Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Shelby on 20 April 2011, 13:08:52
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How much of a job is replacing the head on a V reg 2.0l 16v(time and effort wise). I have never done one before but am potentially willing as I want to learn more of my own car maintenance.
I am looking at all available options at the moment with respect to my broken manifold stud. I can get a replacement head (tested) from a breaker for £97 delivered.
Not happy about my abilty to deal with the broken stud, even if I took the old head off and ideally need to get the job done over a weekend as I will need the car for work, so thinking it may be easier to do a straight replacement of the head? I could then tinker with the stud / old head as a learning item, if I got it out would potentially have a used head to sell.
Would need to get a torque wrench, but apart from that I think I would probably have everything else I would need to do the job (apart from experience).
My local garage who have worked on previous cars are £40 p/h + vat, so the cost of getting them to remvoe the stud could quite easily go higher than the cost of the replacement head.
Any thoughts or ideas more than welcome.
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To behonest I would just man up and get manifold stud out. Definantly a lot more work involved replacing your head then just removing a manifold stud. Just drill and re tap it. Or weld a bolt to it and extract it that way.
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Don't forget you will need a new head gasket set when replacing the head. Its also worth while replaci g you cam belt etc if that hasn't been done recently as it has to come off anyway
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To behonest I would just man up and get manifold stud out. Definantly a lot more work involved replacing your head then just removing a manifold stud. Just drill and re tap it. Or weld a bolt to it and extract it that way.
;D
I have seriously considered it, my only concern is if I couldn't do it over the weekend I would be buggered for work the following week.
I am very good at convincing myself I can't do things (bad personal trait haha), when in reality I probably could. Maybe I just need that little extra size 9 up the butt to get me going, no time like the present I suppose.
Might just bite the bullet and get on with it, then just deal with the 'aftermath' if/when it happens.
Don't forget you will need a new head gasket set when replacing the head. Its also worth while replaci g you cam belt etc if that hasn't been done recently as it has to come off anyway
That was something I was taking into consideration aswell, as I can't get info on when the cam belt was last done (even though it has vauxhall dealer stamps from 2003-2009).
So thought the potential added expense of doing all that as a job lot now, when I have to pay out £xxx anyway, might end up saving me a bit of time / money later.
Replacement manifold is already en route (current one is cracked and filled anyway) if it arrives this week I may well have a go at it this weekend, I mate at work has some easy outs also which may be useful to have at hand.
Do you reckon it would be good practice to replace all the studs when the manifold is off anyway incase any of them others are weakened, or should it be OK. There is only 1 broken that I know of.
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Whip manifold off and see how easy you can get to it.
Worst case, just re-fit manifold without that stud, to get you by for work.
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To behonest I would just man up and get manifold stud out. Definantly a lot more work involved replacing your head then just removing a manifold stud. Just drill and re tap it. Or weld a bolt to it and extract it that way.
How long does it take to get a broken stud out? ::) ::) ::) ::) An Easy-out might take a few minutes, but what about when the Easy-out has broken in there too - spark eroding?
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Whip manifold off and see how easy you can get to it.
Worst case, just re-fit manifold without that stud, to get you by for work.
Thats pretty much where I am at the moment. Definately taking manifold off on Friday, have already sourced the gaskets, replacement stud(s) etc.
You never know, I might be really lucky when I take the manifold off and find a chunk of the stud protruding, which happily accepts a couple of bolts and comes out fairly easily .... however, back in the real world, I know what my luck is like hahaha.
If I wasn't reliant on the car then I would have no problem taking it on risk that I may not sort it. If my wifes moped wasn't in the repair shop (after a builder, doing our soffits and facias, fell through our garage roof onto it and trashed it), a perfect example of our luck haha, I would just use our emergency run around (£200 peug 106), but she is using that for work at the moment.
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Right, the decision is made, the manifold is coming off on Friday and will take it from there.
Just a couple of pointers would be useful if you guys don't mind.
