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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Broomies Mate on 23 September 2010, 14:01:13

Title: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 23 September 2010, 14:01:13
Searched but cannot find.

In a fit of rage, I pulled the lot out again to try and cure my mis-fire, but cant remember the order of the leads on the DISPack (oval connector).

Can someone please let me know which lead goes where?  Thanks
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 23 September 2010, 14:04:25
   5-3-1

   2-6-4
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 23 September 2010, 14:05:13
Quote
   5-3-1

   2-6-4

You are a diamond.  Thanks!  :y
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 23 September 2010, 14:07:25
Actualy, cant remember if that is right, got a mental blank....give me a mo
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 23 September 2010, 14:09:30
yeh, it is:

5-3-1
2-6-4
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Kneepad on 23 September 2010, 20:22:43
Quote
Actualy, cant remember if that is right, got a mental blank....give me a mo

The last time this happened, he was convinced he had lost his post count.
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: MV62960 on 23 September 2010, 20:58:52
Hello,

It is easy to make an error (I did), though the numbers are written on the coil pack, you are working just by touch as the pack is so awful to get to. On the odd side the sockets on the pack are logical, ie they line up with the plugs in order. My mistake was to assume the same on the even side. The shortest lead (spark plug 6) doesn't goto the nearest coil pack socket, but instead the middle socket on the coil. I made this error and thought I had ruined the car, but all was ok once corrected.
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 23 September 2010, 22:36:54
Quote
Actualy, cant remember if that is right, got a mental blank....give me a mo

You were spot on, and I thank you implicitly.

Unfortunately, despite removing everything (again) the misfire is still present.

I have since deduced that the rear multi-ram doesnt actuate.  The front one happily moves at 4k RPM but the rear one does nothing.  I have swapped the actuator with that from the SAI, but still nothing.  I am wondering if this is causing part of the problem?

Still doesnt explain the misfire at idle though.

I really, really need your help guys.  Even if you are throwing ridiculous ideas at me, I'd be happy to receive them.

Note:  New DISPack (Bosch) New Plugs (NGK) New Leads (OE).
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Brikhead on 23 September 2010, 22:42:40
Quote
New DISPack (Bosch) New Plugs (NGK) New Leads (OE).

Is it compression test time yet?

Also, the rear multi ram, it's just a guess on my part but maybe it wont open up fully untill the engine is under load? Revving in neutral may not be enough to cause the vacuum to build up?
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: feeutfo on 23 September 2010, 22:46:42
I've not got that job right first yet.  :-[. Pita.
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: MV62960 on 24 September 2010, 06:32:32
Can you clarify, the engine didn't miss-fire on idle BEFORE you changed the coil pack, leads and plugs? If so, it can only be the order you have reconnected the leads.
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 24 September 2010, 20:28:30
Quote
Can you clarify, the engine didn't miss-fire on idle BEFORE you changed the coil pack, leads and plugs? If so, it can only be the order you have reconnected the leads.

I can confirm it did not misfire before I changed anything, although I changed the DISPack because it failed miserably.  The leads and plugs were changed because the Mis-Fire started two weeks after I changed the DISPack.  Could I have fitted a faulty Bosch DISPack?

I can quite honestly say that if the leads were in the wrong order, I'd notice it straight away!  This is definitely, definitely not the problem.


Right.  Compression test shows identical compression (as near as makes no difference) on all 6 cylinders.

I'm now contemplating taking the car to a Fuel Injection specialist.  Either that or a very deep river.

Any other suggestions?  :'(
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: 2woody on 24 September 2010, 20:46:13
is the vacuum signal present at the fuel pressure regulator ?

and yes, the rear multiram flap only opens with some load on.

have you checked that the earth leads are present near the coil pack and that the plug leads are fully home on the plugs.
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 24 September 2010, 20:54:29
Quote
is the vacuum signal present at the fuel pressure regulator ?

and yes, the rear multiram flap only opens with some load on.

have you checked that the earth leads are present near the coil pack and that the plug leads are fully home on the plugs.

How would I go about checking the FPR?

Rear Multi-Ram should actuate at 1k RPM as far as I know.  Front one actuates at 4k, and does this.  Rear one doesn't move, but all pipes are perfect, the actuator was 'borrowed' from the SAI.... no splits in pipes etc. :(

Plugs and leads have been in and out twice, and hammered home on the final visit  ;D
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: 2woody on 24 September 2010, 21:17:45
vacuum signal comes from the branch on the idle speed regulator pipe - pull it off the FPR and see if there's vacuum. other than that, you can't really do much else without kit.

how about manifold vacuum leaks ?

or air flow meter death ?

so it's just misfiring at idle only and not when you're driving. Even at low revs / high load ?
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: 2woody on 24 September 2010, 21:18:43
am in Bristol one night next week - would be pleased to have a look at it
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 24 September 2010, 21:20:55
Quote
am in Bristol one night next week - would be pleased to have a look at it

