Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: wadeyblue on 19 October 2010, 14:20:28
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Can anyone tell me if the 5 speed auto gearbox in my 2002 Omega 3.2 Elite Estate was an optional extra as most seem to have 4 speed auto boxes. I did find something on the www which said GM reversed the decission not to fit the 5 speed back in year 2000
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Welcome to OOF WB :y
A rarety indeed, the 5 speed auto was only fitted to the Opel european models. Maybe a previous owner 'upgraded'?
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Don't think it was upgraded as the one owner before me was a funeral company and I got the service records when I purchased it in June 2004. It was first reg in Sept 02.
I have a 2003 Omega sales catalogue and it does not mention the 5 speed box as being available?
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Was it first registered in Ireland by any chance?
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No Definately Scotland
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if you pm me your reg, ill say if it left the factory like that :y
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Hi Wadey, welcome to the forum. :y
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welcome Wadey :y :y
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Hi Wadey
Welcome to the forum
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[movedhere] Newbie Welcome Area [move by] Jimbob.
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moved here as more appropriate...
Weve established this had a 4 speed box at the factory :y
quite how theyve done the change i'd be interested to know, along with ECU maps etc
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two things.......
the late 2.2 diesel I believe was the only Omega B equipped with a 5-speed auto.
are you msure the tc lock-up isn't being confused with a 5th speed ?
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no UK spec ever got the 5 speed auto... and in the UK the 2.2 Diesel never got an auto of any kind, only Manual! (maybe different in Euroland)
Does it actually go 1,2,3,4 on the shifter? If it only goes 1,2,3,D,N,R,P then its the standard 4 speed and your confusing the torque converter lockup with a gear change :y
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are you msure the tc lock-up isn't being confused with a 5th speed ?
Yep, I wonder about this too.
A true 5 speed auto will have PRND4321 settings on the gear selector.
Kevin
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Only the Y25DT engine ever had the 5 speed, anything else is a modification. Its fair to assume, then, that only Y25DT maps are available for it.
From memory (only seen pics), it goes something like 234DNRP or 134DNRP
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Could it actually be 4-speed and lock-up? ;)
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what is 4 speed and lock up?
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Only the Y25DT engine ever had the 5 speed, anything else is a modification. Its fair to assume, then, that only Y25DT maps are available for it.
From memory (only seen pics), it goes something like 234DNRP or 134DNRP
Picture says a 1000 words and all that....
(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3357/hpim7100ly3.jpg)
:y
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what is 4 speed and lock up?
Exactly what it says on the tin. The gearbox gets to 4th, then a solenoid physically locks it into gear. There's a lock up in 3rd too, so all in all, if you accelerate gently you can feel it change 6 times. :y
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Only the Y25DT engine ever had the 5 speed, anything else is a modification. Its fair to assume, then, that only Y25DT maps are available for it.
From memory (only seen pics), it goes something like 234DNRP or 134DNRP
Picture says a 1000 words and all that....
(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3357/hpim7100ly3.jpg)
:y
Ah, that's Hans-V6's car, 5sp Auto bolted to a 3.2 V6......
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the torque converter does two very clever things :-
first, it allows the engine to run with the gearbox in gear and not stall - i.e. to free-wheel.
second, it actually multiplies the torque coming out of the engine - useful for acceleration.
BUT both of these things are at the cost of higher fuel consumption, so more modern torque converters can physically lock up via an internal clutch.
when you set off from rest, the transmission will work through the gears and eventually reach a speed and throttle opening suitable for locking the tc. The actual lock will resemble a gear change.
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what is 4 speed and lock up?
Exactly what it says on the tin. The gearbox gets to 4th, then a solenoid physically locks it into gear. There's a lock up in 3rd too, so all in all, if you accelerate gently you can feel it change 6 times. :y
Only five changes to be exact :y :-X
five-speed autos were put on Opel Omega 2,5 diesels, I assume that it was not produced as Vauxhall.
The only 5-speed V6 I have seen or known has so far been the above mentioned HansV-6's car. I have not found any trace or proof that such combination was ever produced. However, the Hans V6 car IS (afaik) original :-/
EPC nor TIS mentions anything about 5-speed autos for V6 engines. However, the V8 Omega was going to be with 5-speed so maybe a few of the latest V6 Omegas were fitted with that transmission.
