Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: duggs on 04 February 2011, 09:20:25

Title: Low fld/Vision
Post by: duggs on 04 February 2011, 09:20:25
Got the ill-fated message up this morning.

Can someone post a picture to EXACTLY where the lights are adjusted from. Like many I may have snapped the adjusters BUT don't know what I'm looking for and where they are situated to check.
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: mathewst on 04 February 2011, 09:25:05
Passenger side, look underneath, Front wheel look from the back, rear wheel from the front of the wheel in the arch.
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: Boditza on 04 February 2011, 09:25:39
you need to pop the sensor arm back into place.. after that you won't probably need to adjust the headlights :)
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: mathewst on 04 February 2011, 09:30:06
Sorry my mistake, adjusters are on the headlights ( top middle part if I recall correctly), Sensor arms are where I said in previous post
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: Lazydocker on 04 February 2011, 09:38:39
Duggs, that message is nothing to do with broken adjusters ;) ;)

As said, check the sensor arms... One of the rods has probably popped off
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: mathewst on 04 February 2011, 09:47:37
Also if the sensor arms are correctly attached this usually means one of the sensors is dead.
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: duggs on 04 February 2011, 09:49:40
Sensor arms ?

Do they be the small metal rods...thought they were pretty much fixed solid on the top of the lights...or have I got the wrong said "arms". ?
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: mathewst on 04 February 2011, 09:58:44
Sensor arms are mounted on suspension where I mentioned in my first post they look like droplinks
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: Entwood on 04 February 2011, 10:02:40
HID self levelling sensors are (1) on the nearside front wishbone, easily visible behind the brake disk on full lock (2) rear NEARSIDE suspension arm ... need to crawl under the car to see it.

On the opposite side .. OFFSIDE rear suspension arm is a VERY SIMILAR sensor .. this is for the self levelling suspension.

Folks get "adjusters" ... the headlight screws for setting the beam and the "sensors" for the self levelling mixed up.

Once the adjusters are done they should not need redoing unless the light is removed or the car is in an accident.

The sensors work continually whilst driving and little motors inside the headlight respond.
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: duggs on 04 February 2011, 10:25:53
BOTH my headlights came in and out about a hundred times over the Xmas hols....bulb problems.

Bulbs and lights have worked fine for about 4 weeks now....but the message only appeared this morning.

Had a play with the suspension sensor last week. Rear shock has gone SO I'm changing to standard shocks tomorrow.
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: RobG on 04 February 2011, 10:29:29
Front one.......silver bar just to right of droplink
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1219190177
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: duggs on 04 February 2011, 10:41:26
RobG !    Is that to suggest that the wishbone, ALSO being changed tomorrow, needs to be a certain type to receive the sensor fixing.
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: RobG on 04 February 2011, 10:43:23
Quote
RobG !    Is that to suggest that the wishbone, ALSO being changed tomorrow, needs to be a certain type to receive the sensor fixing.
Yep.........it`s got to be for an Omega ;) :D
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: duggs on 04 February 2011, 10:53:53
LOL !   Are you saying that ALL replacement omega wishbones have the mounting point for the sensor, whether its needed or not ?
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: Lazydocker on 04 February 2011, 11:02:04
Quote
LOL !   Are you saying that ALL replacement omega wishbones have the mounting point for the sensor, whether its needed or not ?

All the ones I've seen. Only difference is that the hole may not be tapped :y

Mind you... Even the eGay cheapies I fit have a tapped hole so I would have though it will be OK :y
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: duggs on 04 February 2011, 15:47:27
This is driving me nuts guys.

Please help me out on the basics.

Each of my lights have two small rods, a ball joint type
front with allan key hole and a white plastic thing on the back. Rightly or wrongly I used an allan key to loosen them up a bit as they were rather tight/gummed up.

I can't see that anything could have "popped" out of anything. I'm well confused.

Being an optimist I'm assuming the sensor on the wishbone isn't playing up.
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: RobG on 04 February 2011, 16:28:10
Front sensor left of pic, rear is on the right of pic. Part #13 is the arm that pops off. The threaded ends top & bottom of arm are fixed to the sensor "brackets" the other end of the thread has a ball type joint & the arms tend to pop off these. HTH
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z257/belisensis/OMEGAFORUM/HIDsensor.gif)
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: Entwood on 04 February 2011, 17:26:03
Quote
This is driving me nuts guys.

Please help me out on the basics.

Each of my lights have two small rods, a ball joint type
front with allan key hole and a white plastic thing on the back. Rightly or wrongly I used an allan key to loosen them up a bit as they were rather tight/gummed up.

I can't see that anything could have "popped" out of anything. I'm well confused.

Being an optimist I'm assuming the sensor on the wishbone isn't playing up.