That would seriously be appreciated.  The long tether I normally hold has become extremely short.  ;D  :y :y :y
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: 2woody on 24 September 2010, 21:23:10
I'll know on Monday when I'm coming. Have to go to a meeting at MoD Abbey Wood on legal issues, will probably drive down the night before and come to you after the meeting is over.

how far are you from ABW ?
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 24 September 2010, 21:24:56
Quote
vacuum signal comes from the branch on the idle speed regulator pipe - pull it off the FPR and see if there's vacuum. other than that, you can't really do much else without kit.

how about manifold vacuum leaks ?

or air flow meter death ?

so it's just misfiring at idle only and not when you're driving. Even at low revs / high load ?

I know the EGR valve is leaking 'slightly'.  It blew a couple of bubbles when I jet washed the engine bay a few months ago.  Not related though otherwise it would have misfired way back then.

I have replaced the AFM with a known dodgy one!  The misfire didnt get any worse/better, so stuck mine back on.

Misfire happens every 10-15 seconds on idle, sounds like just a single clyinder not firing but only a tiny blip.  It corrects itself after (what seems to be) a single cycle.

Under HEAVY load, it misfires a lot.  Ease off tyhe throttle and all seems to be perfect.

I'm also using a LOT of fuel.  Average is 17MPH at the moment, it's normally around 25-27MPG average.
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 24 September 2010, 21:25:50
Quote
I'll know on Monday when I'm coming. Have to go to a meeting at MoD Abbey Wood on legal issues, will probably drive down the night before and come to you after the meeting is over.

how far are you from ABW ?

About 8-10 minutes down the A4174 Avon Ring Road.  I'd be more happy to pay you for your trouble in either cash or beer.  :y
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: 2woody on 24 September 2010, 21:29:27
could be lambda sensor up the creek.
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 24 September 2010, 21:33:21
Quote
could be lambda sensor up the creek.

Interestingly, I had the Exhaust Manifold Gasket replaced a few weeks ago.  Dont know if this would play any part in the problem? Misfire didn't show its face until a week or so after though.

I should have thought (but could be very wrong) that if a lambda sensor was faulty, it would provide an error code?
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: 2woody on 24 September 2010, 21:47:16
hmmmm exhaust manifold gasket.....

exhaust sealant is known to poison lambda sensors

the ECU can tell if the lambda has gone open-circuit or if the heater has failed, but it's possible to have one giving incorrect readings without bringing on the mill light. I've just had it on mine.

are you able to measure the lambda output voltage somehow ?
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 24 September 2010, 21:48:47
Quote
hmmmm exhaust manifold gasket.....

exhaust sealant is known to poison lambda sensors

the ECU can tell if the lambda has gone open-circuit or if the heater has failed, but it's possible to have one giving incorrect readings without bringing on the mill light. I've just had it on mine.

are you able to measure the lambda output voltage somehow ?

I take it you mean chuck a multi-meter across it, or would it show up on Live-Data through "My Naff Code Reader"?
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: tidla on 24 September 2010, 22:08:53
may be a duff new plug/dropped on the floor gap settings?
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: 2woody on 24 September 2010, 22:12:17
live data is better - you got that awailable ?

I could probably bring one of my Omegas down to compare
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 24 September 2010, 23:14:46
Quote
live data is better - you got that awailable ?

I could probably bring one of my Omegas down to compare

Yep, I can do Live Data.  Anything you can do to help is really appreciated, but please dont put yourself out.  :y
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 25 September 2010, 14:11:40
I have some brief live data of the car now.

Problem is, I dont know how to interpret most of what has been recorded, so any help would be appreciated.  Anything stand out as being a culprit to this fault?

http://tinyurl.com/2wlowrn
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 25 September 2010, 21:40:12
In comparison to the live data of a previous Omega I owned, everything seems to be in order.  Can anyone shed any light on this?

I'd like to add, when I squeeze the pipe leading to the ICV, the car doesnt stall...... the engine doesn't even fluctuate.  I've used two full cans of carb cleaner on every aspect of the engine bay to detect a vacuum leak, but cant find one.  No effect at all.

Shall I just bin this thing and buy something else, or should I persevere with a problem which is costing me hundreds of pounds?
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 26 September 2010, 00:14:41
Nobody Loves Me!  ;D
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Kneepad on 26 September 2010, 00:58:08
Quote
Nobody Loves Me!  ;D

Of course we love you. we are all working on the problem,
sometimes it just takes a little longer.

Your misfire started 2 weeks after changing the dispack,
which was also 1 week after changing the exhaust manifold gasket. Engine continues to run when strangling the ICV.


