Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: V6 CDX-er on 17 November 2010, 16:10:46
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>:( >:( >:(
AAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!
Any tips on how to get these dam things back on?
The pin on one side of the drum went on no problem, whilst on the other it seems like it 'might' be a couple of mm too short.
I've ground down a pair of pliers, narrowing and thinning them to make access easier, rotated the hub so that I have the biggest hole to squeeze through, but everytime I finally do manage to get the dam spring fully compressed, (and it really is fully compressed), and turn it to lock the cap in place, the dam pin rotates as well.
Even pushing hard on the back of the pin with my finger doesn't bring any joy, it still rotates.
I've long since run out of swear words to use on the bloody thing. Threats of severe violence towards the pin haven't helped, and I've been trying to get the dam thing in since lunchtime.
Any tips please chaps, as I am fast running out of patience and enthusiasm >:(
Yours sincerely, a very frustrated and fed-up V6 CDX-er.
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presume youve read
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152564750
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when ive had problems with these i found if i used a pair of grips or g clamp to hold shoes to backplate it made getting these back on easier.
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presume youve read
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152564750
Yep. Printed it off and using it for referance in the garage.
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when ive had problems with these i found if i used a pair of grips or g clamp to hold shoes to backplate it made getting these back on easier.
I'll try that Neil.
Cheers.
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best of luck its always worse when its cold outside. I can remember many years ago throwing the springs across the garage and then had to spend ages looking for them. not a good idea.
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i sympathise with you i had the same problem on an 81 bedford van for such a small job it's certainly frustrating. i used to hold the cup with vice grips and then push like buggery you only need that little start and then your away you'll get it just a ba$$rd of a job.
EDIT: just looked at what you're up against atleast on the bedford you had access! maybe you can still get the vice grips in there sideways using the hub as a lever? worth a crack!
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Yes they are a pain, but with the right tools/expertise theyre actually quite simple (I have neither the right tools/expertise, by the way, so Im not gloating!)
I have found with the shoe clamped you can grip the 'spade' end of the pin, (i go in via the side, not the front) with suitable pliers/wire cutters.
-Open the pliers fractionally, then push against the spring/washer, whilst holding the pin in fully from the rear with your one available hand.
-Dont worry if you dont push the spring/washer back to fully expose the 'spade' end, you can grip it, thus 'locking' the assembly in place, giving you chance to stretch your fingers!
-Keep doing that, until you definitely have the full 'spade' end fully gripped.
-Now you can either use aforesaid available hand to grab another pair of pliers to grip the spring/washer firm and rotate the pin a quarter of a turn, or twist the spring/washer, keeping the pin still.
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Yes they are a pain, but with the right tools/expertise theyre actually quite simple (I have neither the right tools/expertise, by the way, so Im not gloating!)
I have found with the shoe clamped you can grip the 'spade' end of the pin, (i go in via the side, not the front) with suitable pliers/wire cutters.
-Open the pliers fractionally, then push against the spring/washer, whilst holding the pin in fully from the rear with your one available hand.
-Dont worry if you dont push the spring/washer back to fully expose the 'spade' end, you can grip it, thus 'locking' the assembly in place, giving you chance to stretch your fingers!
-Keep doing that, until you definitely have the full 'spade' end fully gripped.
-Now you can either use aforesaid available hand to grab another pair of pliers to grip the spring/washer firm and rotate the pin a quarter of a turn, or twist the spring/washer, keeping the pin still.
I shall be doing mine soon, with a new set of discs/pads as well, and that is a useful tip. Thanks. :y :y :y
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i sympathise with you i had the same problem on an 81 bedford van for such a small job it's certainly frustrating. i used to hold the cup with vice grips and then push like buggery you only need that little start and then your away you'll get it just a ba$$rd of a job.
EDIT: just looked at what you're up against atleast on the bedford you had access! maybe you can still get the vice grips in there sideways using the hub as a lever? worth a crack!
After struggling with access I bought a dirt cheap pair of pliers and attacked them with the angle grinder to thin and narrow them down.
Access and room to work isn't the issue that I'm coming up against. The problem is that whenever I turn the cap to the spring, the bloody pin rotates as well. Pushing with all my strength on the head of the pin located in the backplate of the disc housing won't stop the pin turning with the cap, as there simply isn't enough 'grip' to keep the pin still.
