Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: spaceraceuk on 09 January 2008, 09:40:33
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Hi,
I bought a 2.5 CDX estate recently. Having finally got the radio code (no code supplied!) I have setup the radio etc. and all works fine.
I'm slightly confused though. When starting the car the radio section of the display briefly shows 'BOSE System' (or maybe 'BOSE Sound') can't remember now but definitely the word BOSE. Add to this that I'm pretty sure the sound gets louder on the motorway which I believe is a characteristic of the BOSE system. The thing is I have also read there is an amp with the BOSE system, but I can't find it! I've seen a picture on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140197060422&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123) of an estate with the BOSE sound system and the amp looks to be in the passenger side cubby hole in the boot - but mine is definitely empty. Is it hidden somewhere else? :-?
Thanks
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Speed dependant volume is standard on the CCR 2006. It doesn't have to be a Bose system to do this.
Can't help with the specifics of the Bose system. Is there any sign of bass speakers anywhere in the back, or have you just got the 4 door speakers?
Kevin
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Speed dependant volume is standard on the CCR 2006. It doesn't have to be a Bose system to do this.
ahh ok that's one thing cleared up then. I also now see the bit in the back of the estate on ebay is the sub, not the amp, so maybe I just don't have the sub?
Can't help with the specifics of the Bose system. Is there any sign of bass speakers anywhere in the back, or have you just got the 4 door speakers?
Kevin
haven't seen, but then haven't really looked. will have a poke round the back when I get in it later.
Thanks
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The BOSE system was an optional upgrade and included an amplifier and various upgraded speakers, often including a sub mounted somewhere in the vehicle.
Because the BOSE amplifier ran at a different line input level than any other standard amplified system, the head unit had to be reprogrammed to take this into account and give the correct line outputs. To signify that the head unit was BOSE reprogrammed, it gave the message when it was powered up.
However, to add to the confusion, the standard speaker outputs on the head unit remained unnafected, so a BOSE unit with a full set of front and rear outputs could run in a standard non amplified car. Many Non-Vauxhall BOSE units do not have this capability, as the standard speaker outputs are often switched off, meaning that once a unit became a BOSE unit, it was of little use to anyone else.
As far as the speed controlled volme, this has been around on many vehicles for years and often signified by the words SCV or GALA on the ISO power plug - a good one to locate as its the wire that can be used for speed pulse when connecting a decent sat nav !!
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My understanding is that on the CCR2006 when configured for Bose the speaker outputs are reduced in level and it is these that drive the Bose amp, there being no line level outputs from the CCR2006. Bose amp then drives all speakers including the door speaker.
I suppose a Bose configured head unit would still drive speakers but at reduced level.
Have never played with one myself, but this is what has been said here previously.
Kevin
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Yeah, I may well have the Amp, I'm just not sure where it supposed to be. The bit I thought I was missing looks like it's the sub which I'm not as concerned about as everything will still work without it.
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The sub will be located to the left side of the boot, under the lid where there should be the first aid kit. The amp is on right hand side, behind the other lid where you can acces the fuel flap. Also, one item is added: there are some sort of trays on each side of boot on top of the wheel housings... Will take some pictures if I remember...
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The sub will be located to the left side of the boot, under the lid where there should be the first aid kit. The amp is on right hand side, behind the other lid where you can acces the fuel flap. Also, one item is added: there are some sort of trays on each side of boot on top of the wheel housings... Will take some pictures if I remember...
thanks, that would be great. I know the left hand side (sub) was empty, I'll go check the right for an amp...
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My understanding is that on the CCR2006 when configured for Bose the speaker outputs are reduced in level and it is these that drive the Bose amp, there being no line level outputs from the CCR2006. Bose amp then drives all speakers including the door speaker.
Correct - I was giving a general answer to cover the useage of Bose units in Non Vauxhall`s as well, to assist others who locate this thread with other vehicles and a similar problem. (Audi / Porsche etc)
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OK....here are a few more facts to help....
The CDx does not have Bose and from memory it was not an option.
