Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Richie London on 04 November 2010, 14:33:58
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to swap gearboxes. after all the work i have done on the gearbox, new fluid, gaskets and filter and not making a differnce at all. yesterday when i dropped the sump to change the solenoid i found a piece of large washer in the sump that wasnt there 2 weeks ago. so possibly cheaper to get another box.
how much involved in taking the gearbox off and putting another one on. can see a thread on the dreaded thrust washer but not on how to change a box over.
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From what I have read it's a, heavy awkward one that I would not attempt without a 4 post lift and a transmission jack! At least you can reuse your gaskets and filter if your careful.
I think others on here have managed it on their drives with a lot of grief and the odd strained back, good luck either way!
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From what I have read it's a, heavy awkward one that I would not attempt without a 4 post lift and a transmission jack! At least you can reuse your gaskets and filter if your careful.
I think others on here have managed it on their drives with a lot of grief and the odd strained back, good luck either way!
i cant get it up on stands now as no gears at all so if its that hard then i'll probably scrap the car. cant afford to pay someone as not working again and i'm breaked for work without the car. so its a no win situation.
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Well as someone who has done both i.e. taken a gearbox off and replaced the thrust washer refitted and had the box fail ( not at all sure why - maybe something internal got damaged) and also then replacing with a known good gearbox, I would say that I would go for replacement.
I had two significant adavantages.
1) the help of another( strong) forum member who claims to be my age but is actually only 22.
2) I built a level ramp to drive the whole car onto that is 40 cm high. Thathas proved a boon for working on the car as I have had endless exhaust problems.
My recommendation would be change it for another. If yours is a 2.5 then consider an AR35.
You definitely need two people and one or two good trolley jacks. The job itself is fairly straightforward. disconnect propshaft, disconnect about a dozen bellhousing bolts, disconnect wiring loom plugs from gearbox, disconnect wiring on cats and remove both cats (mine had been off times so came off easily). The key thing is to remove horizonatally and refit horizonatally to avoid damage to the engine output shaft. I think Haynes manual gives quite a good amount of info.
Hope that helps. :y
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The key thing is to remove horizonatally and refit horizonatally to avoid damage to the engine output shaft. I think Haynes manual gives quite a good amount of info.
Better to unbolt the torque converter from the driveplate and remove & refit with the gearbox. :y
Kevin
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Well as someone who has done both i.e. taken a gearbox off and replaced the thrust washer refitted and had the box fail ( not at all sure why - maybe something internal got damaged) and also then replacing with a known good gearbox, I would say that I would go for replacement.
I had two significant adavantages.
1) the help of another( strong) forum member who claims to be my age but is actually only 22.
2) I built a level ramp to drive the whole car onto that is 40 cm high. Thathas proved a boon for working on the car as I have had endless exhaust problems.
My recommendation would be change it for another. If yours is a 2.5 then consider an AR35.
You definitely need two people and one or two good trolley jacks. The job itself is fairly straightforward. disconnect propshaft, disconnect about a dozen bellhousing bolts, disconnect wiring loom plugs from gearbox, disconnect wiring on cats and remove both cats (mine had been off times so came off easily). The key thing is to remove horizonatally and refit horizonatally to avoid damage to the engine output shaft. I think Haynes manual gives quite a good amount of info.
Hope that helps. :y
if i do change the gearbox, do i need gaskets or sealer or and would it be worth checking the thrust washer and filter first. what is the approx weight of the gearbox.
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The key thing is to remove horizonatally and refit horizonatally to avoid damage to the engine output shaft. I think Haynes manual gives quite a good amount of info.
Better to unbolt the torque converter from the driveplate and remove & refit with the gearbox. :y
Kevin
HorizonAtally of course. :y
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The key thing is to remove horizonatally and refit horizonatally to avoid damage to the engine output shaft. I think Haynes manual gives quite a good amount of info.
