Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Will B on 14 June 2010, 23:12:57

Title: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: Will B on 14 June 2010, 23:12:57
Hi all

How often do you guys recommend to change the oil in my auto transmission? as when I bought the car the service history said nothing about having it done? or the interval it should be done at.

also where is a good place to source new fluid?

cheers   
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: feeutfo on 15 June 2010, 01:27:02
60 to 80k acording to oof recomended service schedules in faq(?) i think. Sooner rather than later if its done a lot of towing.

Fuchs titan 4000 (dexron 3) from a factors, german and swedish stock fuchs oils round these parts. But any half decent dex3 atf will do the job, its all made to the same spec anyway.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: sjc on 15 June 2010, 09:28:03
Just make sure you get everything you need (gaskets, filter & oil) before you start.  Also be prepared for the old gaskets to have super-glued themselves in place meaning that you have to scrape them off the mating faces of the box and sumps.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: sjc on 15 June 2010, 09:41:22
Oh, and also...

If you get a big can of oil (instead of several small ones with the fill tubes on them) then the easiest way to get it into the box is to use a length of small diameter hose and a suitable funnel running from the engine bay into the box.  Fuel hose does the trick nicely.

Feed the hose down from the back of the engine bay towards the box, go underneath and pop the end into the filler hole just enough so the oil will go in and cable tie it up so it won't fall out and keeping it off of the exhaust - as the guide says, you'll need to have the engine running for the final top-up.  Attach your funnel to the end in the engine bay, again, I use a couple of cable ties to support the combined weight of the hose and the funnel full of oil.  Ideally you don't want the hose to be lower than the filler hole anywhere along it's length.  Now smile smugly as you fill it without it half of it running down your arm!
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: kcl on 15 June 2010, 09:51:34
Is there any need to move the car during the operation? My plan is to put the car on some pallets to get it higher, 3-4 pallets under each wheel should give enough room and the car would be level to ensure correct oil level etc.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: sjc on 15 June 2010, 09:59:41
Quote
Is there any need to move the car during the operation? My plan is to put the car on some pallets to get it higher, 3-4 pallets under each wheel should give enough room and the car would be level to ensure correct oil level etc.
Not at all sure that sounds safe... but, no, there's no need to move the car, however, strictly speaking you should take it for a short run afterwards then re-check the level with the engine still running.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: kcl on 15 June 2010, 10:16:25
What is the unsafe part of that? A pallet can easily carry a load of one ton. Far more reliable than jack or axle stands and plus easier to get the car high enough.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 15 June 2010, 10:30:08
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What is the unsafe part of that? A pallet can easily carry a load of one ton. Far more reliable than jack or axle stands and plus easier to get the car high enough.

It might take a ton evenly distributed over its' surface but a car sits on a pretty small contact patch. I would favour axle stands.

The other factor is that you need to car level to fill the auto box, although you could fill it while jacked up, drop it down to let any excess drain out, and then jack it back up to put the plug back in (all with the engine idling, of course).

Kevin
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: sjc on 15 June 2010, 10:33:20
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What is the unsafe part of that? A pallet can easily carry a load of one ton. Far more reliable than jack or axle stands and plus easier to get the car high enough.

But is that not a ton spread across the whole pallet rather than a 6 sq/in patch?

I was simply thinking that the tyre would go straight through the planks but I can't say I've tried it myself.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: sjc on 15 June 2010, 10:34:26
Beat me to it.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: Cliffo B on 15 June 2010, 10:38:53
Don't forget proper level is made with car level and engine running just thought I'd mention :y :y
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: kcl on 15 June 2010, 11:11:31
Ok, point taken and will have to find high enough axle stands... or put some 2"x6" under the wheels...

Yes, the car will be level when all wheels are on the pallets.

Axle stands: running the car with rear wheels off the ground (assuming stands are under the donut bushes) will harm the drive shafts... :-?
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: sjc on 15 June 2010, 11:18:43
Quote
Ok, point taken and will have to find high enough axle stands... or put some 2"x6" under the wheels...