Bose was standard on the Elites from mid 97ish (mini facelift) onwards. The system utilises, in the case of the facelift cars, a standard head unit, an additional amp, a sub (either in the side of the boot on estates or in the form of LF drivers on the back shelf in the saloon) and different door speakers.
The key difference on the door speakers is that they are 2ohms in order to allow the amp to drive slightly higher wattages using a standard nominal 12V supply fom the car without the use of a DC-DC to boost the supply voltage (which is what is done in big car amps).
The headunit is programmed (via Tech2) to configure the ouputs to be standard speaker level (for non bose) or a low level balanced feed (to drive the Bose amp). In either configuration the outputs use the standard speaker connections on the unit.
The display does not get information as to the config via the radio coms link, it is programmed (again by tech2) to display Bose during power up.
This sudgests that your car does not have the original display and that it has also not been re-configured to your car using tech2.
As additional info, the wiring loom is little changed for Bose, there is a single additional loom that runs from the drivers kick panel to the amp, if not fitted a plastic insert is connected that routes the stereo speaker outputs to the speaker wiring.
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Or alternatively, your car may have had the original head unt swapped for the Bose one ? Should still function, albeit at a different performance level.
Some good technical advice out here for vehicle information / options etc, we have added to our own database as a result of this thread, as we always see loads of the head units, and know them inside out, but seldom see the vehicles, and cannot always comment on the vehicle specifics as well as others on this forum can.
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Here are the picture of the amp behind the multiplayer and the sub on the other side. I have the CCRT700 head unit.
Amp behind CD Player
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h64/pickledpepper/DSCF0002-3.jpg)
Sub
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h64/pickledpepper/DSCF0004-4.jpg)
and storage over wheel arches
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h64/pickledpepper/DSCF0005-4.jpg)
I have a mini face lift so the multi player is in the rear of the car but apart from that I think the rest of the set up is the same.
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Thanks for all this. I can confirm that the head unit has definitely been changed as the 4 digit code in the audio handbook (that VX confirmed should be the correct one) did not work. I then had the head unit removed and the code 'found' by a local audio tech and it was completely different from the one in the handbook.
So, looks like I maybe have a BOSE configured headunit in a (2000) CDX that has no BOSE additional equipment (sub/amp)? I will double check for wiring loom to make sure when I get 10 mins.
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The display does not get information as to the config via the radio coms link, it is programmed (again by tech2) to display Bose during power up.
This sudgests that your car does not have the original display
So, looks like I maybe have a BOSE configured headunit in a (2000) CDX that has no BOSE additional equipment
What Marks says suggests it is the display that's been changed (or at least, it has too). If the head unit was still in Bose mode you would have problems with a low signal to the speakers - unless you do have a bose system fitted, of course.
Kevin
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Yes that's confusing. I can't tell if the display is original or has been changed, but it seems odd to me that the display would show the BOSE message by itself linked to a non-BOSE head unit. Seems more likely the display would get/not get that message from the head unit at startup, but there you go.
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When we reprogram the Head units, the software that we enter includes the BOSE message automatically and shows on the vehicle display from the radio.
Never had to program a vehicle display to say BOSE . . . . . ?
My best guess is that the radio has been swapped, and not the display as the output protocol is the same for Bose and Non Bose CCR2006 units.
The low Bose outputs are still just about enough to power a full set of 4 Ohm speakers, just don`t expect to wake the neighbours doing it.
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When we reprogram the Head units, the software that we enter includes the BOSE message automatically and shows on the vehicle display from the radio.
Never had to program a vehicle display to say BOSE . . . . . ?
My best guess is that the radio has been swapped, and not the display as the output protocol is the same for Bose and Non Bose CCR2006 units.
The low Bose outputs are still just about enough to power a full set of 4 Ohm speakers, just don`t expect to wake the neighbours doing it.
interesting. the sound is very loud in the car when turned up, and sounds very good, though I'm by no means an expert...
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Sounds like you may have a BOSE or amplified system in there then !!
