Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: rossi123 on 24 November 2010, 06:48:29

Title: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: rossi123 on 24 November 2010, 06:48:29
Hello all I need some advice so here goes I've just replaced my abs ecu after getting it back from BBa reman, it was tricky but do-able defo put spacers on when refitting or you'll swear lots,
Anyway here goes I started car and no probs it was nice having trouble free driving with her then put fuel in and when I started car it had traction control light on which I was kinda expecting because it says that it can happen in maintenance so I thought no probs, however later in the day it started but cut out and then started fine, the next morning it happened again but this time I had to rev it a little to get it started ( it seemed like choke wasn't working, I know it doesn't have one) but when i got in car to come home from work it was fine with no traction control light on and running beautifully again later it happened again so I cleaned idle control valve and even got another one to fit which didn't work so my question is
Does the abs ecu affect idle I know it affects Tc but can't see how it would affect idle.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Paul
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Boditza on 24 November 2010, 07:24:07
from my knowledge the engine isn't affected by the abs ecu.. even the brakes work perfect without abs. maybe you touched something or snapped. try a pedal trick and see what codes you get
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Chris_H on 24 November 2010, 08:07:29
I would suggest your running problems are more likely related to something else you moved/disconnected while doing the ABS ECU although the TC light is a worry.

ABS ECU affects a surprising number of things IIRC. Speedo gets its pulses from it so that dies, TC light comes on, Speed-sensitive PAS will get stuck in whatever weight-setting it was in when the ECU last gave it a speed reading, speed-sensitive ICE will have its volume not noticing the 50mph threshold, immobiliser will not know the car is moving when it is and MAY be disabled (watch the double-negative there!).

I think that's an exhaustive list and the last one doesn't get mentioned much but I seem to recall identifying that from the circuit diagram.  It's also the only one that might potentially cause running problems but I've not heard of that happening.
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Jimbob on 24 November 2010, 08:18:22
the program, well lack of program to be exact on an ABS ECU does affect idle somehow.

The car in the guide was mine, and that ecu was a brand new one.

It was fitted, and forever had an idling problem and one of the things that led to Steve selling the car.

the car would idle too low, and would stall for the 1st minute or so if the revs werent maintained.

I bought it, and liking things to work took it to a tech2, had 3litre, auto programmed into it, the car was running at the time, the engine note changed as the revs altered, and it never stalled again  :y


All said, doesnt help your problem.
You have either caused an issue with the work youve done...
or the refurb hasnt actually fixed  your ecu / damaged in transit.
I guess its possible ecu's got mixed up and you may not even have got your own back.
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Varche on 24 November 2010, 09:04:21
Quote
the program, well lack of program to be exact on an ABS ECU does affect idle somehow.

The car in the guide was mine, and that ecu was a brand new one.

It was fitted, and forever had an idling problem and one of the things that led to Steve selling the car.

the car would idle too low, and would stall for the 1st minute or so if the revs werent maintained.

I bought it, and liking things to work took it to a tech2, had 3litre, auto programmed into it, the car was running at the time, the engine note changed as the revs altered, and it never stalled again  :y


All said, doesnt help your problem.
You have either caused an issue with the work youve done...
or the refurb hasnt actually fixed  your ecu / damaged in transit.
I guess its possible ecu's got mixed up and you may not even have got your own back.


Gulp! I hadn't thought about that as a possible downside of reconditioning. My latest S/H one has failed after only a few months so I will mark mine before I send it off for recon. :y :y
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: rossi123 on 24 November 2010, 09:13:57
So basically retrace my steps through the removal an fitting procedure and see what that brings up any more ideas feel free to post
Thanks again
Paul
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: rossi123 on 24 November 2010, 09:47:04
Defo my ecu so do you think putting 3.0 auto elite programme would cure it or is more likely something is loose for it too be intermittent, don't mean to sound stupid but don't really know where to go from here ??
Paul
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Jimbob on 24 November 2010, 09:50:48
If it was a program issue - it would be constant and permanent.

