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Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: PaulW on 02 June 2008, 18:20:52

Title: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: PaulW on 02 June 2008, 18:20:52
Just a quick question...

Both pre-facelift (mini) and facelift, they have a seperate ecu to control the central locking don't they??

Wondering what differences lie between the two, ie, are they inter-changeable so to get the 3-button fobs with boot release??  And also, any major differences with the loom for them??

Fitted a facelift boot to my elite earlier, everything works, even the boot release, but it pops the boot when the central locking is unlocked, so just wondering if its possible to retro-fit the new ecu to get seperate popping control, or if i'm best just hashing into the wiring and sorting something else out??

Cheers
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: TheBoy on 02 June 2008, 18:59:10
Can't answer your question, as I don't know. Sorry.  But be aware that the central locking is part of the alarm ECU if you have factory fitted alarm, and not a seperate ECU.  If no factory fitted alarm, it has its own ECU.

Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: PaulW on 02 June 2008, 22:58:44
The whole thing is factory, alarm etc...  Have the imob. codes to boot aswell on the little card.

I'll try hunt down some sort of wiring schematics if I can find anything...
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's.
Post by: TheBoy on 02 June 2008, 23:01:03
Quote
The whole thing is factory, alarm etc...  Have the imob. codes to boot aswell on the little card.

I'll try hunt down some sort of wiring schematics if I can find anything...
Wiring diags for 2002/2003 Omegas are on the later versions of TIS if you have access to that.
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: PaulW on 02 June 2008, 23:08:43
Have an old copy somewhere on CD, aswell as the online section via the TC site (if i subscribe to it that is...)
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: TheBoy on 02 June 2008, 23:13:51
Quote
Have an old copy somewhere on CD, aswell as the online section via the TC site (if i subscribe to it that is...)
Wiring diags won't be on earlier CD ones, only the DVD ones from last couple of years
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: PaulW on 02 June 2008, 23:16:26
Not got the dvd one then :(
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: TheBoy on 02 June 2008, 23:24:08
Quote
Not got the dvd one then :(
Does this help?

http://images.omegaowners.com/documents/atws/alarm2002.pdf

(apologies its distorted - I'm tired, and need to go to bed)
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: PaulW on 05 June 2008, 17:29:57
Helps for the facelift one thanks :) Just need to find one for the pre-facelift now...
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: TheBoy on 05 June 2008, 19:49:21
Quote
Helps for the facelift one thanks :) Just need to find one for the pre-facelift now...
I've no electronic one, but its in Book of Lies... ;)
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: PaulW on 06 June 2008, 08:10:58
Will steal my brothers :D

But, if I was to experiment, and get a new ECU from a latter car...  How would coding keys be done??

The multiplug where they connect to the loom looks exactly the same, so would I just need the new Imob code for the keys, and retain the original chip in the key??

I'm guessing (hoping) Tech2 will still talk to it...

Looking at getting this just to experiment with you see...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAUXHALL-OPEL-OMEGA-CENTRAL-LOCKING-ECU-REMOTE_W0QQitemZ380032992164QQihZ025QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: TheBoy on 07 June 2008, 09:52:27
Quote
Will steal my brothers :D

But, if I was to experiment, and get a new ECU from a latter car...  How would coding keys be done??

The multiplug where they connect to the loom looks exactly the same, so would I just need the new Imob code for the keys, and retain the original chip in the key??

I'm guessing (hoping) Tech2 will still talk to it...

Looking at getting this just to experiment with you see...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAUXHALL-OPEL-OMEGA-CENTRAL-LOCKING-ECU-REMOTE_W0QQitemZ380032992164QQihZ025QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
if you use the fobs that came from new car, that should work i would have though  :-/

Immobiliser is seperate, and should be able to use old one.
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: PaulW on 10 June 2008, 17:30:20
Cool I'll see what I can find soon enough at the scrappers...  Or see if anyone is breaking a facelift, and get the bits I need!
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: PaulW on 09 July 2008, 13:04:58
Just waiting on the ECU, fob and carpass card to arrive, so wondering if anyone might be able to shed any more light at all??

