid of the car
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I know what you mean Iain. Sick of everyone staring at it like its a tank when i first start it. So frustrating, thought there would be an obvious fix. Looks like i'm stuck with it though - no money after new Cyl.head, new HG etc... Lets hope someone can help us poor ( non V6 ) owners ??? :'(
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Listen lads, & take everything I say with a pinch of salt as i'm a bit pissed as I write this! I have experienced everything you are now going through and can only speak as I found? The first 'Port of Call' is the Cam Sensor! Easy fix & not too expensive, especially if you can get one second hand from a 'breaker' on here! The next 'Port of call' is the dreaded Crank Sensor! Again. cheapest fix is a guy with one for sale on here, but an absolute PITA to replace! Both these sensors account for the majority of fault codes & uneven running on the 2.0 + 2.2 Omega! Good Luck in your endeavours to solve your problems!
& apolologies for any alcohol induiced smelling mistakes! ;D :y
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Cheers philrich, a proud Englishman. So either of these two sensors can be on their way out and there won't be any codes stored/eml lights? Oh and also my good friend, are the plastic breather tubes after the air filter supposed to be bone dry?
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Anyone else help us 2.2 owners :-[
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Hmm air/fuel mixture problems possibly.
Can any one of you guys get real time data and maybe try to compare it with each other or mine if needed?
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Gosh...i have been having the same problem for the last 3 months or so. It actually started after the miggy consumed some dodgy fuel. I had the tank cleaned and petrol filter replaced. But it did not make any difference.
I listened to advice here and changed MAF sensor ..again no difference.
I changed the CRANK SENSOR with a brand new GM one again no difference.
I have also changed the CAM SENSOR with a brand new GM one....still did not make a difference.
I took to the local dealers here with TECH II......no fault codes. The car was there for 5 days and they fiddled with everything including injector nozzles, still no joy.
I replaced the engine temprature sensor and switch 2 days ago still no joy.
I now have a mechanic who is suggesting i get IRIDIUM spark plus becuase the ones i have do not seem to spark properly!! I have ordered them from ebay an will advice once fitted.
Oh did i mention that i also changed the coil back and fitted a brand new bosch one?????
At least on the brighter side my car only plays up in the morning for about 30 seconds and you have to turn the key a few times. After it warms up it runs perfect the whole day!!!!
It would be great if we could find a solution to this problem affecting the 2.2's
From my experience with these problem i would suggested you go about changing parts especially if you have to buy them. Luckily for me as i am at the other end of the world i had stocked up on the parts that are mostly likely to fail (Cam,crank,maf,coil pack etc)
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Did any o you guys tried to use injector cleaners and engine cleaners. I also had my engine partially rebuilt but had no problems like this. (although I use cleaners regulary and give a mig a blast on open roads relatively often)
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i'm sick of mine! its really getting on my t*ts now >:(
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Just a thought, feel under the scuttle, is it damp?
Could be water getting onto the coil pack connector at the back of the engine.
If it is damp, then the bottom rubber windscreen seal needs re-seating and sealing.
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Hello Guys
I went through this a few weeks ago, fitted new plugs,changed coil pack no better, unplugged maf sensor no change, fitted rear exhaust still no better but noisier than the one the idiots at the exhaust place knocked a hole in.
Then after trawling the forum I decided to risk a dealer MAF sensor 114 squids. Immediate cure, seemingly the ebay ones are not always worth the hassel.
Its a pity I dont live near you guys it would be easy to swap the new one to establish if it was the maf or not.
Good luck happy hunting I was also ready to get rid of the car.
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Iain and ronnic, any joy yet lads ? So are the large bore plastic pipes either side of the maf supposed to be bone dry?? , like I said garage did breathers few weeks back so how comes there is oil in there.Do I need to clean breathers again along with butterfly valve and gasket etc.... :-/
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There shouldn't be any oil in the inlet pipes. The breathers will need a good clean and dry out the inlet pipes.
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If I have understood your problem correctly your lumpy idle problem is on cold start up only and from symptoms, again if I've understood correctly dissapears when the system goes closed loop and the lambdas take over, which only takes a minute or two. I still favour the the MAF as the culprit, air trunking leak or both. Did you try from cold start with the MAF disconnected? ie; after overnight stand. This test is a no cost option so humour me. I also agree with a previous poster check your skuttle for dampness and I would also check the plug wells for oil or water. After market MAFs are a waste of money, I have the T shirt to prove it, mine lasted a week. It is possible to source an OE MAF for about £65, but you need to make sure they are what they're advertised to be. Don't bin the car for a niggling problem. I chased similar issues around my mig' for weeks and it was help and advice from the guys on this forum that now sees my car running as sweet as a nut' and a joy to drive.
