Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: bluey on 30 August 2010, 14:48:55
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First post, and I have a feeling readers may agree with the title somehow..... :-[
I had a bit of a sudden deflation in my front o/s tyre yesterday, thankfully at only 20mph and on a deserted road so there was no panic or heart-stopping danger this time. I removed the wheel to be confronted with this:
(http://i38.tinypic.com/n4baed.jpg)
Just in case you want to wince a bit more:
(http://i33.tinypic.com/n4k0n8.jpg)
Having read some of the info on here I think this rather nasty way to destroy a Pirelli 6000 has come about from a number of things.
[olist]- Front springs replaced 2 years ago and the camber not set up correctly afterwards so that the inner shoulder has been rubbing against the bottom of the strut
- Lower arms replaced with cheap ebay things about the same time
- Alignment subsequently done by someone in a tyre fitters who wasn't as knowledgeable about Vauxhalls as I was led to believe
[/olist]
The wheels have for some time looked like they had excessive camber to me but the chap who did the alignment on them told me they were in tolerance according to manufacturer's settings. Driving the car has been less than a joy for a while as it was wandering quite badly, the steering was pulling occasionally and when steering right round a traffic island for example the inside front tyre would squeal at quite modest speeds.
I think it's pretty much a given that the lower arm needs changing, and I would prefer to do both as the n/s tyre is also wearing on the inner shoulder quite heavily too. The bit that worries me is the setting up of the camber properly, because if mine is already a mile off acceptable then somehow I have to get it closer to correct before crawling over to a local WIM (there's one about 10 miles away in Oldbury thankfully).
I'd be surprised if this is the worst example of poor suspension setup anyone has ever seen, but it's not nice and badly needs a good sorting with a number of new bits plus very careful work to make sure the problems don't come back. Any thoughts?
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Surely if the tyre was rubbing on the strut then you would have heard it?
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Deary deary me! I'm so glad you were not on the motorway :o
This is one of those posts that reminds us ALL, tyres should be thoroughly checked on a weekly basis.
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Moral of the story: If you own or maintain an Omega, park it with the steering on full lock at least once a month so you see this sort of thing early.
Thank crunchie the sudden deflation happened under such benign circumstances. :o
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First post, and I have a feeling readers may agree with the title somehow..... :-[
I had a bit of a sudden deflation in my front o/s tyre yesterday, thankfully at only 20mph and on a deserted road so there was no panic or heart-stopping danger this time. I removed the wheel to be confronted with this:
(http://i38.tinypic.com/n4baed.jpg)
Just in case you want to wince a bit more:
(http://i33.tinypic.com/n4k0n8.jpg)
Having read some of the info on here I think this rather nasty way to destroy a Pirelli 6000 has come about from a number of things.
[olist]- Front springs replaced 2 years ago and the camber not set up correctly afterwards so that the inner shoulder has been rubbing against the bottom of the strut
- Lower arms replaced with cheap ebay things about the same time
- Alignment subsequently done by someone in a tyre fitters who wasn't as knowledgeable about Vauxhalls as I was led to believe
[/olist]
The wheels have for some time looked like they had excessive camber to me but the chap who did the alignment on them told me they were in tolerance according to manufacturer's settings. Driving the car has been less than a joy for a while as it was wandering quite badly, the steering was pulling occasionally and when steering right round a traffic island for example the inside front tyre would squeal at quite modest speeds.
I think it's pretty much a given that the lower arm needs changing, and I would prefer to do both as the n/s tyre is also wearing on the inner shoulder quite heavily too. The bit that worries me is the setting up of the camber properly, because if mine is already a mile off acceptable then somehow I have to get it closer to correct before crawling over to a local WIM (there's one about 10 miles away in Oldbury thankfully).
I'd be surprised if this is the worst example of poor suspension setup anyone has ever seen, but it's not nice and badly needs a good sorting with a number of new bits plus very careful work to make sure the problems don't come back. Any thoughts?
Had same wear last year and it was the arms.. luckily mine did not deflate
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In fact the more I think about this,
No offence intended to you my friend but the reality is that this tyre should never have been on the car. Basic maintenance should have removed it long ago.
Good thing though is no one was hurt because of it
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Obviously I hold my hands up to it getting into that state in the first place. It's a very good example of why tyres should be checked every week and I should know better seeing as I've had a licence for a long time and check the tyres on the bike very carefully before I even think about taking it out. My job and other things mean I only use local roads (for local people ;) ) so thankfully being on the motorway was never going to happen, but all the same I'm going to be a lot more paranoid about the tyres from now.
