Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: miggy on 23 May 2008, 19:43:23

Title: Xenon
Post by: miggy on 23 May 2008, 19:43:23
I am looking at maybe fitting a set of Xenon headlights on the GLS Omega, is it a case of just getting the headlamps or do i need other equipment, there is a set for sale and they come with the looms and connection but it does not mention anything else, surley other items would be needed.
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: TheBoy on 23 May 2008, 21:33:25
Quote
I am looking at maybe fitting a set of Xenon headlights on the GLS Omega, is it a case of just getting the headlamps or do i need other equipment, there is a set for sale and they come with the looms and connection but it does not mention anything else, surley other items would be needed.
To do properly (and legally), you need an automatic levelling system and a headlight washing system.
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: JezInBrum on 26 May 2008, 23:28:19
More practicle to fit an aftermarket kit, less messing overall.
I found this company using a google search.
http://www.hids4u.co.uk/store/home.php There others out there so shop about
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: TheBoy on 27 May 2008, 20:09:23
Quote
More practicle to fit an aftermarket kit, less messing overall.
I found this company using a google search.
http://www.hids4u.co.uk/store/home.php There others out there so shop about
Be aware aftermarket kits are not legal to use on UK roads....
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: mkaminski100 on 29 May 2008, 11:33:34
And you might have a problem on MOT.
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: JezInBrum on 18 July 2008, 03:50:17
Sorry to drag this subject up again. I just had a lightbulb moment. Regarding the legality, I am sure I saw That Edd China bloke fit an after markey set onto a Lexus on that bring a wreck back to life & flog it for a fortune show fronted my Mike Brewer. Or have they put in legislation since that would have been made?
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: JueV6 on 18 July 2008, 05:20:41
I believe xenons are ok but HIDs are still illegal Jezz :y
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 July 2008, 09:10:43
Read the post we have in the FAQ section regarding HID's

To put it in a nut shell, there is no specific legislation which makes it illegal to fit a HID conversion as long as the bulbs are marked with the correct regulatory approvals.

There are specific rules that cover the fiting of HID's in new cars for type approval.

And no, as long as the beam pattern is correct, they will not fail an MOT as there is not specific criteria to check this either.
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: Entwood on 18 July 2008, 09:16:43
Please also remember WHY the headlamp washers are fitted ....  and I don't just mean for legal reasons ... :(

HID lights are DIFFERENT .. and they are badly affected by even small amounts of crap on the lenses, far more than normal halogen lights are.

The deterioration in "cast" light is subtle and can easily not be noticed until it is really poor.

I'd hate to think someone had a serious accident simply 'cos they fitted HID's to "look good" and were driving with restricted vision due to simply dirty lenses.

Just my opinion .. thats all   ;) ;)
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 July 2008, 10:28:04
Quote
Please also remember WHY the headlamp washers are fitted ....  and I don't just mean for legal reasons ... :(

HID lights are DIFFERENT .. and they are badly affected by even small amounts of crap on the lenses, far more than normal halogen lights are.

The deterioration in "cast" light is subtle and can easily not be noticed until it is really poor.

I'd hate to think someone had a serious accident simply 'cos they fitted HID's to "look good" and were driving with restricted vision due to simply dirty lenses.

Just my opinion .. thats all   ;) ;)

I disagree....HID light is exactly that....light i.e. photons its just generated using a discharge method rather than a incandescent filament.

Its not affected differently at all because photons are photons!

The only thing you might be able to state is that because there is 3 times the light output that any dirt will drop the light by a set percentage so the light drop off will be more noticeable but, you have to loose a lot to get down to the levels of a standard halogen lamp!

The importnat thing is maintaining the correct adjustment for the headlight but, this is trus of those with auto leveling anyway :y
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: Entwood on 18 July 2008, 11:25:35
Quote
Quote
Please also remember WHY the headlamp washers are fitted ....  and I don't just mean for legal reasons ... :(

HID lights are DIFFERENT .. and they are badly affected by even small amounts of crap on the lenses, far more than normal halogen lights are.

The deterioration in "cast" light is subtle and can easily not be noticed until it is really poor.

I'd hate to think someone had a serious accident simply 'cos they fitted HID's to "look good" and were driving with restricted vision due to simply dirty lenses.

Just my opinion .. thats all   ;) ;)

I disagree....HID light is exactly that....light i.e. photons its just generated using a discharge method rather than a incandescent filament.