Better to unbolt the torque converter from the driveplate and remove & refit with the gearbox. :y
Kevin
i dont think i could do this all myself. would need someone who knows what there doing. :(
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Gearbox needs to come out to get to the thrust washer anyway, so that's a given now, I think. :(
It's a question of whether you try to repair the existing box or replace with a known good one. Of course, the thrust washer failure might have allowed other damage to occur. :-/
If you can get hold of a known sound gearbox that will be the quickest route to getting it back up and running.
Kevin
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Gearbox needs to come out to get to the thrust washer anyway, so that's a given now, I think. :(
It's a question of whether you try to repair the existing box or replace with a known good one. Of course, the thrust washer failure might have allowed other damage to occur. :-/
If you can get hold of a known sound gearbox that will be the quickest route to getting it back up and running.
Kevin
i spoke to steve at omega parts last week and he said he had 1 he would let me have for £80 if i needed it.so i would change the gaskets and filter on the sump first. why would an ar35 be better
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AR35 is stronger than the AR25.. not sure which your model had fitted originally though, AR25 I think.
Means you have to swap the AR25 bellhousing on to the AR35 but that's not a massive job once you've got the box on the floor.
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Means you have to swap the AR25 bellhousing on to the AR35 but that's not a massive job once you've got the box on the floor.
This only applies if you are replacing an AR25 on a 2.5TD with the BMW engine fitted.
An AR35 from a 3.0 V6 will be a straight swap, for an AR25 on a 2.5 V6.
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Ah.. I'll get me coat :-[
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Darth Toilet Draws is heading 'darn sarth' see if he can fit it for you.
I would also replace the thrust washer with a Sonex one before fitting a replacement box
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No worries Aaron :y
Richie, if you're keeping the car, and it's otherwise sound, I would advise fitting the uprated (metal) thrust washer, that is ordered from the USA.
Sometimes this involves some light machining of the faces inside the gearbox, but often you can get away without (we did, when we did mine) - and sometimes shims are needed to get the correct endfloat - but it's worthwhile, if the car is a keeper.
Remember to keep the gearbox upright, all the time, when doing this.
(This is also a good opportunity to empty it completely of old ATF, by removing the sensor at the back of the box, while it's stood upright - keep a big bucket handy though!)
If you just want to be on the road quickly - get a known good replacement box (but, drop the front sump before fitting it, on the basis that the autobox can be seemingly OK for a while, when in fact the thrust washer is in the sump!)
The replacement proces for an AR25 / AR35 on axle stands / ramps is not at all difficult - I have done one alone - but it IS heavy and awkward.
Ideally, you need two of you, and two good, sturdy trolley jacks, for safety.
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Well as someone who has done both i.e. taken a gearbox off and replaced the thrust washer refitted and had the box fail ( not at all sure why - maybe something internal got damaged) and also then replacing with a known good gearbox, I would say that I would go for replacement.
I had two significant adavantages.
1) the help of another( strong) forum member who claims to be my age but is actually only 22.
2) I built a level ramp to drive the whole car onto that is 40 cm high. Thathas proved a boon for working on the car as I have had endless exhaust problems.
My recommendation would be change it for another. If yours is a 2.5 then consider an AR35.
You definitely need two people and one or two good trolley jacks. The job itself is fairly straightforward. disconnect propshaft, disconnect about a dozen bellhousing bolts, disconnect wiring loom plugs from gearbox, disconnect wiring on cats and remove both cats (mine had been off times so came off easily). The key thing is to remove horizonatally and refit horizonatally to avoid damage to the engine output shaft. I think Haynes manual gives quite a good amount of info.
Hope that helps. :y
if i do change the gearbox, do i need gaskets or sealer or and would it be worth checking the thrust washer and filter first. what is the approx weight of the gearbox.
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I would say 80Kgs (approx 175 of your lbs). Might be more might be less depending on oil content. You need two people or Arnie Swarzanegger..
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Change my gear box in May 2009.
