Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: wilsonj on 24 July 2010, 17:08:08

Title: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 24 July 2010, 17:08:08
Hi Folks , good to meet you's all, ive been reading the forums for sometime. just got round to registering..

My problem is -

I bought a 03 plate 2.2cd automatic,(LPG) about year and a half ago from a chap in durham ,he said head had been done (paperwork to prove it)  after i got it home , after about 4-6 month it starting loosing coolant , running like crap, loosing power, then water started to go all mayonaise's, so straight to garage , they put a new head gasket on it and belt and water pump ,also reset EML.

This lasted for about a week, EML came back on , i took it back they said misfire in cylinder 2 , so they fitted plugs and a front lambda sensor...problem seemed to go away.......for a few weeks.....i put up with it , but again it started to loose coolant, drive like crap, loose power, so i parked it up .......sick to the back teeth that the head had obviously gone again ( the mayonaise was back again) (also i had lost all faith in garages, so left it in drive, and went and got a 09 renault megane(which i still use).......eventually a few weeks agpo i decided to do the head gasket myself ( P.s. when i left school i done 3 years as an apprentice at abercromby vauxhall....this was back in 1993/4!!!!!

I took head off , got local garage to sent it away for pressure test and skim... i got it back all fine and dandy with gasket kit etc , i built engine back up, once it was all built it took about 15 seconds of turning over and it started fine , BUT WITH A TICKING NOISE COMING FROM JUST BEHIND THE EXHAUST/INLET TIMING SPROCKETS, i flushed the engine out with flush and hoped that a nice thick oil would remedy the ticking, but this hasnt been the case,

When i rev it in the driveway its responsive as as hell, really good (but very ticky)
If i reverse back a few meters and pull forward in either 1/2/3/D it pulls very quickly, but when i take it on road it will only pull in 1st.....in 2nd, 3rd or Drive it seem very limp and almost wants to die.also i just cant work out what the bloody ticking noise is....its seem to be right at front of engine ( could be hydrualic buckets , but ive had it running in total for over 2 hours now at high and low revs and the noise just wont go away,
 I'M AT MY WITS END!!!!   PLEASE HELP
at no point at all since ive put head back together have i put the LPG on.

I suspect  the knock sensor could be to blame for the limp response on the road  (maybe????)
but what about the ticking noise ? any idea's anyone?
are the faults connected??

 :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: PhilRich on 24 July 2010, 19:08:12
I would check the exhaust manifold for cracks first as this will cause a distinct ticking, & tracing the exact location of a engine noise is notoriously hit & miss? I wont insult your intelligence by asking about cams etc ::) :y
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 24 July 2010, 19:59:48
Thanks for reply,
funnily enough there is a exhaust bolt (top front ..missing) but it dont sound like the tick is coming from there......
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: PhilRich on 24 July 2010, 20:05:08
I'll bet you a £1 to a pile of dog poo that's where your tick is coming from! :y
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: RobG on 24 July 2010, 20:11:19
Is the "spanner" light on. Knock sensor rarely fails but if the wire or co-ax sheath is damaged it will result in a noticeable power loss whilst driving but will idle perfect and rev through the range whilst car is stationary. Have you popped the cambelt cover to investigate "ticking" noise :question
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 24 July 2010, 20:21:03
No spanner light at all......
Going to remove the cam cover tommorrow and see whats up , but how can i check ,where tick is coming from without starting it with cam cover off???

yeah , iremoved the cam belt cover today, but nothing noticeable...??? :-[
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 24 July 2010, 20:27:50
could it be possible that the lack power could be lack of back pressure caused by missing exhaust bolt???
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: PhilRich on 24 July 2010, 20:53:46
Quote
could it be possible that the lack power could be lack of back pressure caused by missing exhaust bolt???


Quite possibly (and the tick too!) ::)
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: russ b on 24 July 2010, 21:03:40
ihave just remedied the same problem it was exactly same symptoms and effects as you it was caused by cracked manifold it cost me a bit i saw some cheaper from the same engine vectra but didn't want to chance if anyone here knows if they will fit save you a couple of quid.
by the way the car was quicker and better mpg afterwards
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 24 July 2010, 21:46:44
Thanks folks,
first thing tommorrow i'm gonna replace missing bolt, and try that......failing that , off with cam cover and visual inspection...............any more idea's more than welcome
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: tidla on 24 July 2010, 22:02:03
slight valve/piston contact?
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 25 July 2010, 15:20:30
could that idea be based on 3 head skims???   