Yes, the car will be level when all wheels are on the pallets.

Axle stands: running the car with rear wheels off the ground (assuming stands are under the donut bushes) will harm the drive shafts... :-?

I have a set of home-made ramps made out of 2" x 8" layered to create a slope on one side - much less gradient that standard metal ones which is great for lowered cars  ;)

If you're worried about the rears turning while off the ground, leave the handbrake on.

You do all this with it in Park anyway mate.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 15 June 2010, 11:24:02
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I have a set of home-made ramps made out of 2" x 8" layered to create a slope on one side - much less gradient that standard metal ones which is great for lowered cars  ;)

If you're worried about the rears turning while off the ground, leave the handbrake on.

You do all this with it in Park anyway mate.

Agreed. In fact, I doubt it would harm the drive shafts. It is good practice to run the box through all gear positions before checking the level to ensure it is fully "bled".

Kevin
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 15 June 2010, 11:28:27
Why is there no drain plug??  :-/  and could the sump be drilled and a sump plug fitted??  ::)
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: sjc on 15 June 2010, 11:33:29
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Why is there no drain plug??  :-/  and could the sump be drilled and a sump plug fitted??  ::)
Because GM reckon it's sealed for life.

And, yes, I've heard of others putting a plug in but only really worth it if you're keeping the car for another 60k.

Personally, I can't wait til I have the pennies for the last piece in my auto to manual conversion kit.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: sjc on 15 June 2010, 11:35:25
Actually... did the auto box on the Carltons and Senators not have a drain plug?

It's the same box isn't it?  Swappsy the sump?
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: Shackeng on 15 June 2010, 15:58:55
Mine has two sumps.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: sjc on 15 June 2010, 16:09:51
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Mine has two sumps.

Yeah, they all do but only the main sump on the Carlton/Senator boxes had a drain plug.

You don't really have to empty the smaller sump but if the old fluid is bad then you're better to.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: Shackeng on 15 June 2010, 19:08:51
Just done mine - both- but thought at the time that drain plugs would be handy. Trouble :y is, they would, if fitted in the base, be open to impact damage, and the sump base is fairly thin.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: sjc on 16 June 2010, 09:10:09
Quote
Just done mine - both- but thought at the time that drain plugs would be handy. Trouble :y is, they would, if fitted in the base, be open to impact damage, and the sump base is fairly thin.

Looking at pictures of the Carlton/Senator auto sump, it's an alloy one and the drain plug is recessed so that it won't catch anything.  You could probably put one on the side of the sump as close to the bottom edge as possible.  Maybe at the rear would be best then you can lift the car at the front only to drain as much as poss, then lift the back up to bring it level for filling.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: sjc on 16 June 2010, 09:15:13
Oh, and the Carlton/Senator sump has a hole in the side for the oil cooler return pipe so I'd doubt that a straight swap would be an option.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: Shackeng on 16 June 2010, 17:27:50
Quote
Oh, and the Carlton/Senator sump has a hole in the side for the oil cooler return pipe so I'd doubt that a straight swap would be an option.

Could be blanked maybe, and I like the recessed plug.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: kcl on 23 June 2010, 11:17:06
Changed the oil last night and the warnings I've read about getting covered with oil were correct... Now there's ATF all over the place :)

I could not find the correct torque values here so I checked TIS and it said:
- oil pan screws 12 Nm
- level plug (hex bolt head) 30-40 Nm

I forgot to torque up the filter, I just put it carefully tight by hand.

One thing I-m not sure about is the quantity of oil. I think I got out around 5-6 litres (yes, I spilled some...) and was able to use 5,8 litres of new oil (and again, yes, some was spilled... on the ground, on me, on all the tools...). How much people have usually been able to fill?