The intermittant TC light worries me, suspect it is the ECU, in one way or another.

Do you have access to a code reader capable to talking to the ABS ECU? Such as Tech2, Vaux/op com at all?  Where are you someone may be able to do a read for you.

Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: rossi123 on 24 November 2010, 10:50:36
I'm in St Helens Merseyside well near Warrington cheshire
That's what I thought if it was a programme issue it would stay on
do you know anyone in the area that does the code reading, my girlfriends brother did one last time but not sure he knows what he's doing with it the last time he did one he said it had fault on rpm but he never had engine running
Paul
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Jimbob on 24 November 2010, 10:54:37
ahh yes the old 31 - no rpm, yes quite normal with the engine on
(unlike 19 which is a problem)

Not sure of anyone of the top of my head in that area..Someone may shout up though.

But if you find yourself down the motorway near Chester, drop me a message, and ill see if there is anything obvious.

Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: rossi123 on 24 November 2010, 11:29:48
I'm off work on Friday so could do with sorting something for Friday morning so if nobody pops up or you don't mind I'll pop over it's only 25 mins from me
Paul
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Jimbob on 24 November 2010, 11:42:36
Yup, working myself, but can arrange to work from home, fairly flexible on time (9:30 -9:45, and 11-12 I am busy though).

Drop a pm if noone more local appears and I can put the "My Naff Code Reader" on it, can check a lot of the live data, check the ABS ecu out - assuming it is responding at the time), and see if anything obvious jumps out  :y
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: omega si on 28 November 2010, 21:56:30
What about disconnecting the multiplug off the abs ecu and see what happens with the idling/starting then?
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: rossi123 on 01 December 2010, 21:43:51
well i haven't thought of that one but there has been developments for instance when the car is in sports mode the rev's dont change like they normally do when the tc light is not on also it seems laboured and not very smooth when tc light is on all of which leads me to think it has got to be abs ecu but it's in for tech 2 in next couple of day's so i'll keep you posted, i have a feeling that i'll have to take ecu off again because it's faulty but gotta try tech 2 first
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Jimbob on 04 December 2010, 20:08:27
Well, Paul popped round and weve done some diagnostics and got to the bottom of this one....The ECU has no program!
This is detailed in the maint guide, but has previously only applied to brand new ABS ecu's, this is the 1st time we've seen this issue on a refurbed one.

So the fix, is to get it on tech2 for a config change.
We also had a not present Crank sensor
and a few old gearbox codes.

All cleared out, ready for the next code read.

We also found a knackered check strap bush, but I had run out of replacements.
The thermostat has also gone
Aircon needs a regas, maybe more

So a fair few jobs for another day.

Live data for logging purposes follows....
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Jimbob on 04 December 2010, 20:09:10
Engine :
"My Naff Code Reader" 100219a - PC based diagnostic tool      
      
Date and time>      04/12/2010. 19:704
      
Workshop information:      
      
The Omega Man      
      
      
Selected model>      2001
      
Control Unit:       
      
      
KW82 protocol initialized.      
      
ECU ID= AF      90566817
      
      
Measuring blocks information:      
      
