Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Lesopc on 07 July 2010, 20:40:05
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Me again guys, once again i am looking for help with my project idea. The idea is to create as near a replica as possible of Johnny Cecotto's V8Star Irmscher Opel Omega from 2002/3. This time i am looking for advice on where i might source a recent type GM V8 lump and a suitable (6 speed?) gearbox and whether it will drop into the miggy with little or lots of adjustments. Any help may be useful. This is my plan for the long term with regards my Omega to ensure it survives rather than becoming an unnecessary scrapper. If this idea turns out to be too tricky then i do have another project idea but i'll keep that under my hat for now.
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GM almost released a 5.7 V8 Omega, but it was canceled at the last moment :'(
Its certainly do-able, there are even full specs someware on fitting the 5.7, officially it was cooling issues behind pulling the plug :-/
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lol at this, think best bet is another gm v8 engine- think a good company is crate engines- just google it, the engine mounts from memory are in a similar place but you might do better replacing the whole front subframe depending
HTH
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I don't know what engines Cecotto ran, but I'm guessing it was a GM/Chevy small block in which case you'll want to search for the LS series. Try a google for LS7, LS6 or LS1.
A true LS7 will have more than enough horsepower to make iron fillings of your current gearbox and differential. Getrag and others make excellent 6 speed gearboxes and of course don't forget a decent clutch/pressure plate arrangement, but for your final drive I recommend you seriously consider a Ford nine inch. Lightweight, but very strong with the supported pinion design
Adapting it to the Omega is going to be fun, but you'll need it with all that horsepower (oops, Kilowatts!).
Good luck.
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Basics 1st.
You mention stopping the car becoming a scrapper. Whats the body work like, possibly may need strengthening, will need some cutting and chopping probably round the gearbox area, but once you have fitted the engine and the box have you considered the extra BHP and Torque, beefier suspention and far superior brakes will be required. Can the diff cope with it. All this has to be considered 1st.
Brakes and suspenion can easily be sorted, tested and improved on a current car, more exspensive if you start with the engine.
Sourcing parts.
Rodley Motors
B&H Autocraft
Anglo Americam
DM Motors
Woolhouses
Coopers
PM me if you want more details
Most parts suppliers work from a massive catalouge for a lot of the aftermarket import stuff, it used to cost a fiver,
Rodlayes is probably the biggest importer for new stuff, woolhouses brings in 100's of engines a year.
Cheapest way is a donor car if you know what engine you want.
Try and get a chiltons engine book, it may well tell you every car the LS* engines were fitted in. Just had a look for the chiltons, seems they now have the Haines tittle in them - so ignore, the older ones used to cover a 7 year period at a time and were classed as car bibbles in thier day.
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Have a look at this for inspiration...
http://www.rats.no/omega_tg.html
Haven't tried to translate it, but the pictures are enough!
Personally I'd keep it in the family (GM) and go for an LS series engine (though you can pick up some old Jap/Euro V8s - lexus/toyota, audi, BMW etc pretty cheap). For second hand consider Corvette or Camaro complete with gearbox from US, or the thinly disguised Holdens they bought over here - Monaro and the VXR8. If you want new just get a crate engine. Holden LSD should be fine. Some bigger wheels so you can fit some big brakes underneath.
Bish bash bosh job's a goodun bob's your uncle - V8 Omega. Very much would like to do this myself.
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Thats alot of work and i would want to check out the SVA rules first before spending alot of money.
This site is the main one for engines
http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/
or
http://www.britishamericanengines.co.uk/
To do a conevrsion like this i would say that everything apart from the bodyshell will need replacing.
As for the engine used on the race car i've a feeling is was the V8 Northstar engine which i think is an all alloy 4.7 V8 with 32 valve twin cam heads, but i might be wrong
Cheers
Andy
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Sounds like he's planning just an engine swap in a standard meggy with maybe some suspension mods and a body kit - not actually to make a bespoke spaceframe chassis with a grp silhouette body on it like the race car. In that case it definately wont be needing an SVA (now IVA) and its a perfectly doable project. Still a lot of work as you say - not exactly a bolt-on job, but very doable.
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other problems you'll come across are:
Not enough room with the standard steering box, will have to be converted to rack (like what can be seen in the link above)
And one of the biggest ball aches is exhaust manifolds, just have a look how tight it is on the near side between engine and chassis leg on standard V6, now try and imagine trying to squeeze some sort of 4 branch manifold in there.
Me and a mate tried offering a 5.7 cleveland V8 into a bare omega shell and its suprising just how tight it is in there, for such a big bay, even with battery tray and loads of other bits cut out, it was still impossible to get the engine to sit right without major modifications, so ended up scrapping the idea.
3 litre, straight 6, turbo toyota supra engine would be a far better idea :y
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Dont know owt about Cleveland V8s, but have you seen an LS1 engine? They're tiny! Relatively :) Probably narrower than the standard V6. I'd be surpised if one of those wouldn't fit in. Standard manifolds keep close to the block and go straight down. Steering box would probably be an issue.
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use search = there's someone on here who's already done it.
If you're really serious, there's a Chevy Lumina currently for sale on Pistonheads, that would be the best and cheapest source for your parts.
any Holden will donate its entire rear subframe with diff, etc. They are the same fittings. An an example, I've just put a Carlton rear subframe on my Holden.