They are the adjusters for setting the basic position of the lamp in the body. The lamp sits inside a further mechanism that is moved by the motors driven by the signal from the sensors mentioned above .....

Those sensors only work as you are driving along and the suspension moves.

As said before .. you have 2 sensors .. one at the front and one at the rear ..
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: duggs on 04 February 2011, 19:51:42
Ok !...Think I'm getting there.

I've found the sensor at the front, attached to the top of the wishbone passenger side. (Wishbone being replaced in the morning as mentioned.)

SO there are two sensors at the back then.
One being for the self levellling, found that, and the other that i haven't looked for is for the lights...OR are they one of the same back there.

IF so then that might be the problem. Last weekend I did the rise and fall test for the rear air suspension and I may have upset something.

Changed the headlights at Xmas and it's only recently that the field of vision message has appeared.
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 February 2011, 20:03:05
Quote
Ok !...Think I'm getting there.

I've found the sensor at the front, attached to the top of the wishbone passenger side. (Wishbone being replaced in the morning as mentioned.)

SO there are two sensors at the back then.
One being for the self levellling, found that, and the other that i haven't looked for is for the lights...OR are they one of the same back there.

IF so then that might be the problem. Last weekend I did the rise and fall test for the rear air suspension and I may have upset something.

Changed the headlights at Xmas and it's only recently that the field of vision message has appeared.

Two SEPERATE ones at the rear.

The lights one is on the passenger side rear trailing arm just forward of the nearside rear wheel with the self leveling one being on the drivers side near the diff.
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: duggs on 04 February 2011, 20:18:07
Brillient Mark....

Funny thing...IF a go over the bumps in the road (sleeping policemen) a little on the fast side, the "check"  light goes out for about 10/15 seconds then flickers back on. During normal driving it stays on.

Loose connection ??
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 February 2011, 20:22:26
Possibly.

If you look at the sensors you will see a linkage which consists of a pair of small ball joints.

These MUST be free to move.

I would remove them from the sensor, flush the rust out, clean the ball joints up a bit and refit with a bit of grease on so they move nice and freely.

I suspect one of them (normaly the front) has a seized ball joint assembly so do it before it gooses the sensor
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: Terbs on 04 February 2011, 23:31:52
It IS confusing to keep seeing the terminology of 'levelling sensors' as someone new to Omega's, but I think the job they do is quite different if I read correctly......

1....the two sensors on the lefthand side gauge the angle of the car and make adjustments to the headlights NOT the vehicle body

2....the sensor on the righthand side, gauges the level of the vehicle under any load in conjunction with the self levelling shocks and alters (via ecu) accordingly to keep the body level.

Hope this helps :y :y
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: duggs on 04 February 2011, 23:35:58
Take a wild guess what I've been up to this evening.

Borrowed my Fathers double garage and went down under.

Found all the sensors, cleaned the ball joints and greased them up...sadly it hasn't fixed the problem...now the check light won't go out at all, not even whilst going over the humpest of speed humps.

BUT..no matter. Least I found the little buggers.

Gotta say neither of the light sensors looked very happy...certainly seen better days.

Guess I'll get the front wishbones done and rear shocks then have a further investigation.

Assume I can't test them as we can with the self levelling shocks...
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: Entwood on 04 February 2011, 23:50:56
If you can get to a Tech2.. they can be checked. The tech2 cans end a signal that causes the headlights to motor over their whole range.. if the motors are good of course !!!

If the motors are good and the warning is on .. its a sensor problem

If the motors don't move .. you've found the problem

Sometims the act of the tech 2 moving the motors over their whole range seems to "clean" something up and they start to work corectly again, at which point the warning disappears

:)
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: duggs on 05 February 2011, 00:05:59
Understood kind Sir. So your advice for now is to hang on and get it Tech 2 checked...hopefully at a meet somewhere.

Baring in mind that BOTH headlights came in and out of my car at least a dozen times over Xmas perhaps one of the motors isn't sitting right...I'll have a fumble over the weekend.
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 February 2011, 00:11:07
You can sometimes disconnect the arms from the sensors and work the lights up and down by turning the sensor arms. Might highlight which motor / sensor has a problem. The trouble is, the system often goes into a "safe" mode when a fault occurs and it winds both motors down to the lowest position and won't adjust them any more.

Kevin
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: duggs on 05 February 2011, 00:14:47
Hmmmmmmm !   Least they point straightish at the moment. Sure don't want them point at my feet..LOL
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: feeutfo on 05 February 2011, 00:42:36
Hi duggs, if the sensors on the suspension arms look intact and connected with nothing dangling, and all be it a little tired, then that's good. Next thing to check is the motors in the back of the lights.

