Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: psycho sport on 18 November 2010, 17:43:05
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Also the car cuts out from time to time but not frequently.
Anyone know what the fault with it is?
2.5 v6 auto
thanks guys
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With regard to the ABS, TC and speedo, this is a well known about problem on this forum and many people have had it unfortunately.
It points to the ABS ECU being defective. (The speed signal goes through this, so ABS, TC, speedo, speed sensitive power steering, trip computer etc will not work) The problem appears to start intermittently then get worse until total failure.
I have heard Vx charge up to £900 to fix.
DIY methods include refurbishment of your own part from a range of companies (which many people including me think is best), or obtaining a 2nd hand part, but this needs to have the same part number and be off the same engine size/year etc. Cost of refurb in the region of £130.
There is a guide in the maintenance section telling you how to get the ABS ECU off. It's not straightforward but doable.
HTH
PS
Forgot to mention, some lucky people have manage to solve the problem by cleaning their ABS sensors on the rear wheels which of course is a whole lot easier!
I don't know much at all about auto electrics, but have you got a lose connection/eartch connection somewhere to cause the car to cut out?
Welcome to the forum aswell!
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As Geoff says - abs ecu fault, most likely. As for the cutting out - I would suspect either ICV (idle control valve) needs a clean, or possibly crank sensor. Do the paperclip test and if it shows a code19 then you need a crank sensor. Hth. :y
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Update you profile with your location, there are travelling mechanics here who could do it for you. Otherwise depending on how handy you are, set a day aside to take it off and another day to refit :'(
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Thanks for the replys. Thats a massive help!
I ve got a friend who does all my work, ex vauxhall mechanic. I ll set him on to it! Will try the rear ABS sensors first and give them a good clean. Fingers crossed!
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What age is the car? The ABS ECU fault tends to affect 1998 and later...
Also, many "Vauxhall Trained Mechanics" do not have the skills to work on cars - but if he is a known, trusted chap, all well and good :y
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What changed for the '98 onwards cars?
Is the ECU from a different manufacturer than previously, or a different revision?
Excuse me butting in please psycho sport, I'm just curious.
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I think ... but not certain .. that is when it changed from a 3 channel ABS system to the present 4 channel one .. so a completely different ECU and hydraulic control...
An expert will pass by and correct me shortly ... no doubt ... :)
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I believe it changed from 3 to 4 channel but not 1998 but late 97. Mine has had two go in my long tenure. :y
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I believe it changed from 3 to 4 channel but not 1998 but late 97. Mine has had two go in my long tenure. :y
I've had my 99 car for 7 years ....... :-X
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Thread pruned of irrelevant guff so as not to confuse OP.... :y
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Hi
I had the same problem :( :( about 2months ago
It was ABS pump so i replaced pump £35 from ebay and problem
solved :) :)
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i don't know if this will help you but some users here in romania managed to repair their abs ecu on vectra b and it works like a charm. i don't know if its the same as the one on the omega but if you are handy with the tools you can try to do it.
this is the original link but is in romanian
http://clubopel.com/viewtopic.php?t=19482
you can try to translate it with google language tools
http://www.google.com.au/language_tools
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I would be very interested to see what's in that thread Boditza, but it seems to need a login before it is available.
Can you please copy/paste any pictures from it that show approximately what is involved? :)
Is the repair anything like what's described here (http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12651) ?
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yes.. its precisely like that(i was logged and didn't thought it is needed).. the main thing is to redo all the weldings there and it will work but verry important, at least for me, is to know your way around with electrics
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I believe it changed from 3 to 4 channel but not 1998 but late 97. Mine has had two go in my long tenure. :y
Correct (as is Entwood above) - the system was updated with a new ECU and hydraulic unit to support a fully independent ABS setup (and enhanced Traction Control on V6 models).
Remember, the 1998 models started to be sold from Sep 97. The easy way to tell is if you have a mini facelift (or a facelift), you have the seemingly more fragile ABS ECU.
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yes.. its precisely like that(i was logged and didn't thought it is needed).. the main thing is to redo all the weldings there and it will work but verry important, at least for me, is to know your way around with electrics
:) Very interesting. I work with electronics, so would be very happy to to have a look at one of these from an Omega. Who's got a dead one they're not doing anything with?
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yes.. its precisely like that(i was logged and didn't thought it is needed).. the main thing is to redo all the weldings there and it will work but verry important, at least for me, is to know your way around with electrics
:) Very interesting. I work with electronics, so would be very happy to to have a look at one of these from an Omega. Who's got a dead one they're not doing anything with?
MDTM did post up a picture a while back showing what the common fault was
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He did, but I think that was only one unit he'd looked at? And a bond wire that's broken away may or may not be consistent with the gradual worsening symptoms people generally seem to report? I'm not sure.
