Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Pip on 30 December 2010, 19:07:26
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Hello,
Ive had my Omega 3.0 Elite for a couple of months now and have been really pleased with it. But on the way home this evening the engine has started to sound like a Diesel, has a lumpy idle and lost power. It didn't overheat, isn't smoking and has oil in it. Although it has done 135K it is as clean as a whistle and all works so I am reluctant to just give up on it and scrap it.
Any ideas what it might be? Do the followers give trouble? If its cams is it a dear job, or would I be better off just getting another engine for it.
Thanks is advance,
Cheers
Phil.
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Hello Phil & Welcome to the OOF :y
Update your profile in your 'User CP' section' at the top of the page with your location, year of manufacture etc. There may be a knowledgeable member near you who can offer 'hands on' help. Also try & give us a bit more info on how your problem started, what (if any) warning lights show on the dash display etc. :y
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have you checked the timing belt etc???
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Hi Pip and welcome to the forum :)
When was the cambelt and tensioners last replaced?
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Hi,
All updated.
No warning lights showing, even now.
I was just cruising along, at about 30 mph when a track on the CD ended I noticed a slight rattle which quickly increased in volume before I could pull over. It does sound like top end.
I was hoping was just a faulty oil pressure switch allowing the oil to get too low and starve the tappets, but no such luck as the oil level is showing over ½ full.
Really upset about it as I replaced a 24V Granada Ultima with it and despite initial trepidation I actually find it a nicer drive. But just sold the Granada last week so now a bit stuck.
Cheers
Phil.
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As Pete has already asked, any history on when the cambelt was last changed?
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The cam belt, rollers and tensioner where changed 02/04/09, less than 30,000 miles ago at a cost of over £800 (along with a service mind).
I have not had chance to take the cover off yet to check it out.
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Just double checked mileage for cam belt etc change, was 10,000 miles ago. so guessing its not that.
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It still could be. I've got a car on the drive I'm breaking as the tensioner in the V failed after less that 1000 miles!
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Do a paper clip test and post any results.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1189022687
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Belt less likely then, sounded like a mis fire to me from your original description, although it's a bugger to describe noises with a keyboard.
Does the engine rock side to side while running? Can you take a video clip of the engine bay while it's running perhaps?
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Hi,
All updated.
No warning lights showing, even now.
I was just cruising along, at about 30 mph when a track on the CD ended I noticed a slight rattle which quickly increased in volume before I could pull over. It does sound like top end.
I was hoping was just a faulty oil pressure switch allowing the oil to get too low and starve the tappets, but no such luck as the oil level is showing over ½ full.
Really upset about it as I replaced a 24V Granada Ultima with it and despite initial trepidation I actually find it a nicer drive. But just sold the Granada last week so now a bit stuck.
Cheers
Phil.
That may still be too low phil, especially on a car that's an unknown quantity to you! Top it up to the Max mark with VX 10wx40 & see it stays there. ::)
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The light didn't come on at all which is slightly worrying. Ill see if I hook it up to the laptop tomorrow and see if that gives me any clues.
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now seized, so on the hunt for another engine, :-(
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now seized, so on the hunt for another engine, :-(
Really sorry to hear the bad news Pip. I had a 2.6 V6 that had done 150K and still ran as sweet as a nut, so suprised yours has gone. Please keep us informed as to the root cause as I'm sure many on here will be interested. :y :y
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I heard a whisper from a pal who is a mechanic at a vx dealer and is very up to spec with the omega engines, saying that there was a known problem with the oil pumps fitted to later v6 2.6 and 3.2 engines although they should have been sorted out by now if they were suspect. Sorry to hear that your engine has expired, did you have any service history with the car when you bought it? was it serviced to vx intervals, if so could be half the cause, to long between oil changed for my mind.
There are always cars on here being broken so look on the for sale/wanted/ parts sections .
Gary.
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Ive removed the cambelt cover this evening and found the belt to be all tight and in order so that's that ruled out.
Next step to take the heads off I suppose :-(
The engine is a X30XE motor, so possibly not an oil pump issue? No warning about low oil pressure. Anyway will update when Ive got the heads off..
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Didn't quite get as far as taking the head off tonight but did remove the inlet manifold and two of the cams and can already see that at least two of the valves are bent and others are still open even though the cam is off them. So it looks like some of the tappets have seized in the head. I guess even though there was no oil pressure warning it dropped low enough to let them run dry.
