Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: midlands al on 28 April 2010, 10:19:36
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Goor Morning Folks,
I'm hoping to pick some of the vast wealth of knowledge you have from your brains on my car. The story so far..
I drove home from work the other day and the car was fine. :)
Nipped indoors to pick up some cash and came back to the car, went to start it and got 'click' from the starter motor solenoid and that was it. >:(
I was literally gone a couple of minutes.
When I turn the key into 'Ignition Position' i get an engine symbol with an electrical flash through it with the usual warning lights. This stays on continuously and does not go off until key off.
The car does not make any attempt to crank or anything. When i go to 'Crank Position' the warning lights go very dim but no attempt to crank.
Does anybody have any ideas so far..any help would be much appreciated as i'm blagging lifts at the moment.
Cheers
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could just be that your battery has died suddenly,try a set of jump leads from another vehicle and see what happens,failing that it sounds like your starter
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Where in the midlands are you Al? I'm local(ish) if you want a hand ;) :y
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Thanks for the responses.
I swapped over the starter motor at the weekend (I spent something like 15 hours replacing it) and tried again and i got 'click'.
I connected a jump lead from the starter body to the battery negative and tried again and i got 'click'.
Whilst 'fannying about' swapping the starter motor i had the battery on charge and tried it again with the replacement starter motor, this time the battery was at 13.8 volts and again 'click'.
I borrowed an OBD scan tool from work and plugged it into the port. Put ignition on the scantool said it couldn't even see the car let alone read it.
Oh the other thing i did was replace the battery in the keyfob (2 button type). I put it in the ignition for and after 30 seconds (as the manual says) tried the central locking whilst in and it worked.
I'm located in Rugby and thanks for the offer.
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Thanks for the responses.
I swapped over the starter motor at the weekend (I spent something like 15 hours replacing it) and tried again and i got 'click'.
I connected a jump lead from the starter body to the battery negative and tried again and i got 'click'.
Whilst 'fannying about' swapping the starter motor i had the battery on charge and tried it again with the replacement starter motor, this time the battery was at 13.8 volts and again 'click'.
I borrowed an OBD scan tool from work and plugged it into the port. Put ignition on the scantool said it couldn't even see the car let alone read it.
Oh the other thing i did was replace the battery in the keyfob (2 button type). I put it in the ignition for and after 30 seconds (as the manual says) tried the central locking whilst in and it worked.
I'm located in Rugby and thanks for the offer.
Not all that far, I'll figure out what I'm up to at the weekend and send you a PM :y
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I'm away on holiday for a week from friday :) and get back late the following Saturday. I've then got to get something sorted for Monday :(
:y For the offer so i'll take you up on that. I've got a strange feeling it's going to be something really silly and simple, something connected with the immobilizer.
What does the engine symbol with the lightening flash mean? It's not the MIL is it?
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I'm away on holiday for a week from friday :) and get back late the following Saturday. I've then got to get something sorted for Monday :(
:y For the offer so i'll take you up on that. I've got a strange feeling it's going to be something really silly and simple, something connected with the immobilizer.
What does the engine symbol with the lightening flash mean? It's not the MIL is it?
The light is your Engine Mangament light. Not turning over on the starter is NOT an immobilser fault though, it should still turn over. If you had an immobilser fault, the EML will flash as you turn it over.
Unless you've replaced a faulty starter with another faulty part ... unlikely/unlucky .... what's the wiring like between battery/starter/alternator? You could have a dodgy connection somewhere.
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Al just had a thought, follow the link below and do a paperclip test on it, report back with the codes :y
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My MIL lamp comes straight on and doesn't change condition until i key off. When attempting to crank it just sits there, glowing and teasing.
I did a couple of simple checks yesterday -
I have continuity between the body of the starter motor and the battery negative.
I have battery voltage at the battery terminal on the starter motor.
I have a voltage at the starter motor solenoid terminal when I go into crank position.
I'll go through tonite / tomorrow and double check them and check the alternator battery terminals.
I'm going to try the 'paperclip' test tonite / tomorrow and see what or if anything flags.
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I have battery voltage at the battery terminal on the starter motor.
I have a voltage at the starter motor solenoid terminal when I go into crank position. .....
You have voltage, but is there enough contact/connection to give the required current? ;) ;)
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I've been looking at the paperclip test for my car and i've found conflicting info.
I have the 16 Way Diagnostic connector in the fusebox under the steering column and one document says short out pins 4 & 6 on the connector and another says 5 & 6.
It is definitely the 4 & 6 isn't it with the 2 digit codes?
Thanks for everybodies assistance in this so far.
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get someone to measure the voltage across the battery while you are trying to crank,if the voltage stays at 12-13 volts your starter is not taking/getting power
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If you have a set of jump leads to hand, try connecting one of them from the negative terminal to the engine block itself
If it starts, then could be down to a faulty earth cable from the engine to the chassis that is failing under load - not uncommon and would certainly give the fault you are describing for the "click"
Stumped on the EML light though
Also worth giving the crank a quarter turn with a big spanner just in case engine is "locked" in the position its in
:-/
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Hi Dave,
I've tried with the jumper lead to the battery negative to engine block, tried it and made no difference.
I've spun the engine through 360 deg with a spanner, tried it and made no difference.
Ahhhhhh >:(
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Sounds like a knackered starter that you have just fitted then ?
If it were me, I`d be pulling it out and trying it with the jump leads out of the car.