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Sounds like you may have a BOSE or amplified system in there then !!
I reckon so. With the 2006 unamplified I would never use loud and good in the same sentence ::)
Kevin
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The display does not get information as to the config via the radio coms link, it is programmed (again by tech2) to display Bose during power up.
Hmm I wonder if this is why my Bose setup doesnt work properly. I dont get 'Bose' in the display at any time, perhaps the headend has been replaced but not programmed for bose.
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Sounds like you may have a BOSE or amplified system in there then !!
I reckon so. With the 2006 unamplified I would never use loud and good in the same sentence ::)
Kevin
No, the Bose outputs only a couple of volts and into a 4 ohm load.....your only talking about a watt or so tops and I suspect it goes into a higher impedence drive mode under these operating conditions to.
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Disagree,
When we repair and test the BOSE head units, we run them on standard 4 Ohm speakers in the workshop - They will function reasonably well, quite loud.
The reason that the BOSE amplifier levels run higher than standard Line Output levels is to eliminate as much of the background noise generated by the vehicle as you can by running a higher gain input signal to the amplifier. For some reason BOSE have decided to do this at just below the standard speaker levels. As an educated guess, the Bose is outputting about 3 Watts @ 4 Ohms, but then the standard CCR2006 was only about 8 Watts and the original paper cone speakers were not much more than that. So on that basis, a BOSE output is running the speakers at a good percentage of what they can take, meaning that you will hear a reasonable level of sound.
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I have become an expert on this recently. The reason for this is I have had head unit change on my car before I bought it. I have the omega elite with BOSE speakers and amp. Unfortunately for me I have the head unit for your car which is the cdr 2005. This does not work great with BOSE. I am desperately looking for a ccr 2006 b which is what you have. Not to be confused with ccr 2006 which would be fine in your car. The ccr 2006 b has a slight diference inside which changes the output so that the BOSE amp can deal with the features that would normally be dealt with in the head unit. The advantage of CDR 2005 is that you lose the manual fade/balance and bass/treble. With CDR 2005 it becomes on screen adjustable which is great, but the outputs are wrong for the BOSE system. Hence my problem. And your problem. The CDR 2005 was an upgrade for the ccr 2006 but unfortunately for me the upgrade does not work great with BOSE. Hope this helps. It has taken hours for me to get to this knowledge point. :) :)
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To the best of my knowledge, the CCR2006 and CCR2006B as you call them are actually one and the same unit with the exception that Tech2 is used to program the unit for BOSE or standard output.
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when I spoke to vauxhall they said different. But that could be a money thing. It costs £100 more if you buy new for the ccr 2006 b than cdr 2006. If you have an answer to this or know someone who does this would be great. One thing I do know is that I need to change my head unit from cdr 2005.
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They also have different part numbers, if this helps
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AFAIK a Bose configured head unit can still run standard speakers but to get the full use of the system you will need to install Bose speakers the Bose amp and the Bose sub...if you have the wiring installed and your head unit has already been set up for Bose then your more than half the way there! :y Sub as said will be in the passengers side back cubby hole if its there...amp will be in the drivers side back cubby hole if its there...if you take a door card off then the Bose speakers are distinctly different to the standard ones...
As it happens I have 4 Bose speakers, an estate sub and an amp sat here...if you want/need them then let me know :y
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when I spoke to vauxhall they said different. But that could be a money thing. It costs £100 more if you buy new for the ccr 2006 b than cdr 2006. If you have an answer to this or know someone who does this would be great. One thing I do know is that I need to change my head unit from cdr 2005.
Might just be a simple case of the CCR2006 being none bose configured from the box while the CCR2006b is Bose configured from the box although both can be set either way via tech2...just easier to have different part numbers so you know either way what you started with and easier for Vaux to select what you need if you buy new :y I'm 99% certain a CCR2006 thats not set up for Bose can be Bose configured via Tech2 and will work fine (but then of course you have to pay for the Tech2 session) :y
As all the CCR2006 head units are configurable for Bose I very much doubt the head units are actually different at all, just part numbered for Bose set on or off
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To clarify all this:
CCR2006 units are functionally all identical. Tech2 can change the config between bose/non-bose, and any new unit would need programming anyway.
