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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: moggy on 13 April 2011, 20:13:01

Title: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: moggy on 13 April 2011, 20:13:01
Hi guys just a quick question.On Monday this week my coolant check light came on.I took the top off the tank and it was empty,i put in about a liter just to the line on the tank.This morning it was empty again,the thing is no sign of any water on the floor or engine.I even left it running for fifteen minutes when i got to work,looking under the car and in the engine compartment.Its been sound since daz and pete did my cam belt change 18 month's ago.Any advise much apreciated Moggy  :) :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 13 April 2011, 20:13:53
Is it around the 1998 mark?? ::)
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: kcl on 13 April 2011, 20:14:54
HBV is a good candidate as it leaks at the back of engine and coolant runs to hot exhaust so nothing will end up on the floor. Does it smell like that?
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: twiglet on 13 April 2011, 20:15:39
Heater Bypass Valve?  :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: moggy on 13 April 2011, 20:19:29
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Is it around the 1998 mark?? ::)
James date of first registration 1995,whys that mate :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 13 April 2011, 20:20:46
98 models had some problems with the NS head gasket leaking in rear corner

It's not that common, but can happen on any model with poor coolant servicing

Yours likely to be much more simple  :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: Entwood on 13 April 2011, 20:22:19
Header tank cap / neck ???  cap has a relieve valve in it that can fail.. neck can develop hairline cracks .. either will drop the pressure and cause the coolant to "boil"   ie .. evaporate....  much faster.

:)
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: moggy on 13 April 2011, 20:28:12
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HBV is a good candidate as it leaks at the back of engine and coolant runs to hot exhaust so nothing will end up on the floor. Does it smell like that?
Kcl there is a bit of a funny smell, but i cannot describe it mate.BTW its not the wife ;D :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: kcl on 13 April 2011, 20:29:59
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HBV is a good candidate as it leaks at the back of engine and coolant runs to hot exhaust so nothing will end up on the floor. Does it smell like that?
Kcl there is a bit of a funny smell, but i cannot describe it mate.BTW its not the wife ;D :y

My money is still on the HBV. You might even be able to see it with plenum and scuttle on  :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: moggy on 13 April 2011, 20:30:52
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98 models had some problems with the NS head gasket leaking in rear corner

It's not that common, but can happen on any model with poor coolant servicing

Yours likely to be much more simple  :y
James,should i have changed the coolant in the last 18 months :-/
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: moggy on 13 April 2011, 20:32:53
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HBV is a good candidate as it leaks at the back of engine and coolant runs to hot exhaust so nothing will end up on the floor. Does it smell like that?
Kcl there is a bit of a funny smell, but i cannot describe it mate.BTW its not the wife ;D :y

My money is still on the HBV. You might even be able to see it with plenum and scuttle on  :y
Kcl,where abouts is it :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: RobG on 13 April 2011, 20:40:07
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HBV is a good candidate as it leaks at the back of engine and coolant runs to hot exhaust so nothing will end up on the floor. Does it smell like that?
Kcl there is a bit of a funny smell, but i cannot describe it mate.BTW its not the wife ;D :y

My money is still on the HBV. You might even be able to see it with plenum and scuttle on  :y
Kcl,where abouts is it :y
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1193594464
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: kcl on 13 April 2011, 20:41:40
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HBV is a good candidate as it leaks at the back of engine and coolant runs to hot exhaust so nothing will end up on the floor. Does it smell like that?
Kcl there is a bit of a funny smell, but i cannot describe it mate.BTW its not the wife ;D :y

