Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: rickmv6 on 29 January 2011, 21:07:24

Title: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: rickmv6 on 29 January 2011, 21:07:24
hi i have had a problem with the cylinder heads on my mv6 3.0 the engine place  has said my heads are beyond repair so they have gave me a recon set where  i will use my existing cams.  problem is just noticed the heads have 2.5  etched into the side of each head.  does anybody know if these will still work.
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: rickmv6 on 29 January 2011, 21:54:48
according to haynes manual valves are same size for both engines its the cams which have a different height. but i will be using the 3 litre cams any way.  just not sure if i will loose power.
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: geoffr70 on 29 January 2011, 21:58:07
A popular mod seems to be to replace 2.5 cams with 3.0 litre cams for a power increase. So it would obviously be a de-mod to go from 3.0 cams to 2.5 cams. But as you're keeping you 3.0 cams that won't be a problem.

What did the garage say is wrong with your heads? What is wrong with the heads?
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: aaronjb on 29 January 2011, 22:01:25
I thought the 2.5 & 3.0 had different sized pistons and, thus, different size squish areas in the heads? (Which I'd think would create potential problems)
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: rickmv6 on 29 January 2011, 22:03:45
the heads where down on compression so took heads off. the outer half ring where water curculates was all blocked up when i cleaned them there was a big chunk of alloy that broke away. he said 2 much alloy would need to be welded in and he couldnt guarantee the work. so he got me these ones saying they where for the 3.0 litre
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: feeutfo on 30 January 2011, 06:07:28
There was a member at Newent with 2.5 heads on a 3.0, so it will physically fit. Can't tell you the power output but I would not do it myself. It was frowned upon by those present as I recall. Probably due to reasons given above.

Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: albitz on 30 January 2011, 08:00:44
If he told you they were 3.0 heads and you have discovered for yourself that they are 2.5 heads, I would take that as a sign that he is incompetent/ dishonest, or both, and would take the car somewhere else. ;)
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: fiend61 on 30 January 2011, 08:19:15
Quote
If he told you they were 3.0 heads and you have discovered for yourself that they are 2.5 heads, I would take that as a sign that he is incompetent/ dishonest, or both, and would take the car somewhere else. 
i wouldnt go elsewhere, i would be straight back to the garage to demand that he puts 3.0l heads on  >:(
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: rickmv6 on 30 January 2011, 09:54:16
heads are not on engine yet they are still sitting in the kitchen  didnt want to fit them and find out it goes bang
.
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: TheBoy on 30 January 2011, 10:19:26
I'd stick to 3.0l heads.  Given the hassle and expense of fitting them, may as well put the proper ones on.

The 3.0l also has sodium filled valves (exhaust only?)
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: MutantCav on 30 January 2011, 11:03:51
Well I have a pair of 3 ltr heads here mate, still on the car which runs perfectly...I would take the 2.5 heads back to the garage point out they are clearly not what you paid for and get your money back...
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: rickmv6 on 30 January 2011, 11:29:48
Is their anyway of checking weather thay have been labled the heads up wrong. one head had has code 90412231 and the other head has code 90412232. Not sure what this bloke has done with my original heads. thanks mate for the offer will speak to the garage and let you know.
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: sassanach on 30 January 2011, 12:29:15
if i recall correctly, the 2.5 heads will raise the compression ratio to unacceptable levels.if you are convinced they are 2.5 heads then do not fit!!! :y
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: sassanach on 30 January 2011, 12:33:35
just checked some 2.5 heads i have here, the numbers you have are for 2.5 heads, take them back!!
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: rickmv6 on 30 January 2011, 12:34:08
thanks for the help everyone will phone the garage tomorrow and see about a refund and thanks pete have sent you a reply. thanks all. rick.
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: Martin_1962 on 30 January 2011, 15:47:47
What compression ratio would you get?
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: ballcock50 on 31 January 2011, 19:32:55
If you can lay both 3l & 2.5l heads side by side you may see any noticable differences and check the combustion chamber volume as well.
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 31 January 2011, 19:35:44
I did some calcs ages ago, its about 11:1 or maybe slightly higher.