Today i started the motor and put a blockage over the missing bolt hole and the ticking more or less halfed in loudness??????      

tommorrow am going to extract broken bolt in exhaust manifold( in head)  and replace with new bolt and tighten FT.

fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 27 July 2010, 22:43:58
Had a go at retracting bolt from head....what a bugger!   think i might end up doing more damage than good....so leaving it for next door neighbour , who is gonna look/fix it on thursday night

bloody nuisance!
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: PhilRich on 27 July 2010, 22:53:32
steady away son, you'll get there, don't worry  :y
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 05 August 2010, 18:03:15
Well, finally got stud out, and had to retap hole, exhaust manifold is now solid, with no leaks whatsoever,
The ticking is still there, so i took camcover off and had a look about all seems well, put it all back together ...ticking still there!!!!! :(

One thing had keeps entering my head.........this is the third head gasket to be done in 2 years......as Tapper888 said piston/valve contact?   but surely the engineers (who knew it had been skimmed 2 times before would have advised or alerted me to the possibility of piston/valve contact.............if it is that problem.....any solution anyone?    i can rev the car right up to just before the red and everything is normal(apart from ticking)  so cant imagine any damage if i was to give it a thrashing...is this the answer ? 
please help  at wits end now

thanks guys
J
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: Abiton on 05 August 2010, 19:14:52
Has the exhaust manifold gasket been changed during any of the HG changes (for a 'new style' multilayer metal one)?

If it's had a broken stud for a while, and the gasket is still the original composite type, it probably is leaking somewhere near that stud location.  As soon as the  local compression on the gasket is lost through stud breakage, the gasket will fail nearby soon.
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 05 August 2010, 19:35:00
Now there is a good point, the new gasket i got, only had 3 shims on it , however when i took of the old(2nd gasket kit) i noticed the gasket had 6 shims on it, but i thought that the 3 shimed gasket was obviuosly the right one.......now you mention it the 6 shimmed is the right one to fit  now...correct??
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: Abiton on 05 August 2010, 19:38:59
As far as I can remember, the (gen Vx) one I fitted a couple of years ago only had 3 layers. Did you check the mating face of the manifold for flatness before re-fitting?

I bought a secondhand one recently as a spare 'cos ours has a small crack, and it was bowed quite a bit.  Maybe 2-3mm from end to end.  :(

Which stud was bust?
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 05 August 2010, 19:43:02
the new gasket i fitted was in perfect condition, the broken bolt was top front next to thermostat, ive now got a solid seal...on manifold to head
The ticking seems to be just under cam cover , just at the back of the timing sprockets.

I looked under there the day and ensured all was tight and no burr or marked cams etc???  still cant find anything???
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: PhilRich on 05 August 2010, 20:17:27
You may have a 'lazy' or even goosed cam follower (or two). You could try a bottle of wynnes lifter treatment? IIRC about £6-7 at Halfrauds. Good Luck! :y
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 05 August 2010, 23:22:08
thanks for the advice.....
whats lazy mean?

what if i swopped a few of the cam followers about? good or bad idea

Title: Re: Please help
Post by: PhilRich on 06 August 2010, 14:02:16
Quote
thanks for the advice.....
whats lazy mean?

what if i swopped a few of the cam followers about? good or bad idea




Lazy as in, the follower spring is weak but not broken. As for swapping the followers? i'm not sure about that but I wouldn't do it personally & you would still have the same problem (assuming it is the follower/s at fault). :y
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 07 August 2010, 19:19:05
thanks for reply Phil, ill not bother swopping them about,  i did however, whilst cam cover was off, give the followers a slight tighten, it hasn't solved the problem except make starting the car akward..........as in instead of turning over right away....now it grinds and slightly splutters to a start....have i possibly over tightened the cam followers ???

