Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Boiler Man on 16 April 2011, 14:54:32
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Hi Guys
I hope someone can help me please.
I made the mistake of leaving the wife in the car and the keys in the ignition. (engine off) While i nipped into the shop. ::)
While I was away, she decides to follow me by closing the windows and taking the keys out of the ignition. I return before she is out of the car and I cant open the drivers door at all.
I have no idea what she did but now all the other doors will open and close with both the key and the fob.
The lock button on the drivers door drops and lifts with the rest of the doors, but neither the outside or inside handle will allow me to open the drivers door.
I suspect it may have something to do with the dead lock as I cant hear the second noise when I try to double lock it. :-/
I'm to big and fat to keep scrambling over the centre console :(
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Gaz
Ps I have a facelift 03 model estate.
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Clutching at a straw ... key in ignition, position 1, so all lights are on but engine not running... press lock, unlock. Remove key.
With any luck it "might" resynch the system ... :(
If the button then moves but the door remains jammed . something has come adrift inside the door at a guess.. :(
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have you tried the key in the driver's door lock? :-/
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First of all pull up the internal push button to ensure that the lock is fully unlocked after unlocking on the blipper. May be the unlocking solenoid is going flakey.
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Thanks for the quick reply guys
I've tried locking and unlocking with the fob with the key in the ignition (lights on) It doesnt seem to operate at all in that position.
If I put it in the ignition, without turning it and operate the fob, it will close open all the buttons. But drivers door still locked.
I can close / open locks with key in drivers door. All buttons go down and up. Driver door still locked.
I tried pushing the driver door button down and up and all the other buttons follow :-/
Still cant hear a second clunk when I operate the fob twice for dead lock. or if I double lock with the key in the drivers door.
Can I get the door card off with the door in the close position?
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Nope, I dont see how it would be possible. You should be able to unlock the drivers door manually with the key though. It often needs brute force to turn it though. :y
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As Albs has said you should still be able to mechanically unlock your dead-locked driver's door with the key. It appears that your locking motor for the driver's door has decided to die coincidently with your wife locking the car. You're now in the position of having a completely flat battery and will have to force the lock with the key ....... it may appear brutal but will work (assuming nothing has failed mechanically)
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Desperation mode now .....
Really straw clutching .... start the engine, run at about 2000 rpm and then try unlocking .... its vaguely possible .. and by no means likely .. that the higher voltage obtained that way might "just" be enough to trigger the lock to work ???
:(
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Desperation mode now .....
Really straw clutching .... start the engine, run at about 2000 rpm and then try unlocking .... its vaguely possible .. and by no means likely .. that the higher voltage obtained that way might "just" be enough to trigger the lock to work ???
:(
Now that's really really desperate mode Nige ::) ::) ::)
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Desperation mode now .....
Really straw clutching .... start the engine, run at about 2000 rpm and then try unlocking .... its vaguely possible .. and by no means likely .. that the higher voltage obtained that way might "just" be enough to trigger the lock to work ???
:(
Now that's really really desperate mode Nige ::) ::) ::)
Beats having to break the door card to get to the CL motor .... :( which is looking like the only other option .. :(
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sorry back to basics, not really sure if you've done this reading up thread, but have you open/closed the deadlocks?
Outside the car, lock it with remote. Then press lock a second time, that will deadlock it, then press open, and see if the door opens.
As the door pin is going up and down, and you can open it via the key in the lock, it really does point to a deadlock issue. :(
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Beats having to break the door card to get to the CL motor .... :( which is looking like the only other option .. :(
The driver's door has the ability to be mechanically UN dead-locked, like when the battery is as flat as a very flat thing. IMHO the OP isn't being forcefull enough to mechanically unlock it & uis stopping as soon as the elctrics take over, ie the same as when the key fob is doing its thing. So long as the door lock assembly hasn't fallen apart inside the door, I feel that the door should still be able to be unlocked withthe key. How many posts do we see during winter saying that they just can't get into their car with the key in the door despite us saying to force it & it WILL unlock.
