Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: russy on 01 February 2010, 14:38:08
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Hi aLL
just bought an omega 2.2 petrol 52 plate love the car but wish now i had never seen it no heater have had new head gasket fitted plus skimmed new 3 way flow valve new thermastat cost 1000.00 pound still no heater need help all garages can do is suggest then say sorry no faults showing in diagnostic check by aa or garages any suggestions.
Russ :D
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try flushing the heater rad and then refil as per intructions on here worked a treat on mine. also if you clamp the hoses you wil not lose much of your new antifreeze.
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I also soaked mine in some kettle descaler which helped. Although I think that, once they're clogged, there's not a lot can be done with them.
There's a How-To guide here somewhere which shows getting the matrix out through a hole cut in the trim. If I've still got my Miggy next winter that's what I'll be having a go at!
In addition to clamping the hoses I syphoned the coolant out into a bucket. Caught nearly all of it!
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1000 quid for a headgasket change on a 4 pot....kin ell, I am very much in the wrong buisness.....
Also check they have connected the bypass valve correctly.
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Where abouts are you Russ? Maybe someone local could help I will if I'm close enough ;) :y
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Any one in the north east aibale to help purchased 2.2 pettol 52 plate no heater had fitted new coil 110.00cylinder head gasget skim 625.00 new 3 way valve 75.00 new thermastat etc 120.00 no heat driving me mad as cant use car late in day early mornings because of visual problems contact number 01670505 166 drove the 3.5 as police officer should of bought that model maby never let me down appreciate any help willing to pay for remedy believe the matrix requires flushing mayswell speak chinese to me/
Russ.
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Have a read of this mate, fairly straightforward http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1263473441
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Where in the NE are you Russ? I'll be in Lincoln week after next if you fancy a run down?
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Any one in the north east aibale to help purchased 2.2 pettol 52 plate no heater had fitted new coil 110.00cylinder head gasget skim 625.00 new 3 way valve 75.00 new thermastat etc 120.00 no heat driving me mad as cant use car late in day early mornings because of visual problems contact number 01670505 166 drove the 3.5 as police officer should of bought that model maby never let me down appreciate any help willing to pay for remedy believe the matrix requires flushing mayswell speak chinese to me/
Russ.
£120 for a thermostat on a 4 pot? It only costs £40, and its a 30 min job!
I would remove your number, its not wise posting that on a public forum, ask people to PM you for your number :y
Need to check the fitted the HBV the right way around, and no air locks in the heater matrix :y
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where are you mate ?
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where are you mate ?
Looking at his phone number I would say he was somewhere around the morpeth area.
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Welcome to the OOF, next time ask before you rush into anything if you are not sure of what to do. £1000.00 for that amount of work?. :D I was definitely in the wrong trade if this was/is the going rate for those jobs.
I really do feel your pain. They really took you for a ride pal and probably hope you will be back for more of their 'expertise'. Tell us you won't be going back please!
Firstly find yourself another garage! There are plenty of guys here on the OOF that will help you and even travel to you by arrangement. You can be certain of a fair deal and no rip offs too.
Hope you do get it sorted but do try a reverse flush job yourself as it is an easy job and is well explained in the maintenance guides section.
GudLuk
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Thanks Guys for all your help, still no heater though however shall try to find a garage to fl;ush matrix system, would be great if some one perhaps as one suggested on the oof whatever that is could make contact or perhaps one of you guys could reccomend some one ,ready to go to B/Q for a rope .
Russ.
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Thanks Guys for all your help, still no heater though however shall try to find a garage to fl;ush matrix system, would be great if some one perhaps as one suggested on the oof whatever that is could make contact or perhaps one of you guys could reccomend some one ,ready to go to B/Q for a rope .
Russ.
I did offer ::) Closest I can get though is Lincoln, week starting 15th feb.
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Thanks Wellung 666 help appreciated however Lincoln is a long way from Morpeth to have car looked at, need it fixing
Russ.
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Hi Guys any more suggestions had matrix /also radiator flushed loads of crap oily stuff came out thermorstat working purfectly 3 way valve blead heater worked for 10 minutes and now does not work again all controls purfect another 100.00 in the bin ,any suggestions.
Russ.
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Hiya Russ, have you checked that the vacuum pipe is properly attached to the top of the HBV (Heater Byepass Valve)? You call it the 3 way valve. Also to properly bleed air from the cooling system you should remove the coolant bottle cap when the engine is cold & run the engine until it heats up, periodically squeezing the top & bottom radiator pipes to 'burp' any air out of the system. When the water is hot you replace the bottle cap. You may need to do this on more than one occassion.