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Didn't quite get as far as taking the head off tonight but did remove the inlet manifold and two of the cams and can already see that at least two of the valves are bent and others are still open even though the cam is off them. So it looks like some of the tappets have seized in the head. I guess even though there was no oil pressure warning it dropped low enough to let them run dry.
are you sure the cambelt hasnt slipped though, you may have bent valves due to pistons hitting them. i had the same problem on a 3.0 but managed to get away with it, if this is the case a pair of heads & valves would sort you out. ::)that i have spare. ;)
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I am pretty sure it was properly tensioned up, couldn't turn it belt through 90° and was all nice and tight. You can tell its all pretty new.
I'm planning on rebuilding it now instead of doing an engine swap, gives me an excuse to use the Cortina for a while, but will I necessarily need new heads?
Ive posted a video of it just before it expired on Youtube now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kas1vVd90gE
Hopefully it may help someone else in the future.
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that IS noisey, top end deffo.
Tbh, if the lifters have seized in the head & the valves are bent then i would be swapping the heads & valves, you dont know what damage has been done to them.
But this begs the question, why has this happened?
lack of servicing..oil changes
or the oil pump has gone weak.
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that IS noisey, top end deffo.
Tbh, if the lifters have seized in the head & the valves are bent then i would be swapping the heads & valves, you dont know what damage has been done to them.
But this begs the question, why has this happened?
lack of servicing..oil changes
or the oil pump has gone weak.
Equally, if it was lack of oil pressure it would have damaged the bottom end bearings before lifters siezed, IMHO, and the cause of the problem might well be in the bottom end. (oil pump / pickup strainer?).
Certainly warrants the sump off for a look. I'd be wanting to find the cause before throwing good parts at it.
Then again, I wonder if the timing had slipped. :-/
Kevin
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that IS noisey, top end deffo.
Tbh, if the lifters have seized in the head & the valves are bent then i would be swapping the heads & valves, you dont know what damage has been done to them.
But this begs the question, why has this happened?
lack of servicing..oil changes
or the oil pump has gone weak.
Equally, if it was lack of oil pressure it would have damaged the bottom end bearings before lifters siezed, IMHO, and the cause of the problem might well be in the bottom end. (oil pump / pickup strainer?).
Certainly warrants the sump off for a look. I'd be wanting to find the cause before throwing good parts at it.
Then again, I wonder if the timing had slipped. :-/
Kevin
i think i would look at this first tbh.
as the warning light didnt come on for low oil pressure.
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Hmm, I know your right.. :-)
Do you want to sell your spare heads?
I reckon Ill change the oil pump too while Ive got it apart. Is it possible to do while the engine is still in the car?
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Hmm, I know your right.. :-)
Do you want to sell your spare heads?
I reckon Ill change the oil pump too while Ive got it apart. Is it possible to do while the engine is still in the car?
a right royal pain in the ass job. i think the engine has to come out. but dont quote me on that.
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quick question to kevin....are the 2.5 & 3.0l oil pumps the same do you know?
...just checked, they both come up with
part/no. 9193203 :y
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Hmm, I know your right.. :-)
Do you want to sell your spare heads?
I reckon Ill change the oil pump too while Ive got it apart. Is it possible to do while the engine is still in the car?
a right royal pain in the ass job. i think the engine has to come out. but dont quote me on that.
I think the only problem is that the crank pulley nut has to come off and it is torqued up to 250lbf (IIRC). I have read that the crank pulley is made from sintered metal and will disintegrate if that much force is applied to it. If the engine is out you can apply a lock between the ring gear and one of the bellhousing bolts.
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Hmm, I know your right.. :-)
Do you want to sell your spare heads?
I reckon Ill change the oil pump too while Ive got it apart. Is it possible to do while the engine is still in the car?
a right royal pain in the ass job. i think the engine has to come out. but dont quote me on that.
I think the only problem is that the crank pulley nut has to come off and it is torqued up to 250lbf (IIRC). I have read that the crank pulley is made from sintered metal and will disintegrate if that much force is applied to it. If the engine is out you can apply a lock between the ring gear and one of the bellhousing bolts.
thats right, made one up from a very large spanner i had. & bloody tight to get out.
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Not going to be a quick job eh :-( but its going to have to come off one way or another otherwise I am not going to be happy its been done right.
Ive an air ¾" drive socket gun which seems to move pretty much anything so Ill give that a whizz before going for the full engine out option.
Ill push on and update at a later date.
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Not going to be a quick job eh :-( but its going to have to come off one way or another otherwise I am not going to be happy its been done right.
Ive an air ¾" drive socket gun which seems to move pretty much anything so Ill give that a whizz before going for the full engine out option.
Ill push on and update at a later date.
How are you going to torque it up again afterwards?
Omega owners have reported problems with crud blocking the strainer in the oil pick up pipe. I haven't read of any proven cases of oil pump failure :-/
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quick question to kevin....are the 2.5 & 3.0l oil pumps the same do you know?