I am willing to be proved wrong ... again ::) but I get a feeling I'm right. ;) ;) ;) ;)
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Beats having to break the door card to get to the CL motor .... :( which is looking like the only other option .. :(
The driver's door has the ability to be mechanically UN dead-locked, like when the battery is as flat as a very flat thing. IMHO the OP isn't being forcefull enough to mechanically unlock it & uis stopping as soon as the elctrics take over, ie the same as when the key fob is doing its thing. So long as the door lock assembly hasn't fallen apart inside the door, I feel that the door should still be able to be unlocked withthe key. How many posts do we see during winter saying that they just can't get into their car with the key in the door despite us saying to force it & it WILL unlock.
I am willing to be proved wrong ... again ::) but I get a feeling I'm right. ;) ;) ;) ;)
I hope you are .. but the fact that the door pin moves ...
I can close / open locks with key in drivers door. All buttons go down and up. Driver door still locked.
I tried pushing the driver door button down and up and all the other buttons follow
indicates to me that the CL is working in as much as the mechanism is activating AS FAR AS THE PINS, but the actual "lock" is not moving. I suspect that something has come adrift internally.
If the barrel is still connected to the lock then the "flat battery" scenario might work ... perhaps disconnecting the battery might allow this ?? At present the system "thinks" it is unlocking as the pins are all moving ??
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i had a prob with my pass door the outhr week.1 of my stupid kids tryed to open the door while i was unlocking it with the fob and it jammed uo.when pressing the fob the locking pin was jumping up and down but wouldnt open.in the end had the drivers door open and pressed the fob to lock and unlock it half a dossen times and it unlocked in the end.so try haveing the outher doors open and lock and unlock it with the fob and see if it unlocks.it worked for me so worth a try.paul
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Thanks for all your suggestions guys
I have tried unlocking and locking with a combination of other doors a jar at the same time. No Joy. :(
As mentioned the key lock of the drivers door turns a quarter and works fine, I really cant force it to go any further than it does.
I have tried turning it further after the pins jump up but it doesnt make any differance. Its as if the lock has unlocked but the handles are not triggering the latch that keeps the door closed.
Could it be the mechanisem that releases the door latch has disconnected from the handle or should I say lever.
I can hear and see movement down the gap with the window down, that there is something going on when I pull the handle.
I still cant hear a second clunk when I double lock for the deadlock, like I usually can. Which would suggest the dead lock has jammed? Which confuses matters. :-/
Can I take the door card off, with the door shut?
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The locking motors get really upset if either the inside or outside handle is lifted slightly when they are operating. Worth pushing the handles to make sure they are in the fully closed position and trying the unlock procedure again.
The door cards are held by a series of press studs, some screws through the armrests and finally by two or three self tapping screws in the bottom edge of the door card. It is the self tapping screws that are inaccessible with door closed :(
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Your not going to get the doorcard off without damaging it quite badly :(
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Thanks for everyones advice.
Is there a how to remove the door card somewhere?
For facelift model
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In the Maintenance section, check the index :y
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i have had this happen,you can't lock or unlock the drivers door lock and it just stays shut locked. if you try manually sticking the key in the door lock it won't do anything and i sorted it out by constantly opening and shuting the rcl and lifting the popper up and down until it worked.
then it was right as rain :D
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Hi Guys
Thanks for all your suggestions. I really have tried them all and really appreciate your help.
I really dont want to butcher my door card and I cant see any way of getting it off with the door shut.
I use this car for work, in and out of it all day. I'm self employed and business isn't great at the mo. I would take it to the dealers, if I knew they would sort it for a reasonable price. But I dont trust them.
Thinking logically with my limited knowledge.
It seems to be one of two things.
On one hand I think it is possible that the door is unlocking, but both the inside and outside handle/lever has somehow become disconnected and is not triggering the the simple final unlatching to spring the door open.
But on the other hand it is strange that the usual double clunk you hear when you dead lock the car is not heard anymore.
I often double lock the car with carrying tools around, so I am used to the sound.
Also and now I'm not so sure about this one,
But when you lock the doors. Doesn't the internal handles move in? Because mine are not doing this anymore? Or am I getting mixed up with one of my older cars?
Alternatively is there any way with the window down, that I can put a hook down the gap and spring the latch?