Also, just a thought.... are the air vents cold on either side of the car & in the back, regardless of what settings are on the heating? Let us know how you get on with it. I can't help in person at the moment, my head gasket has gone & the car is in a million bits on the drive LOL :y
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Thanks for that shall gove it a go but now feeling totaly p----- off there is some heat in the cabin though but not really hot.
Russ.
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Im sure this isnt the case but thought Id say it any way ::) I spent over £500 on trying to sort my heater out on the petrol estate. But it still never worked 95% of the time. It also felt a bit funny to drive :-? Thats when I joined oof and after hours of reading I came across a post on fuses. When I checked power steering and heater were on the same one, so changed the fuse and the heater has worked 100% since then. Shame the rest of the car isnt the same :D :D :D worth a try :y
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Thanks for that shall give it a a try.
Russ.
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Hi All do you think it could be my water pump.
Russ.
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Hi russy, Like you i have just bought a 2001 2.2cd auto with simmilar problem! it turned out it was the water pump impeler broken caused of some numpty bypassing heater matrix because of leek & not replacing antifreeze! Had it replaced along with timing belt £135 all in, it runs great now but cabin fills with steam when it reaches temp :'(so now need to replace matrix! Easy way to check pump is if top of engine gets hot & bottom stays cold :y
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hi was the 135.00 cost from garage main dealership or back street boy .
Russ.
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Hi not a main dealer,but no back street boy either! In any case just for your help in not being ripped off water pump cost £35+vat belt £30+vat the rest was labour charges.
Did you check if top hose hot & bottom cold? if it is! its gotta be worth trying :y
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Hi Guys.
Any further help outthere ref no heater /jobs done to sort new cylinder head /new thermostat and housing /new 3 way valve or whatever you guys want to call it /radiator flushed /matrix flushed loads uf crap came out top hose hot bottom hose hot radiator hot /inlet and outlet to matrix all hot but no heater although i have now a small amount of hot air /all controls working fan etc etc vehicle not overheating temparuture around 85/90 aa just recommend contact garage garage just keep giving meearly xmas presents called bills refused to pay last two.
Russ.
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Hiya Russ, does the heater give out more heat when you increase the engine speed to about 1500 RPM? :-?
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Hi no not to my knomledge no more heat at over 1500 revs
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I can only guess that given the symptoms Russ, you have a blocked heater matrix. I know you are getting water through it, so you will think i'm talking 'dangle berries', but the fact is the heat exchange pipes leading off the main waterway are so small they become choked with debris/limescale even though the main waterway allows a good flow through. Rather than go through the removal/fitting of the matrix, you may like to try a descaling solution first?
I have just done mine using 'Fernox' central heating descaler. You will only need a small tub. It is orange & looks just like sherbet!
1 - Remove the expansion tank cap & drain the coolant into a dish using the radiator drain tap (right hand side under front bumper, with a round, red handle)
2 - Close the radiator drain tap.
3 - Mix up the descaling solution in an old bucket or similar (use nothing you may use for cooking in or drinking from!!) using no more than 1 rounded tablespoon of descaler per litre of hot water. Any stronger solution may cause problems with thin wall aluminium.
4 - Pour the solution (approx. 5 to 6 litres) into the expansion tank slowly, until it stops filling and you still have a half empty tank ( you need this space to allow for the gas generated by the descaler) preferably using a funnel or lipped jug as you don't want it on your paintwork!
5 - Leave the expansion tank cap off and run the engine at idle speed until it reaches normal operating temperature with the cabin heating turned on to full heat. While it is warming up, squeeze the radiator & matrix hoses periodically to assist the removal of any air.
6- When the engine is at normal temperature, replace the tank cap and place an old towel or thick cloth over the tank to catch excess gas/descaler mist as it pressurises the system.
7- Now the important bit - you need to leave the engine idling for 30 minutes to 1 hour, and every 10 minutes or so, you must slacken off the expansion tank cap a little to release the excess pressure. BE CAREFUL, the liquid is scalding hot acid (albeit diluted) so make sure the towel/cloth fully covers the cap AND YOUR HAND!
8- After 30mins - 1hour you will see the liquid has got a lot darker and you can now turn off the engine & either wait until the engine cools before opening the radiator drain tap and emptying the descaler, or draining it hot WITH YOUR HAND & ARM SUITABLY PROTECTED!
