Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: mrgreen on 27 April 2011, 16:14:30
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Hi all i finally registered my car for the road today and took it out for a good test drive but i have a problem, i installed irmscher springs and bilstein b4's and in the curvies they are great but over pot holes there is just a thud what could that be?i don't think it's the drop arms as it seems to loud for that and the car feels like it has no suspension when this happens! also when backing off i get a slight vibration through the car but under load it's fine, if anyone has any ideas i would be as always much appreciative,
many thanks,
Rich.
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Drop links cheap and easy to fit - best way to eliminate these as not always obvious when knackered :y
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yes i had done my front ones but this is not really a clatter more a bang when i hit a pot hole which sounds like there's no suspension at all in the car!! but it rides well in the curves which i dont understand? i take it the rear drop links are connected to a sway bar could it be sway arm bushes knackered and the sway arm hitting the car somewhere? it's a bugger as it's going to get a four wheel set up on friday and i won't have time to check it before it goes.
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anyone else any ideas
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o.k i still have this problem and it's driving me mad could this be something to do with the way the back shocks were installed as i have been reading that some shocks need special washers to fix thumping over bumps?? anyone ever heard of this?
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Sumats loose somewhere. My front top shock mounts came loose due to lack of a 24 mill ring spanner. Other than that re trace steps. Have the rear top shock mounts been assembled in the correct order? Should get new mounts with the rear shocks?
Did you have a go at setting camber to something sensible?(front)
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Also wonder if the diff bush bolts are tight? Assuming this has happened after the work done, and was not present before?
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Sumats loose somewhere. My front top shock mounts came loose due to lack of a 24 mill ring spanner. Other than that re trace steps. Have the rear top shock mounts been assembled in the correct order? Should get new mounts with the rear shocks?
Did you have a go at setting camber to something sensible?(front)
now this is where i think the noise is coming from! it certainly sounds like it anyway as when you hit a bump where the whell actually drops it bangs on the return can you tell me the correct order so i can check! (first timer for shocks!) thanks Chris i knew you'd be along sooner or later to point me in the right direction, p.s i didn't undo the diff bolts to put the springs in :( and i didn't really drive the car before but my father in law did and he was suprised to hear this banging so i don't think it was there before.
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http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1208460516/0
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sorry to go on about this but today i got the car checked by a mechanic and he said it looked fine all was tight and secure, so i took one shock off and on doing this noticed the sleeve which the bolt goes through on the bottem is larger than the bolt which goes through it i'm geussing this is normal but could it be the cup washer rubber is worn causing sloppiness in the bottom of the shock or am i just not used to irmscher springs being so hard that it shakes the back of the car like it's got no suspension!
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sorry to go on about this but today i got the car checked by a mechanic and he said it looked fine all was tight and secure, so i took one shock off and on doing this noticed the sleeve which the bolt goes through on the bottem is larger than the bolt which goes through it i'm geussing this is normal but could it be the cup washer rubber is worn causing sloppiness in the bottom of the shock or am i just not used to irmscher springs being so hard that it shakes the back of the car like it's got no suspension!
Not sure I fully understand that tbh
If you have irmscher springs and b4 shocks all round then they should be same front and back. If there is a noise at the back only then there's a problem. Are the shocks not new?
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yes the shocks are new what i mean is the metal sleeve on the bottom of the shock(which sits a little into the hub) which the bolt goes through is larger in diameter than the bolt, but i geuss it's o.k as the bit which sits into the hub is the correct size. i geuss the estate springs are rated harder than saloon springs i am wondering if that's the problem, too hard, also while you're on Chris are michelin primacy a known tramliner because mine seem to be!, thanks for the replies Chris,
rich.
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Is it worth trying the old gm top shock mounts? :-/ Bilstein ones are harder.
Primacy not known for tram lining. But they all get worse as they wear. How much tread left?
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Is it worth trying the old gm top shock mounts? :-/ Bilstein ones are harder.
Primacy not known for tram lining. But they all get worse as they wear. How much tread left?
a good 6-7mm i think and as for trying the old top mounts me being an idiot kept everything form the change except the rear shocks why i don't know it's not like me to throw anything away >:( but i'm going to take the shock back out and make sure it's seated properly in the hole
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yes the shocks are new what i mean is the metal sleeve on the bottom of the shock(which sits a little into the hub) which the bolt goes through is larger in diameter than the bolt, but i geuss it's o.k as the bit which sits into the hub is the correct size. i geuss the estate springs are rated harder than saloon springs i am wondering if that's the problem, too hard, also while you're on Chris are michelin primacy a known tramliner because mine seem to be!, thanks for the replies Chris,
rich.
If it was the same diameter or smaller, the bolt wouldn`t go through ::) ;D
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yes the shocks are new what i mean is the metal sleeve on the bottom of the shock(which sits a little into the hub) which the bolt goes through is larger in diameter than the bolt, but i geuss it's o.k as the bit which sits into the hub is the correct size. i geuss the estate springs are rated harder than saloon springs i am wondering if that's the problem, too hard, also while you're on Chris are michelin primacy a known tramliner because mine seem to be!, thanks for the replies Chris,
rich.
If it was the same diameter or smaller, the bolt wouldn`t go through ::) ;D
;Dcorrect but this has play of about 1mm in it!! but i'm geussing the bolt floats on the rubber bush in the washer cup!
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Is it worth trying the old gm top shock mounts? :-/ Bilstein ones are harder.
Primacy not known for tram lining. But they all get worse as they wear. How much tread left?
a good 6-7mm i think and as for trying the old top mounts me being an idiot kept everything form the change except the rear shocks why i don't know it's not like me to throw anything away >:( but i'm going to take the shock back out and make sure it's seated properly in the hole
....and torque to 110nm....?
Has the car been set up? What are the final figures?
