Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: jharv on 19 January 2011, 13:29:22
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Help needed for someone who has just done a stupid action.
I have a V6 Auto Omega which has just had a replacement aux belt & tensioner which failed on a journey. Having had it repaired then on the way back it was losing water & needed a replacement radiator (which I have just fitted).
I thought that the radiator coolant for the Auto gearbox was also water rather than oil (i.e. that the rad coolant was also just pumped around the gearbox).
Having flushed the coolant pipes to the gearbox from next to the rad with water does this now make the gearbox & hence the car terminal, if not what needs to be done to recover the situation !
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Ouch!
I guess its new gearbox time, they go for around £100 2nd hand.
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Thats not good, have you started the car?
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Would a double atf change not rescue it?
Also, what did you do with what came out of the pipes, hope it didn't go down the drain :-/
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Car not yet started.
Fluid came out from under the gearbox area, but no it will not reach the drains.
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Also what is a double atf change ?
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if you haven't started the car since an atf change should sort it
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Also what is a double atf change ?
of limited use, give atf mixed with water
I reckon, you would have to drop the gearbox and drain completetly, same for the torque converter, fill up with new atf, at around £50 for the quantity required, and even that would be a gamble.
I would put it down to experience, get a new box and TC, fit and top up with ATF and carry on motoring.
I would also destroy the old box to remove the posibility of some poor sucker being sold it after you scrap it.
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Thanks for the replies, but the car has cost too much recently anyway for its current value & the wife has been wanting a change so this would seem to be the time for it to go.
Presumably any atf recharge/ change could NOT be done through the coolant pipes next to the rad ?
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If the car hasn't been started I would try dropping the gearbox sumps and refilling running it around the block and then dropping the sumps again and replacing the filter and refilling.
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If the car hasn't been started I would try dropping the gearbox sumps and refilling running it around the block and then dropping the sumps again and replacing the filter and refilling.
I agree with you Pete. If the car hasn't been started, then there's no ATF in the torque converter so dropping both sumps should be good enough
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Not wanting to start any arguments here, lol, but isnt the torque converter a sealed unit as most of the torque converters I have worked with have been? So I would think draining the gearbox sump should remove most of the water residue? Would it also be possible to run the car with the return hose to the gearbox form the radiator removed at the gearbox, fed into an empty container, have ATF ready to keep topping the box up, run the box through the gear positions until the fluid returns clear? Just a thought, anyone know if this is feasable?
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Anyone??????..... :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
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Thanks for the replies, but the car has cost too much recently anyway for its current value & the wife has been wanting a change so this would seem to be the time for it to go.
Presumably any atf recharge/ change could NOT be done through the coolant pipes next to the rad ?
That is when it is time to keep not sell.
Your next car could cost even more
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Anyone??????..... :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
Torque converter is not sealed. The gearbox fluid is circulated through it by the pump in the gearbox.
I would first disconnect the cooler hoses at the gearbox and the radiator. Thoroughly blow these through with an airline to purge them of any water. Blow through the cooler part of the radiator, again, to remove any water. Use something like an old killaspray to purge these with fresh ATF, if possible.
Drop the sumps on the gearbox and discard the fluid, reassemble and refill.
As an extra precaution when refilling with the engine running I would leave off the return hose from the cooler (can't remember which one this is) until it has bled off a little fluid before stopping and reconnecting it, just to be on the safe side.
I'm sure a tiny amount of water will probably do no harm and get "breathed" out of the box as soon as it exceeds boiling point but any significant amount of water will wreck it, so it is vital that the above is done before starting the engine IMHO.
I would also suggest a second fluid change once the car has been driven and found to be OK, just to make sure.
Kevin
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Anyone??????..... :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
Torque converter is not sealed. The gearbox fluid is circulated through it by the pump in the gearbox.
I would first disconnect the cooler hoses at the gearbox and the radiator. Thoroughly blow these through with an airline to purge them of any water. Blow through the cooler part of the radiator, again, to remove any water. Use something like an old killaspray to purge these with fresh ATF, if possible.
Drop the sumps on the gearbox and discard the fluid, reassemble and refill.
As an extra precaution when refilling with the engine running I would leave off the return hose from the cooler (can't remember which one this is) until it has bled off a little fluid before stopping and reconnecting it, just to be on the safe side.
I'm sure a tiny amount of water will probably do no harm and get "breathed" out of the box as soon as it exceeds boiling point but any significant amount of water will wreck it, so it is vital that the above is done before starting the engine IMHO.
I would also suggest a second fluid change once the car has been driven and found to be OK, just to make sure.
Kevin
Thank you all for the various replies & suggestions.