The old oil was quite dark in colour. Also I found greyish sludge in both sumps, esp. in the front one. and the magnet was really dirty with the same grey sludge. No metal chips, no thrust washer.

The job is not difficult in any measure but it is extremely fiddly and awkward, I'd say the most uncomfortable job I know on Omegas. Oil will get literally everywhere.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 23 June 2010, 11:35:03
Quote
Changed the oil last night and the warnings I've read about getting covered with oil were correct... Now there's ATF all over the place :)

I could not find the correct torque values here so I checked TIS and it said:
- oil pan screws 12 Nm
- level plug (hex bolt head) 30-40 Nm

I forgot to torque up the filter, I just put it carefully tight by hand.

One thing I-m not sure about is the quantity of oil. I think I got out around 5-6 litres (yes, I spilled some...) and was able to use 5,8 litres of new oil (and again, yes, some was spilled... on the ground, on me, on all the tools...). How much people have usually been able to fill?

The old oil was quite dark in colour. Also I found greyish sludge in both sumps, esp. in the front one. and the magnet was really dirty with the same grey sludge. No metal chips, no thrust washer.

The job is not difficult in any measure but it is extremely fiddly and awkward, I'd say the most uncomfortable job I know on Omegas. Oil will get literally everywhere.

Sounds about right to me. The sludge and metal filings are a result of wear in the box and are normal. Sounds like it was ready for a change. :y

Kevin
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: sjc on 23 June 2010, 11:45:09
Think I got about 5½ litres in when I did mine.

The worst bit of getting covered in the old ATF is that it stinks like crazy and it's more a difficult smell to get rid of than petrol on your hands.
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: kcl on 23 June 2010, 12:14:20
I got only covered by the new atf, the old one went nicely to waste oil buckets and can. But filling was a nightmare, I had a syringe (which naturally leaked from both ends  >:( ) and had to crawl under the car quite a few times.

Once again, tools needed:
- 10 mm socket with short extension, 1/4" or 3/8", 1/2" is too big
- 13 mm wrench for plug (no room for a socket due to lambda wire)
- 13 mm socket (here you can use also the 1/2" set) for filter
- plastic mallet (to release the larger sump from gasket). the smaller one fell off after screws were opened.
- small torque wrench
- do not forget to replace the plug copper washer!
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 23 June 2010, 12:18:43
The best device for filling autoboxes is a cheap "killaspray" type garden sprayer with the spray lance removed and a length of copper microbore pipe inserted, and shaped into a hook at the end. You can just have a cup of tea while you sit and watch it fill. ;)

Kevin
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: kcl on 23 June 2010, 12:24:22
Yes, I planned to use a killaspray but forgot to purchase one and did not want to use the uber-reliable Gloria one I have... Now, if I had the choice, I would definately use the expensive Gloria spray... well, it's done now... And now I have only one issue left: the smoking.... heads off I guess, but that's another story...
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: sjc on 23 June 2010, 12:29:12
Quote
Yes, I planned to use a killaspray but forgot to purchase one and did not want to use the uber-reliable Gloria one I have... Now, if I had the choice, I would definately use the expensive Gloria spray... well, it's done now... And now I have only one issue left: the smoking.... heads off I guess, but that's another story...
Sounds a bit drastic, could you not try Nicorette first?
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: kcl on 23 June 2010, 12:41:59
 ;D ;D ;D Nice one... But I meant the Omega is smoking and that has to be stopped... I will not!  :y
Title: Re: Autobox fluid change??
Post by: Shackeng on 27 June 2010, 11:32:57
Quote
The best device for filling autoboxes is a cheap "killaspray" type garden sprayer with the spray lance removed and a length of copper microbore pipe inserted, and shaped into a hook at the end. You can just have a cup of tea while you sit and watch it fill. ;)

Kevin


I used an old one of these, which I have modified to take a schrader valve instead of the hand pump - saves energy when spraying trees etc.- it worked a treat. :y