9- You now need to put a hosepipe in the expansion tank and flush the system thoroughly with clean water several times. Fill the system with fresh water one last time and begin draining again, whilst at the same time filling up with the hose so you have a steady stream of fresh water in at the tank and out at the radiator drain. Now start the car and allow the water pump to circulate the water throughout the engine while it is draining. Keep this up for about 15 minutes, turn off the engine and water hose, allow the system to drain, close the radiator drain tap, refill the system with HALF the coolant you saved and top up with new neat coolant to maintain the 50/50 mix.
10 - Repeat the hose squeezing to help get rid of any air and run the car with the heating on full until it reaches temperature.
Hopefully, you should now have heat! If not....... :(
HTH, Regards, Phil. :y
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I can only guess that given the symptoms Russ, you have a blocked heater matrix. I know you are getting water through it, so you will think i'm talking 'dangle berries', but the fact is the heat exchange pipes leading off the main waterway are so small they become choked with debris/limescale even though the main waterway allows a good flow through. Rather than go through the removal/fitting of the matrix, you may like to try a descaling solution first?
I have just done mine using 'Fernox' central heating descaler. You will only need a small tub. It is orange & looks just like sherbet!
1 - Remove the expansion tank cap & drain the coolant into a dish using the radiator drain tap (right hand side under front bumper, with a round, red handle)
2 - Close the radiator drain tap.
3 - Mix up the descaling solution in an old bucket or similar (use nothing you may use for cooking in or drinking from!!) using no more than 1 rounded tablespoon of descaler per litre of hot water. Any stronger solution may cause problems with thin wall aluminium.
4 - Pour the solution (approx. 5 to 6 litres) into the expansion tank slowly, until it stops filling and you still have a half empty tank ( you need this space to allow for the gas generated by the descaler) preferably using a funnel or lipped jug as you don't want it on your paintwork!
5 - Leave the expansion tank cap off and run the engine at idle speed until it reaches normal operating temperature with the cabin heating turned on to full heat. While it is warming up, squeeze the radiator & matrix hoses periodically to assist the removal of any air.
6- When the engine is at normal temperature, replace the tank cap and place an old towel or thick cloth over the tank to catch excess gas/descaler mist as it pressurises the system.
7- Now the important bit - you need to leave the engine idling for 30 minutes to 1 hour, and every 10 minutes or so, you must slacken off the expansion tank cap a little to release the excess pressure. BE CAREFUL, the liquid is scalding hot acid (albeit diluted) so make sure the towel/cloth fully covers the cap AND YOUR HAND!
8- After 30mins - 1hour you will see the liquid has got a lot darker and you can now turn off the engine & either wait until the engine cools before opening the radiator drain tap and emptying the descaler, or draining it hot WITH YOUR HAND & ARM SUITABLY PROTECTED!
9- You now need to put a hosepipe in the expansion tank and flush the system thoroughly with clean water several times. Fill the system with fresh water one last time and begin draining again, whilst at the same time filling up with the hose so you have a steady stream of fresh water in at the tank and out at the radiator drain. Now start the car and allow the water pump to circulate the water throughout the engine while it is draining. Keep this up for about 15 minutes, turn off the engine and water hose, allow the system to drain, close the radiator drain tap, refill the system with HALF the coolant you saved and top up with new neat coolant to maintain the 50/50 mix.
10 - Repeat the hose squeezing to help get rid of any air and run the car with the heating on full until it reaches temperature.
Hopefully, you should now have heat! If not....... :(
HTH, Regards, Phil. :y
I would modify this procedure very slightly .... once you've flushed the system with cold water several times/or continuous as said, close the darin tap, fill with clean water and run the car up to temperature with the heater on full leave for 5 minutes. alow to cool, drain, repeat a couple of times.
The reason for this it to ensure the fernox is fully removed from the heater matrix as well as the rest of the system. Phil's way leaves the matrix "unflushed" IMHO ..
Just my thoughts .. nowt else .. :)
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But the system is constantly filling/draining with fresh water for 15minutes with engine running & heater on full Entwood. I found this more than enough to clear out any remaining descaler! I have just (yesterday) done exactly as described and believe me, I would not take any chances with my car and I was a gas service/heating engineer for most of my working life so descaling is 'in the blood' so to speak :y
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The question is Phil, are you sitting with a satisfied smile on your face and heat in the car, or is your matrix and engine sitting on the floor having disolved under the attack from scalding acid.
Elf and Safety will be scouring the countryside for shifty looking Omega owners clutching tins of orange sherbert!!