- As far as I am aware, it would be easier to remove the stud with the engine warm, is that correct?
- If the above is correct, is it best to run the engine to warm it before or after taking the manifold off? Main thing here is in regard to undoing the existing bolts holding it on.
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I think it should help matters if everything's warm, but probably doesn't make that much difference.
Do you have some long-ish extensions for 3/8" square drive socket stuff? Undoing the 4 bolts that hold the downpipe to the manifold is mostly a 'from beneath' job, which will be much easier if you have some extensions that you can bung together in various combinations to get a few different lengths. Jack and support the front of the car reasonably high to give yourself space under there too. Be safe, use axle stands, and chocks round the back wheels ideally, as well as a firmly applied handbrake.
There's one of the four bolts you have to (un)do from the engine bay IIRC, no clear path to it from beneath due to the shape of the downpipes
Get some PlusGas on all the manifold nuts/studs, and the 4 bolt threads of the manifold/downpipe connection now, then again tomorrow. With a bit of luck everything should undo nicely on Friday then.
My last piece of advice: if the broken stud is more-or-less flush with the face of the head (i.e nothing to grab/weld to) take your time getting a good centrepunch mark right in the centre of it before you do any drilling for the easy-out. Then get someone to watch while you drill to try to make sure your hole is nice and straight, right up the middle of what's left of the stud. If you go off centre or off straight, it'll make life much harder for the easy-out. Oh, and don't drill too deep! Look at one of the new studs, and mark your drill with tape for no further than the end of the stud. You really dont want to be drilling into alloy beyond the original hole.
Good luck. :)
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I think it should help matters if everything's warm, but probably doesn't make that much difference.
Do you have some long-ish extensions for 3/8" square drive socket stuff? Undoing the 4 bolts that hold the downpipe to the manifold is mostly a 'from beneath' job, which will be much easier if you have some extensions that you can bung together in various combinations to get a few different lengths. Jack and support the front of the car reasonably high to give yourself space under there too. Be safe, use axle stands, and chocks round the back wheels ideally, as well as a firmly applied handbrake.
There's one of the four bolts you have to (un)do from the engine bay IIRC, no clear path to it from beneath due to the shape of the downpipes
Get some PlusGas on all the manifold nuts/studs, and the 4 bolt threads of the manifold/downpipe connection now, then again tomorrow. With a bit of luck everything should undo nicely on Friday then.
My last piece of advice: if the broken stud is more-or-less flush with the face of the head (i.e nothing to grab/weld to) take your time getting a good centrepunch mark right in the centre of it before you do any drilling for the easy-out. Then get someone to watch while you drill to try to make sure your hole is nice and straight, right up the middle of what's left of the stud. If you go off centre or off straight, it'll make life much harder for the easy-out. Oh, and don't drill too deep! Look at one of the new studs, and mark your drill with tape for no further than the end of the stud. You really dont want to be drilling into alloy beyond the original hole.
Good luck. :)
Thanks, I don't have plusgas but do have a fair bit of WD40. I take it that will be good enough, or at the very least its better than doing nothing? ;)
Most of my sockets etc. are 1/2" drive, I have a 10" and 24" breaker bars with at least 2 different length extension bars.
I am hoping I can get away without drilling it in situ, if I have to do that I will have to take the battery and other bits around that area out to give me room >:(
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May be worth your while having a 'dry-run' at getting what tools you have onto the bolts you need to reach. I seem to remember access is easier with narrower 3/8" stuff, may still be possible with 1/2" though.
Edit: Yes WD40 is better than nothing, but I prefer PlusGas as it is designed for that job, where WD40 is primarily a Water-Dispersant.
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Thanks, I don't have plusgas but do have a fair bit of WD40. I take it that will be good enough, or at the very least its better than doing nothing? ;) ....
WD40 isn't up to the job of a decent penetrating oil, PlusGas is so so much better & would be worth the investment. ;) ;) ;)
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May be worth your while having a 'dry-run' at getting what tools you have onto the bolts you need to reach. I seem to remember access is easier with narrower 3/8" stuff, may still be possible with 1/2" though.
