Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: robinxr4i on 29 October 2010, 14:19:55

Title: Dual mass to solid flywheel conversion - Help
Post by: robinxr4i on 29 October 2010, 14:19:55
In at the deep end for my third post  ;D

For what I'm using my Omega for I'm already experiencing problems with the standard DMF and clutch setup. When I kick the clutch or violently snatch up a gear the flywheel is over loaded and slips (originally I thought it maybe a knackered clutch, but I've done some research and it seems that the dual mass will slip when you try to overload the transmission, great if your driving Miss Daisy, not good for drifting)

Anyway is there an off-the-shelf solid flywheel conversion avaliable or is there a way to uses the cluch and solid flywheel from a Vectra V6 or Cavalier possibly? Or would a 3.0 omega DMF handle the abuse better? I did look into using a 4 pot flywheel but it appears the flywheel isn't thick enough and the release bearing my have a problem actuating the clutch?


Anyway any help or advice is welcome, Thanks Robin
Title: Re: Dual mass to solid flywheel conversion - Help
Post by: Kevin Wood on 29 October 2010, 14:35:39
I know nothing about the Omega DMF setup but release bearings can always be extended by bonding on a spacer of a suitably hard material.

Kevin
Title: Re: Dual mass to solid flywheel conversion - Help
Post by: JasonH on 29 October 2010, 22:30:34
This is from the depths of my memory but I think the answer is:

You can use a Vectra flywheel but the clutch needs to be changed too. The Omega friction plate is unsprung because of the DMF.

Courtney Motorsport do a lightened flywheel. Not sure if this is a DMF or not.
Title: Re: Dual mass to solid flywheel conversion - Help
Post by: JasonH on 29 October 2010, 22:32:33
Here we are:
http://www.courtenaysport.co.uk/buy-online/shop-by-category/steel-billet-flywheels/lightweight-flywheel-v6-vectra-b/prod_29.html
Title: Re: Dual mass to solid flywheel conversion - Help
Post by: Kevin Wood on 29 October 2010, 23:36:50
Quote
This is from the depths of my memory but I think the answer is:

You can use a Vectra flywheel but the clutch needs to be changed too. The Omega friction plate is unsprung because of the DMF.

Courtney Motorsport do a lightened flywheel. Not sure if this is a DMF or not.

Yep. A question of whether the splines on the input shaft are compatible with the Vectra, then. Otherwise a hybrid of Vectra clutch cover plus a.n. other friction plate.

The Courtney one is just a plain flywheel.

Kevin
Title: Re: Dual mass to solid flywheel conversion - Help
Post by: robinxr4i on 30 October 2010, 07:47:34
Thanks for the info guys, I was thinking of using the Vectra friction plate too as this has the dampening springs mounted in it. Atleast I know it's possible just need to get my hands on a V6 Vectra flywheel (that lightened one look cool but it's a bit expensive when you factor in a clutch on top of that, plus I'd rather keep low down torque at the expensive of throttle response).

Thanks again Robin
Title: Re: Dual mass to solid flywheel conversion - Help
Post by: serek on 30 October 2010, 23:46:58
Quote
In at the deep end for my third post  ;D

For what I'm using my Omega for I'm already experiencing problems with the standard DMF and clutch setup. When I kick the clutch or violently snatch up a gear the flywheel is over loaded and slips (originally I thought it maybe a knackered clutch, but I've done some research and it seems that the dual mass will slip when you try to overload the transmission, great if your driving Miss Daisy, not good for drifting)

Anyway is there an off-the-shelf solid flywheel conversion avaliable or is there a way to uses the cluch and solid flywheel from a Vectra V6 or Cavalier possibly? Or would a 3.0 omega DMF handle the abuse better? I did look into using a 4 pot flywheel but it appears the flywheel isn't thick enough and the release bearing my have a problem actuating the clutch?