Cheers  :y
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 July 2008, 14:04:52
Yup

Appears to be the same connector and much the same wiring (made some notes at home jsut after the lakes meet).

The ultrasonic interface is different and the wiring to the boot lock solenoid is pretty much the same.

One extra wire for the switch and a few feed changes to.
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: PaulW on 11 July 2008, 20:37:42
Quote
Yup

Appears to be the same connector and much the same wiring (made some notes at home jsut after the lakes meet).

The ultrasonic interface is different and the wiring to the boot lock solenoid is pretty much the same.

One extra wire for the switch and a few feed changes to.

So hopefully not too much of a problem then!

Any gen on the differences for the ultrasonics??  Reckon I'm best also retro-fitting the sonics from the facelift into the car aswell, or could they just be modified to go into it?
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: markey mark on 11 July 2008, 22:23:54
i have the sonics and the looms down to the floor paul !! :y
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: PaulW on 12 July 2008, 15:50:46
Quote
i have the sonics and the looms down to the floor paul !! :y

I may get them off you aswell then if I can't get the current ones adapted when the stuff arrives  :y
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: markey mark on 12 July 2008, 17:30:24
Quote
Quote
i have the sonics and the looms down to the floor paul !! :y

I may get them off you aswell then if I can't get the current ones adapted when the stuff arrives  :y

picked up the car pass from vx today paul had to buy a new one  >:( me dad managed to bloody lose it ! so all boxed up and will be posted monday after work at 2 pm ! :y
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's.
Post by: PaulW on 15 July 2008, 12:34:46
Got the stuff today Mark, cheers  :y

Right... onto the item in question...

Plumbed it all into the car, the connectors are the same (but as for the pinouts and such, not a clue as I don't have a snippet of loom to check connections...)

The fob wouldn't activate the locks or anything, so that will need Tech 2-ing...

The car will lock and unlock from the key in the lock, BUT the boot still opens when you unlock the car, so there is 1 wiring alteration to make lol

Open the car door after unlocking, the alarm goes off (yay)...
**key in ignition, alarm still goes off
**key in, car started and engine running, alarm still goes off
had to unplug the control box to stop it going off  ;D

So, I'd guess the imob code also needs setting to the old chip in question??  Tech2 again??

As for wiring, I could do with a pinout listing for both pre-facelift (98) and Facelift on the ecu too if at all possible??  The amplifier section is the same (same ID number in the socket), so its just the other bit which needs changing about I reckon...

I think Newent may end up being the 'permanent tech2 connection to my car' camping trip  ;D
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's.
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 July 2008, 13:55:54
Quote
Got the stuff today Mark, cheers  :y

Right... onto the item in question...

Plumbed it all into the car, the connectors are the same (but as for the pinouts and such, not a clue as I don't have a snippet of loom to check connections...)

The fob wouldn't activate the locks or anything, so that will need Tech 2-ing...

The car will lock and unlock from the key in the lock, BUT the boot still opens when you unlock the car, so there is 1 wiring alteration to make lol

Open the car door after unlocking, the alarm goes off (yay)...
**key in ignition, alarm still goes off
**key in, car started and engine running, alarm still goes off
had to unplug the control box to stop it going off  ;D

So, I'd guess the imob code also needs setting to the old chip in question??  Tech2 again??

As for wiring, I could do with a pinout listing for both pre-facelift (98) and Facelift on the ecu too if at all possible??  The amplifier section is the same (same ID number in the socket), so its just the other bit which needs changing about I reckon...

I think Newent may end up being the 'permanent tech2 connection to my car' camping trip  ;D

No tech 2 work required and the immobiliser is seperate to teh ECU.

There are as already mentioned, some supply changes to make which I noted on some printouts at home, I will post them this evening if I get time  :y
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: PaulW on 15 July 2008, 13:58:46
Cheers Mark

If its any help, its a Delphi control module (Blue LT), 24 443 645 GM

 :y
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 July 2008, 13:59:37
Quote
Cheers Mark

If its any help, its a Delphi control module (Blue LT), 24 443 645 GM

 :y


All the facelift alarm ones are  :y
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: PaulW on 15 July 2008, 14:08:28
Quote
All the facelift alarm ones are  :y

Same with pre-facelift too??
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 July 2008, 14:40:54
Quote
Quote
All the facelift alarm ones are  :y

Same with pre-facelift too??