I read on here that other owners are all swearing by these Lemforder lower arms so I will be seeing about getting a pair in the next couple of weeks. The car won't be used now until the end of September anyway so it can sit on the drive and get a decent wash and wax while I mug up on what to do and get the bits together.
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Allgermanparts are offering a 10% discount over the bank holiday weekend, so might be worth buying now if you can afford it:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1283075098/1#1
Discount code:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1283075098/4#4
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Surely if the tyre was rubbing on the strut then you would have heard it?
That's what I thought but I never did. The inner wear is so severe it makes me think that's what has been happening but with no obvious noice or drag could it be from something else, or just a case of the shoulder wear being so bad it cut this groove from normal driving?
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Allgermanparts are offering a 10% discount over the bank holiday weekend, so might be worth buying now if you can afford it:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1283075098/1#1
Discount code:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1283075098/4#4
I'm on a bit of tight budget I'm afraid so I'll have to forego the generous offer they made for now, but I will be in touch with them for sure. I keep mis-calling the lower arms maker Leerdammer, which sounds a bit cheesy! ;D
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;D When you order, please do it by phone.. and then post the conversation here ;D
"Hello, yes, I'd like to order some of those Leerdammer lower arms, please"
Although given how fast some of the eBay-special arms are reported to fail, maybe you've just discovered what the bushes are made of! :D
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Surely if the tyre was rubbing on the strut then you would have heard it?
That's what I thought but I never did. The inner wear is so severe it makes me think that's what has been happening but with no obvious noice or drag could it be from something else, or just a case of the shoulder wear being so bad it cut this groove from normal driving?
I don't think that there is enough range of movement on the camber adjustment to allow standard size tyres to contact the strut.
What size tyre is fitted? Is there any damage to the spring seat?
I think you will find that excessive negative camber combined with toe out and soft wishbone bushes has caused the tyre wear. Once the canvas was weakened the tyre may have bulged out and contacted the strut as a side effect of the main failure.
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I think you will find that excessive negative camber combined with toe out and soft wishbone bushes has caused the tyre wear.
I'd go with that, too - as soon as the outer rubber wore down thin enough it will have just peeled the remainder off.. the canvas follows very quickly after that (along with the tyre inner if you don't stop, obviously!)
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If there was/is contact with the strut then there will be a nice shiny patch.
Had the same problems coming home at 3am in the eain one morning, just nipped into a petrol station to top up, 3 yards later a N/S/F flat. lot worse that yours :-[ but proably brought on very quickly by a high speed run on the way to my mates. Had bits of the wore belting sticking out as well.
Cant reme if it was the wish bone or TRE that was at fault, was on my Carlton Diplomat.
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The tyres on the car are 225/55 R16 on standard 7-spoke alloys, which were the same size when I bought it and I hope are the correct ones? The strut doesn't appear to have any real signs of the tyre rubbing on it, the paint is still there along with the usual muck off the road, so bang goes my theory on that one.
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The wear is done when cornering, My tell tale sigh allthough I paid no attention was a squeal from the tyres when doing slow tight turns like car parks or a McD deive through.
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The wear is done when cornering, My tell tale sigh allthough I paid no attention was a squeal from the tyres when doing slow tight turns like car parks or a McD deive through.
I think we all know how you wore the tyres out now... ;) ;D
[edit] Funnily enough I parked at work with lock on the wheel for a change, and getting back in to the car tonight I noticed that my nearside front inside edge is looking quite scrubbed, too.. I guess that means I need the new wishbones & alignment sooner rather than later!
(Although I'm not sure it's really worth putting another £200 or so into a £900 car that only gets 25mpg :-/ )
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Bluey Put your location on the forum
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I thought I had done this earlier, obviously didn't save it correctly or something so I've done it again.
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If you want me to have a look and then help you/show you how to fit the new arms etc., give me a shout ;) :y
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Thanks for the offer, I'll definitely be in touch!
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Bluey,sorry if my comments yesterday regarding the tyre were a bit harsh,wasn't meant but when i read it again there, it sounded a bit harsh 8-)
Im sure Welung666 will sort you out and get what ever caused it sorted
:y
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No need to apologise Iain, I put the pic up partly to give other owners a nudge to have a look at their tyres. I made a mistake but I hope it helps others to not do the same thing, although from reading the forums it seems everyone is more than aware of the problem in not having the front suspension set up properly.
I think I will have quite a long list of jobs to do on the car now I've gone round this place, cambelt, HBV, climate control panel, decent service and a coolant flush. I think the oil coler is fine but I may do this anyway if the bits aren't expensive. About time my spanners earned their keep!