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Sounds like a knackered starter that you have just fitted then ?
If it were me, I`d be pulling it out and trying it with the jump leads out of the car.
:y :y :y :y And me.
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Sounds like a knackered starter that you have just fitted then ?
If it were me, I`d be pulling it out and trying it with the jump leads out of the car.
:y :y :y :y And me.
and checking the one thats come off
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I did the paperclip test this morning and the only code was
31 No Engine RPM Signal (Engine wasn't running so not concerned)
I'm pleased by that at least. :)
I've got a current clamp from work so i can put that on the car tonite and when i come back from my holiday i'll rip the starter motor out and have a look...again.. ::)
The other problem to sort out is my leaking CAM covers that are spraying oil over my engine bay.. :(
That i can have a look at as well. I'm not as >:( with the old car now.. she needs tlc.
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Stick a screwdriver across the starter solenoid it may just be stuck.
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Morning Midlands al,
Looks like I have a similar problem, my wife went to the airport last Wednesday, all OK, came to start the car Friday,Click, exactly like yours. Was going to have the starter motor changed but maybe it isn't that after all looking at your problem.
Do you have any further news or are you still stuck?
If I find anything I'll let you know.
Best of luck.
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Dodgy starter motor or solenoid if earths ok.
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Thanks for everyone's input so far.
Progress..
I attached a battery boost to the car yesterday, started it..and she started up and ran well. ;D
Left the car idling whilst i disconnected the battery boost and it ticked over with no problems. All the warning lights and MIL lamp went out. ;D
Keyed off, keyed on and...click..nothing. :(
I checked the engine earth and it was secure. I had a good resistance and continuity to the battery negative. ;D
For info the engine earth is on the front of the block, bottom passenger side (RHD) just behind a pulley (Can't remember if it's aircon or PAS) on my 2.5 v6
I repeated the battery boost test several times and it was fine all times. I think i'm going to get a new battery..
I don't know if the starter motor was faulty because apparently these you can't bench test and the replacement showed the same symptoms.
Moral is check the battery before the long tedious and arduous task of changing the starter motor.
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I don't know if the starter motor was faulty because apparently these you can't bench test and ......
Course you can, you need a pair of jump leads & a battery. You're only doing what would happen on the car, but without a key ;) ;)
It just clicked when you tried to re-start it on its own battery, because it takes a good number of miles to fully charge a healthy flat battery on the car, never mind a fubar'd battery. :y
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Had this on mine, battery plates in one cell had collapsed therefore would not hold / 'store' sufficient volts for long; therby not being able give enough 'grunt' to the starter motor to turn the engine over. Each cell provides approx 2 volts (6 cells per 12 volt battery); take one out of the equation and the batteries volts (or 'grunt') drops significantly and will not have enough to energise all of the relevant electrics.You have proved this by using the jump / boost pack.
New battery time I'm afraid, GM batteries on trade card seem good value. Trade card available through autobahnstormers (£20 p/a) and provides good discount on others items including service items including oil.
HTH
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Progress...sort of.
I boosted (Used a power pack pack not hijacked) the car last night and drove it to halfords.
The battery I bought was smaller in size but bigger in oomph, the original battery was only 300CCA this new one is 520CCA and with a trade card it was only £52..bargain.
Replaced the battery, started it and...it ran no problems. :y
Went to the car this morning, started it and...nothing. All of the dash lights came on as usual but no starter click. :(
At the moment i'm not to >:( as when i got home i was playing with the remote key fob half hearted so i think :-/ i may need to program it properly.
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Going to just jump in with a really obvious thought here... Have you tried starting it with the gear selector in both N and P?
Sounds like it could be a dodgy interlock contact :-/
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I would also check for battery drain -
It could be that your new battery has "flattened" overnight and is now giving similar symptoms ?
Can certainly knacker a battery in the way that 3.2omegaestate has described if left like this for a while
:-/
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:-/. I don't know if i did. I think this morning i was a bit >:( with the car and blagged a lift off a workmate instead of just sitting down and thinking..don't do enough of that.
I'll give your suggestion a try aswell. cheers
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I would also check for battery drain -
It could be that your new battery has "flattened" overnight and is now giving similar symptoms ?
:-/
Yep... That too :y
Reason I'm leaning towards the interlock is that it did it with a booster attached at one point too :-/
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:-/. I don't know if i did. I think this morning i was a bit >:( with the car and blagged a lift off a workmate instead of just sitting down and thinking..don't do enough of that.
I'll give your suggestion a try aswell. cheers
Also try running through all the gears, back and forth. Then back to park, rocking it against the stops as you try cranking it :y
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I disconnected the battery earth and left it for a few minutes, went back connected it..it runs.
Took me about 30 seconds to do and she runs great.
:y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y
Thanks to all for the advice
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The crimped connections on the big wires (positive as well as ground) are prone to breaking up and losing connection.
Before I got my first Omega someone had removed the auxiliary fuse box and spliced in new lengths of cable to all the big wires that go to the battery.
Because of the large current that the starter draws the broken crimp connections can temporarily spot weld themselves back together. Moving the wires around to fit a different battery may have temporarily made a good enough contact to start the engine.
Because the same fat wire goes to both the starter and alternator a broken crimp will upset both cranking current and charging current :(
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I had this on my old Golf GTI turbo, turns out it was the battery, when I was convinced it was the starter.