Its not affected differently at all because photons are photons!

The only thing you might be able to state is that because there is 3 times the light output that any dirt will drop the light by a set percentage so the light drop off will be more noticeable but, you have to loose a lot to get down to the levels of a standard halogen lamp!

The importnat thing is maintaining the correct adjustment for the headlight but, this is trus of those with auto leveling anyway :y

AFAIK HID light is from a much narrower spectrum (wavelength), and so is far more prone to "scatter" than halogen light which is from a broader spectrum. As HID lights are more "directed" by the HID lens rather than the headlamp "glass", dirt on the "glass" causes far greater "scatter" and loss of illumination on the road.

Now I'm no expert on this in any way, I'm only repeating what I was told some years back - it's probably all rubbish .. but does make some sense to me   :-/ :-/ :-/ and is, supposedly, the reason the "Construction and Use" regs insist on washers for HID lights.  :question :question
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 July 2008, 11:36:41
HID light is actually a wider spectrum of light than incandescent.

And both the Halogen and HID use ball lense type focus setups.

So yes, its all rubbish  :y

Dirt does not tend to cause scatter nearly as much as water does (no surprise) it generally just attenuates the output.
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: tmx on 18 July 2008, 18:47:27
our local plod have cracked down on these HID kits they are fining all the boy racers £80 and making them have one of them defect notices!

and so they should! you can spot hid kits miles away as they are to bright and dont level properly so blind everyone! causing accidents

also HID lights use some serious current and judging by the guage of cable on my mv6s they could potentially kill
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 July 2008, 18:52:53
Quote
our local plod have cracked down on these HID kits they are fining all the boy racers £80 and making them have one of them defect notices!

and so they should! you can spot hid kits miles away as they are to bright and dont level properly so blind everyone! causing accidents

also HID lights use some serious current and judging by the guage of cable on my mv6s they could potentially kill

If they are bulbs with the correct approvals then what they are doing wont stand up in court.........

They also use less power (about 35W) but are high voltage so the cable you can see is all insulation with small conductors :y
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: tmx on 18 July 2008, 19:01:07
they have this operation called BLACKOUT or summat was in the paper they only just got ANPR  [smiley=rolleyes.gif]

but yep theyre doing it like there doing boy racers for excessive noise they had a write up on it in the local rag about non standard hids cause accidents and dazzle motorists
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 July 2008, 19:23:28
Quote
they have this operation called BLACKOUT or summat was in the paper they only just got ANPR  [smiley=rolleyes.gif]

but yep theyre doing it like there doing boy racers for excessive noise they had a write up on it in the local rag about non standard hids cause accidents and dazzle motorists


As said, if they have quality bulbs with the correct approvals then they are perfectly legal  :y

As I have said, any poorly adjusted HID, even if factory fitted, will dazzle a motorist the same as a halogen one will.
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: TheBoy on 19 July 2008, 14:37:50
Quote
Quote
Please also remember WHY the headlamp washers are fitted ....  and I don't just mean for legal reasons ... :(

HID lights are DIFFERENT .. and they are badly affected by even small amounts of crap on the lenses, far more than normal halogen lights are.

The deterioration in "cast" light is subtle and can easily not be noticed until it is really poor.

I'd hate to think someone had a serious accident simply 'cos they fitted HID's to "look good" and were driving with restricted vision due to simply dirty lenses.

Just my opinion .. thats all   ;) ;)

I disagree....HID light is exactly that....light i.e. photons its just generated using a discharge method rather than a incandescent filament.

Its not affected differently at all because photons are photons!

The only thing you might be able to state is that because there is 3 times the light output that any dirt will drop the light by a set percentage so the light drop off will be more noticeable but, you have to loose a lot to get down to the levels of a standard halogen lamp!

The importnat thing is maintaining the correct adjustment for the headlight but, this is trus of those with auto leveling anyway :y
Sorry Mark, I disagree.  HIDs are adversely affected in my experience.  Having owned both halogen and HID Omegas, my experience confirms this.  Same applies to others where I've driven both types - beemers, LRs, mercs, veccys...

The washing system is there for a reason ;)

Also, your legalities thread implies that any retrofit has to be to same standard as if fitted new....


