Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: miggy on 24 January 2008, 18:37:17
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Picture this
It is 10.00pm on a Saturday night, and you go to pick up your daughter from her friends..you pick her up and on the way back home you have to drive through a suburb at 11.00pm..this area has pubs on each side of the road and they are all turning out, there are people crossing the road in crowds, people milling about the area,all full of beer. You know the area and drop your speed from 30mph to approximately 20 - 25mph because you can see all the well intoxicated people about.
As you are approaching a pub on your left hand side that is situated approximately 4 foot from the kerb edge, you see 2 girls run out of the doorway of the pub and 1 of them runs into the road, you have anticipated what she is about to do and start to brake and sound your horn, there is nothing coming towards you so you manover your car towards the centre white line, you are in full control, because of your actions the girl runs into the side of your car by the passenger side, the door mirror spins her around and she falls to the floor, as she falls to the floor her leg goes under the back wheel and causes a broken leg. You stop your car approximately 4 yards past where she impacted on the door, pull onto the left of the road, switch off you engine,turn on the hazards and as you get out you tell your wife to lock the doors and call for the emeggancy services. You run to the injured girl and try to comfort her, she is so drunk she does not feel any pain.
The traffic police arrive along with the local beat police, the beat police breathalise you and you pass as you have had no alcohol that day.
The beat police take statements off everyone. The traffic police walk around your car, check the tax and tyres, get into their car and drive away.
You then get up on the Sunday, inform you insurance company and produce your documents to the local police station, job done, all ok, away you go. You then get a letter from the police saying there is no further action to be taken by them.
12 months later you get a letter from the solicitor acting for the injured girl, this letter states, you did not stop, you did not brake in time, you mounted the kerb and you were speeding and a load of other accusations.
The insurance contact your witnesses, 4 of them, they all state exactly what is above, ie you are not at fault.
Another 6 months later you get a visit from your insurance companies solicitor, he needs to take other statements from you as the incident is going to court, and he informs you that even though you were not at fault the court could go her way, this could cost you 3 points and a fine, and lose your no claims.
The above is what happend to me, and the solicitor came to my home today.
If what was said to me happens i will lose ALL faith in the system and i dont think its right that i should be punished for something that clearly states, she ran into me, and if it was not for my quick response she could have gone over the bonnet, sustaining more injuries.
Wheres the justice in that.
Sorry for the length of the post but what are your thoughts.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Hi
You are being treated terribly by the "system" but that is what this country is coming to, I am afraid it is the "compensation culture" which is driving this, and ultimatly the innocent will suffer.
I feel for you.
Mike
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if the courts let this go in her favour then the law is an a$$......
it's a blame/claim culture we live in now, even when it is their fault they want you to pay the price....
the silly cow shouldn't have been so drunk......oh and use the green cross code ;)
i would bet this is driven by a greed solicitor or family member....
sounds silly but how old is the girl, if she was under 18 is there not some way you could use the law to your advantage i.e. underage=illegal activity, there are some instances where trying t sue someone who was doing something illegal at the time will throw the case out of court
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That sucks Miggy, i can't fully believe what i have just read :o
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I just wonder if there's any mileage in putting in a counter claim for your costs, any loss of earnings, emotional stress etc etc etc.
Presumably, the girl is claiming through some form of no claim no fee outfit? Or, maybe a domestic insurance policy with legal costs cover?
I take it that the solicitor who called today is acting for your insurance company and not for you? If this is the case, you need to contact a solicitor yourself and without further delay. Check all of your domestic insurance policies, many of them have legal expenses insurance included in the premium. I once claimed for this through my building insurance. Keep us posted Pete.
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I'm no expert but surely the fact that the police investigated the incident and found you hadn't commited any offence will mean that you won't be prosecuted.
In a court the opinion of the traffic police who attended will carry much greater weight than that of an ambulance chasing solicitor.
I think as said previously you need to take independant legal advice which is free for the first hour IIRC.
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I'm no expert but surely the fact that the police investigated the incident and found you hadn't commited any offence will mean that you won't be prosecuted.
In a court the opinion of the traffic police who attended will carry much greater weight than that of an ambulance chasing solicitor.