Also noticed , when i look at cam timimg sprockets (both exhaust and inlet) straight on from the front, they seem to turn slightly off centre....kinda hard to explain!!??????? (could this have something to do with the ticking noise??

i seem to have covered all bases , that i can think off,  looks like its time for a garage........ :( :( :(
really dont want to take it to a garage

any more advice ..anyone?


p.s.  just got this link from YOU TUBE....altho not same car...its the exact same noise-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XYKLLZcZpU&feature=related
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: davethediver on 07 August 2010, 19:27:41
Pm pete or the pink one don't mess about with garages, may also help if you put your location in yor prfile may be a local member give it the once over, before you pay at a garage :y
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 07 August 2010, 19:44:39
cant seem to alter my profile , i'm in East Lothian , Scotland, Just East of Edinburgh
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: PhilRich on 07 August 2010, 23:13:18
Quote
thanks for reply Phil, ill not bother swopping them about,  i did however, whilst cam cover was off, give the followers a slight tighten, it hasn't solved the problem except make starting the car akward..........as in instead of turning over right away....now it grinds and slightly splutters to a start....have i possibly over tightened the cam followers ???
Also noticed , when i look at cam timimg sprockets (both exhaust and inlet) straight on from the front, they seem to turn slightly off centre....kinda hard to explain!!??????? (could this have something to do with the ticking noise??

i seem to have covered all bases , that i can think off,  looks like its time for a garage........ :( :( :(
really dont want to take it to a garage

any more advice ..anyone?


p.s.  just got this link from YOU TUBE....altho not same car...its the exact same noise-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XYKLLZcZpU&feature=related





The correct torque value is 8Nm or 6lb ft. Be VERY careful of overtightening the cam caps as if you break one then the whole lot will have to be replaced! From the noise you describe, it seems likely it is either one or more lifters. :-/
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 08 August 2010, 14:18:33
cheers Phil,
gonna pop it open again , double check  every thing and check the lifters and followers and reset torques

thanks m8
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 08 August 2010, 17:06:02
Finally!!!!! :y

Ive opened it all up, removed camshafts and took out lifters, lifters numbers 3 (from front) was buggered(loose as anything) lifter number 7 was starting to go aswell,  that was on exhaust side

on inlet side all was fine...........so finally i think ive found the problem,  so away to motor factors tommorrow for two lifters........what price should i be looking at?

 :D :D :D   
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 09 August 2010, 18:28:00
i'm such a bloody dunder heed!,

whilst putting all back together, i set torque wrench to high and snap two cam followers bolts, got them out easy enough tho.....so all good, just had to order to from main dealer tho( 40p each)  , once there on, hopefully jobs a good un.....

 :y
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: PhilRich on 09 August 2010, 18:54:39
Quote
i'm such a bloody dunder heed!,

whilst putting all back together, i set torque wrench to high and snap two cam followers bolts, got them out easy enough tho.....so all good, just had to order to from main dealer tho( 40p each)  , once there on, hopefully jobs a good un.....

 :y





You've been REALLY lucky there mate! :o For gawds sake don't overtighten them again, and I would STRONGLY recommend you put a bit of Threadlok on the cam cap bolt threads when you reassemble the cams, just to be sure none will work loose.  :y
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 09 August 2010, 20:18:46
will do Phil,
just as a thought should i replace all cam cap bolts for new ones since they have been in and out a few times??

or will threadlock be ok on its own?
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: PhilRich on 09 August 2010, 21:17:32
Quote
will do Phil,
just as a thought should i replace all cam cap bolts for new ones since they have been in and out a few times??

or will threadlock be ok on its own?





The original bolts should be fine mate, & don't go mad with the threadlok, you may need to undo them again in the future LOL  ;D :y
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 10 August 2010, 20:00:46
Thanks very much for advice Phil, ill report back tommorow night with news on repair.... :y :y :y
Title: Re: Please help
Post by: wilsonj on 11 August 2010, 22:45:56
Finally....Ive done it!   car is now purring like a kitten :y, cause? two buggered hydraulic lifters.......now all i need to do is fit a bonnet release cable.......are they easy to do? any idea how much i'll pay for one?