Jacked the car up and got it onto 4 stands
Took the old box out un-bolted it and just let it drop.
Pulled out from under the car on a plank of wood using a rope.
Slid the replacement under in the same way.
I then jack the box into place using a scissor jack using lots of blocks of 3x3 wood building a platform as I went.
Once it was at the right hight put 2 rods into the engine to box mounting holes and slid the box into place along the rods.
Did the mounting bolts up taking the rods out for the last two bolts.
It took about a hour to jack the box into place and do the bolts up so take your time.
The box I purchased off e-bay for £70 plus delivery I changed the fluid and filter, now done over 40K miles
and is running very well.
I hope you can fix it
cbh
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Box is heavy - around 100kgs!
Up on ramps then as per Varche method except unbolt torque converter from flywheel and remove with box. Drop down on good hydraulic jack. Refit is as per Haynes - the opposite of removal :) - take care when refitting though - make sure torque converter as far back into bell housing as it will go. Last time two of us swapped mine over in about 2 hours.
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Darth Toilet Draws is heading 'darn sarth' see if he can fit it for you.
I would also replace the thrust washer with a Sonex one before fitting a replacement box
i had thought of this also and as for darth toilet brush coming down i cant afford it for a few weeks now probably as i'm off work yet again. i could get the box i think and get it cleaned and the thrush washer put on then get it fitted when i got the money.
who supplies the sonex washer in this country or where can i get abroad??
thanks guys for your help and advice. :y
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ERM Sorry I forgot to mention the torque convertor before anyone else does.!!
You can get the sonnex thrust washer via JPAT.
I can't remember how much they are but enquire of them. They come with a variety of thrust washers to use as per the guide on OOF. If you look back far enough in General help you will find a posting from me giving the Sonnex part number if JPAT don't know it. I suspect they will know it!
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ERM Sorry I forgot to mention the torque convertor before anyone else does.!!
You can get the sonnex thrust washer via JPAT.
I can't remember how much they are but enquire of them. They come with a variety of thrust washers to use as per the guide on OOF. If you look back far enough in General help you will find a posting from me giving the Sonnex part number if JPAT don't know it. I suspect they will know it!
thank you :y
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Richie - I did this job on my old 2.5 a few years ago. Nothing too technical about it really. Mostly undoing and doing up bolts really.
I Had the front up on axle stands, undid everything that needed undoing (I dont think I took the cats off iirc) Had a trolley jack under the box to support it and then had a hell of a job manouvering it out to a position where I could lower it - then it fell off the jack onto my hand. ;D ;D.....so when you get to the point where you are about ready to take the box off, it is by any sensible method, strongly advisable to have a second pair of hands. As said, its bloody heavy.
Same when putting it back in, try as I might I couldnt do it by myself - got a second pair of hands for about 20 minutes to help steady it and get it back onto the rear of the engine and get a couple of bolts started. After that you are ok on your own. Just a matter of bolting everything back in reverse order.
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piece of piss with the right toys :y
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But a pita on the driveway with nowt but a 2 ton jack. ;) ;D
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But a pita on the driveway with nowt but a 2 ton jack.
What he just said. Definitely alot easier with 4 arms. I had a similar problem with mine.
Question: how do you get the car on to ramps with no clutch/drive?
Answer: one way is to jack the front of the car up enough to get the wheels off the ground the slide ramps as far under wheels as poss, block jack up with paving slab or similar and repeat until ramps are securely under wheels. The jack up rear of car and support on axle stands so it is more or less level. Car does need to be about 40cms of the ground in order to get box out from underneath.