I think as said previously you need to take independant legal advice which is free for the first hour IIRC.
There is not report from the traffic police, just the beat police and that is not very good, it is just a basic report from what i have seen, my insurance solicitor did say that the courts go in favor of the pedestrian in 90% of cases.
>:( >:( >:(
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I'm no expert but surely the fact that the police investigated the incident and found you hadn't commited any offence will mean that you won't be prosecuted.
In a court the opinion of the traffic police who attended will carry much greater weight than that of an ambulance chasing solicitor.
I think as said previously you need to take independant legal advice which is free for the first hour IIRC.
There is not report from the traffic police, just the beat police and that is not very good, it is just a basic report from what i have seen, my insurance solicitor did say that the courts go in favor of the pedestrian in 90% of cases.
>:( >:( >:(
Think I'd be asking hotel21s opinion if I were you Pete.
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I'm no expert but surely the fact that the police investigated the incident and found you hadn't commited any offence will mean that you won't be prosecuted.
In a court the opinion of the traffic police who attended will carry much greater weight than that of an ambulance chasing solicitor.
I think as said previously you need to take independant legal advice which is free for the first hour IIRC.
There is not report from the traffic police, just the beat police and that is not very good, it is just a basic report from what i have seen, my insurance solicitor did say that the courts go in favor of the pedestrian in 90% of cases.
>:( >:( >:(
Think I'd be asking hotel21s opinion if I were you Pete.
:y
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that's unreal, i remember you mentioning this a while back
i hope they find in your favour i really do
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Picture this
The above is what happend to me, and the solicitor came to my home today.
If what was said to me happens i will lose ALL faith in the system and i dont think its right that i should be punished for something that clearly states, she ran into me, and if it was not for my quick response she could have gone over the bonnet, sustaining more injuries.
Wheres the justice in that.
Sorry for the length of the post but what are your thoughts.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Call the Police and also sue him for harrasment >:(
If the Police were happy ask them to send the self-abuser a statement
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I'm no expert but surely the fact that the police investigated the incident and found you hadn't commited any offence will mean that you won't be prosecuted.
In a court the opinion of the traffic police who attended will carry much greater weight than that of an ambulance chasing solicitor.
I think as said previously you need to take independant legal advice which is free for the first hour IIRC.
There is not report from the traffic police, just the beat police and that is not very good, it is just a basic report from what i have seen, my insurance solicitor did say that the courts go in favor of the pedestrian in 90% of cases.
>:( >:( >:(
Oh dear - still ask them anyway.
If you have witnesses bring them in too
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Picture this
The above is what happend to me, and the solicitor came to my home today.
If what was said to me happens i will lose ALL faith in the system and i dont think its right that i should be punished for something that clearly states, she ran into me, and if it was not for my quick response she could have gone over the bonnet, sustaining more injuries.
Wheres the justice in that.
Sorry for the length of the post but what are your thoughts.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Call the Police and also sue him for harrasment >:(
If the Police were happy ask them to send the self abuser a statement
The solicitor was from my insurance company
:y
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Bloody typical >:(
It doesn't pay to be honest these days. I would go and buy and old banger for cash, take the plates off it and go and do the job properly this time, make her earn the money.
But seriously I feel for you, a similar thing happened to me 2 years ago :(
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That totally sucks >:(, as already mentioned above this will be getting mileage from some claim solicitors, I have had this before via work, claims a year after the actual event, however went in our favour.
The fact that she ran into your car and that she was probably intoxicated and not in control, should surely be in your favour and not even get to court. Would imagine the claim is under 5k so would probably get heard in civil court?, you need to find out what they/she are actually claiming for e.g., injuries and costs. Find out who their solicitors are, you may well find they are the no win no fee bunch.
Even seek independent advice, just for a second opinion, should in the unlucky event it go against you, find out what your options are for appealing. I would'nt let this one go. No doubt you will have the full backing of Forum members here. Go and see a barrister or Q.C. and claim your costs back they will potentially be able to run circles round your run of the mill solicitors. :y
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iam sorry your being put through this (she proberbly needs a deposit for a house or similar) Did your insurance bod say they are going to fight the claim or bottle out and settle out of court , has a court date been set .