Anyway any help or advice is welcome, Thanks Robin
that what you need for conversion
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAUXHALL-VECTRA-GSI-SRI-CDX-2-5-V6-SOLID-FLYWHEEL-CLUTC-/150511835203?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item230b345843
release bearings can stay from omega
Title: Re: Dual mass to solid flywheel conversion - Help
Post by: 2woody on 01 November 2010, 11:01:10
A DMF can't slip.

it has some rotation built into it, maybe 15 degrees. There's a positive mechanical stop after that, it just can't go all the way round.

there's always the "weld it up" option
Title: Re: Dual mass to solid flywheel conversion - Help
Post by: robinxr4i on 01 November 2010, 18:55:10
Quote
Quote
In at the deep end for my third post  ;D

For what I'm using my Omega for I'm already experiencing problems with the standard DMF and clutch setup. When I kick the clutch or violently snatch up a gear the flywheel is over loaded and slips (originally I thought it maybe a knackered clutch, but I've done some research and it seems that the dual mass will slip when you try to overload the transmission, great if your driving Miss Daisy, not good for drifting)

Anyway is there an off-the-shelf solid flywheel conversion avaliable or is there a way to uses the cluch and solid flywheel from a Vectra V6 or Cavalier possibly? Or would a 3.0 omega DMF handle the abuse better? I did look into using a 4 pot flywheel but it appears the flywheel isn't thick enough and the release bearing my have a problem actuating the clutch?


Anyway any help or advice is welcome, Thanks Robin
that what you need for conversion
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAUXHALL-VECTRA-GSI-SRI-CDX-2-5-V6-SOLID-FLYWHEEL-CLUTC-/150511835203?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item230b345843
release bearings can stay from omega


I've got my hands on a Vectra V6 flywheel and clutch, so this should all fit with out modifing my standard Omega release bearing and the standard Omega starter motor will engage the solid flywheel?

Thanks again Robin
Title: Re: Dual mass to solid flywheel conversion - Help
Post by: 2woody on 02 November 2010, 09:03:53
check the clutch height. Vectra flywheel height might be different to Omega.
Title: Re: Dual mass to solid flywheel conversion - Help
Post by: robinxr4i on 04 November 2010, 14:45:29
Right I ordered a new dual mass and clutch though my work to compare to the Vectra Solid flywheel and clutch. It all seems spot on the only thing I'm worried about is the solid flywheel and clutch is actually 4mm taller than the dual mass and clutch.

I don't know wether or not that will be an issue or not! Guess I'll have to find out!
Title: Re: Dual mass to solid flywheel conversion - Help
Post by: 2woody on 04 November 2010, 17:47:17
that's interesting. When you say taller, that's the distance from the rear face of the cylinder block to the furthest-out part of the clutch cover - the fingers that the release bearing meets ?
Title: Re: Dual mass to solid flywheel conversion - Help
Post by: robinxr4i on 04 November 2010, 18:18:22
The dual mass omega flywheel is and identical depth to the Vectra solid flywheel, the ring gear is identical too.

The friction plate is obviously different as the Omega one has no springs, and the Vectra one being a normal type friction plate does. The diameter is different too the vectra is 230mm the Omegas is 240mm. However the actual lining is the same thickness.

What effects the total thickness from the crank mounting face to the end of the fingers, is the fingers on the clutch cover. On the Omega the they sit much flater, but on the Vectra cover the fingers are more dome shaped.

Some pics.......

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a376/robin_xr4i/01a4e355.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a376/robin_xr4i/97539396.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a376/robin_xr4i/90832549.jpg)

Here you can see the difference in design......
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a376/robin_xr4i/6b33abcb.jpg)

Oh and yes the input shaft for the FWD and RWD boxes is the same configuration 14 splines
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a376/robin_xr4i/827114df.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a376/robin_xr4i/668aaade.jpg)

Title: Re: Dual mass to solid flywheel conversion - Help
Post by: robinxr4i on 04 November 2010, 18:22:46
Also the flywheel to crank bolts are different too, the bolts for the dual mass appear to be 5-10mm longer than the solid flywheel ones.

So I've ordered some new ones from Vauxhall :)
Title: Re: Dual mass to solid flywheel conversion - Help
Post by: ninjapirate on 20 June 2011, 18:44:53
thought i would drag this up lol
does anyone know
a) if this got completed?
b) if i could use the same idea using vectra 2.2 bits on my 2.2 omega.  (i know the timming gear is differant between the two but could the rest work?) 
just an idea to get shot of the DMF altogether