I have now emptied both sumps plus the water & remaining ATF, blown through the rad pipes (rad itself was OK), and done everything to try to remove any water in the box. I have then refilled & taken the car on a short test drive, and it is working so far, but I will empty & refill the box shortly to see if there is any more water flushed into the sumps.
Q
From the above re tiny amount of water breathing out, can it actually do this ? I.e. is there a breather on the gearbox as such as I thought that the box was essentially sealed in that what ever is in the box stays in the box ? If it is essentially sealed would the steam not blow a hole in a gasket somewhere ?
Many thanks
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There's a breather tube on the gearbox that runs up from the gearbox, up the bulkhead and can usually be found dangling around somewhere around the back of the engine/inlet manifold.. quite a few people find the 'hose with no home' and panic, then post up trying to work out what to attach it to ;)
All gearboxes have breathers of some form or another to allow for the expansion & contraction of the oil inside the box (at least, all the gearboxes I've ever looked at :))
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From the above re tiny amount of water breathing out, can it actually do this ? I.e. is there a breather on the gearbox as such as I thought that the box was essentially sealed in that what ever is in the box stays in the box ? If it is essentially sealed would the steam not blow a hole in a gasket somewhere ?
Many thanks
Yes, there is a rubber pipe about 10mm diameter that comes from the top of the gearbox casting about 2/3rds of the way along the gearbox. It runs along the top of the box and is clipped up just behind the engine.
It's worth checking that this is present, secured at the end and that the open end faces down, otherwise it can collect water.
If the box were sealed, pressure would build up due to expansion of the fluid and air inside as it reaches working temperature and lead to failure of the seals.
Kevin
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Presumably there is no simple way of draining the torque converter before reassembly of the sumps & refilling with ATF (for example, I assume that the outlet to the rad is not from the torque converter before feeding into the sump) ?
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Presumably there is no simple way of draining the torque converter before reassembly of the sumps & refilling with ATF (for example, I assume that the outlet to the rad is not from the torque converter before feeding into the sump) ?
no,the converter can't be drained but in your case should be fine anyway as the car wasn't started after the mishap
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Presumably there is no simple way of draining the torque converter before reassembly of the sumps & refilling with ATF (for example, I assume that the outlet to the rad is not from the torque converter before feeding into the sump) ?
no,the converter can't be drained but in your case should be fine anyway as the car wasn't started after the mishap
Yep, water won't have got into the torque converter unless the engine was run because the fluid is pumped there by the engine driven pump in the gearbox.
Only way to drain the torque converter is to drop the gearbox and remove it.
Kevin
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Presumably there is no simple way of draining the torque converter before reassembly of the sumps & refilling with ATF (for example, I assume that the outlet to the rad is not from the torque converter before feeding into the sump) ?
no,the converter can't be drained but in your case should be fine anyway as the car wasn't started after the mishap
Yep, water won't have got into the torque converter unless the engine was run because the fluid is pumped there by the engine driven pump in the gearbox.
Only way to drain the torque converter is to drop the gearbox and remove it.
Kevin
OK Thanks for this,
I was just a bit concerned as I have just dropped the 2 sumps again after a short drive (~8 miles) and the newly refilled ATF seems very dirty (mid brown rather than the red) and there was some "mayo" already in the main sump box). But emptying the ATF into a clear container, the oil has not yet seperated after an hour or so into water & oil layers - unlike before where there was more water than oil !.
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I seem to recall the torque convertor holds a significant percentage of the total oil volume (close to 50%?) - that won't be contaminated with water, but it will make the fresh oil come out dirty as soon as it's all pumped around, if you see what I mean :)
A little mayo just means remaining water is getting beaten into emulsion in the fresh oil - I'd expect a second change, if you did one, to come out cleaner still.
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Presumably there is no simple way of draining the torque converter before reassembly of the sumps & refilling with ATF (for example, I assume that the outlet to the rad is not from the torque converter before feeding into the sump) ?
no,the converter can't be drained but in your case should be fine anyway as the car wasn't started after the mishap
Yep, water won't have got into the torque converter unless the engine was run because the fluid is pumped there by the engine driven pump in the gearbox.
Only way to drain the torque converter is to drop the gearbox and remove it.
Kevin
OK Thanks for this,
I was just a bit concerned as I have just dropped the 2 sumps again after a short drive (~8 miles) and the newly refilled ATF seems very dirty (mid brown rather than the red) and there was some "mayo" already in the main sump box). But emptying the ATF into a clear container, the oil has not yet seperated after an hour or so into water & oil layers - unlike before where there was more water than oil !.
Remember you only "change" about 50% of the total volume when you drop both sumps, so the "new" has mixed with the "old" which would explain the colour change.
:)