Identifier      1D
Battery Voltage      13.4 V
Immobiliser Signal      Received
Immobiliser      Active
TPS Signal (Throttle Position Sensor)      0.58 V
Simulated Idle Position      Active
Simulated Full Load Switch      Inactive
Mass Air Flow Sensor      0.80 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor      15 kg/h
Coolant Temperature      0.76 V
Coolant Temperature      103 °C
Intake Air Temperature      3.33 V
Intake Air Temperature      25 °C
Engine Type      6 Cylinder
Transmission Coding      Automatic Transmission
Park/Neutral Switch      P - N  0V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning)      Inactive 0V
A/C Compressor Switch (Air Conditioning)      Inactive 0V
Telltale (Check Light)      Off 12V
Fuel Pump Relay      Active 0V
Spark Angle before TDC (Top Dead Centre)      12 °CA
Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder)      Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5      Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder)      Load
Knock Signal      Inactive
Knock Retard      0 °CA
Secondary Air Pump Relay      Inactive 12V
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation)      Inactive
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)      0.68 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve      0%
O2 Sensor 1      829 mV
O2 Sensor 2      185 mV
O2 Sensor Loop 1      Closed
O2 Sensor Loop 2      Closed
Air/Fuel Ratio 1      Lean
Air/Fuel Ratio 2      Rich
O2-Loop 1 Integrator      133 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator      133
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)      76 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)      47 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map)      135 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map)      132 Steps
Hall Sensor      Active
Engine Speed Pulse      Inactive
Engine Speed      816 RPM
Idle Air Control      140 Steps
IAC Integrator (Idle Air Control)      128 Steps
IAC Adaptation Slope (Idle Air Control)      150 Steps
IAC Block Learn (Idle Air Control)      127 Steps
Desired Idle Air      13 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air      13 kg/h
Desired Engine Idle Speed      940 RPM
Injection Pulse      2.9 ms
Engine Load Signal      1.1 ms
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor)      0%
Vehicle Speed Pulse      Not Received 12V
Vehicle Speed      0 km/h
Intake Manifold Valve 1      Inactive 12V
Intake Manifold Valve 2      Inactive 12V
Torque Control      Inactive
A/C Cutoff Relay (Air Conditioning)      Inactive 12V
Diagnostic Request      Inactive 5V
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Jimbob on 04 December 2010, 20:10:21
Gearbox :

"My Naff Code Reader" 100219a - PC based diagnostic tool                  
                  
Date and time>      04/12/2010. 19:820            
                  
Workshop information:                  
                  
The Omega Man                  
                  
                  
Selected model>      2001      Omega-B      Transmission
                  
Control Unit:                   
                  
Keyword #1: 6B                  
Keyword #2: 8F                  
                  
Normal timing parameter set.                  
                  
vehicleManufacturerECUHardwareNumber 96018355                     
systemSupplierECUSoftwareNumber: HX 09 32                    
systemNameOrEngineType:  GS820 X30XE                           
CalibrationDate: 01                  
                  
Identifier: 0103                  
                  
systemSupplierECUSoftwareVersionNumber: 0008                  
exhaustRegulationOrTypeApprovalNumber: Not programmed                  
VehicleManufacturerSpecific: 0260002437                  
VehicleManufacturerSpecific: 3337635588                  
VIN: W0L0VBP69Y1175447                  
RepairShopCodeOrTesterSerialNumber:  Not programmed                  
ProgrammingDate:  FFFFFFFF                  
systemSupplierECUHardwareNumber: BOS  0201000002                  
CalibrationEquipmentSoftwareNumber: 96018085 CK                  
                  
Measuring blocks information:                  
                  
Emergency Mode      Inactive            
Selected Mode      Economy Program            
System Voltage      13.5 V            
Internal Power Control Final Stage      Active            
Brake Light Switch      Inactive 0V            
Sport Program Switch      Inactive 12V            
Sport Program Indicator      Economy 12V            
Winter Program Switch      Inactive 12V            
Winter Program Indicator      Econ./Sport 12V            
Kickdown Switch      Inactive 12V            
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning)      Inactive 0V            
Selector Position      -P-            
Terminal A Selector Position Switch      Active 12V            
Terminal B Selector Position Switch      Inactive 0V            
Terminal C Selector Position Switch      Inactive 0V            
Terminal G Selector Position Switch      Active 12V            
Park/Neutral Signal      P - N  0V            
Engine Speed      832 RPM            
Coolant Temperature Signal      > 40°C            
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor)      8%            
Pressure Regulator Solenoid Valve      863 mA            
Calculated Pressure      4.1 bar            
1-2/3-4 Shift Solenoid Valve      Inactive 12V            
2-3 Shift Solenoid Valve      Active 0V            
Band Apply Solenoid Valve      0%            
TCC Solenoid (Torque Converter Clutch)      Inactive 12V            
AT Output Speed (Automatic Transmission)      0 RPM            
AT Oil Temperature (Automatic Transmission)      89 °C            
AT Oil Temperature (Automatic Transmission)      0.82 V            
Torque Control Signal      Inactive            
Desired Torque Control      0%            
Actual Gear      -1-            
Transmission Ratio      9%            
Ignition / Injection Cutoff      85%            
Malfunction Indication      Inactive 12V            