They have a different part number as some have 'Bose' written on cassette door.
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Im all upset now, :'(
I dont get Bose come up on the screen and it aint etched on the cassette flap,and its a Bose system plus ccr2006 great sound as well.
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its the display that says BOSE i had a facelift GID for an experiment and it said BOSE on it everytime i turned the ignition on & off its a config on the Tech 2
the big way to tell if you have a BOSE stereo is that it usually says BOSE on the tape FLAP :y
a bose stereo on a non bose system doesnt provide enough umph in the volume department so really loud isnt that loud i found on my CCRT700 anyway
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the big way to tell if you have a BOSE stereo is that it usually says BOSE on the tape FLAP
Not quite. Although unlikely that a stereo with BOSE on the flap has ever been reprogrammed for normal use, that are far more BOSE enabled stereos out there that simply say BOSE when you switch them on.
a bose stereo on a non bose system doesnt provide enough umph in the volume department so really loud isnt that loud i found on my CCRT700 anyway
It the range of the signal that is a problem here, as the BOSE amplifier is looking for different level variations to drive the amplifier. You will notice that if a non-bose head unit is connected to a BOSE amplifier that you have very little control over the sound at low frequencies and you overdrive it like mad, to the point of destruction when turned up. But most (if not all?) BOSE stereos can actually run a non BOSE system very well, but you will first need to turn the BOSE output configuration "off". This is done with Tech2
;)
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To the best of my knowledge, the CCR2006 and CCR2006B as you call them are actually one and the same unit with the exception that Tech2 is used to program the unit for BOSE or standard output.
Unfortunately this isn't true, I bought a ccr 2006 from mutantcav, for my BOSE system in my car.
I then went and visited TB with his tech2, and to his amazement and
Marks DTM Calib (he rang him), it cannot be coded to BOSE as there are two models of the ccr2006 out there.
Something about A and B versions, but if you have the wrong one forget it.
I am now looking for a ccr2006 with BOSE on the flap as although not all those without BOSE on the flap are unable to be changed to BOSE, I want to be sure the next one I get can be. :y
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To the best of my knowledge, the CCR2006 and CCR2006B as you call them are actually one and the same unit with the exception that Tech2 is used to program the unit for BOSE or standard output.
Unfortunately this isn't true, I bought a ccr 2006 from mutantcav, for my BOSE system in my car.
I then went and visited TB with his tech2, and to his amazement and
Marks DTM Calib (he rang him), it cannot be coded to BOSE as there are two models of the ccr2006 out there.
Something about A and B versions, but if you have the wrong one forget it.
I am now looking for a ccr2006 with BOSE on the flap as although not all those without BOSE on the flap are unable to be changed to BOSE, I want to be sure the next one I get can be. :y
Any chance of a photo of the label with all the numbers on, as this is something I have never come across either
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To the best of my knowledge, the CCR2006 and CCR2006B as you call them are actually one and the same unit with the exception that Tech2 is used to program the unit for BOSE or standard output.
Unfortunately this isn't true, I bought a ccr 2006 from mutantcav, for my BOSE system in my car.
I then went and visited TB with his tech2, and to his amazement and
Marks DTM Calib (he rang him), it cannot be coded to BOSE as there are two models of the ccr2006 out there.
Something about A and B versions, but if you have the wrong one forget it.
I am now looking for a ccr2006 with BOSE on the flap as although not all those without BOSE on the flap are unable to be changed to BOSE, I want to be sure the next one I get can be. :y
Any chance of a photo of the label with all the numbers on, as this is something I have never come across either
Definitely will take a photo when I remove it (when I source a new one), they are too much of a pain to remove at a drop of a hat, so you will have to wait till I source a new one :y
I will definately let you have a photo of the numbers when I remove it :y