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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Kevin Wood on 05 January 2008, 00:04:15

Title: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 January 2008, 00:04:15
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7171154.stm

 ;D

Kevin
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Jay w on 05 January 2008, 00:21:57
Madness.

i know the woman is not well but if she has that little confidence driving she should not be on the road.......

a sign on the back of the car is no excuse
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 January 2008, 00:30:31
Quote
Madness.

i know the woman is not well but if she has that little confidence driving she should not be on the road.......

a sign on the back of the car is no excuse

My thoughts exactly. She has my deepest sympathy. Unfortunately, if she can't muster more than 10 MPH on a motorway, and thinks a sign in the back of the car will make any difference, she hasn't got a sufficient grasp on what driving, or at least motorways, are about.  :(

Kevin
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Markjay on 05 January 2008, 00:36:26
Arrested, charged, and convicted... surely cautioning her should have been enough?
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Jay w on 05 January 2008, 00:43:11
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Arrested, charged, and convicted... surely cautioning her should have been enough?

possibly a bit of overkill going on there........

knowing that stretch of motorway well it does get very busy, the risk of accident would have been very high.....

drag her off the motorway and read her the riot act possibly.........
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: razzo on 05 January 2008, 00:44:39
While I feel sorry for her she should not be anywhere near a motorway especially as she has  the notice saying she doesn't do speed. We have friends who have MS who live in Surrey & do not come to see us as they know their limitations & are not confident enough to drive at speed or over long distances, but they understand the issues with MS so whats her excuse. She should have known better
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 January 2008, 00:46:02
I guess they were so worried by her lack of confidence that they decided a re-test was required - and conviction and a ban was the only mechanism open to them?

Kevin
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Vamps on 05 January 2008, 00:51:09

OK she should not have been driving but the fact she has MS may not necessarily be relevant, depends on the severity and it’s overall affect on the individual.
Thing that bugs me is the hoddies waiting down the road to mug her will be excused because they are ‘disadvantaged’ in some way.
Sorry, newbie with bet subject, just do not get me going.
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Jay w on 05 January 2008, 01:13:45
Quote
OK she should not have been driving but the fact she has MS may not necessarily be relevant, depends on the severity and it’s overall affect on the individual.
Thing that bugs me is the hoddies waiting down the road to mug her will be excused because they are ‘disadvantaged’ in some way.
Sorry, newbie with bet subject, just do not get me going.

its an open forum and your opinion is as valid as anyone elses
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Golfbuddy on 05 January 2008, 01:23:35
Quote
Quote
OK she should not have been driving but the fact she has MS may not necessarily be relevant, depends on the severity and it’s overall affect on the individual.
Thing that bugs me is the hoddies waiting down the road to mug her will be excused because they are ‘disadvantaged’ in some way.
Sorry, newbie with bet subject, just do not get me going.

its an open forum and your opinion is as valid as anyone elses

More valid than some eh?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Dave-C on 05 January 2008, 08:41:09
Once again, I sympathise with her illness, should she really be on a motorway? The road?

DC :-[
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Jimbob on 05 January 2008, 08:55:39
IMHO she should not be driving at all.

Taxis would be more suitable!
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 January 2008, 09:51:30
MS is the type of illness that affects motor functions and nerve related things.....not reaction times and in my view she is using it as an excuse.

If she doesn't like motorways then dont use them, endangering hers and other peoples lives is a serious offence.

She got everything she deserved, if she can see, press the accelerator and brake, turn the steering wheel, open and close the door then she is quite capable of doing 55 mph on the motorway.....I bet she doesn't do 10 mph on the A and B roads.....if she does she should get an 8 mph electric cart!

Note, the above is written by somebody who's own mother has MS.

Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 05 January 2008, 09:56:34
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Arrested, charged, and convicted... surely cautioning her should have been enough?