Vibration damage to solder joints on the main connector - on the other hand - might be consistent with observed failure behaviour. :-/
Maybe the bondwires in the image Mark posted are the connections from board to connector, dunno?
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I've got a duff one sitting next to me but I haven't got round to removing the appropriate cover. Will report what I find.
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I've got a duff one sitting next to me but I haven't got round to removing the appropriate cover. Will report what I find.
A rash promise obviously but here's a picture.
(http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac107/Chris_H3/Omega%20technical%20pictures/Brakes/ABSECU1.jpg)
I can't immediately see a problem with this one but it went through the usual intermittent working phase so I presume there is a poor connection somewhere. There are bonded jumper wires on most of the peripheral pads, gold at the top and really soft aluminium(?) on the bottom row. The gel covering the board is not set believe it or not.
Note where the lid separates if you are hoping to attempt a repair. It may be possible to preserve the plastic better by making a small (< 1cm) cut in the edge as it breaks its bond self fairly easilytidily once you can get a screwdriver in the gap.
If I spot the fault on this one I will update.
HTH
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Further info on ABS ECU: bottom connector in above photo is part of solenoid system on the other side so these must be actuator drives.
Top connector looks like this (stitched photo):
(http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac107/Chris_H3/Omega%20technical%20pictures/Brakes/ABSECU2.jpg)
T'other side:
(http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac107/Chris_H3/Omega%20technical%20pictures/Brakes/ABSECU3.jpg)
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Good work Chris. :)
Comparing with MDTM's pic:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1265622074/5#5
It looks like maybe the doubled-up 'heavy'-gauge bond wires are probably the 'weakest links', and perhaps one parts company with the board, then the other, giving 'misbehaviour' due to impedance change, then outright failure. :-/
All speculation, of course. It would be interesting to see if one of that pair was no longer reliably tacked down onto the board, just held there by the 'gloop'.
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Good work Chris. :)
Comparing with MDTM's pic:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1265622074/5#5
It looks like maybe the doubled-up 'heavy'-gauge bond wires are probably the 'weakest links', and perhaps one parts company with the board, then the other, giving 'misbehaviour' due to impedance change, then outright failure. :-/
All speculation, of course. It would be interesting to see if one of that pair was no longer reliably tacked down onto the board, just held there by the 'gloop'.
I just hooked all the jumpers with a jeweller's screwdriver under a bench magnifier and the two thick ones are free at the 'top' end. I would suspect they're not steel though, much too soft.
I may get the bellows back on the camera later for another pic.
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Good work Chris. :)
Comparing with MDTM's pic:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1265622074/5#5
It looks like maybe the doubled-up 'heavy'-gauge bond wires are probably the 'weakest links', and perhaps one parts company with the board, then the other, giving 'misbehaviour' due to impedance change, then outright failure. :-/
All speculation, of course. It would be interesting to see if one of that pair was no longer reliably tacked down onto the board, just held there by the 'gloop'.
I just hooked all the jumpers with a jeweller's screwdriver under a bench magnifier and the two thick ones are free at the 'top' end. I would suspect they're not steel though, much too soft.
I may get the bellows back on the camera later for another pic.
(http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac107/Chris_H3/Omega%20technical%20pictures/Brakes/ABSECUBondfailure.jpg)
Yes both bonds have broken and I used zero effort to move them despite the apparent carnage! I suspect if the enveloping gel was cleaned off, a copper jumper could be soldered in place but that may be too rigid to last. If this is the main power return for the solenoids it would take some high peak currents and the whole unit may well be exposed to some wild physical disturbances as the solenoids click in and out.
From reading other posts on here it seems this is the standard fault with these units.
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Another top pic Chris. :y
Do you make money from your photography? If not, I think you could/should.
According to a bit of googling, those wires may be pure/nearly pure aluminium, which would explain the soft feel. Will be buggers to attempt to solder if so.
I would be tempted to try soldering some copper wire(s) in their place, though it may be tricky to remove the ali ones from the board pad to make room.
I wonder what BBA-reman or whoever do to fix this?
Worth remembering maybe that the manufacturer wouldn't necessarily have picked the best connection method, just the cheapest one that they thought was adequate at the time. Reading a bit about aluminium bond wires, suggests that they work better onto an aluminium pad, than a gold/gold-plated one. :-/
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Does anyone have any experience of 'electrically conductive epoxy resin'?
http://uk.farnell.com/circuitworks/cw2400/adhesive-silver-epoxy-conductive/dp/604057
(http://uk.farnell.com/productimages/farnell/standard/42624477.jpg)