My money is still on the HBV. You might even be able to see it with plenum and scuttle on  :y
Kcl,where abouts is it :y
That should give an idea http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1181719948
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: chrisdb on 13 April 2011, 21:04:43
Hmm... with the strange smell my money would be on the heater matrix. Check if your front carpets are soaked.
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: moggy on 13 April 2011, 21:19:01
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Hmm... with the strange smell my money would be on the heater matrix. Check if your front carpets are soaked.
Thanks Chris i wiil check in the morning :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: moggy on 13 April 2011, 21:27:39
A big thanks to all,but unfortunately.1 I don't think i am up to doing it myself not mechanically minded.2 I don't really have the time at the mo as i am working all the hours god sends.3 Funds are very tight at the mo as i don't get paid till the end of the month.Is there anything i can do in the mean time :y :y :-/
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: Andy B on 13 April 2011, 21:30:45
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...Is there anything i can do in the mean time :y :y :-/

use the bus
borrow a car
keep a very close eye on the level

it won't fix itself & running without/with low coolant can cause over heating problems which eventually causes warped heads etc
It'll take you an hour or so to fit & £35 for a new valve.  :y :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: twiglet on 13 April 2011, 21:52:52
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A big thanks to all,but unfortunately.1 I don't think i am up to doing it myself not mechanically minded.2 I don't really have the time at the mo as i am working all the hours god sends.3 Funds are very tight at the mo as i don't get paid till the end of the month.Is there anything i can do in the mean time :y :y :-/

Honestly mate, I had exactly the same problem as you about a year ago. In fact, it was how I came across this forum.

All the experienced guys bon here said HBV, HBV, HBV!!! I thought nah, it can't be that simple!!

After a hole lot of worrying about head gaskets, buying a lemon, etc, etc. I pulled my finger out... spent 29 quid a new HBV, spent a couple of hours with a mate following the guides on here and hey presto, job done!!

Not everything in life is complicated and expensive...  :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: moggy on 13 April 2011, 21:59:48
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...Is there anything i can do in the mean time :y :y :-/

use the bus (to far to work)
borrow a car(every one i know use theirs)
keep a very close eye on the level(i will)

it won't fix itself & running without/with low coolant can cause over heating problems which eventually causes warped heads etc
It'll take you an hour or so to fit & £35 for a new valve.  :y :y
Thanks Andy,i could afford £35 and an hours work.Just worried i may make a mistake and not put something back right.Also I'm not sure its hbv or heater matrix,it would be great if an expert took a look and could tell me exactly.May take a run to see daz or pete. :y :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: Andy B on 13 April 2011, 22:19:33
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....Also I'm not sure its hbv or heater matrix,it would be great if an expert took a look and could tell me exactly.May take a run to see daz or pete. :y :y

Does your car particularly mist up inside? Or are your carpets at all wet? If yes to both it could be the matrix, but in all probability it'll be the HBV. HBVs can be OK on certain heating settings & leak on others. When mine last failed, I noticed a trail of water on the dry road I'd just turned around on & when I stuck my head under the car could see coolant trickling down behind the gearbox. When I turned the A/C off, the leak stopped.
Pretty sure there's a guide here somewhere & it'll not take you long. Apart from the thin vacuum line to the diaphragm inside, there are only 3 water pipes to/from it so not too difficult to get wrong (but not impossible  ::))  :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 14 April 2011, 12:09:04
What is your location Moggy?
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: moggy on 14 April 2011, 17:03:15
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What is your location Moggy?
James,i live five minutes from Birmingham international airport. :y BTW.Got home tonight coolant dripping down from the back of the engine :(
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: moggy on 14 April 2011, 17:05:54
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....Also I'm not sure its hbv or heater matrix,it would be great if an expert took a look and could tell me exactly.May take a run to see daz or pete. :y :y

Does your car particularly mist up inside? Or are your carpets at all wet? If yes to both it could be the matrix, but in all probability it'll be the HBV. HBVs can be OK on certain heating settings & leak on others. When mine last failed, I noticed a trail of water on the dry road I'd just turned around on & when I stuck my head under the car could see coolant trickling down behind the gearbox. When I turned the A/C off, the leak stopped.
Pretty sure there's a guide here somewhere & it'll not take you long. Apart from the thin vacuum line to the diaphragm inside, there are only 3 water pipes to/from it so not too difficult to get wrong (but not impossible  ::))  :y
Andy,no misting up or wet carpets :).But see my previous post :(
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 14 April 2011, 17:55:16
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What is your location Moggy?
James,i live five minutes from Birmingham international airport. :y BTW.Got home tonight coolant dripping down from the back of the engine :(

I am catching a flight from there, next Sunday, at lunchtime. I'm arriving three hours early for the flight (train times) so could potentially spare half hour or so if you wanted to meet me there and have me look under your bonnet...