I dont agree there MJ......even if they just bannned her for 2 weeks......what would happened if she went and did the same the same thing again........and there were fatalities 2nd time around.. :question
At least the magistrate is making sure her driving is upto suitable standard before she goes on the road again.
I would think that she gave the magistrate little or no confidence that this was just a one of incident that would never happen again.
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Danny on 05 January 2008, 13:02:57
how useful is a sign in a car doing 10mph for someone travelling at 60+ passing her???

i have no sympathy at all for her if i'm honest mainly because I am a b*st*rd believe she could have gone to a different shop for the ink cartridge!

if she'd been in such a panic as she said, she could have just stopped on the hard shoulder and waited for assistance, surely she's old enough to have a bit of common sense!! they're right to make her re-take her test, everyone who does something so dangerous should be ordered to retake their test
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 January 2008, 13:17:59
Quote
how useful is a sign in a car doing 10mph for someone travelling at 60+ passing her???

i have no sympathy at all for her if i'm honest mainly because I am a b*st*rd believe she could have gone to a different shop for the ink cartridge!

if she'd been in such a panic as she said, she could have just stopped on the hard shoulder and waited for assistance, surely she's old enough to have a bit of common sense!! they're right to make her re-take her test, everyone who does something so dangerous should be ordered to retake their test


The retake is a life ban for her, if she doesn't pass no licence
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Crazydad on 05 January 2008, 13:21:06
There is a minimum of 60kmh here on the Autobahn :y
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: sir moanalot on 05 January 2008, 14:27:46
the sign in my car says "if i cause any accidents on the road don't blame me i was busy looking the other way its your fault for not seeing that".
do you reckon that will suffice?
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Craig_R on 05 January 2008, 14:34:42
What is the min speed on a motorway its about 40 odd is it not ?

Just ask my mate who is a motorway copper and he said

There's no legal min as such (unless there are signs telling you that for some reason (blue circular ones)), but some speeds are classed as dangerous

i have seen the problems with people driving slow on a motorway and it was not nice A car was doing the same about 10 MPH and a truck went into the back of it at about 60 guess the lorry driver was not paying attention or mis judged the speed of the car, well there was not much left of the car i can tell you
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: STMO123 on 05 January 2008, 14:55:30
There are examples of horrendous driving, both on motorways and other roads, all day and every day. Trouble is, there are no traffic cops to see them, so they go largely unnoticed. In the past month, I have nearly been hit twice by people who refuse to stop just as the lights change to red and come steaming through. Even if the lights have cameras on them, £60 and three points is not sufficent punishment for an action that is bound to cause a serious accident sooner or later.
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Andy B on 05 January 2008, 15:15:19
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There are examples of horrendous driving, both on motorways and other roads, all day and every day......

D*** head just came out on me yesterday at a round-a-bout. I went through the round-a-bout trying to sort out the locked up wheels (no ABS on the shed :() at I headed for the side of his Galaxy/what-ever. I stopped as he half waved his appologies!!!!!!!!!  >:(
I was in half a mind to turn around & catch him back up ...... and breathe :-?
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: amigov6 on 05 January 2008, 19:26:48
I sympathize with this lady's illness, it's something thet could affect any one of us in years to come but sadly her driving days are done & for safetys sake they should be.
  I've read your post Craig & yes truck drivers make a mess if they're not paying attention & the worst happens. I try to leave a gap between me & the car in front only to have some knobhead car driver dive into it & brake hard because he wants to get off @ the next exit then come to a halt when he can'nt get in to the left through leaving it too late.
   At 44t I have to "stand" on the brake while blocks a lane with his left indicator flashing. The contents of my cab where i live some nights go all over the 45ft trailer takes on a mind of it's own & i've got the worry of another 44t behind me in the same panic. This why this lady should not even take retest. I invite anyone whose not convinced to spend a day or two riding shotgun. You'll come away with a different perspective.
    Sorry, that was nearly a rant. I'll be nice for the rest of the evening!! ::)
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Baron Von Spongebob on 05 January 2008, 19:29:54
Quote
I sympathize with this lady's illness, it's something thet could affect any one of us in years to come but sadly her driving days are done & for safetys sake they should be.
  I've read your post Craig & yes truck drivers make a mess if they're not paying attention & the worst happens. I try to leave a gap between me & the car in front only to have some knobhead car driver dive into it & brake hard because he wants to get off @ the next exit then come to a halt when he can'nt get in to the left through leaving it too late.
   At 44t I have to "stand" on the brake while blocks a lane with his left indicator flashing. The contents of my cab where i live some nights go all over the 45ft trailer takes on a mind of it's own & i've got the worry of another 44t behind me in the same panic. This why this lady should not even take retest. I invite anyone whose not convinced to spend a day or two riding shotgun. You'll come away with a different perspective.
    Sorry, that was nearly a rant. I'll be nice for the rest of the evening!! ::)