"My Naff Code Reader" 100219a - PC based diagnostic tool

The Omega Man

"My Naff Code Reader" - KW2000 Communication Window> 2001|Omega-B|Transmission|AR 25/35

Keyword #1: 6B
Keyword #2: 8F

Normal timing parameter set.

vehicleManufacturerECUHardwareNumber 96018355   
systemSupplierECUSoftwareNumber: HX 09 32 
systemNameOrEngineType:  GS820 X30XE         
CalibrationDate: 01

Identifier: 0103

systemSupplierECUSoftwareVersionNumber: 0008
exhaustRegulationOrTypeApprovalNumber: Not programmed
VehicleManufacturerSpecific: 0260002437
VehicleManufacturerSpecific: 3337635588
VIN: W0L0VBP69Y1175447
RepairShopCodeOrTesterSerialNumber:  Not programmed
ProgrammingDate:  FFFFFFFF
systemSupplierECUHardwareNumber: BOS  0201000002
CalibrationEquipmentSoftwareNumber: 96018085 CK


Total number of fault codes: 2

P1844 - Ignition/Injection Cutoff Circuit High Input
 (05) - Not present

P1844 - Ignition/Injection Cutoff Circuit Incorrect Signal
 (08) - Not present
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Jimbob on 04 December 2010, 20:11:27
ABS :
Stationary snapshot, but live data taken on a drive and all sensors always within 1kph of each other


"My Naff Code Reader" 100219a - PC based diagnostic tool                  
                  
Date and time>      04/12/2010. 19:1037            
                  
Workshop information:                  
                  
The Omega Man                  
                  
                  
Selected model>      2001      Omega-B      Chassis
                  
Control Unit:                   
                  
Keyword #1: 6B                  
Keyword #2: 8F                  
                  
Normal timing parameter set.                  
                  
vehicleManufacturerECUHardwareNumber Not programmed                  
                  
Identifier: 0000                  
                  
systemNameOrEngineType:  Not programmed                  
ECUInstallationDate: 00                  
systemSupplierECUHardwareNumber: 0000000000                  
systemSupplierECUSoftwareNumber: 024578                  
                  
Measuring blocks information:                  
                  
Battery Voltage      13.27 V            
Brake Light Switch      Inactive 0V            
FL Wheel Speed (Front Left)      0 km/h            
FR Wheel Speed (Front Right)      0 km/h            
RL Wheel Speed (Rear Left)      0 km/h            
RR Wheel Speed (Rear Right)      0 km/h            
Valve Relay Command      Active            
Valve Relay Feedback      Active            
Return Pump Relay Command      Inactive            
Return Pump Feedback      Inactive            
FL ABS Valves Command (Front Left)      Normal Braking            
FL ABS Valves Feedback (Front Left)      Normal Braking            
FR ABS Valves Command (Front Right)      Normal Braking            
FR ABS Valves Feedback (Front Right)      Normal Braking            
RL ABS Valves Command (Rear Left)      Normal Braking            
RL ABS Valves Feedback (Rear Left)      Normal Braking            
RR ABS Valves Command (Rear Right)      Normal Braking            
RR ABS Valves Feedback (Rear Right)      Normal Braking            


Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Jimbob on 04 December 2010, 20:15:59
Ohhh, and "My Naff Code Reader" can normally program varient coding...
but it appears it can only change a programmed ecu...