Thanks in Anticipation. :-/
Gaz
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the internal handles do not move when locking a mig,only the lock buttons go up and down,have you tried with the key in the door to apply pressure with the key and lift the outer handle,the lock button will not come up but the door should open
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If the mechanism has come unclipped inside the door, your friendly neighbourhood twocker should be able to open it.
or failing that the AA
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If the mechanism has come unclipped inside the door, your friendly neighbourhood twocker should be able to open it.
or failing that the AA
Sorry mate whats a Twocker? :-[
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If the mechanism has come unclipped inside the door, your friendly neighbourhood twocker should be able to open it.
or failing that the AA
Sorry mate whats a Twocker? :-[
A sctote who assumes the rights of an owner in order to to use the vehicle as they please.
Taking Without Owners Consent.
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O' I see
Not likely to find one of them, even if I wanted to.
AA wont touch it if I can gain access, which I can.
Looks like I'm Bo##ocksed then :(
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Lock button, locking motor and the lock lever on the door catch mechanism move together, so I'd say either the locking mechanism has failed or the connection to the door handle has come adrift (does it feel loose? Have you tried both the inside and outside handle?).
Might be worth asking a local recovery company if they'd have a look? They might have some tricks of the trade if they handle reposession / lock-out calls?
Presumably you could take the car to them, avoiding a callout charge? One of the guys might have a look for a bit of folding?
Failing that, I can't see an alternative to cutting a hole in the door card.
Kevin
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Lock button, locking motor and the lock lever on the door catch mechanism move together, so I'd say either the locking mechanism has failed or the connection to the door handle has come adrift (does it feel loose? Have you tried both the inside and outside handle?).
Might be worth asking a local recovery company if they'd have a look? They might have some tricks of the trade if they handle reposession / lock-out calls?
Presumably you could take the car to them, avoiding a callout charge? One of the guys might have a look for a bit of folding?
Failing that, I can't see an alternative to cutting a hole in the door card.
Kevin
Thanks Kevin
With the window down, I can prize a gap between the rubber and the glass and I can see both the handle and lock rods moving, but there is no serious resistance.
The inside lever seems to have a little more resistance and I can hear it moving near the lock area.
But it wont spring the door. It seems to me very unlikely that all 3 rods could come loose at once.
What do you think?
I've tried spraying WD into the gap between the door and the pillar where the lock is, but no joy :(
I keep wondering why I can't hear the dead lock 2 clunks when I lock twice, but this could just be confusing matters. :-/
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Thanks Kevin
With the window down, I can prize a gap between the rubber and the glass and I can see both the handle and lock rods moving, but there is no serious resistance.
The inside lever seems to have a little more resistance and I can hear it moving near the lock area.
But it wont spring the door. It seems to me very unlikely that all 3 rods could come loose at once.
What do you think?
I've tried spraying WD into the gap between the door and the pillar where the lock is, but no joy :(
I keep wondering why I can't hear the dead lock 2 clunks when I lock twice, but this could just be confusing matters. :-/
Is it worth removing the window seal? Perhaps that'll give you a little more access?
It is unlikely that both handles have become detached. IIRC, they have completely separate attachments to the lock mechanism.
Is it worth trying to push the door in as you open? Might take some pressure off the mechanism and if it's a little sticky it might just open.
Maybe the lock mechanism isn't unlocking fully? Worth trying to hold the knob to the maximum extent of its' travel while trying the door handle?
Can you get a bar down to the mechanism through which you could deliver a tap with a hammer? Not looking to muller it or the door, but perhaps, if something has jammed, it can be shocked free? :-/
Hmm. What a pain. >:(
Kevin
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Thanks again Kevin
Is it easy enough to get the rubbers off?
I could do with getting hold of a replacement mechanism so that I can understand how it works close up. I'm proberbly going to need one anyway.
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I still cant hear a second clunk when I double lock for the deadlock, like I usually can. Which would suggest the dead lock has jammed? Which confuses matters. :-/
The dead locks wont operate until the drivers door has been opened, after the ignition has been turned off. This is because the car thinks someone is still inside and doesn't want them to be locked in the vehicle!
It sounds as if something has become detached inside the door, you need to get the door card off which means damaging it, replacements should be available from one of the breakers on this site, or maybe even your local scrap yard.
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Thanks again Kevin
Is it easy enough to get the rubbers off?
I could do with getting hold of a replacement mechanism so that I can understand how it works close up. I'm proberbly going to need one anyway.
Yep. Certainly worth a look. That coupled with the symptoms might well give you a few pointers to what the problem is.
Take the one off the other side? That will show you how all the rods and levers that connect to it work..