Possibly dodgy new dispack fitted.
Possibly Lambda sensor, due to gasket sealant poisoning.
Possibly vacuum leak, but 2 cans carb cleaner should have found that.

My money is on the dispack.    :y
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 26 September 2010, 09:41:05
Idle air looks a little low, I normaly expect around 12 kg/h.

So I suspect an air leak.
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 27 September 2010, 17:21:24
Quote
Idle air looks a little low, I normaly expect around 12 kg/h.

So I suspect an air leak.

Thanks  :y

Where are the places I should be looking?  I have used a couple of tins of carb-cleaner under the bonnet and cant get the engine to suck it in.  :'(

All hoses and little pipes are connected, all T-Pieces are in-tact, no splits, no abrasions.

Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 27 September 2010, 19:37:36
I start by disconnecting boits and blanking them off e.g. brake servo pipe, breathers etc.

Thta cna rule a few culprits out.

You then into inlet and egr areas.

Has it always done this or was it following some work?

Is the brake servo pipe ok, no signs of chaffing near where its rubbed against the aircon pipe?
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 27 September 2010, 21:06:30
Quote
I start by disconnecting boits and blanking them off e.g. brake servo pipe, breathers etc.

Thta cna rule a few culprits out.

You then into inlet and egr areas.

Has it always done this or was it following some work?

Is the brake servo pipe ok, no signs of chaffing near where its rubbed against the aircon pipe?

This has occured since (but not immediately after);

DISPack / Leads / Plugs

Thorough Clean of Plenum, Breathers, Throttle Bodies and ICV.

I happen to know the EGR is leaking very slightly, but that was detected when I bought the car, many months before this problem began..... and the leak isn't any worse.  Whats the best plan for blanking it off?  Does it need to be blanked off Plenum and Manifold side, or just one side?

Servo vacuum pipe looks new to be honest.  :-/
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 27 September 2010, 21:10:53
Do check it.

When doing the breathers did you use new seals on the breather bridge?

Did you disconnect the EGR at the plenum or the flexi pipe and bracket?
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 27 September 2010, 21:13:30
Quote
Do check it.

When doing the breathers did you use new seals on the breather bridge?

Did you disconnect the EGR at the plenum or the flexi pipe and bracket?

Yup, new seals.

EGR was disconnected by the three torx bits on the plenum.  Soapy water shows this joint to be well sealed.  The leak on the EGR is where the brass part sits on the 'rusty' part.  :y
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 27 September 2010, 21:38:14
Quote
Quote
Do check it.

When doing the breathers did you use new seals on the breather bridge?

Did you disconnect the EGR at the plenum or the flexi pipe and bracket?

Yup, new seals.

EGR was disconnected by the three torx bits on the plenum.  Soapy water shows this joint to be well sealed.  The leak on the EGR is where the brass part sits on the 'rusty' part.  :y

As a imple check, blank the breathers off (at the rear of the breather bridge) and the brake servo feed (at the plenum joint).
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 27 September 2010, 21:41:56
Quote
Quote
Quote
Do check it.

When doing the breathers did you use new seals on the breather bridge?

Did you disconnect the EGR at the plenum or the flexi pipe and bracket?

Yup, new seals.

EGR was disconnected by the three torx bits on the plenum.  Soapy water shows this joint to be well sealed.  The leak on the EGR is where the brass part sits on the 'rusty' part.  :y

As a imple check, blank the breathers off (at the rear of the breather bridge) and the brake servo feed (at the plenum joint).

Thank You Mark.  You dont realise how grateful I am for your continuing help on this irritating problem.  I sincerely appreciate it (that goes to others too)  :y

This I shall do tomorrow and arrive with suitable feedback.  :)
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: 2woody on 28 September 2010, 21:05:59
I a in Bristol on Thursday, but need to be home on Thursday night.

If you're about in the middle of the day, I can have a quick look for you.
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 28 September 2010, 23:11:53
Quote
I a in Bristol on Thursday, but need to be home on Thursday night.

If you're about in the middle of the day, I can have a quick look for you.

I am so appreciative of the offer Woody, but I cant guarantee the car will be with me Thursday daytime.  It's in the paint-shop having a few alterations and touch-ups done and I've been promised it back at end-of-play Thursday.  The Guy doing the work is a good mate, so I could 'probably' have it back, but that would then involve sorting time off work etc.  Looks like just an unfortunate turn of circumstances.

Once again though, your kind offer is very much appreciated.  :y
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: 2woody on 28 September 2010, 23:13:15
next week might be an option, too
Title: Re: Plug Lead Order on DISPack
Post by: Broomies Mate on 28 September 2010, 23:25:05
Quote
next week might be an option, too

Any help would be awesome.  I personally believe I have tried every avenue, from both directions, but sometimes a fresh pair of eyes is all that is required to make a speedy diagnoses!  :y