Good luck guys
VC :y
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Cheers Welung666, like i said small amount of oil in the large baffled pipe after maf, this is the only one i checked. Which are the breathers, the inlet pipes and outlet pipes ? It's all new to me ! Should they all be bone dry- sorry for being a pain but i thought that paying to have it done would leave the mig running great :-/
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Fitted new iridium plugs (Denso mmake ) and the car improved slight. I suuppose because the iridium are perfomance plugs. Same sympton still persists.
I have now decided to buy a brand new MAF. Which of the two is better (Siemens or Bosch). I have wasted too much time and effort on tryinng to fix the car and maybe my problem is the cheap MAF i bought from ebay >:(. I will advice after fitting new MAF.
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Hi Kumo'
I bought my 'genuine' OE MAF from these guys (see link).
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190307134070
I made a point of checking with them first that it was a genuine OE MAF and they assurred me it was. My first go at buying a cheap MAF off Ebay got me a replacement that had what appeared to be resistors in place of the original genuine platinum wires. That lasted a week and cost me £35. (no great surprise if you subscribe to the view "you gets what you pay for"). My local stealer wanted £112 for a GM supplied Siemens replacement.
I bought my second MAF £65, a Siemens, but this had puka platinum wires inside, and this has been working fine for several months since I fitted it. I remember from your previous posts that disconnecting the MAF made your car run better on cold start up, which suggests to me you were on the right track.. All the symptoms so far on this thread including lumpy idle and hesitation when pressing the gas pedal are typicaly MAF related, but could be aggravated by water/oil in plug wells. The problem with modern engine management systems is everything is inter dependant, and often faults codes occur in one area which are caused by dodgy signals from elsewhere.
Always in my view worth Googling " Diagnosing MAF problems video" on the internet. You will be surprised to find just how much info' is out there.
I spent a lot of time leaning over my engine and not a few pennies in the process to get my Mig' sorted, but I did learn a lot.
HTH
VC :)
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Hi Kumo'
I bought my 'genuine' OE MAF from these guys (see link).
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190307134070
I made a point of checking with them first that it was a genuine OE MAF and they assurred me it was. My first go at buying a cheap MAF off Ebay got me a replacement that had what appeared to be resistors in place of the original genuine platinum wires. That lasted a week and cost me £35. (no great surprise if you subscribe to the view "you gets what you pay for"). My local stealer wanted £112 for a GM supplied Siemens replacement.
I bought my second MAF £65, a Siemens, but this had puka platinum wires inside, and this has been working fine for several months since I fitted it. I remember from your previous posts that disconnecting the MAF made your car run better on cold start up, which suggests to me you were on the right track.. All the symptoms so far on this thread including lumpy idle and hesitation when pressing the gas pedal are typicaly MAF related, but could be aggravated by water/oil in plug wells. The problem with modern engine management systems is everything is inter dependant, and often faults codes occur in one area which are caused by dodgy signals from elsewhere.
Always in my view worth Googling " Diagnosing MAF problems video" on the internet. You will be surprised to find just how much info' is out there.
I spent a lot of time leaning over my engine and not a few pennies in the process to get my Mig' sorted, but I did learn a lot.
HTH
VC :)
Thanks vic, got the MAF and hopefully will sort out the problem
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Sorry Erz, I've been watching the forum but still no miricle cure. I'm reluctant to spend even more money on this car until I can be certain of an imediate cure.
Car still lumpy when started from cold but once going it seems to be ok. Taking it to France on Friday so I hope to god it doesn't decided to go sick again while I'm there :(
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Listen lads, & take everything I say with a pinch of salt as i'm a bit pissed as I write this! I have experienced everything you are now going through and can only speak as I found? The first 'Port of Call' is the Cam Sensor! Easy fix & not too expensive, especially if you can get one second hand from a 'breaker' on here! The next 'Port of call' is the dreaded Crank Sensor! Again. cheapest fix is a guy with one for sale on here, but an absolute PITA to replace! Both these sensors account for the majority of fault codes & uneven running on the 2.0 + 2.2 Omega! Good Luck in your endeavours to solve your problems!
& apolologies for any alcohol induiced smelling mistakes! ;D :y
I have one for a 2.2 if interested pm me - part number 9148306 and genuine vx one
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Listen lads, & take everything I say with a pinch of salt as i'm a bit pissed as I write this! I have experienced everything you are now going through and can only speak as I found? The first 'Port of Call' is the Cam Sensor! Easy fix & not too expensive, especially if you can get one second hand from a 'breaker' on here! The next 'Port of call' is the dreaded Crank Sensor! Again. cheapest fix is a guy with one for sale on here, but an absolute PITA to replace! Both these sensors account for the majority of fault codes & uneven running on the 2.0 + 2.2 Omega! Good Luck in your endeavours to solve your problems!
& apolologies for any alcohol induiced smelling mistakes! ;D :y
I have one for a 2.2 if interested pm me - part number 9148306 and genuine vx one
Crank sensors rarely fail on 2.0/2.2's, if it is failing, then it would show up as a fault code.