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Do you have legal cover? If so, there will be an advice line you should contact and I'm guessing they'll pay for legal representation.
As said, no win, no fee batsrads >:(
I would press the Police for something, too, because they're the best card you could play. Surely there's a record of who attended the scene?
What is the world coming to?
Kevin
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iam sorry your being put through this (she proberbly needs a deposit for a house or similar) Did your insurance bod say they are going to fight the claim or bottle out and settle out of court , has a court date been set .
Thats what i was thinking, will they just settle out of court to save money,
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Thanks for all your responses, I am going to take some advice you all gave and see someone independantly.
:y
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iam sorry your being put through this (she proberbly needs a deposit for a house or similar) Did your insurance bod say they are going to fight the claim or bottle out and settle out of court , has a court date been set .
Thats what i was thinking, will they just settle out of court to save money,
What would be unfair about that, as i asked the solicitor that question, he said that from his experiance i would still lose the no claims.
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iam sorry your being put through this (she proberbly needs a deposit for a house or similar) Did your insurance bod say they are going to fight the claim or bottle out and settle out of court , has a court date been set .
Thats what i was thinking, will they just settle out of court to save money,
What would be unfair about that, as i asked the solicitor that question, he said that from his experiance i would still lose the no claims.
Don't let them settle out of court >:(, fight the b****y case :y
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iam sorry your being put through this (she proberbly needs a deposit for a house or similar) Did your insurance bod say they are going to fight the claim or bottle out and settle out of court , has a court date been set .
Thats what i was thinking, will they just settle out of court to save money,
What would be unfair about that, as i asked the solicitor that question, he said that from his experiance i would still lose the no claims.
Don't let them settle out of court >:(, fight the b****y case :y
He said they would
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Pete, you are right to seek independant legal representation.
There are two separate and distinctly different issues here.
1. The civil action
2. The criminal liability
The girl can claim that you were negligent and that your actions caused her such damage that she is financially out of pocket. This action would take place in the County Court and is a purely civil case. There is no possibility that this court could put points on your license or give you any form of driving conviction, it is totally outside of it's jurisdiction.
The police have already said that they don't intend to take any action against you so I wouldn't worry about that unless new evidence comes to light which may make the prospect of a conviction more likely than it was over a year ago.
If you were to lose a civil action then you are covered for the damages to the girl but, as you say, you would lose your 'no claims discount' unless you have this covered.
When all is said and done, a solicitor will tell you all you need to know and will be acting on your behalf. :)
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i dont know if helps but this place was used by a i cabbie i know who had similar problem http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/motoringadvice.htm
hth
darren
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First off, get proper independant legal advice. We can all pontificate to a greater or lesser degree but circumstances like these need a real solicitor, not one who gained their qualifications via a few pints in the bar and friend of a friend heresay.
Having said that, will offer my tuppenceworth as have been requested.... I can only relate to the systems that operates north of the border but no doubt there will be distinct similarities between Scots and English systems which both have Criminal law and Civil law.
This reads like the Criminal case - the Police Involvement - started and finished at the time of the incident and fault was found to be that of the girl, nothing to the driver. The level of proof required at this time would be 'beyond all reasonable doubt'. A fine and/or points can only be determined within a Criminal Court.
The Civil case is now being progressed by the girl. I have been summonsed to the Court of Session (highest civil court in Scotland) on numerous occassions, sometimes upto 6 or 7 years after the date of incident. The level of proof required now, at this stage, is defined by 'the balance of probabilities'. Note the distinct difference. A civil case cannot determine a fine or points on a defendants licence so, unless there is a glaring difference between our two systems, the fine/points thing is at an end.
There will have been a police report of some form made at the time. It should include the names of all who had a bearing on the incident including the Officers concerned, which should also including Trafpol but not always. Force policies vary. If not, those attending should be able to ascertain same from notebooks, call centre logs, shift rotas or simple memory. These people are all witnesses to the case and, by the reading of your scenario, would be classed as on your side as it were.... That report is available to the Insurance company on payment of a small fee.
You pay an insurance premium. That buys a number of things including the potential payout to the girl but not least of which are the services of the insurance companies legal team for cases such as this in order to fight the case and reduce the insurance companies potential payout.