Alternatively, ask in the parts for sale area.
Kevin
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I still cant hear a second clunk when I double lock for the deadlock, like I usually can. Which would suggest the dead lock has jammed? Which confuses matters. :-/
The dead locks wont operate until the drivers door has been opened, after the ignition has been turned off. This is because the car thinks someone is still inside and doesn't want them to be locked in the vehicle!
It sounds as if something has become detached inside the door, you need to get the door card off which means damaging it, replacements should be available from one of the breakers on this site, or maybe even your local scrap yard.
Thanks :y
That's logical.
Does anyone know how easy it is to remove the rubber weather strip, without the door card off?
I'm hoping to get at the lock that way first.
Cheers Gary
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Thanks again Kevin
Is it easy enough to get the rubbers off?
I could do with getting hold of a replacement mechanism so that I can understand how it works close up. I'm proberbly going to need one anyway.
Yep. Certainly worth a look. That coupled with the symptoms might well give you a few pointers to what the problem is.
Take the one off the other side? That will show you how all the rods and levers that connect to it work..
Alternatively, ask in the parts for sale area.
Kevin
Thanks Kevin
Thats a good idea. I've tried contacting Elite Pete, he is not far from me.
But its worth putting a wanted in the part sale section, just incase. :y
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Very peculiar one :-/ What I have understood is that the lock itself is ok, the key turns and does do "something", also the locking pin moves. This sounds good. Inside lever is connected to the lock itself, thats good also, IIRC the lever has no spring inside so if it was loose from the lock it would be "really loose" and no resistance would be felt.
My thought is that the door is jammed somehow. Meaning that it is locked but the lock is "jammed" to the counterpiece in the B-pillar :-/ Have you tried pushing the door VERY heavily inwards and the lift the handle?
It seems imho that there's nothing wrong with the locking mechanism. it is quite sturdy design and as long as the operating parts (key, lock pin, handles) move as expected it's hard to believe that the lock-unit is faulty. Also the CL motor is not the cause.
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Very peculiar one :-/ What I have understood is that the lock itself is ok, the key turns and does do "something", also the locking pin moves. This sounds good. Inside lever is connected to the lock itself, thats good also, IIRC the lever has no spring inside so if it was loose from the lock it would be "really loose" and no resistance would be felt.
My thought is that the door is jammed somehow. Meaning that it is locked but the lock is "jammed" to the counterpiece in the B-pillar :-/ Have you tried pushing the door VERY heavily inwards and the lift the handle?
It seems imho that there's nothing wrong with the locking mechanism. it is quite sturdy design and as long as the operating parts (key, lock pin, handles) move as expected it's hard to believe that the lock-unit is faulty. Also the CL motor is not the cause.
Thanks for the interest. It really is causing me problems.
Yes tried pushing the door in and out, at the same time as lifting the handle. It moves in slightly as obviously the door seals give a little.
Just to clarify.
I can't be sure the rods are connected to the locking mechanism itself, as I can't see it.
I can see that the outer door handle rod and the lock barrel rod are connected and moving at the top end - very little resistance though.
The inside handle moves with more resistance and I can hear it moving at the lock mechanism end. But I cant see if it is connected.
The button moves up and down with the central locking but I have a feeling that this is only reliant on a micro switch on the barrel, because if I dont twist the key far enough, it will still activate even if the key hasnt turned a full quater.
I have ordered a replacement locking mechanism off the internet, so that I can have a closer lock at the animal I'm dealing with. Which may help me tackle it full on. >:(
Thanks for everyones advice. I will let you know how I go on.
I really could do with knowing if I can take the rubber weather strip off, without the door card removed. If anyone knows?
So that I can get a better view. :y
Cheers Gaz
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I really could do with knowing if I can take the rubber weather strip off, without the door card removed. If anyone knows?
So that I can get a better view. :y
Cheers Gaz
The weather strip just clips onto the top edge of the door. You need a broad flat lever (scraper perhaps) to lever it off. Obviously be careful of the paint on the top of the door also the srips are easily mis-shaped ie banana shape so you need to gently do a bit at a time.
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I really could do with knowing if I can take the rubber weather strip off, without the door card removed. If anyone knows?
