Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: berkin on 13 June 2009, 13:20:04

Title: Burn a Cd
Post by: berkin on 13 June 2009, 13:20:04
Hi, I own a 2000 model 2.5 v6. The sound system has a cd-changer with a 4 cd cartridge.

Does anyone know if there is a way to burn tracks on a recordable cd and make it compatible to the player. I have tried several times and the cd-player doesn't see the discs.

By the way there is no problem with the player. It just works fine with the original cd albums bought.

Cheers
Berkin
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: VXL V6 on 13 June 2009, 13:28:00
You can burn a CD-R and play it but expect the laser on your autochanger to die after a couple of months if it's one of the facelift units with a 4 disc changer.
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: berkin on 13 June 2009, 13:29:58
Yes it's that version facelift. :y

Thanks a lot. :)

Berkin
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: Dave DND on 13 June 2009, 15:00:31
Vauxhall head units are NOT compatable with recordable media, if you trawl back over previous posts, you wills ee some detailed explanations as to why not.

 ;)
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: KillerWatt on 13 June 2009, 15:37:25
Quote
Hi, I own a 2000 model 2.5 v6. The sound system has a cd-changer with a 4 cd cartridge.

Does anyone know if there is a way to burn tracks on a recordable cd and make it compatible to the player. I have tried several times and the cd-player doesn't see the discs.

By the way there is no problem with the player. It just works fine with the original cd albums bought.

Cheers
Berkin
You want decent media (ie, Verbatim, Taiyo Yuden), and don't burn any faster than 10x.

Regarding so called damage being caused to the head unit by using CD-R media, mine (CCR 2006) has been playing CD-R media for the last 3 years, and it still plays it quite happily today.

What software are you using to create the disc, and what discs are you using?
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: Dave DND on 13 June 2009, 16:52:31
Quote
Quote
Hi, I own a 2000 model 2.5 v6. The sound system has a cd-changer with a 4 cd cartridge.

Does anyone know if there is a way to burn tracks on a recordable cd and make it compatible to the player. I have tried several times and the cd-player doesn't see the discs.

By the way there is no problem with the player. It just works fine with the original cd albums bought.

Cheers
Berkin
You want decent media (ie, Verbatim, Taiyo Yuden), and don't burn any faster than 10x.

Regarding so called damage being caused to the head unit by using CD-R media, mine (CCR 2006) has been playing CD-R media for the last 3 years, and it still plays it quite happily today.

What software are you using to create the disc, and what discs are you using?

Before flooding this post with "Mine plays it ok" remember that these players were out long before CDR`s were, and the spec of them is wildly different. Just because yours plays, doesn`t mean that it should, and beleive me, damage is being caused by the laser straining to read the incompatable media format. Please have a look at the previous discussions regarding this topic, pit sizes, and layer specs, and you will see that it has been discussed and reported in exceptional detail.

 ;)
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: KillerWatt on 13 June 2009, 17:14:07
Well I don't know how long the 2006 has been out, but CD-R has been around since at least 1995 (I have the first disc I ever burnt and it still works today).
Since then we have come quite a way, and if you buy decent media then the performance characteristics are as near to pressed silver as it's ever going to get.

I have read several topics on CD-R allegedly breaking the physical hardware, but to be honest Dave, if that does happen then I won't lose any sleep over it because it will only cost a couple of hundred to replace it with something a bit more modern.
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: Dave DND on 13 June 2009, 17:39:49
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Well I don't know how long the 2006 has been out, but CD-R has been around since at least 1995 (I have the first disc I ever burnt and it still works today).
Since then we have come quite a way, and if you buy decent media then the performance characteristics are as near to pressed silver as it's ever going to get.

I have read several topics on CD-R allegedly breaking the physical hardware, but to be honest Dave, if that does happen then I won't lose any sleep over it because it will only cost a couple of hundred to replace it with something a bit more modern.

Yes, CDR has been around on computers for many years, but didn`t hit the in car market until around 2000, and wasn`t taken up as OEM fitment by Vauxhall until 2004.

CDR is NOT the same format as regular Audio CD, and although some older units with good lasers will see the disc, they will strain to see the smaller format as used for computer data. You are correct though, there are loads of articles on the net about laser destruction through the repeated use of CDR`s and yet still no-one listens.

Yes, we have come a long way, and modern sets have no troubles, but a 10+ year old stereo is still never going to be compatable, just because things have moved forwards is it?