I'd be glad to hear if anyone has any information from the factory of this issue :y
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anyone got Hans' reg no? would be interested to look it up, By Pm please if anyone does, cheers :y
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four speed with lock-up - yes five changes
first to second
second to third
third to third with t/c lock
third with t/c lock to fourth
fourth to fourth with t/c lock
for the 5-speed 2.5 diesel, that could be seven changes if lock-up is used in third, or six if lock-up is only used in fourth and fifth.
the V8 would have had a completely different gearbox, and not one compatible with V6.
also, the 5-speed fitted to the late 2.5 diesel isn't likely to be compatible with V6 either. (bolting pattern).
would be good to see a photo of the gearbox id plate for the "5-speed"
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would be good to see a photo of the gearbox id plate for the "5-speed"
The Tech 2 lists the "5L40E" in addition to the "4L30E" as an option for the auto gearbox on Omegas.
Kevin
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would be good to see a photo of the gearbox id plate for the "5-speed"
The Tech 2 lists the "5L40E" in addition to the "4L30E" as an option for the auto gearbox on Omegas.
Kevin
Yes, but isn't 5L40E the box in the late 2,5 diseasals?
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would be good to see a photo of the gearbox id plate for the "5-speed"
The Tech 2 lists the "5L40E" in addition to the "4L30E" as an option for the auto gearbox on Omegas.
Kevin
Yes, but isn't 5L40E the box in the late 2,5 diseasals?
Yes. It's offered on all the engine options, though. Might well be that the Tech 2 software isn't clever enough to know what combinations are possible.
Kevin
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would be good to see a photo of the gearbox id plate for the "5-speed"
The Tech 2 lists the "5L40E" in addition to the "4L30E" as an option for the auto gearbox on Omegas.
Kevin
Yes, but isn't 5L40E the box in the late 2,5 diseasals?
Yes. It's offered on all the engine options, though. Might well be that the Tech 2 software isn't clever enough to know what combinations are possible.
Kevin
So, it would in theory be possible to put 5L40E behind the V6 engine and update the ECU's with Tech 2... Hmmm... Should start investigating that further.
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no
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Different bell housing to enable the various engine/box combinations???
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would be good to see a photo of the gearbox id plate for the "5-speed"
The Tech 2 lists the "5L40E" in addition to the "4L30E" as an option for the auto gearbox on Omegas.
Kevin
Yes, but isn't 5L40E the box in the late 2,5 diseasals?
Yes. It's offered on all the engine options, though. Might well be that the Tech 2 software isn't clever enough to know what combinations are possible.
Kevin
At that point is diags, it does not know engine, so offers everything for selected model and year.
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would be good to see a photo of the gearbox id plate for the "5-speed"
The Tech 2 lists the "5L40E" in addition to the "4L30E" as an option for the auto gearbox on Omegas.
Kevin
Yes, but isn't 5L40E the box in the late 2,5 diseasals?
Yes. It's offered on all the engine options, though. Might well be that the Tech 2 software isn't clever enough to know what combinations are possible.
Kevin
So, it would in theory be possible to put 5L40E behind the V6 engine and update the ECU's with Tech 2... Hmmm... Should start investigating that further.
Even if you could get it to mechanically fit, worked out how to wire up ecu electrically, you still wouldn't have a gearbox map suitable for v6 torque curve.
Thats assuming the 5l40e is happy talking to motronic ecu at all...
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four speed with lock-up - yes five changes
first to second
second to third
third to third with t/c lock
third with t/c lock to fourth
fourth to fourth with t/c lock
I've never noticed a lock up in 3rd - is it on all models? What sort of speed/conditions are needed?
In 4th it's noticeable around 55mph iirc, so it looks like I need to go for a test drive just to satisfy my curiosity. ;)
Steve
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They will even lock up in 2nd if the fluid temperature is getting a little high.
Watch how it changes up form 3rd to 4th sometimes. Revs rise a little then drop. What is happening is:
3rd with lockup -> 3rd without lockup
3rd without lockup -> 4th without lockup.
You need the torque converter to smooth the gearchange and the lockup clutch is not normally that strong either so it will never change gear with lockup on.
Kevin
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Fascinating topic, sorry I've nothing to add...but a tick - and a bump
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On the '5-speed' gearbox, why has it not got 1st gear? Hence, how is it '5 speed'?
Sorry for my ignorance but my only knowledge of auto boxes is what I've learnt on this forum
I'm very interested in Kevin's explanation of the gear changes, because the engine note on my car seems to go a bit crazy on some changes :-?
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same as the 4 speed one cant select all the gears manually, just gives you 1, 2 & 3
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four speed with lock-up - yes five changes
first to second
second to third
third to third with t/c lock
third with t/c lock to fourth
fourth to fourth with t/c lock
I've never noticed a lock up in 3rd - is it on all models? What sort of speed/conditions are needed?
In 4th it's noticeable around 55mph iirc, so it looks like I need to go for a test drive just to satisfy my curiosity. ;)
Steve
Sounds like you could do with a s/w update on the box ;D