IIRC its only 23 bolts, (for manual) so technically nothing tricky. :y
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It would be rude of me not to give you some pointers richie, dropping the box is easy as that thing called gravity is your friend ::), i would suggest dropping it on an old rug then just pull the rug out with the box on it, putting the box back up i used 2x trolley jacks & some 4x2 bits of wood, as its impossible to get a jack under the box to raise it i put a long bolt through the prop donut & located a jack under it to raise the rear, that gives you room to slide a block under the big sump, then you can pivot the box enough to get a block under the bellhousing, from there you go up in stages until you can get a jack under the sump, then carefully raise it up so you can get another jack under the bellhousing then when you are level with the engine give the box a good shove & thats about it. ;D, as you probably know ive been there a few times. :( :( :(
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It would be rude of me not to give you some pointers richie, dropping the box is easy as that thing called gravity is your friend ::), i would suggest dropping it on an old rug then just pull the rug out with the box on it, putting the box back up i used 2x trolley jacks & some 4x2 bits of wood, as its impossible to get a jack under the box to raise it i put a long bolt through the prop donut & located a jack under it to raise the rear, that gives you room to slide a block under the big sump, then you can pivot the box enough to get a block under the bellhousing, from there you go up in stages until you can get a jack under the sump, then carefully raise it up so you can get another jack under the bellhousing then when you are level with the engine give the box a good shove & thats about it. ;D, as you probably know ive been there a few times. :( :( :(
i think me and you should swap names alf the luck i'm having lately ;D ;D
1 other thing, before taking the box off do i need to drain both sumps and will i get a rush of fluid coming out which is not in the 2 sumps when i start undoing everything else. i'm going to have a good look at the weekend or monday and do it over a few days, not worth rushing about and doing it wrong
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It would be rude of me not to give you some pointers richie, dropping the box is easy as that thing called gravity is your friend ::), i would suggest dropping it on an old rug then just pull the rug out with the box on it, putting the box back up i used 2x trolley jacks & some 4x2 bits of wood, as its impossible to get a jack under the box to raise it i put a long bolt through the prop donut & located a jack under it to raise the rear, that gives you room to slide a block under the big sump, then you can pivot the box enough to get a block under the bellhousing, from there you go up in stages until you can get a jack under the sump, then carefully raise it up so you can get another jack under the bellhousing then when you are level with the engine give the box a good shove & thats about it. ;D, as you probably know ive been there a few times. :( :( :(
i think me and you should swap names alf the luck i'm having lately ;D ;D
1 other thing, before taking the box off do i need to drain both sumps and will i get a rush of fluid coming out which is not in the 2 sumps when i start undoing everything else. i'm going to have a good look at the weekend or monday and do it over a few days, not worth rushing about and doing it wrong
No - just don't tip it over or the atf will come out of the breather on top.
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It would be rude of me not to give you some pointers richie, dropping the box is easy as that thing called gravity is your friend ::), i would suggest dropping it on an old rug then just pull the rug out with the box on it, putting the box back up i used 2x trolley jacks & some 4x2 bits of wood, as its impossible to get a jack under the box to raise it i put a long bolt through the prop donut & located a jack under it to raise the rear, that gives you room to slide a block under the big sump, then you can pivot the box enough to get a block under the bellhousing, from there you go up in stages until you can get a jack under the sump, then carefully raise it up so you can get another jack under the bellhousing then when you are level with the engine give the box a good shove & thats about it. ;D, as you probably know ive been there a few times. :( :( :(
i think me and you should swap names alf the luck i'm having lately ;D ;D
1 other thing, before taking the box off do i need to drain both sumps and will i get a rush of fluid coming out which is not in the 2 sumps when i start undoing everything else. i'm going to have a good look at the weekend or monday and do it over a few days, not worth rushing about and doing it wrong
No - just don't tip it over or the atf will come out of the breather on top.
thanks. :y
monday me and the lad are going to get the car up as high as we can go, and then put a plan to paper going from haynes so we know what we are doing, keep all bolts in bags numbered and so on. i cant go anywhere so not big rush, just want it done properly and safely. :)
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richie,Ihad the 2.5 till last year when the grass looked greener and got the 2.2 .mate keep her on the road the 2.5 is like a roller in comparison do the work on her mate ,wish i had. :'(