No but, the wiring harness is the same!
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: PaulW on 15 July 2008, 14:43:24
Cool beans :)

Reason I asked about the facelift one was due to the picture in Hillpers boot mod, the blue streak says ES whereas the one I have says LT!
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 July 2008, 22:02:05
Right, the boot release switch connects to pin 3 of the 26 way connector

The boot release solenoid connects to pin 10 of the 12 way connector, this may require one extra wire running to the boot lid where you would cut the existing black/red wire which feeds the boot solenoid and repalce it with the new connection (I suspect the boot opens everytime you unlock the car!)

The connection to pin 1 of the 12 way connector needs to be moved to pin 5 of the 26 way connector.

That just then leaves the ultrasonics....and to get that sorted needs the wires scoping up (I will see if I get chance to do this in the enxt few days)
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: PaulW on 16 July 2008, 00:02:46
Quote
Right, the boot release switch connects to pin 3 of the 26 way connector

The boot release solenoid connects to pin 10 of the 12 way connector, this may require one extra wire running to the boot lid where you would cut the existing black/red wire which feeds the boot solenoid and repalce it with the new connection (I suspect the boot opens everytime you unlock the car!)

The connection to pin 1 of the 12 way connector needs to be moved to pin 5 of the 26 way connector.

That just then leaves the ultrasonics....and to get that sorted needs the wires scoping up (I will see if I get chance to do this in the enxt few days)

Yes the boot does open everytime I unlock the car, its a tad, annoying you could say!

So going from those pinouts, it should work (except for solenoids as you mentioned) so the switch to turn off the internal sensors remains untouched too??

Also, would this explain now as to why the alarm never turned off when the key was in the ignition?  I did notice 1 of the relays sounds like its 'rattling' as if you shake the control module, you can hear it... I hope this isn't whats probably causing the alarm to stay on...

Still, I'll get to the scrappers tomorrow, get a piece of loom, and start splicing to see if I can get it to work... but I still think they fob will need tech2'ing up to the ecu still (unless thats related to the rattly relay too) even though key in door operates the central locking fine......
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's...
Post by: PaulW on 22 July 2008, 15:06:48
Right...  I've not got both sets of loom to compare!  This is what I have...

Facelift Loom

Amp (12pin)

1 -
2 - Brown / Red Stripe
3 - Red (thin)
4 -
5 -
6 - Brown / White Stripe
7 - Black / Yellow Stripe
8 - Black / Red Stripe
9 - Red (thick)
10 - Black / Red Stripe
11 - Brown
12 -

Main Connector (28pin)
1 - Brown / Red Stripe
2 - Brown / White Stripe
3 - Brown / Blue Stripe
4 - Black
5 - Brown / Red Stripe
6 -
7 - Green / Brown Stripe      }      Interior Alarm Sensor??  Splits to 1 Brown Wire too.
8 - Blue / Brown Stripe            }
9 -
10 - Black / Blue Stripe (thick)
11 - Grey / Black Stripe
12 - Red / Blue Stripe
13 -
14 - Black / White Stripe
15 - Blue
16 - Grey
17 - Brown / Yellow Stripe (splits to 2 of same)
18 - Red
19 - Brown / Red Stripe
20 - Brown / Green Stripe
21 - Brown / White Stripe
22 - Brown / White Stripe
23 - Brown / Red Stripe
24 - Brown / Black Stripe
25 - Brown / Purple Stripe
26 - Black
27 -
28 -

Pre-Facelift Loom

Amp (12pin)

1 - Brown / Red Stripe
2 - Brown / Red Stripe
3 - Red (thin)
4 - Brown / White Stripe
5 -
6 - Brown / White Stripe
7 - Black / Yellow Stripe
8 - Black / Red Stripe
9 - Red (thick)
10 -
11 - Brown
12 -