Edit: Yes WD40 is better than nothing, but I prefer PlusGas as it is designed for that job, where WD40 is primarily a Water-Dispersant.
I do have some 3/8" sockets etc and I think I have at least one extension but not sure if I have a ratchet or anything else for them haha. Ill see what I can do with what I have and maybe get some other bits. Wouldn't hurt to extend my toolset a bit anyway if I am planning on doing more self maintenance.
If push comes to shove, I know the manager at the local kwikfit (dare I say that name on here ;D) and can always ask him nicely if he will put it on one of the ramps and loosen the bolts off for me.
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Thanks, I don't have plusgas but do have a fair bit of WD40. I take it that will be good enough, or at the very least its better than doing nothing? ;) ....
WD40 isn't up to the job of a decent penetrating oil, PlusGas is so so much better & would be worth the investment. ;) ;) ;)
OK thanks. Ive put some WD40 on them tonight (better than doing nothing) and will see if I can pick up some Plusgas tomorrow, to put on tomorrow evening.
On another note, does anyone know the size of female torx needed for the bolt in breather pipe (is that what it is, copper ish pipe on top of manifold)? I don't have any female torx sockets so will have to pick some up, just want to make sure I get some with the right size in it. Picture is in the thread below.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1302267251/9#9
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Secondary air injection pipes, but no, sorry I don't know the Torx size. Maybe same as those that hold the heatshield on? (Edit: E10 seeems to fit these). If you get a set with the right size for the heatshield screws, it'll be one size smaller if it's not the same, at a guess. :y
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Thanks, I suspect if I buy pretty much any standard set sizes they should cover it, just covering the bases haha.
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The game is afoot.
Have now found that there may be 3 broken studs Doh!
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7181/22042011132.jpg) (http://img135.imageshack.us/i/22042011132.jpg/)
Its no surprise really that it was blowing, not sure if it was the penetrating fluid or what, but even the bolts that were on there came undone very very easily.
Possibly looking at a leaking rocker cover gasket also (looking at the left side of the pic) and the thermostat housing looks like it has been bodge sealed (or is that normal?). Dread to think what else I am going to find the deeper I go!
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:'(
That's not looking too good. I wonder if they've all been caused by the leaking thermostat flange?
I would speculate that coolant leaking from the failed seal of the thermostat flange has corroded the nearest stud, or just thermally shocked it. Then once that one's let go, the manifold is no longer supported evenly, so the next stud gets loaded too much, then the next once that one's gone... :-/
What's the plan now? Drill and easy-out or head off?
Good luck anyway.
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I have easy outs but the problem is getting access to drill out those studs. There isn't much room unless I take out just about everything from the right side of the engine bay (battery and cables, power steering reservoir and pipes etc.) It may be easier to get the head off but might have to bite the bullet and put it in the garage to get it done.
Im picking up all the gaskets, new studs + bolts etc tomorrow and knew it needed a new theromostat so will replace that will I can get to it easy.
No idea how long it has been like that, it looks like its been 'patched up' for a while. Will probably replace all the studs incase any of them have been over stressed due to it being unevenly mounted and they are dirt cheap.
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If you have a torque wrench and cam lock - just whip the head off - probably easier
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If you have a torque wrench and cam lock - just whip the head off - probably easier
Unfortunately I don't although seriously looking at getting them as, especially the torque wrench.
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If you have a torque wrench and cam lock - just whip the head off - probably easier
Unfortunately I don't although seriously looking at getting them as, especially the torque wrench.
Well worth getting, it is nice to be able to do your own repairs
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Well ive sourced another drill which I recon ill be able to get to the broken bolts with. The thermostat is coming off anyway as it needed a new one, so that will give me a bit more room at the end.
Been putting some penetrating oil on all the studs today, will probably replace them all anyway, and have got all the studs, bolts, gaskets etc that I need to put it all back together.