The only way that I can see to solve this problem would be to drop a spot of weld over the head of the pin, securing it in place to the backplate. I'd have done this already, except for the fact that I don't have a MIG welder :(
I agree that it is dam frustrating. it should be a two minute job to get the cap / spring / pin located and locked in place. So far I've been at it since around 12:40 this lunchtime, but to no avail.
And on that note I've admitted defeat. Got a mechanic mate of mine popping over in the morning to have a look. In his own words, "I've done thousands of these over the years. Sometimes easy, sometimes not." I've told him that there is a case of Becks in it for him if he manages to do it, so we will see.
When I did the N/S handbrake shoes I was at it untill 02:30 in the morning. I simply can't be bothered tonight, so I'm calling it a day early, and am going to have a bath, dinner with the wife, play with my daughter, and then a an hour or so playing on the computer.
Thanks for the tips guys :y I'm just glad that this is a job I should only have to do just the once on this Omega.
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One thing I can't fathom - why is the head of the pin smooth and not made like the head of a crosshead screw? :-/
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Case of becks!? HAd it been a case if guinness it'd almost pay for me to come all the way to sheffield to do the job for you!
I think we've all been there, it's a simple enough job, which makes it all the more frustrating that you're not getting it, I know.
Hope you have a pleasant evening, and once a nice shiny pin/spring/washer is in place it'll be a hundred times easier next time. Best of luck. :y
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I've just done my handbrake shoes and that was the worst part of the job.
I found I needed good light to see what was going on, and as suggested above use the pliers to grab the flat bit. Then hold on for dear life while you compress the spring with a spanner and twist the pliers 90 degrees.
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I know they can be a little awkward but I usually just press/push the back of the pin towards the back plate with one hand while I grip the sides of the retaining washer with pliers/molegrips head on & then twist the pliers/molegrips
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I found 2 pairs of thin nosed pliers were the best option.
Just try and grab hold of the wedged end of the pin and pull and twist.
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I found 2 pairs of thin nosed pliers were the best option.
Just try and grab hold of the wedged end of the pin and pull and twist.
But you need to push the 'washer' and compress the spring to relieve the tension from behind the arrow head.
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But you need to push the 'washer' and compress the spring to relieve the tension from behind the arrow head.
Agreed, if it were a simple case of twisting a washer there wouldnt be an issue. The poor guys been at this so long he's missing his family, so fiddly is the job! :'(
I wont repeat my little 'howto' i posted earlier, but the trick is in neutralising the spring energy, to allow easy twisting of the washer. I like my method of holding everything 'inert' by nipping with pliers.
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But you need to push the 'washer' and compress the spring to relieve the tension from behind the arrow head.
Agreed, if it were a simple case of twisting a washer there wouldnt be an issue. The poor guys been at this so long he's missing his family, so fiddly is the job! :'(
I wont repeat my little 'howto' i posted earlier, but the trick is in neutralising the spring energy, to allow easy twisting of the washer. I like my method of holding everything 'inert' by nipping with pliers.
I've never had need to do an Omega's handbrake shoes, nor the 2 Senators before it, but I have done many a set of brake shoes over the years. I realise what has to be done, there's a small indent that the 'arrow head' sits in to hold it in place, which is why you need to depress spring & washer to relieve the tension from behind the 'arrow head' pin. It can be fiddley but it's really not that difficult. :y
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It can be fiddley but it's really not that difficult. :y
With all due respect Andy, that depends......
Mechanic mate came around this morning and spotted the problem almost straight away.
I'd bought some Pagid brake shoes from Euro Car parts (about £40 cheaper than VX ones). I'll try and explain this as best as I can, but please forgive me if it doesn't make much sense.
The centre plate that runs down the length of the brake shoe, (the one with all the holes in for locating springs, clips, pins, etc), was "off centre" by about 5mm. Not much, but enough to make getting the cap on the pin almost impossible. So, I'm not faced with two options. Either return the complete set of brake shoes, (both sides), to ECP, or get the Dremel out and cut a line (link?) out of the retaining spring. I chose the second option, and managed to get the cap located over the pin in about 5-6 attempts. Thank God for that! :D
I'm now faced with a second problem >:( Either the shoes have too much lining material on them, or, (as I suspect), the lining material isn't attatched to the metal base of the shoe in a uniform fashion, meaning that at certain points, even with the shoe tension wound all the way off, my drums aren't able to fit over the shoes. I've just spent the last hour or so sanding a little off at a time with the emery cloth. Nearly there, but have popped inside for a bit of dinner.