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:o :o :o .... seeing that made me go out and check mine .
I usually check mine once a week when doing pressures but just looked again .
:y
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that's crazy!
wish bones and wheels n motion
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Looking at that tyre reminds me of a mk1 Cortina I had when I was a lad. The car failed its mot on several worn steering joints so I simply replaced the whole drag link /trailing link assemebly c/w track rod ends from a scrap car without having it tracked afterwards, and although it then passed the test, it squealed driving in a straight line and both front tyres looked just like yours within about 200 miles . I was pulled by the police as you used to do very frequently back then, and the poor officer cut his hand on the exposed wires in the tyre as he ran his hands round them ;D but the subsequent fine and endorsements soon wiped the smile off my face :'(
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I've just seen the photos now I'm home (images blocked at work!) and HOLY SH!T :o :o
I think the camber is out slightly ;D ;D ;D
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No need to apologise Iain, I put the pic up partly to give other owners a nudge to have a look at their tyres. I made a mistake but I hope it helps others to not do the same thing, although from reading the forums it seems everyone is more than aware of the problem in not having the front suspension set up properly.
Never hurts to remind people of that! :y As you saw, it made me look at mine, and realise that my NSF is going a tad bald on the inside, too - so .. you achieved something, at least ;)
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Bluey, what was the outcome of your slight problem, as i think i have similar. I have changed the wishbones but after set up by a local centre, no change -2.40 out on nearside camber. I have spoken to WIM at Chesham and they say they can sort it but i'm worried if i have a bent strut, and that needs replacing then it's just spending more money, i am saying this as i want to sell the car but not with a problem.
Cheers Terry
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Bluey, what was the outcome of your slight problem, as i think i have similar. I have changed the wishbones but after set up by a local centre, no change -2.40 out on nearside camber. I have spoken to WIM at Chesham and they say they can sort it but i'm worried if i have a bent strut, and that needs replacing then it's just spending more money, i am saying this as i want to sell the car but not with a problem.
Cheers Terry
Thats your problem.... they dont know how, or cant be bothered to find out how to change the camber.
I just paid £57 to have a four wheel alignment at my local ProTyre. They set it to my recommendation and although it feels right, I'll still be heading over to WIM in the not to distant future to have it done PROPERLY! :y
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Noticed references to parking your car on full lock for tyre inspection purposes.
Good idea, but please dont ever leave it in a public place like this!
Just had my front near side wishbone and track rod arm badly bent whilst legally parked in town. Guess it must have been hit by something heavy moving slowly. Amazingly, not a mark on the body, just wing mirror folded in.
Now recovered, fixed and will be off to WIM soon.
A silly mistake on my part!
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Ah but.. would you rather be pushed into the kerb, or into the vehicle in front?
In fact, if you're parking on a hill, the Highway Code specifically states that your wheel should face into the kerb (when facing downhill) or away from the kerb (uphill) so that you can't roll anywhere: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069860 (section 252)
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Woo, where to start, firstly to the op.
I've been there on my first omega, didn't know about oof then. Bought from Dk motors in thatchem, it needed a front shock as it was leaking oil, except they made no attempt set the camber, giving similar results to your picture. I was alerted to mine by the wire "tinging" off the bottom of the suspension cup. If left it would definitely have blown out.
.....And unfortunately it's probably not been helped by general poor omega knowledge in the motor trade. Cheap wishbones don't last as a rule, although there are some here with reliable ones fitted, still a gamble not worth taking IMO, unless the owner is experienced enough with this car to recognise the signs of problems approaching. lemforder are the way go go for wishbones, torque the bolts correctly with wheels loaded. Do any other steering or suspension work while your there, and set the camber to 1degree.10mins as "wheels in motion" recommends. Whoever set the camber on yours may as well not have bothered, in fact if it was me I would take that tyre back and show him >:( it could have killed you and others. Failed wishbone bushes or not, clearly the camber and toe are way out. As are the factory setting btw.
If it was me I would leave the spare on the car until you can rectify the faults and get it set correctly asap. Otherwise the new tyres will ware similarly and will pull for the rest of their life on the car, even when set correctly later on.
Re pro tyre, if they are part of the same Micheldever franchise as pro tyre in Slough, avoid IMO. Micheldever tyres do give good results, but certainly have failed to pass that info on to their other branches.
Squealing tyres is not always a car set up issue imo, just as likely completely worn out and polished tar mac, ESP in local car parks such as our local waitrose, every single car pulling in squeals turning in.
However if it does it does it on numerous corners, beware.
Wow, what a mare. :(