This control unit is only partially programmed!

Before you can use this control unit, a procedure
called SPS programming must be done.
This means, that a so called calibration file will be downloaded to the ECU.
This calibaration file contains important settings, and parameters.
"My Naff Code Reader" is currently unable to do this kind of programming.

For more information, please look at your user's guide.
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: TheBoy on 04 December 2010, 20:18:47
OK, looks like at least we know what the issue is, and it need hooking up to a Tech2.  Thanks Jimbob :y

I didn't want Rossi123 to travel if it wasn't something we could sort with one trip...
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: TheBoy on 04 December 2010, 20:19:48
Given previous experience with "My Naff Code Reader"s programming capability, I'm not sure I would trust it for this anyway...
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Jimbob on 04 December 2010, 20:22:20
Should have said, we were met by that message as soon as "My Naff Code Reader" started communication with the ECU....didnt need to try programming.
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: rossi123 on 05 December 2010, 00:05:54
Thanks for letting pop across there on a cold saturday evening your a star, so for the next job it looks like a trip to see the boy and get it sorted and then I can get the other jobs sorted thanks again for your help jimbob :)
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Jimbob on 05 December 2010, 10:11:12
No worries, glad we got to the bottom of it
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: TheBoy on 11 December 2010, 15:55:30
I've just seen this car, and it looks like the ECU has is either the wrong one (potentially possible it got mixed up at the repairers), or has been corrupted.

Sadly, its not something Tech2 can deal with - as it cannot even read the partnumber, it cannot do anything, as it doesn't know what ECU it is.


Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Jimbob on 11 December 2010, 16:53:19
Thats disapointing, guess its back to the repairers now to see what they have to say, or just call your losses and obtain another from a breaker.
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: rossi123 on 11 December 2010, 17:26:03
Just been thinking about it and I'm goin to look into getting another one from a breaker either by posting on here or through other avenues and see what comes of that.
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Jimbob on 11 December 2010, 22:03:47
as you havent the posts, any wanted ad in the test zone will be moved for you  :y
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: rossi123 on 11 December 2010, 23:56:15
Cheers sir your a good un
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: TheBoy on 12 December 2010, 09:52:47
The more I think about this, I'm wondering if the repair wasn't as good as it could be...

Obviously the processor is running to be able to respond to diagnostics, but its as if it cannot read part of its eprom...  ...wonder if power is not getting to entire board.



Yes, very disappointing, I don't like failure, esp as rossi123 isn't exactly just around the corner  :-[
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Jimbob on 12 December 2010, 10:03:31
TB, what exactly could you do?

I could see all live data etc...

Given the fault, and the repair may be intermittant, Im wondering if by coindence it responded to me, showed me no / corrupt config, showed live data etc, if when you looked the repair was currently not working  :-?
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: rossi123 on 12 December 2010, 10:27:27
Well I'm definitely ringing BBa reman and seeing what they are going to say and do, I think they'll want me to send it back to them I've got12 month warranty so that's my next point of attack, what I find strange is that I drove all the way back without Tc light on and it drove great so I tend to think it may of been shoddy workman ship but I'm no expert.
As for going down to see TB I enjoyed the drive and it was good to meet another OOF member  :)
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: TheBoy on 12 December 2010, 10:36:10
Quote
TB, what exactly could you do?

I could see all live data etc...

Given the fault, and the repair may be intermittant, Im wondering if by coindence it responded to me, showed me no / corrupt config, showed live data etc, if when you looked the repair was currently not working  :-?
Tech2could connect, but as it didn't have a valid GM partnumber and Ident stored (electronically), it wouldn't go further.  'Other' diagnostic devices, less concerned about failsafes, would talk to it, but again implied the config eprom was invalid...
Title: Re: Abs ecu Tc and starting issues
Post by: Jimbob on 12 December 2010, 10:38:11
I wonder if some giant electromagnet or sommat in the postage system has wiped it  :-?

Tis a strange one this.