I will second that  :y
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: hotel21 on 05 January 2008, 20:05:42
Incident could well have been dealt with by way of a warning or an alternate but, in the opinion of those dealing (both Police and CPS) a court appearance was the preferred option.  As a result, a conviction ensued as described.  Such is the way things unfold.

Think on the following, similar but different....

Dealt with scenario where very nice elderly lady of extended years drove the wrong way along the busiest dual carriageway in the area at the back of 5pm on a Friday evening at her normal cruising speed of 30.  She was in what was to her, the slow lane but was, unfortunately for those travelling in the correct direction, lane 2 or the 'fast' lane or 100 mph plus of a closing speed into a brick wall....

Fortunately we managed to stop/advise those entering the road of the approaching disaster and managed to remove the nice old dear without further incident - she passed two exits in the process of getting to the end of the road - but when asked why she did not leave when she realised her mistake, the answer was 'ye canny go up slip roads the wrong way, son!'.

She was in her 80's, not as sharp at the wheel as she once was and that a recurrence (at her own admission) a distinct possibility.    

I dealt with the matter by way of notification to the Fiscal (Scots version of CPS) advising that voluntary surrender of her licence may be an accepted alternate to prosecution as she had otherwise been completely law abiding up to this time.  

It was offered to the lady and accepted.  Matter resolved without any recourse to a criminal conviction and probability of recurrence of endangerment removed.

Some may argue at curtailment of liberty etc but, in my own mind, was the preferred option to save tears in the future....

  
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: MutantCav on 05 January 2008, 20:25:56
As said this disease doesnt affect your mind...she doesnt like driving then DONT DRIVE! Get a taxi...if buying an ink cartridge is somehow more important than the lives she could have cost (or the loss of her own life) then she needs to be shown the error of her ways...look up a way to go that doesnt involve the motorway, get a taxi, get a friend to give you a lift...but dont drive on the motorway...

I have had close calls with idiots in the inside lane doing 30, its not at all expected and hard to judge when your doing 70mph, you dont have time to react and if you get it wrong people generally die...so 10 must have been a total nightmare for the other traffic, and from the sounds she was barely able to stay on the road even at that speed.
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 05 January 2008, 20:56:15
At least she has some excuse..There many of them on the roads

making me older and finish my life waiting behind them ;D
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: markey mark on 05 January 2008, 21:33:31
should have taken her car and made it into a coffee table and banned her for life !!  >:( >:( sorry if that sounds harsh but what if you or one of your family were killed or badly hurt by someone not realising how slow she was going and swevered to miss and hit another car having you or one of your loved ones in !!  >:( >:(
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: CaptainZok on 05 January 2008, 22:06:52
At first glance this does sound a rather harsh treatment of a disabled driver, but we don't know if an approach similar to that of H21 hadn't been tried and rejected. Maybe the offer to drop charges on surrender of the driving licence was refused leaving no course open but to prosecute.
My father was in a similar situation a few years ago where he was summonsed following an accident caused by his having suffered a mild stroke. When the case came to court it was agreed by the bench and CPS that on surrendering his licence as advised by his doctor it would be "not in the public interest" to proceed and the case was subsequently dropped.
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: amigov6 on 05 January 2008, 22:18:31
I don't think she should be prosecuted as she meant no harm & can't help her illness but no more driving, simple as.
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Entwood on 05 January 2008, 22:23:21
Judging by her comments in other reports

http://www.guardian.co.uk/transport/Story/0,,2235645,00.html#article_continue

 "No driving licence for me means I will have no life. I live alone and I am fiercely independent. Losing my licence will leave me with no social life."  