Please bear in mind that I have already done the shoes on one side, so I'm aware that the shoes require a little bit of jiggling to get them to line up with the drum, but these things are miles out. I've already checked and double checked to make sure that none of the other springs, pins, brackets or adjusters are out of kilter, and everything else seems to be spot on.
The ironic part about all of this faffing around is that the old handbrake shoes wern't actually that bad. I could proberly of sort out my none existent handbrake by fitting new discs and having a play with the adjustment 'star' inside the drum, (the adjuster by the exhaust centre section was wound all the way in.
So, the fun just never stops. Man, I'll be so pleased to have finally got this bugger done.
Fingers crossed that cam cover gaskets, cambelt & tensioners, auto-box oil & filter and changing all the other fluids and filters isn't as much of a pain in the backside as this job has turned out to be.
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if it were me i would whip those new shoes off and throw the old ones back on and adjust up and be done with it as at the end of the day it's just the handbrake or i would go crazy with an electric sander! i can't imagine these shoes getting much wear unless you drive around with the handbrake on or thaey get seized on a bit!
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My new Bosch brake shoes (£18 incl VAT) were a snug fit. I had to take a round file to the inside of the disc to remove every trace of a lip, wind the adjuster absolutely all the way in then push the disc on with my feet.
Initially I had full handbrake at 1 click!
Adjusted and bedded them in now and at last I have a handbrake that works.
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My new Bosch brake shoes (£18 incl VAT) were a snug fit. I had to take a round file to the inside of the disc to remove every trace of a lip, wind the adjuster absolutely all the way in then push the disc on with my feet.
Initially I had full handbrake at 1 click!
Adjusted and bedded them in now and at last I have a handbrake that works.
;D 'lol
Mines on now :D
One side of the piston is seized though :'( The fun just never ends.
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The 2 pairs of long nose pliers worked for me .
1 set to compress the spring by pushing down on the washer either side of the cut-out..other pair managed to pull the arrow head through slot and then twist.
Needed several attempts as when released if arrow head not 180 degrees to cut out ,it didn,t hold tight but managed to do them all this way with a fair bit of bad language.
Agree that even with star adjuster fully wound home disc/drums was very tight getting back over shoes.I also now have a very good hand brake which holds firm on 3 clicks so worth the effort.
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I keep reading Marks 'How to', but haven't got round to it yet. :(
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I keep reading Marks 'How to', but haven't got round to it yet. :(
My rear shoes still looked brand new after 105K and the mechanism was all working perfectly so I chucked a new disk on and left it be.
Kevin
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My rear shoes still looked brand new after 105K and the mechanism was all working perfectly so I chucked a new disk on and left it be.
Kevin
I'm not surpised, even when used, they only hold the car when already stopped. ;) ;) ;)
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And now one of the pistons in the off side rear caliper is stuck solid.
So if anyone on here has an off side rear caliper for sale, (vented discs), please let me know.
Cheers.
ps; would calipers from a pre-facelift Omega be exactly the same part?
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And now one of the pistons in the off side rear caliper is stuck solid.
So if anyone on here has an off side rear caliper for sale, (vented discs), please let me know.
Cheers.
ps; would calipers from a pre-facelift Omega be exactly the same part?
Earlier cars (facelift included) are solid discs at the back, whther the working bits are the same I don't know, but obviously your calipers are wider to allow for the thicker discs.
Maybe they are the same but with a sandwich plate between to two halves? :-/ :-/
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Earlier cars (facelift included) are solid discs at the back, whther the working bits are the same I don't know, but obviously your calipers are wider to allow for the thicker discs.
Maybe they are the same but with a sandwich plate between to two halves? :-/ :-/
They do look to have a spacer between the two halves but I recall someone saying there are different piston diameters between the two setups, so best to source a direct replacement.
Kevin
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Earlier cars (facelift included) are solid discs at the back, whther the working bits are the same I don't know, but obviously your calipers are wider to allow for the thicker discs.
Maybe they are the same but with a sandwich plate between to two halves? :-/ :-/
They do look to have a spacer between the two halves but I recall someone saying there are different piston diameters between the two setups, so best to source a direct replacement.
Kevin
Thanks fellas :y