Main Connector (28pin)
1 - Brown / Red Stripe
2 - Brown / White Stripe
3 -
4 -
5 -
6 - Black / Purple Stripe
7 - Brown
8 - Red / White Stripe
9 - White
10 - Black / Blue Stripe (thick)
11 - Grey / Black Stripe
12 - Red / Blue Stripe
13 - Blue
14 - Black / White Stripe
15 - Grey / White Stripe
16 - Grey
17 - Brown / White Stripe
18 - Red
19 - Brown / Red Stripe
20 - Brown / Green Stripe
21 - Brown / White Stripe
22 - Brown / White Stripe
23 - Brown / Red Stripe
24 - Brown / Black Stripe
25 - Brown / Purple Stripe
26 - Black
27 -
28 -

** Pins 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9 are linked to 2 sets of interior sensors???, with 1 brown whire split seperately.

So, there are differences from both sides...

Need to connect a switch feed to pin 3 of the 28-pin connector (Brown / Blue Stripe) to a switch on the dash, and ground it?

On the 12pin Amp connector, Run a line from pin 10 (Black / Red Stripe) to the boot, and splice into Black / Red Stripe wire there (disconnecting from previous loom to do)

Move the wire from Pin 1 on 12pin pre-facelift (Brown / Red Stripe) to pin 5 on the 28-pin facelift (Brown / Red Stripe)

As for interior sensors... Can I not just disconnect 1 side, and leave 1 side active?  Or will there be a way of linking both up?

This just leaves the following with no connection...

12-pin
4 - Brown / White Stripe

28-pin
4 - Black
13 - Blue

Amongst other color differences...
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's.
Post by: PaulW on 30 July 2008, 18:11:33
Right, bit more work on this...

Mark, you were saying about 'Scoping' the sensors... I've been looking at the wiring a bit more...

Now, I've looked at the sensors, and come to this conclusion (as each sonic has 2 sensors in it, so 4 wires...)


RearFront
Passenger1. Red/Blue
2. Brown		3. Red/White
4. Purple/Black
Driver1. Purple/Black
2. White		3. Blue
4. Brown

(numbers correspond to pin on sensor connection)

However, the grounding (brows split off) which is running an unshielded core through each appears not to be connected to the sensor, so don't know where this goes...

If the facelift is plugged in (going from the wiring) none of these sensors will be connected.  As the feed goes directly to Front sensor for Passenger and Drivers side (Red/White - Brown (pins 7 and 8 on the multiplug)

Facelift, pin 12 is *not* running to the interior sensor (going from the wiring I have), yet pre-facelift it is.  Wire color is Red/Blue.  Where does this wire connect on the facelift??

Pin 6 and 7 are ground by looks of it (6=Purple/Black, 7-Brown).  These are split into both sensors (so connected to matching color points).

Now, going from what I can see here, I can atleast wire 1 sensor up (I think) if I adapt the following...

Run facelift pins 7 and 8 (green/brown, blue/red), to pins 7 and 13 (blue, brown) which will supply drivers front sensor?  But I may be wrong...

Or is there a way of cross-linking all the sensors to run just off pins 7 and 8 off the facelift box?

Or should I just get the facelift sensor, and loom down to the door pod and just plumb that one into the loop and do away with the door sensors?

This still leaves the mystery of the following coming out of the facelift loom which don't have a place on the prefacelift wiring...

Pin 4 (Black) - Fuse 15, Ignition Voltage, 20A
Pin 12 (Red/Blue) - Interior Lamp

And the following color changes in wiring:


                                          
PinFacelift ColorPre-Facelift ColorFacelift Desc
15Gray/WhiteBlueTKS - Door Contact Switch
17Brown/YellowBrown/WhiteHRL - Trunk Lamp

I guess this is where the pre-facelift wiring diagram comes in handy  ;D

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's.
Post by: PaulW on 30 July 2008, 21:34:15
Gone through both wiring diagrams... Some bits are different (I think I am best getting the wiring and ultrasonic from the facelift and fitting it to mine instead of bumming about with the sonics on this one and adapting...)

So...