PS.. I shall be trying this at the weekend cos we don't have Elf & S in Peckham.
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Phil .. my reason is quite simple ... if you are flushing through constantly with a hose .. the water will be cold, so the thermostat will be closed. The water you flush with will clear the radiator and the main pipes very quickly, but with the thermostat closed as the system is "cold" the main engine block and the heater matrix, which are both "inside" the thermostat loop, will hardly get any water. By doing what I suggest the system runs to temperature, the thermostat opens, and the whole system has the water mixed ... so a couple of cycles of this and the system is clean.
Just my thoughts... nowt else .. :)
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Phil .. my reason is quite simple ... if you are flushing through constantly with a hose .. the water will be cold, so the thermostat will be closed. The water you flush with will clear the radiator and the main pipes very quickly, but with the thermostat closed as the system is "cold" the main engine block and the heater matrix, which are both "inside" the thermostat loop, will hardly get any water. By doing what I suggest the system runs to temperature, the thermostat opens, and the whole system has the water mixed ... so a couple of cycles of this and the system is clean.
Just my thoughts... nowt else .. :)
Quite right Entwood, I bow to your superior Intellect and Knowledge ;) ;D :y
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The question is Phil, are you sitting with a satisfied smile on your face and heat in the car, or is your matrix and engine sitting on the floor having disolved under the attack from scalding acid.
Elf and Safety will be scouring the countryside for shifty looking Omega owners clutching tins of orange sherbert!!
PS.. I shall be trying this at the weekend cos we don't have Elf & S in Peckham.
Car OK, all Aly bits OK, acid mix is designed to be safe at the described concentration :y
As for Elf n Shifty, we don't do it here, we use common sense ;D ;D :y
BTW, if you do have a go, bear in mind what Entwood says about the final flush, he's quite right :y
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Just an update to descaling the cooling system.
The cabin heat is now spot on!, the problem I had with occassional overheating into the red zone followed by the needle dropping to below 75deg. is now a thing of the past & the temperature behaves as it should now, thank goodness :D Also, the EML has gone off and STAYED OFF for two days now!!!! Before, it would come on for no discernable reason during a run and after I cleared the code (always P0170 Lean Exhaust) it would return on the next run. All problems now gone, hopefully never to return. I think the old girl is getting to like all the attention I am lavishing on her and repaying me for my efforts ;D
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Just an update to descaling the cooling system.
The cabin heat is now spot on!, the problem I had with occassional overheating into the red zone followed by the needle dropping to below 75deg. is now a thing of the past & the temperature behaves as it should now, thank goodness :D Also, the EML has gone off and STAYED OFF for two days now!!!! Before, it would come on for no discernable reason during a run and after I cleared the code (always P0170 Lean Exhaust) it would return on the next run. All problems now gone, hopefully never to return. I think the old girl is getting to like all the attention I am lavishing on her and repaying me for my efforts ;D
That's exactly the type of thing you should NEVER say when you've got an Omega, trust me ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Philrich.
How do you clear the codep0170 from the system, and any chance of a drive across to you to take a look at my heater problem.
Russ.
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Hi Philrich.
How do you clear the codep0170 from the system, and any chance of a drive across to you to take a look at my heater problem.
Russ.
Hi Russ, you could come to mine next Monday or Tuesday anytime after 10am? or failing that, we are having a meet of local members on the 28th at 12noon at 'The Windmill' , formerly the Dalton Lodge, on the Southbound A19 between Hartlepool & Billingham. PM me for contact details & arrange things? :y
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has anybody out there got a oxygen censor to fit a 2002 petrol 2 litre omega 4 wires that they can sell to me.
Russ Ward :)
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has anybody out there got a oxygen censor to fit a 2002 petrol 2 litre omega 4 wires that they can sell to me.
Russ Ward :)
This has been an interesting thread Russy - aside from your current request, can you tell us how you got on with the heater problem. Were you able to get it fixed? :y
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Hi Zulu77.
the omega baron philrich was great and worked on my car and the heater is now working i would say at 80% a great effort and a major improvement .
although now the car is lumpy when first started for about 1 minute i have had camshaft centre sensor replaced but no change and i believe it is the oxygen sensor with the help of the AA patrol service advise.
so anyone got one they can sell me at a reasonable cost also any advise on removing the old one the nut seams very tight.
Russ :D
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Thanks Russ :y I'm glad that you had some resolution to the heater problem - lets hope you can get the present one sorted without too much difficulty :y :y