..if she was offered a deal to surrender her licence for no prosecution .. she probably turned it down leaving the CPS no choice.

:(
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Jay w on 05 January 2008, 22:32:40
Quote
I sympathize with this lady's illness, it's something that could affect any one of us in years to come but sadly her driving days are done & for safeties sake they should be.
  I've read your post Craig & yes truck drivers make a mess if they're not paying attention & the worst happens. I try to leave a gap between me & the car in front only to have some knobhead car driver dive into it & brake hard because he wants to get off @ the next exit then come to a halt when he can't get in to the left through leaving it too late.
   At 44t I have to "stand" on the brake while blocks a lane with his left indicator flashing. The contents of my cab where i live some nights go all over the 45 ft trailer takes on a mind of it's own & i've got the worry of another 44t behind me in the same panic. This why this lady should not even take retest. I invite anyone whose not convinced to spend a day or two riding shotgun. You'll come away with a different perspective.
    Sorry, that was nearly a rant. I'll be nice for the rest of the evening!! ::)

i see this all the time, car drivers who have no idea of the impact of their actions and the consequence of taking all the braking distance of that huge lorry that is now baring down on them as the driver is trying desperately trying to slow the lorry down.

It would be interesting to allow these drivers a few hours behind the wheels and have the same trick done to them.
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: Entwood on 05 January 2008, 22:42:51
I now have the greatest sympathy with Amigov, Spongebob, Sir J and all other professional HGV drivers.

I have recently taken (and passed) both HGV (rigid only) and PCV licences and never realised just how difficult bad car drivers make things for them, until I met a few !!!. Even though the truck/coach were empty it was surprising how much inertia they actually have ... when you consider what fully laden entails it is quite amazing.

I may never use these licences in "anger", they are, at the moment just an option for the future, but the act of taking them has certainly made me a more considerate, patient and hopefully, a better driver.
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: albitz on 06 January 2008, 00:10:51
i just read in the paper that she has been banned for 7 days (although she also has to take a retest) but if i was caught doing 125 on an empty motorway at 5 a. m. on a nice clear summers morning i would get banned for years or even locked up. imho the way this lady was driving was potentially the more dangeruos scenario of the two.
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: hotel21 on 06 January 2008, 00:22:03
Quote
i just read in the paper that she has been banned for 7 days (although she also has to take a retest) but if i was caught doing 125 on an empty motorway at 5 a. m. on a nice clear summers morning i would get banned for years or even locked up. imho the way this lady was driving was potentially the more dangeruos scenario of the two.

No argument from me.

The Court on the day decided otherwise in this scenario.....  :-X  
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: amigov6 on 06 January 2008, 19:49:28
Quote
I now have the greatest sympathy with Amigov, Spongebob, Sir J and all other professional HGV drivers.

I have recently taken (and passed) both HGV (rigid only) and PCV licences and never realised just how difficult bad car drivers make things for them, until I met a few !!!. Even though the truck/coach were empty it was surprising how much inertia they actually have ... when you consider what fully laden entails it is quite amazing.

I may never use these licences in "anger", they are, at the moment just an option for the future, but the act of taking them has certainly made me a more considerate, patient and hopefully, a better driver.
Hi Entwood. Gaining these licences has given you an understanding that some(not all) car drivers lack. If they realialized how long it took to get 44t up to 56mph through 12/16 gears on a range change & split they may understand how long it takes to stop it again. However as you now know part of the driver training is to allow for other road users lack of common sense. :y
Title: Re: The other side of speed enforcement
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 06 January 2008, 19:59:31
I tried One cousins truck..Before the gears I had the problem to fit this big size in to the narrow lane..Really hard job..