Quote
01 - DIFFERENT (S41 Same on Both, but GB X1 Power Siren pin3 connected to Pin 5 on Facelift)
02 - Same
03 - DIFFERENT (No Connect on Pre-Facelift) - Connect to Boot Release Switch
04 - DIFFERENT (No Connect on Pre-Facelift) - 20A Fuse 15 on Facelift (Ignition Voltage)
05 - DIFFERENT (No Connect on Pre-Facelift, GB X1 PowerSounder Pin3 on Facelift) - Connect Pin 1 from 12-way
06 - DIFFERENT (No Connect on Facelift) - Part of Ultrasonics on Pre-Facelift
07 - DIFFERENT (Ultrasonics on Pre-Facelift) - IRL (Interior Lamp) on Facelift
08 - DIFFERENT (Ultrasonics on Pre-Facelift) - IRL (Interior Lamp) on Facelift
09 - DIFFERENT (Ultrasonics on Pre-Facelift) - No Connection on Facelift
10 - Same
11 - DIFFERENT (Ultrasonics Ground Same, but Facelift has Memory Seats and Mirrors (MEM))
12 - DIFFERENT (Ultrasonics on Pre-Facelift) - IRL (Interior Lamp) on Facelift
13 - DIFFERENT (Ultrasonics on Pre-Facelift) - No Connection on Facelift
14 - Same
15 - Same
16 - Same? (CRS on Facelift, TKS on Pre-Facelift - CRS/TKS Linked Boxes on Facelift)
17 - Same
18 - Same
19 - Same
20 - Same
21 - Same? (diag not listed on pre-facelift, SD instead of XD on Facelift, Still uses X1)
22 - Same
23 - Same
24 - Same? (SD, SH on Facelift, SD, FH on Pre-Facelift)
25 - Same
26 - Same
27 - Same
28 - Same - No Connection

Few differences noted.

Power sounder wiring, from pre-facelift says goes from Pin 1, yet facelift is Pin 5.  I assume then that Pin 1 on the 12-way is the same as Pin 1 on the 28-way (as thats the crossing that was mentioned)

Pin 4 has no connection on the Pre-Facelift, so as on the facelift its Ignition Voltage (20A Fuse 15), I need to feed a live from Fuse 15 in the dash (Ignition Switched Live)??  That may explain why the alarm didn't shut off when I turned the ignition on...

I think that may be covered now...  at a guess...  There were differences in relay orders and switchings, but going over both thats as close as I can make it out to be!

If I'm wrong, say now!  I'm going to hunt down the interior light and ultrasonics from a facelift elite now to get this working (as need micropghone for CCRT).

As for the ultrasonic connection, the brown wire which splits off from the feed, I'll just splice into the current loom feed (where it splits to brown there) as I reckon thats right...
Title: Re: Facelift & Pre-facelift central locking ecu's.
Post by: PaulW on 03 August 2008, 22:10:04
Ok figured out the black wire (Pin 4 on the 28-pin connector)

On the Facelift, it goes to S92
On the Pre-Facelift there is no connection, however on the 12-pin connector (at pin 4) the Brown/White wire is S92, so that needs shifting over now (will do it tomorrow and then test the loom.)  This now means there are 2 cross-over connections going from the 12-pin to the 28-pin plug.

I've made the adaptor loom now (except for soldering in the above connection) so I reckon its good to go...

MDTM/TB - can one of you just make sure I'm right please before I give this a test tomorrow??  I'm still not 100% clued up on the facelift diagram and how its ordered (as in whats the 12-pin and 28-pin references) or is the facelift diagram linked further in just for the 28-pin, in which case happy days!

The ultrasonics I'm leaving disconnected for now, as I will be getting the loom and feed from the facelift so there is no scoping needed now.

This is what I've 'bodged' so I don't need to mess with the car loom itself and can easily revert to standard if need be...

(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/PaulW21781/bodgedadaptor.jpg)

I used the socket connector off an old control module from another omega from the scrappers, and soldered the wires from the facelift loom cuts to the relevant pins on the socket.  Order of things...

Pre-facelift loom -> Socket -> Through adaption loom -> Facelift Control Module

The wire in the top-left is from Pin 10 of the 12-way (boot release solenoid)

The 4 wires top-right are 3 for the ultrasonics & light, 1 for boot release switch

The single wire loose bottom-left is from pin 4 of the 28-pin connector, and will be soldered to pin 4 of the 12-way connector tomorrow.