However, if fitted well, and not set so high/right to be selfishly idiotish, who will ever know?  But defo worth fitting washers as well :y
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: TheBoy on 19 July 2008, 14:39:30
Quote
Quote
they have this operation called BLACKOUT or summat was in the paper they only just got ANPR  [smiley=rolleyes.gif]

but yep theyre doing it like there doing boy racers for excessive noise they had a write up on it in the local rag about non standard hids cause accidents and dazzle motorists


As said, if they have quality bulbs with the correct approvals then they are perfectly legal  :y

As I have said, any poorly adjusted HID, even if factory fitted, will dazzle a motorist the same as a halogen one will.
absolutely, only moreso.  It is a very intense light.  There is a idiot who comes the other way to me between brackly and buckingham with one hid set high and straight...
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: TheBoy on 19 July 2008, 14:41:14
Quote
Quote
they have this operation called BLACKOUT or summat was in the paper they only just got ANPR  [smiley=rolleyes.gif]

but yep theyre doing it like there doing boy racers for excessive noise they had a write up on it in the local rag about non standard hids cause accidents and dazzle motorists


As said, if they have quality bulbs with the correct approvals then they are perfectly legal  :y

As I have said, any poorly adjusted HID, even if factory fitted, will dazzle a motorist the same as a halogen one will.
Reading your other thread, and other links, the lenses have to be approved for HID use.  Whilst I'm sure the lenses are the same, will it still carry that approval?
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: tmx on 19 July 2008, 17:04:20
when i installed hids on  my v6 vectra i done it properly by getting a satin red CDX bumperwith h/l washers and CDX headlights with all the xenon units etc

this was road legal as they were in the eyes of the law standard and the car could of left the factory like that!!!!
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: MutantCav on 19 July 2008, 18:34:45
I have a part stripped Omega Elite Estate outside with Xenons...doesnt have washer jets not checked for the self levellers yet...I'm wondering if they were retro fitted without the extra gubbins...
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: TheBoy on 19 July 2008, 20:20:05
Quote
when i installed hids on  my v6 vectra i done it properly by getting a satin red CDX bumperwith h/l washers and CDX headlights with all the xenon units etc

this was road legal as they were in the eyes of the law standard and the car could of left the factory like that!!!!
Needs some kind of auto levelling - not sure if veccys have these...
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: VXL V6 on 19 July 2008, 20:34:37
Yep, very last Vectra B CDX and GSi's had factory HID's
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: tmx on 19 July 2008, 20:40:55
yes it does have the auto leveling its the same as my mv6 front and rear but the scrappy never had a rear sensor so i fitted it without a rear sensor works ok!
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: TheBoy on 19 July 2008, 21:03:37
Quote
Yep, very last Vectra B CDX and GSi's had factory HID's
Yeah, I know they came with HIDs, but was thinking os suspension levelling if retrofitting hids
Title: Re: Xenon
Post by: tunnie on 19 July 2008, 22:41:40
Quote
Quote
Quote
Please also remember WHY the headlamp washers are fitted ....  and I don't just mean for legal reasons ... :(

HID lights are DIFFERENT .. and they are badly affected by even small amounts of crap on the lenses, far more than normal halogen lights are.

The deterioration in "cast" light is subtle and can easily not be noticed until it is really poor.

I'd hate to think someone had a serious accident simply 'cos they fitted HID's to "look good" and were driving with restricted vision due to simply dirty lenses.

Just my opinion .. thats all   ;) ;)

I disagree....HID light is exactly that....light i.e. photons its just generated using a discharge method rather than a incandescent filament.

Its not affected differently at all because photons are photons!

The only thing you might be able to state is that because there is 3 times the light output that any dirt will drop the light by a set percentage so the light drop off will be more noticeable but, you have to loose a lot to get down to the levels of a standard halogen lamp!

The importnat thing is maintaining the correct adjustment for the headlight but, this is trus of those with auto leveling anyway :y
Sorry Mark, I disagree.  HIDs are adversely affected in my experience.  Having owned both halogen and HID Omegas, my experience confirms this.  Same applies to others where I've driven both types - beemers, LRs, mercs, veccys...

The washing system is there for a reason ;)

Also, your legalities thread implies that any retrofit has to be to same standard as if fitted new....


However, if fitted well, and not set so high/right to be selfishly idiotish, who will ever know?  But defo worth fitting washers as well :y

I have had several cars with HID's

I noticed a huge improvment in light, when driving at night, when the lights were washed....

Soon as the lights where washed there was a huge improvement in light output, HID's seam to affected much more by dirt than Halogens.