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Is it worth trying the old gm top shock mounts? :-/ Bilstein ones are harder.
Primacy not known for tram lining. But they all get worse as they wear. How much tread left?
a good 6-7mm i think and as for trying the old top mounts me being an idiot kept everything form the change except the rear shocks why i don't know it's not like me to throw anything away >:( but i'm going to take the shock back out and make sure it's seated properly in the hole
....and torque to 110nm....?
Has the car been set up? What are the final figures?
yes all has been set up i torqued to 110 but my torque wrench isn't the best so i gave it a bit of welly to make sure, the back end has camber of:
left -01'58 and right -02'48
front camber is :
left -1'04 and right -01'10
i printed off what you told me on here but they weren't interested and set it up from a book they had?
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Front is ok for left hand drive.
Rear not sure of the setting but thats a huge difference in left to right. Where the rear track rods seized?
And what are the bushes like front and back...
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Rear camber on Estate should be -1.40. Toe -20
According to Haynes anyway.
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would this cause crabbing? and would it be a contributor to tramlining?
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Front is ok for left hand drive.
Rear not sure of the setting but thats a huge difference in left to right. Where the rear track rods seized?
And what are the bushes like front and back...
that i don't know but i will be checking the bushes when i'm next under there
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i'm not really sure which is which, i have two printouts on a ribbon so i'm geussing the top one is what it came in with ,or it was a inbetween readout before final adjustments were made??and the bottom one is what it left with the top printout reads:
front alignment :left+ 00.4mm
right+ 00.4mm
camber left -01'03
right -1'06
backend:
camber left + 2.2mm
right +02.2mm
alignment left-2'03
right-2'42
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would this cause crabbing? and would it be a contributor to tramlining?
Yes, it will react more to road imperfections. Also rear donut bushes will give a steering from the back effect. If the car moves around but there's no feeling of it pulling through the steering it's at the rear. If you can feel the pull it's the front.
Tyres wear needs to be even across the tread too. Or best as.
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would this cause crabbing? and would it be a contributor to tramlining?
Yes, it will react more to road imperfections. Also rear donut bushes will give a steering from the back effect. If the car moves around but there's no feeling of it pulling through the steering it's at the rear. If you can feel the pull it's the front.
Tyres wear needs to be even across the tread too. Or best as.
o.k so i took her for a drive today on acceleration it drives straight and by cruising seems to drive relatively straight but if i back off it sometimes not always wants to pull left i'm geussing the rear subframe is moving a bit? although it's all a bit confusing as sometimes driving the steering wheel is not straight and im always correcting to the right even if the camber of the road is also to the right but i geuss this is a back end problem whilst there is no play up front from what i've seen (went through an m.o.t and he pulled on everything sufficently!) so i'm geussing there is some forward backwards movement somewhere would that indicate donut bushes? must admit i looked at them and they looked alright, would putting harder suspension end numbered there days quicker? the car has 170k on the clock is that relative to donut bush wear?
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They'll be breaked mate tbh.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1283124735
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yes i'm coming to this conclusion :( would this be the cause of a rumbling noise which passes through the cabin when i back off sort of sounds wheel bearingish but i don't think it is it's more universal joint in the drive shaft sort of noise as when under power it isn't there
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Front is ok for left hand drive.
Rear not sure of the setting but thats a huge difference in left to right. Where the rear track rods seized?
The rear track rods wouldn`t have an effect on camber though would they? They only adjust for toe in/out for the passive rear wheel steering.
Large differences in rear camber from left to right would usually be caused by worn rear wishbone bushes, probably the inner void bush.
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i believe the camber all works together with the toe in and out but quite right in saying there shouldn't be a difference in camber if they're both set the same on the toe which they are can you be more specific about the wishbone bushes! as the only ones i know are the tie rod ends sway bar and the donuts!
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does anyone have a diagram of the rear suspension? and i am driving to spain and hoping to take the mig next week how quickly will this problem deteriate or can i just expect much of the same for a while?as on the motorways it's a little tiring to be sure but doable and more comfy than the polo ;D or should i just bite the bullet and head off to opel and have them fix it before i go? also would i be best to replace it all in one hiit donuts and wishbone bushes? i don't know anything about the wishbone bushes but are they d.i.y friendly?, and last but not least i basically have 6 hours free before we head off to spain are the donuts doable in this timeframe??
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i believe the camber all works together with the toe in and out but quite right in saying there shouldn't be a difference in camber if they're both set the same on the toe which they are can you be more specific about the wishbone bushes! as the only ones i know are the tie rod ends sway bar and the donuts!
The inner bushes on the wishbones have a void in them on the horizontal plane to allow the tie rod to pull the wishbone slightly, it`s this action that gives them the passive rear wheel steering
If you look at this picture you can see the inner part is hollow compared to a solid rubber bush(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w75/Gav24v/90334925N_1.jpg)
Without looking at it side on you can`t see the where the hollow bits are but if you ever have to fit some they are extremely rather tight and have to be fitted in the correct orientation, the solid bits top and bottom and the voids left and right.
The outer bush on the wishbone is just a normal solid rubber bush.
@ mrgreen, just realised you`ve got a Desmond so your rear suspension might be slightly different. The 3.0l Carltons had the same set up but the smaller models didn`t have the void bushes or tie rods and I don`t know if the same applies to the Omegas. If your car has rear tie rods then it will have the void bushes too.
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well i'm thinking it's time for opel to step in!! i'll make an appointment! oh well that's the way it goes!
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i don't know anything about the wishbone bushes but are they d.i.y friendly?
They are do able but time consuming.
and last but not least i basically have 6 hours free before we head off to spain are the donuts doable in this timeframe??
Should be enough time if they come out without too much trouble but until you start you never know how hard they will be to remove