 :y
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: zirk on 13 June 2009, 17:43:28
Killerwatt, if you ask Dave nicely, He's got a Warehouse full of confiscated Bose units He'll let you have a lot cheaper.
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: Dave DND on 13 June 2009, 17:47:21
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Killerwatt, if you ask Dave nicely, He's got a Warehouse full of confiscated Bose units He'll let you have a lot cheaper.

 ;D ;D ;D  :P
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: KillerWatt on 13 June 2009, 18:07:17
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CDR is NOT the same format as regular Audio CD, and although some older units with good lasers will see the disc, they will strain to see the smaller format as used for computer data.
CD-R is a media type Dave, not a format. It doesn't matter what is on the disc, only that it is recorded correctly if you want it to work.

Quote
Killerwatt, if you ask Dave nicely, He's got a Warehouse full of confiscated Bose units He'll let you have a lot cheaper.
(http://www.natadsltest2.clara.co.uk/img/rofl.gif)
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: Dave DND on 13 June 2009, 18:23:40
Quote
Quote
CDR is NOT the same format as regular Audio CD, and although some older units with good lasers will see the disc, they will strain to see the smaller format as used for computer data.
CD-R is a media type Dave, not a format. It doesn't matter what is on the disc, only that it is recorded correctly if you want it to work.

Quote
Killerwatt, if you ask Dave nicely, He's got a Warehouse full of confiscated Bose units He'll let you have a lot cheaper.
(http://www.natadsltest2.clara.co.uk/img/rofl.gif)

No - you are mistaken.

Disc media may appear similar to the eye, but construction and format are also very very different.
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: KillerWatt on 13 June 2009, 19:02:42
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Quote
Quote
CDR is NOT the same format as regular Audio CD, and although some older units with good lasers will see the disc, they will strain to see the smaller format as used for computer data.
CD-R is a media type Dave, not a format. It doesn't matter what is on the disc, only that it is recorded correctly if you want it to work.

Quote
Killerwatt, if you ask Dave nicely, He's got a Warehouse full of confiscated Bose units He'll let you have a lot cheaper.
(http://www.natadsltest2.clara.co.uk/img/rofl.gif)

No - you are mistaken.

Disc media may appear similar to the eye, but construction and format are also very very different.
I'd beg to differ Dave.
Media type is just that (eg, CD-R, CD-RW), while the format is the standard (Red book, Green book, Orange book, etc) used during the writing process.

I'm not disputing that one make of CD-R will perform differently from another because there is some real cheap crap out there, that's why I told the OP to buy decent media and make sure he is recording the disc in the format the 2006 can read (CD-DA in this case).
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: Dave DND on 13 June 2009, 19:14:58
Media types are different, and will allow the writing in different formats yes, but the media format used for writing computer data is a completely different format to that for used for Audio. The pit spacings and sizes are a completely different format. The discs that are commonly known as CDR`s are computer data discs, NOT audio discs. There are some specifically designed CDR Audio discs out there, but as yet, we have not compiled any data as to their suitability. My friends at Sony technical (who make them) are also open minded.

If you have a copy of the Red, Green or Orange books, I suggest to open them up, have a read and you will see.
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: TheBoy on 13 June 2009, 19:15:16
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
CDR is NOT the same format as regular Audio CD, and although some older units with good lasers will see the disc, they will strain to see the smaller format as used for computer data.
CD-R is a media type Dave, not a format. It doesn't matter what is on the disc, only that it is recorded correctly if you want it to work.

Quote
Killerwatt, if you ask Dave nicely, He's got a Warehouse full of confiscated Bose units He'll let you have a lot cheaper.
(http://www.natadsltest2.clara.co.uk/img/rofl.gif)

No - you are mistaken.

Disc media may appear similar to the eye, but construction and format are also very very different.
I'd beg to differ Dave.
Media type is just that (eg, CD-R, CD-RW), while the format is the standard (Red book, Green book, Orange book, etc) used during the writing process.

I'm not disputing that one make of CD-R will perform differently from another because there is some real cheap crap out there, that's why I told the OP to buy decent media and make sure he is recording the disc in the format the 2006 can read (CD-DA in this case).
In laymans terms, consider the cdr format to be a bit like an old fashioned low level format (before intelligent drives came along).  If the drive cannot read this, whether for physical or firmware reasons, it don't matter what format you put on top, the drive will struggle.