2.5 heads would need porting though as the inlet ports do appear to be slightly smaller.

Remember, when buying heads, you MUST have the matching cam caps
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: Martin_1962 on 01 February 2011, 11:35:12
Quote
I did some calcs ages ago, its about 11:1 or maybe slightly higher.

2.5 heads would need porting though as the inlet ports do appear to be slightly smaller.

Remember, when buying heads, you MUST have the matching cam caps


Not that high then - could be interesting with super unleaded or LPG
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: Kevin Wood on 01 February 2011, 11:43:06
Quote
I did some calcs ages ago, its about 11:1 or maybe slightly higher.

2.5 heads would need porting though as the inlet ports do appear to be slightly smaller.

Remember, when buying heads, you MUST have the matching cam caps

.. or you'll end up like this mate of mine.. rebuilding your engine in a Hotel room and trying to find bits for a Cosworth YB in Arizona. ;D I bet they loved him. :D

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2532034/DSCF0002.JPG)

Kevin
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: aaronjb on 01 February 2011, 12:09:40
Quote
Quote
I did some calcs ages ago, its about 11:1 or maybe slightly higher.

2.5 heads would need porting though as the inlet ports do appear to be slightly smaller.

Remember, when buying heads, you MUST have the matching cam caps

.. or you'll end up like this mate of mine.. rebuilding your engine in a Hotel room and trying to find bits for a Cosworth YB in Arizona. ;D I bet they loved him. :D

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2532034/DSCF0002.JPG)

Kevin

 ;D ;D ;D ;D Ok.. there has to be a good story behind that one!
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: Kevin Wood on 01 February 2011, 12:52:42
Quote
;D ;D ;D ;D Ok.. there has to be a good story behind that one!

Yes. It started off with some brief fun and games running a lot of boost and then the realisation that the petrol out in the sticks in the US has approximately the octane rating of gnat's pee.

Then followed an episode of getting some rednecks to try and weld, and then skim, the head to replace the material eroded away by the detonation. Sadly, they didn't appreciate that, unlike on a side-valve V8, there isn't inches of material spare on a Cosworth head. :(

Then a good head was duly dispatched from a saviour in the UK.. sans bearing caps. ::)

Finally, after much blood, sweat and tears fettling the car back into one piece again, and trying to select bearing caps that gave a vaguely sensible clearance, it came to pass that one of the camshafts became 3 shorter camshafts. >:(

Kevin
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: aaronjb on 01 February 2011, 13:33:46
Quote
Finally, after much blood, sweat and tears fettling the car back into one piece again, and trying to select bearing caps that gave a vaguely sensible clearance, it came to pass that one of the camshafts became 3 shorter camshafts. >:(

Ouch! I bet that made a lovely noise as the various bits of cam divorced themselves from their neighbours!

Reminds me of why I didn't take the cams out during the strip down of the Nissan - one of the bolts into a bearing cap appeared to be cross threaded (certainly it was way, way over torque spec to turn but still turning without actually clamping down) .. so I left it and ran away as fast as humanly possibly - but it probably explains why the top end was never 'quiet'!
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: Martin_1962 on 01 February 2011, 14:49:08
Helicoil?
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: Kevin Wood on 01 February 2011, 14:54:54
Quote

Ouch! I bet that made a lovely noise as the various bits of cam divorced themselves from their neighbours!

It happened as he was tightening down the bearing caps. :o

Kevin
Title: Re: 2.5v6 heads vs 3.0
Post by: MutantCav on 01 February 2011, 16:31:24
the Mutant Cavalier had a 3.0 bottom end 2.5 top end Omega engine...built by Courtney though and apparently cost a fortune...