If you've had the lights out a couple of times you'll be familiar with the procedure, and the the motors on the back, they are a twist and lock affair and the nylon ball inside the lightl that controles the reflector angle has to locate correctly in it's fitting inside the light to work or there's no movement, it can be plugged in to the housing but the nylon ball must also be correctly located inside. Or the motor has failed. Suggest a visual check that it's connected and looks healthy, no rust water or broken parts within the motor mechanism.

Tech 2 can test a working system sure enough, but iirc from the Oxford meet TB was trying to diagnose a similar fault, but once the hid leveling system had recorded a fault it was not possible for tech 2 to communicate with that system further. It had shut down.

I'm sure he'll confirm or otherwise if he sees this.


As said though your problem is with the hid levelling system that should automatically adjust the reflector. Not the beam alignment adjuster on the head light top or with the self levelling suspension system.
Adjusting the light beam on the road is done with the levelling system working at a given angle of the reflector which moves, if the system fails the reflector, and hence the beam on the road, defaults to it's lowest position to stop dazzling of other drivers. Fix the hid levelling system and the light beam will return to the correct angle/position on the road.

It can be a bugger to diagnose. Some have had wiring faults to the sensors, the sensors themselves fall apart, or the motors fail to work in the light...or an associated other wiring fault is possible but less likely, check the plug connections on the light/motors too.

Hth.....? If a little late.  :)
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 February 2011, 00:51:07
Quote
Tech 2 can test a working system sure enough, but iirc from the Oxford meet TB was trying to diagnose a similar fault, but once the hid leveling system had recorded a fault it was not possible for tech 2 to communicate with that system further. It had shut down.

Once the system has got the hump about a fault it won't let you do an actuator test on the motors, stupidly, so you can't check them. You should by then have a fault code that indicates what it doesn't like though.

Kevin
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: feeutfo on 05 February 2011, 01:03:38
Quote
Quote
Tech 2 can test a working system sure enough, but iirc from the Oxford meet TB was trying to diagnose a similar fault, but once the hid leveling system had recorded a fault it was not possible for tech 2 to communicate with that system further. It had shut down.

Once the system has got the hump about a fault it won't let you do an actuator test on the motors, stupidly, so you can't check them. You should by then have a fault code that indicates what it doesn't like though.

Kevin
Yes I think there was an issue with getting the fault code, or the code was not specific enough, ie which motor...or something like.
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: duggs on 05 February 2011, 01:26:22
"If you've had the lights out a couple of times you'll be familiar with the procedure, and the the motors on the back, they are a twist and lock affair and the nylon ball inside the lightl that controles the reflector angle has to locate correctly in it's fitting inside the light to work or there's no movement, it can be plugged in to the housing but the nylon ball must also be correctly located inside. Or the motor has failed. Suggest a visual check that it's connected and looks healthy, no rust water or broken parts within the motor mechanism."

How can you ensure that the said nylon ball is correctly located. Had to move the motor to get at a ballast screw and iicr correctly there was some sort of cable thingy coming from it going into the light.

Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: feeutfo on 05 February 2011, 09:34:11
Quote
"If you've had the lights out a couple of times you'll be familiar with the procedure, and the the motors on the back, they are a twist and lock affair and the nylon ball inside the lightl that controles the reflector angle has to locate correctly in it's fitting inside the light to work or there's no movement, it can be plugged in to the housing but the nylon ball must also be correctly located inside. Or the motor has failed. Suggest a visual check that it's connected and looks healthy, no rust water or broken parts within the motor mechanism."

How can you ensure that the said nylon ball is correctly located. Had to move the motor to get at a ballast screw and iicr correctly there was some sort of cable thingy coming from it going into the light.

Didn't see a cable on mine. As I recall, it's not just a case of fitting the motor into the twist and lock socket in the back of the head light, you have to insure the White nylon ball locates in the mechanism within while fitting.

With motor removed there's nothing to stop the reflector mechanism inside flopping around, so it may well be in a differant position when refitting the motor and not locate correctly.

If all was well before removal, and the fault arose directly after on next use, it could well be your problem, or similar related.....? When did the fault arise in relation to the work done?
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: duggs on 05 February 2011, 09:43:16
Literally within the last few days.  The lights were last removed and refitted about 4 weeks ago....worked fine since then until Thursday then the message appeared.
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: feeutfo on 05 February 2011, 10:15:38
Hmmm, fault should have come up before now then, still say next place to look is the motors though. I guess the farnborough cam belt meet is a bit far? Perhaps we could swap motors and see if that cures it after a bit of tech2ing thrown in for clues?
Title: Re: Low fld/Vision
Post by: duggs on 05 February 2011, 17:37:01
Well....Had rear shocks AND springs down plus the front wishbones.

THEN had the lights out again and checked the motors...I have a spare and got the same "check" message no matter what motor I tried.

Tis a bit tricky ensuring the ball joint fits properly, esuming I got them right of course. The motor assembly hovers over the hole and you have to assume you're placing ity correctly...what a game ?