As it happens, redbook defines the 'low level format' specs, and cdrs do NOT meet it.

Often a drive can read it physically (just), then obviously the firmware can sort out the 'Audio CD' format part.

The problem comes when older drives, such as all factory fit Omega ones, are barely able to get the focus right on the smaller 'pits', putting extra strain (outside of original design) on the laser focussing, and killing the laser.  Phillips lasers seem particularly prone.


I too have had much success with cdrs, but I see an awful lot of NCDC series (as I'm able to decode/depair) with buggered lasers.  I suspect Dave DND sees an awful lot more, seeing as its what he does ;)


I try to use originals now, both in the omega (cdc3 changer) and the rover (Philips rc026?), but if i do use a cdr, I do concur on quality media, and 1x burn (yes i still have a pioneer that can 1x cdr). no idea if it makes a difference, and certainly the rover's changer is failing again :(
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: KillerWatt on 13 June 2009, 19:38:38
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Media types are different, and will allow the writing in different formats yes, but the media format used for writing computer data is a completely different format to that for used for Audio.
I don't recall saying otherwise.

Quote
The discs that are commonly known as CDR`s are computer data discs, NOT audio discs.
There is no physical difference between the two Dave.

Quote
There are some specifically designed CDR Audio discs out there, but as yet, we have not compiled any data as to their suitability.
The only thing that is "special" about them is that they are designed for use in the standalone recorders that connect to a hi-fi.
"Normal" (I use that term very loosely) CD-R's won't work in the standalone units because they don't have the special header info pre-written that tells the standalone unit it can record to them (so you are forced to buy the overpriced discs).
As far as performance goes, readability comes down to how well the disc is made in the first place.

Quote
If you have a copy of the Red, Green or Orange books, I suggest to open them up, have a read and you will see.
Red book is just a standard for writing Audio CD Dave, nothing more, nothing less.


PS
Here ya go Dave, you can read it for yourself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_(audio_CD_standard)
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: Jimbob on 13 June 2009, 19:44:47
IIRC CDR-Audio are identical to CDR, just more expensive as they paid a small royalty to the music industry.
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: TheBoy on 13 June 2009, 19:44:47
Quote
Quote
Media types are different, and will allow the writing in different formats yes, but the media format used for writing computer data is a completely different format to that for used for Audio.
I don't recall saying otherwise.

Quote
The discs that are commonly known as CDR`s are computer data discs, NOT audio discs.
There is no physical difference between the two Dave.

Quote
There are some specifically designed CDR Audio discs out there, but as yet, we have not compiled any data as to their suitability.
The only thing that is "special" about them is that they are designed for use in the standalone recorders that connect to a hi-fi.
"Normal" (I use that term very loosely) CD-R's won't work in the standalone units because they don't have the special header info pre-written that tells the standalone unit it can record to them (so you are forced to buy the overpriced discs).
As far as performance goes, readability comes down to how well the disc is made in the first place.

Quote
If you have a copy of the Red, Green or Orange books, I suggest to open them up, have a read and you will see.
Red book is just a standard for writing Audio CD Dave, nothing more, nothing less.


PS
Here ya go Dave, you can read it for yourself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_(audio_CD_standard)
Read the proper standard, Killerwatt, not some interpretation made by a community of people who frequently don not fully know what thery are talking about.


As said earlier, CDRs are unable to meet Redbook. The players in question were designed to play Redbook (only) compliant disks.
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: TheBoy on 13 June 2009, 19:47:26
That wikipedia link has sod all useful info on it :(
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: TheBoy on 13 June 2009, 19:49:12
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IIRC CDR-Audio are identical to CDR, just more expensive as they paid a small royalty to the music industry.
I thought they used a different construction to make the refelctivity better for various normal players  :-/
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: KillerWatt on 13 June 2009, 20:05:43
Quote
Quote
IIRC CDR-Audio are identical to CDR, just more expensive as they paid a small royalty to the music industry.
I thought they used a different construction to make the refelctivity better for various normal players  :-/
No J, the only difference between the two is that recordable discs marketed as being for CD-Audio can be used in standalone recorders that connect to the hi-fi.
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: Jimbob on 13 June 2009, 20:22:51
Ill happily stand corrected, but be >20 years since I read about it.

£1 to 1p there is a degree of truth to my suggestion, even if it isnt the full story.
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: TheBoy on 14 June 2009, 09:00:49
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Ill happily stand corrected, but be >20 years since I read about it.