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pmsl at somebody suggesting the supra engine...if 3 cylinders side by side is a bit long/bad for cooling then how do you plan on getting 6 in a line in there? i suppose it could be worse, volvo only use 5 cylinder engines in the s60/v70 and the gearbox was the smallest standard gearbox in a production car or most compact quite recently - sorry i cant help talking about volvos :P
if only vauxhall had owned volvo before the first omegas, maybe the darn doors wouldnt have been so rust prone :/
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pmsl at somebody suggesting the supra engine...if 3 cylinders side by side is a bit long/bad for cooling then how do you plan on getting 6 in a line in there? i suppose it could be worse, volvo only use 5 cylinder engines in the s60/v70 and the gearbox was the smallest standard gearbox in a production car or most compact quite recently - sorry i cant help talking about volvos :P
if only vauxhall had owned volvo before the first omegas, maybe the darn doors wouldnt have been so rust prone :/
Straight 6 worked OK in the Carlton / LC / Senator. :y
Weight does start to overhang the front axle, which is less desirable.
Kevin
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pmsl at somebody suggesting the supra engine...if 3 cylinders side by side is a bit long/bad for cooling then how do you plan on getting 6 in a line in there? i suppose it could be worse, volvo only use 5 cylinder engines in the s60/v70 and the gearbox was the smallest standard gearbox in a production car or most compact quite recently - sorry i cant help talking about volvos :P
if only vauxhall had owned volvo before the first omegas, maybe the darn doors wouldnt have been so rust prone :/
What's too long about the V6? Remove the multiram and I can get in the gap between the rad and the engine (in fact I do a fair bit of work on the car sat on the front slam panel with my feet resting on the anti roll bar - quite comfy. Someone has already fit the Lotus Carlton straight 6 in a meggy. Also seen a V12 in a Carlton.
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LS 1 5.7 engine is the best fitt in an omega i know several people who have done such a conversion battery in the boot sterring rack instead of box etc quite easy if you have a doner car to work along side.
I am in the process of doing the same to 1 of my omegas, i am at present trying different places to mount radiators the main 1 being pushed as far forward as possible and using 2 deisel oil cooler rads in the front wheel arches.
the engine and gearbox are off a rear endded monaro there was a lot of bits i took from this to use in the omega i have also uprated the susp,brakes, fitted a lsd etc i should hopefully have it on the road for august
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Sweet - I'd love to come and see this! You're pretty close too. Want a visitor? :)
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Greetings and salutations.
I would also like to ask about V8 fitting :)
I have 3.0 V6 pre-facelift (1998). Now I have an offer for GM 5.7 V8 (trying to find the type). What else I need? I mean, brakes are mostly recommended, but just for test ride, they are not necessary. At first, I would like to fit it in and drive it a little, then I will read all topics, make some money :) and upgrade brakes, suspension end everything else needed. So without what it won´t ride :) ?
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other problems you'll come across are:
Not enough room with the standard steering box, will have to be converted to rack (like what can be seen in the link above)
And one of the biggest ball aches is exhaust manifolds, just have a look how tight it is on the near side between engine and chassis leg on standard V6, now try and imagine trying to squeeze some sort of 4 branch manifold in there.
Me and a mate tried offering a 5.7 cleveland V8 into a bare omega shell and its suprising just how tight it is in there, for such a big bay, even with battery tray and loads of other bits cut out, it was still impossible to get the engine to sit right without major modifications, so ended up scrapping the idea.
3 litre, straight 6, turbo toyota supra engine would be a far better idea :y
3.6 litre turbocharged Carlton engine fits very well - ask OmegaToy
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liam the car is in nottingham as that is where i work and have use of full garage services you are welcome to come over when its back in northampton like i say its a work in progress should be on the road by august going to the 'ring in it there is a bit of work to do on the cooling side the engine is in and running its just the fine fettling thats taking more time than i thought.
On the braking side I have fitted 6 pot calipers with grooved and drilled hsv discs,monaro servo unit and braided hoses all round dot 5.1 fluid.
Suspension is vxr8 standard set up.
Driveline is getrag 6 speed box paddle clutch, custom made prop monaro lsd diff.
Engine is LS1 5.7 v8 with a wortec supercharger custom made exhausts 2.5 inch 100 sport cats 3 inch tail pipes t304 grade stainless steel.
Power at fly-wheel 403 bhp and 507 lbs/ft of torque so i think it is gonna be a beast on the road.
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i suspect your supercharger isn't working. I have 390 at the flywheel from a pretty-much standard engine.
also check out your gearbox - it's probably a Borg-Warner (now Tremec) T56.
I have a Holden Commodore available if you need photos etc.
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Supercharger was not working you are right sorted it now gearbox is a getrag 420g not tremec took some fabricating but its in and working as it should tuesday
been to a rolling road session with the car now up and running mot on monday then it should be time to enjoy my creation power output at the wheels is 502hp@5250 rpm and 656 lb/ft of torque between 1500 and 4500 rpm
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So guys, does this mean that you nearly all think that LS1,6 or 7 would be best. Are there any of you that think the 4.6 Caddy Northstar is a viable choice??????
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I so absolutely need to check out your car omegadan!!
Lesopc - yes basically. Or an LS2 or an LS3 or an LS9 :). Northstar are puny little engines complicated by silly unneccessary things like overhead camshafts, and having to fit 4 valves in one cylinder ;). If it aint broke dont fix it - LS series all the way! The engine in the Racecar you love so much was a 5.7 US engine, so very probably an LS1 too.
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I so absolutely need to check out your car omegadan!!
Lesopc - yes basically. Or an LS2 or an LS3 or an LS9 :). Northstar are puny little engines complicated by silly unneccessary things like overhead camshafts, and having to fit 4 valves in one cylinder ;). If it aint broke dont fix it - LS series all the way! The engine in the Racecar you love so much was a 5.7 US engine, so very probably an LS1 too.
LS1 eh, i always thought they used Northstar variants like i think the DTM Opels did.
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Well, when I said 'very probably', perhaps I should have said it's a wild guess based on reading they were 5.7 litres (German wiki on V8 star series) and I dont know any other 5.7s that would be likely candidates :). Could be a Ford for all I know.