Sadly, a number of insurance companies will pay an out of court settlement rather than involve a team of folks to fight the matter at incredulous daily rates.
I suggest that you get the 'legal team' of the insurance company very much on your side and cause them to get a case prepared. That specifically includes precognosing all those who attended the scene who intimate she ran into the side of your car.
As it reads, your no claims bonus is already on a shaky nail by the very presence of this claim so, in the nicest possible way, you have nothing further to loose by pressing the matter.
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Don't get time to post much but this one struck a chord with me. Almost identical situation happened to one of my staff (in company car) 12 months back and police agreed pedestrian at fault at time. 6 months later claim from pedestrian arrived via my insurance company detailing back/neck etc etc loss earnings etc. Insurance company only interested in settlement until we pushed to get statements from police who attended and other witnesses around at time. Best bit was when we had name of claimant we got googling and found relevant facebook/myspace pages and found dated pictures of her out on town/ cycling/generally out enjoying herself when injuries were supposedly at their worst. Also statements in her blog indicated ours was one of many similar attempts. Unsurprisingly claim withdrawn but still absorbed lot of management and staff time. :(
Best of luck
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First off, get proper independant legal advice. We can all pontificate to a greater or lesser degree but circumstances like these need a real solicitor, not one who gained their qualifications via a few pints in the bar and friend of a friend heresay.
Having said that, will offer my tuppenceworth as have been requested.... I can only relate to the systems that operates north of the border but no doubt there will be distinct similarities between Scots and English systems which both have Criminal law and Civil law.
This reads like the Criminal case - the Police Involvement - started and finished at the time of the incident and fault was found to be that of the girl, nothing to the driver. The level of proof required at this time would be 'beyond all reasonable doubt'. A fine and/or points can only be determined within a Criminal Court.
The Civil case is now being progressed by the girl. I have been summonsed to the Court of Session (highest civil court in Scotland) on numerous occassions, sometimes upto 6 or 7 years after the date of incident. The level of proof required now, at this stage, is defined by 'the balance of probabilities'. Note the distinct difference. A civil case cannot determine a fine or points on a defendants licence so, unless there is a glaring difference between our two systems, the fine/points thing is at an end.
There will have been a police report of some form made at the time. It should include the names of all who had a bearing on the incident including the Officers concerned, which should also including Trafpol but not always. Force policies vary. If not, those attending should be able to ascertain same from notebooks, call centre logs, shift rotas or simple memory. These people are all witnesses to the case and, by the reading of your scenario, would be classed as on your side as it were.... That report is available to the Insurance company on payment of a small fee.
You pay an insurance premium. That buys a number of things including the potential payout to the girl but not least of which are the services of the insurance companies legal team for cases such as this in order to fight the case and reduce the insurance companies potential payout.
Sadly, a number of insurance companies will pay an out of court settlement rather than involve a team of folks to fight the matter at incredulous daily rates.
I suggest that you get the 'legal team' of the insurance company very much on your side and cause them to get a case prepared. That specifically includes all those who attended the scene who intimate she ran into the side of your car.
As it reads, your no claims bonus is already on a shaky nail by the very presence of this claim so, in the nicest possible way, you have nothing further to loose by pressing the matter.
Well thats good to know, thank you for your very informative response.
:y :y :y
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:(
Bad chance!
Did the police breathelise her ?
Did the police make brake trace length measurement and schema of
accident area..
and do you have any damage pictures from your car where she hit the
door or the mirror ..
Also go through the sayings of witnesses ..
As father and mother are both lawyers from my experience I know
you need to prove your story also in the court :(
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Picture this
The above is what happend to me, and the solicitor came to my home today.
If what was said to me happens i will lose ALL faith in the system and i dont think its right that i should be punished for something that clearly states, she ran into me, and if it was not for my quick response she could have gone over the bonnet, sustaining more injuries.
Wheres the justice in that.
Sorry for the length of the post but what are your thoughts.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Call the Police and also sue him for harrasment >:(
If the Police were happy ask them to send the self abuser a statement
The solicitor was from my insurance company
:y
Whoops :(
Sorry!