So that I can get a better view. :y
Cheers Gaz
The weather strip just clips onto the top edge of the door. You need a broad flat lever (scraper perhaps) to lever it off. Obviously be careful of the paint on the top of the door also the srips are easily mis-shaped ie banana shape so you need to gently do a bit at a time.
Thanks Andy B
I take it you work from the outside?
Rather than window open and work from the glass side?
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I take it you work from the outside?
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Yes ;) ;) :y
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Hi Guys
All Sorted Now Thanks All :y
Just thought I would update my help request, in case it can help someone in the future.
I decided to take the drivers seat out, to give me room to attack the door card with the door shut.
I managed to get most of the screws and componants off, with the exception of the 2 screws covered by the dash side. With a bit of brute force and ignorance, I managed to lift the card off at the lock end and with it still attached at the dash end, managed to get enough space to gain access to the lock mechanism.
Anyway conclusion is that the lock was damaged. The 4 pronged cog that sits on the end of the latch shaft had fallen off and no amount of lever pulling and pushing would have opened it.
But thanks for everyone suggestions and help. I wouldn't have managed it without you all.
I managed to get a pair of long nose pliers in and twist the shaft and open the door for the first time in a week, Yipeeee. :) :) :) :) :)
What a relief. Arriving on jobs and us both jumping out of the same side of the car, was confusing customers, apart from it being an absolute pain in the bum.
The 2 topics in the maintenace section on removing the card and the locking mechanism were a big help.
I will post a couple of photo's asap.
Cheers Gaz :y
PS - The double clunking deadlock works agian, looks like Brikhead was right, in that the deadlock wont operate after the ignition key is removed, untill the drivers door is opened. :y
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:o Damaged lock with cog and spring at the side.
(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l362/gaaz252259/DSC_1202.jpg)
Spot the difference the damaged one on the right and the replacement on the left with cog attached.
(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l362/gaaz252259/DSC_1203.jpg)
Can anyone advise me on what to use to reseal the door plastic sheet. The old glue went off and will not restick.
I don't wont it to stick back to strong, for obvious reasons.
Cheers Gaz
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Pretty much anything will do. Ordinary silicone sealant, sikaflex, duct tape, whatever you've got handy. After all, with the door card back on, it's not visible
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Well done Gaz - great end to an interesting thread. 8-) :y
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Can anyone advise me on what to use to reseal the door plastic sheet.
As said, Duct tape is what I always use...
:y
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Thanks for all your help guys
Much appreciated, saved the day, yet again. :):y
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It's been an interesting thread, and always good when a conclusion is reached. Thanks for posting the pics, and good luck putting it all back together :y
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I found myself with a closed and deadlocked door a couple of years ago - contemplated angle grinding a hole to get access to free the mechanism then buying a second hand door.
Solved eventually by releasing every accessible door trim fastening from the inside and prising the trim inwards from a top corner. With the trim wedged inwards as far as it will go there is just enough room to get long reach tools to the rear of the electro mechanical works from outside the car with the window open. There is a flimsy plastic cover (?water shield) which will have to be destroyed but behind that is a nut which can be turned to unlock the door.
Neither the solenoid nor any of the wire operating rods from the key lock or any of the inside or outside handles will free a mechanism as rusted and seized as mine was. £20 bought one as good as new from a breaker.
Not easy but it can be done.
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Thats vertually what I did John.
But I removed the seat to get better access.
The 4 pronged cog in the photo, that came off mine. Isn't exactly fixed very strongly even on the replacement. Flopping about a bit.
Seems to be a bit of a weak spot. :-/
Having said that, the car has done 185 K and I'm in and out all the time, so well used. :y
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I have been interested to read all the posts on this subject because I raised a similar point a few weeks ago when my passengar door refused to unlock (in my case the locking tab just jumps up and down slightly when using the remote but not enough to allow the door to be unlocked.
I have come to the conclusion that the door card cannot be removed with the door closed because some of the retaining screws are hidden by the dash.
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Glad you got it all sorted and, like me, you did not have to destroy the door card.
The other front lock mech on my car also seized recently - this time in the open position, ie would not latch.This time I put the mech in a vice and worked on it for a while to free it off, then smothered it in marine grease.
I am probably getting these faults earlier than most because the car sits out in salt air and sometimes sea spray, but as the cars get older more seizures can be expected.
They really do lock up solid but can be freed with a bit of patience and made to work again.