How much do you rely on the car?
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: moggy on 14 April 2011, 18:41:53
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What is your location Moggy?
James,i live five minutes from Birmingham international airport. :y BTW.Got home tonight coolant dripping down from the back of the engine :(

I am catching a flight from there, next Sunday, at lunchtime. I'm arriving three hours early for the flight (train times) so could potentially spare half hour or so if you wanted to meet me there and have me look under your bonnet...

How much do you rely on the car?
James,without the car both me and the wife would be out of work.We travel 30 mile to work and back everyday,it would be great if you could have a look :) :y.Do you mean Sunday 24Th, if so do you think i should trust it till then :-/
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: twiglet on 14 April 2011, 20:11:32
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What is your location Moggy?
James,i live five minutes from Birmingham international airport. :y BTW.Got home tonight coolant dripping down from the back of the engine :(

Mate, its almost definitely the HBV! The HBV sits just under the scuttle "at the back of the engine"

You should be ok to continue using the car until James looks at it.  Just keep a very close eye on the coolant level, and keep plenty of water in the car for top ups!!  You'll be fine buddy!  :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: moggy on 14 April 2011, 20:24:09
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What is your location Moggy?
James,i live five minutes from Birmingham international airport. :y BTW.Got home tonight coolant dripping down from the back of the engine :(

Mate, its almost definitely the HBV! The HBV sits just under the scuttle "at the back of the engine"

You should be ok to continue using the car until James looks at it.  Just keep a very close eye on the coolant level, and keep plenty of water in the car for top ups!!  You'll be fine buddy!  :y
Cheers Twiglet,Btw is a heater bypass valve the same as a heater control valve.As someone said £35 but on ebay they are between £10 to £15. :-/ :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: Andy B on 14 April 2011, 21:55:10
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Cheers Twiglet,Btw is a heater bypass valve the same as a heater control valve.As someone said £35 but on ebay they are between £10 to £15. :-/ :y

same thing. but IIRC some forum members had problems with pattern HBVs failing prematurely. As it's such a PITA to change I'd bite the bullet & buy an OE part. I changed mine shortly after buying my car over 7 yrs ago & again 5 yrs later.  ;) ;) ;)
OE ..... you know it makes sense!  ;) ;) ;) :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 April 2011, 22:23:52
there are color dyes so you can pinpoint easier..

also omegas coolant leak areas are mostly common..

hbv
heater matrix
thermostat and oil cooler area (under inlet/plenum)
coolant cap (you can listen it when the engine is hot -silent place)
coolant hoses (rare)
head gasket (not the end of world)

ps: also normal coolant let some traces that can be seen by some black light (seen in service) but must be dark around..
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: chrisdb on 15 April 2011, 18:57:43
Moggy, I'm just about to fit a new HBV as a preventative measure and so will have the old one from my car which should be OK at least for a while so at least you won't have to spend any money. I can come over to Birmingham this Sunday morning and fit it for you if that's any good?... I don't charge but I wouldn't refuse lunch  :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: twiglet on 15 April 2011, 22:28:23
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Moggy, I'm just about to fit a new HBV as a preventative measure and so will have the old one from my car which should be OK at least for a while so at least you won't have to spend any money. I can come over to Birmingham this Sunday morning and fit it for you if that's any good?... I don't charge but I wouldn't refuse lunch  :y

Now that is what I call an offer you can't refuse!!! I can't think of anywhere outside of OOF where things like this happen!!

Good on ya mate!!  :y :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: moggy on 16 April 2011, 11:50:27
PM Sent to chrisdb,and you are right twiglet.The kindness and generosity of the people on oof is amazing,and restores your faith in human nature :) :) :y
Title: Re: coolant disappearing(but don't know where)
Post by: moggy on 24 April 2011, 13:43:47
A big thanks to Chris db,for coming all the way from chesterfield,to change my HBV.A smashing guy,you saved our jobs.If there's anything i can do for you just call :) :y :y.PS Hope you enjoyed lunch,thanks again Moggy :y