£1 to 1p there is a degree of truth to my suggestion, even if it isnt the full story.
I know some countries put a royalty on all blank media, as they know they will always struggle to cope with copyright theft, particularly for music.
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: Dave DND on 14 June 2009, 09:19:07
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That wikipedia link has sod all useful info on it :(

That wikipedia one isn`t even close to the Red book.


Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: berkin on 14 June 2009, 12:11:14
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Well I don't know how long the 2006 has been out, but CD-R has been around since at least 1995 (I have the first disc I ever burnt and it still works today).
Since then we have come quite a way, and if you buy decent media then the performance characteristics are as near to pressed silver as it's ever going to get.

I have read several topics on CD-R allegedly breaking the physical hardware, but to be honest Dave, if that does happen then I won't lose any sleep over it because it will only cost a couple of hundred to replace it with something a bit more modern.

I use a apple macbook with roxio toast to burn them and TDK cd-r
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: TheBoy on 14 June 2009, 12:33:33
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Quote
Well I don't know how long the 2006 has been out, but CD-R has been around since at least 1995 (I have the first disc I ever burnt and it still works today).
Since then we have come quite a way, and if you buy decent media then the performance characteristics are as near to pressed silver as it's ever going to get.

I have read several topics on CD-R allegedly breaking the physical hardware, but to be honest Dave, if that does happen then I won't lose any sleep over it because it will only cost a couple of hundred to replace it with something a bit more modern.

I use a apple macbook with roxio toast to burn them and TDK cd-r
iirc, TDK use various dyes.  IF you must use CDRs, I'd go for a better quality CDR, and keep the burn rate down.  Far too long since I've used Toast to remember how to set this, and its probably changed too much anyway ;D


This may help the laser last a bit longer, but I'd try to stick to originals if you possibly can.
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: berkin on 14 June 2009, 12:52:43
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Quote
Quote
Well I don't know how long the 2006 has been out, but CD-R has been around since at least 1995 (I have the first disc I ever burnt and it still works today).
Since then we have come quite a way, and if you buy decent media then the performance characteristics are as near to pressed silver as it's ever going to get.

I have read several topics on CD-R allegedly breaking the physical hardware, but to be honest Dave, if that does happen then I won't lose any sleep over it because it will only cost a couple of hundred to replace it with something a bit more modern.

I use a apple macbook with roxio toast to burn them and TDK cd-r
iirc, TDK use various dyes.  IF you must use CDRs, I'd go for a better quality CDR, and keep the burn rate down.  Far too long since I've used Toast to remember how to set this, and its probably changed too much anyway ;D


This may help the laser last a bit longer, but I'd try to stick to originals if you possibly can.

I generally use originals, but sometimes, especially on long trips, radio tuner won't function anymore due to low signal quality and i want to listen my own collection of songs.

Anyway thanks a lot for your advices. :y

Cheers
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: TheBoy on 14 June 2009, 13:04:33
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Quote
Quote
Quote
Well I don't know how long the 2006 has been out, but CD-R has been around since at least 1995 (I have the first disc I ever burnt and it still works today).
Since then we have come quite a way, and if you buy decent media then the performance characteristics are as near to pressed silver as it's ever going to get.

I have read several topics on CD-R allegedly breaking the physical hardware, but to be honest Dave, if that does happen then I won't lose any sleep over it because it will only cost a couple of hundred to replace it with something a bit more modern.

I use a apple macbook with roxio toast to burn them and TDK cd-r
iirc, TDK use various dyes.  IF you must use CDRs, I'd go for a better quality CDR, and keep the burn rate down.  Far too long since I've used Toast to remember how to set this, and its probably changed too much anyway ;D


This may help the laser last a bit longer, but I'd try to stick to originals if you possibly can.

I generally use originals, but sometimes, especially on long trips, radio tuner won't function anymore due to low signal quality and i want to listen my own collection of songs.

Anyway thanks a lot for your advices. :y

Cheers
Other option is mp3 player, but no ideal way of linking it up, looking at FM adapters, cassette adapters if you have a tape player, or some aftermarket kits that 'steal' the speakers from the stereo.
Title: Re: Burn a Cd
Post by: KillerWatt on 14 June 2009, 19:19:04
If you're going for the "FM Transmitter" route, look at the horrendously overpriced Maplins before you pay double what even they charge from the so called specialists for the same cheap chinese crap.