...just checked, they both come up with
part/no. 9193203 :y
Can't see why they wouldn't be, but I believe there was a change at some point during production that required a change in the T-vents in the head to give the right oil flow to the cams and lifters.
Kevin
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quick question to kevin....are the 2.5 & 3.0l oil pumps the same do you know?
...just checked, they both come up with
part/no. 9193203 :y
Can't see why they wouldn't be, but I believe there was a change at some point during production that required a change in the T-vents in the head to give the right oil flow to the cams and lifters.
Kevin
thats right, dont know when/year though.
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Hmm, I know your right.. :-)
Do you want to sell your spare heads?
I reckon Ill change the oil pump too while Ive got it apart. Is it possible to do while the engine is still in the car?
I would say: Drop the sump, clean out any debris from the pickup strainer and have a quick look at a couple of the big end shells. This will tell you if there was a wholesale lack of lubrication.
If everything looks OK, I would say it's more than likely that it was a timing issue, so refurb / renew the heads, check / clean / replace the lifters and see how it goes.
Kevin
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I have removed and stripped the engine right down now, the oil was like treacle which starved and seized the top end. The oil pump, mains and bores are all OK, the big ends are just starting to show a little wear so Ill replace them while its apart.
One of the inlet cams hasn’t been able to turn as the tappets seized but the pulley wheel wanted to keep going and cracked the cam where it locates on the pin.
Unfortunately Vauxhall no longer carry cams for the X30XE. Does anyone know where I might be able to get an inlet cam (marked G8), or failing that suggest an alternative set of cams?
Cheers Phil
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I have removed and stripped the engine right down now, the oil was like treacle which starved and seized the top end. The oil pump, mains and bores are all OK, the big ends are just starting to show a little wear so Ill replace them while its apart.
One of the inlet cams hasn’t been able to turn as the tappets seized but the pulley wheel wanted to keep going and cracked the cam where it locates on the pin.
Unfortunately Vauxhall no longer carry cams for the X30XE. Does anyone know where I might be able to get an inlet cam (marked G8), or failing that suggest an alternative set of cams?
Cheers Phil
I have a set of 3.0 cams but unfortunately its not worth splitting them because the 2.5 boys like them as on upgrade ::)
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How much would you want for the full set?
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Ive eventually started on the rebuild, replaced all the bottom end bearings, heads, cams and rings along a really good clean up.
But putting the cam pulleys back on this evening I notice they can go two ways, I am guessing that it doesn't matter which way but if someone can confirm, that would be great.
Also noticed the crank pulley for the cam belt has lost its locating notch on the inside. Can anyone help with a spare one?
Cheers
Phil.
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Hi Phil.
The cams have locating pins so cam 1 is the drivers side exhaust cam, the 2 drivers side inlet 3 passenger side inlet and 4 passenger side exhaust ;)
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Thanks for that, Ill have to double check which one Ive fitted where, but whats was worrying me was the pulley will go on two ways too even though the holes in the pulley seem to be off set.
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Yeah but each slot has a number ;)
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This might be handy when re-fitting the cams:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152565319
Kevin
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Thats brilliant, thanks.
Now I know Ive got the cams in the right places, but that diagram will help me get them positioned right and the pulleys fitted.
Just what I needed, Ideal.
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All sorted now, I hadn't seen the numbers stamped on the front of the pulleys as the washers were in the way, easy when you know how. :)
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good to hear the rebuild is going good. :y
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Unfortunately its come to a bit of a full stop now, Ive spent knocking on £800 on parts alone now, as well mostly finished doing a LPG conversion but can't get a front pulley :-( and not done enough posts yet to be able to list in the wanted section.
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Unfortunately its come to a bit of a full stop now, Ive spent knocking on £800 on parts alone now, as well mostly finished doing a LPG conversion but can't get a front pulley :-( and not done enough posts yet to be able to list in the wanted section.
For want ads stick your post in the test section then PM Jimbob, he'll move it for you.
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Unfortunately its come to a bit of a full stop now, Ive spent knocking on £800 on parts alone now, as well mostly finished doing a LPG conversion but can't get a front pulley :-( and not done enough posts yet to be able to list in the wanted section.
Which pulley do you need Pip?
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I finished rebuilding the engine which ran for 15 minutes before the big end seized.
Not wanting to go down the rebuild road again as it taken me about 6 months to fit it in, I bought another engine but just discovered that one is down on compression on number one 8 bar and number 2 about 10 bar. The rest are 16 bar.
I am at my wits end now over this and deliberating just chucking it in anyway until I can find another replacement at the right money.
Do you think Id just get a loss of power with those readings or would I really notice it running uneven.
The guy I bought the engine from said it was running sweet before he took it out.