Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: Elite Pete on 25 June 2010, 09:16:45

Title: Sub woofer help
Post by: Elite Pete on 25 June 2010, 09:16:45
Please be gentle with me, i'm old and don't understand ICE ::)

I have a facelift CD diesel which had a CDR2005 installed, my first idea was to fit an NCDC2013 because i'm breaking an Elite with the sytem and wiring all there but after reading on here that the Bose can easily and more importantly, cheaply be bettered i've been and purchased a basic head unit that has a modest 50w output. I'm looking to update the door speakers and fit two 8" to 10" 200 to 300W subs in the rear shelf covered with the original Bose speaker shelf. The head unit I have just bought has a Subwoofer Audio Out lead so am I right in thinking all I need is a 12V power from the head unit to the Amp and a phono lead from the Subwoofer audio lead to the amp. Another quick question is, I don't want a car with booming bass so are the 8" to 10" subs suitable and what wattage amp would I need.

TIA :y
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Kevin Wood on 25 June 2010, 10:46:10
Quote
Please be gentle with me, i'm old and don't understand ICE ::)

I have a facelift CD diesel which had a CDR2005 installed, my first idea was to fit an NCDC2013 because i'm breaking an Elite with the sytem and wiring all there but after reading on here that the Bose can easily and more importantly, cheaply be bettered i've been and purchased a basic head unit that has a modest 50w output. I'm looking to update the door speakers and fit two 8" to 10" 200 to 300W subs in the rear shelf covered with the original Bose speaker shelf. The head unit I have just bought has a Subwoofer Audio Out lead so am I right in thinking all I need is a 12V power from the head unit to the Amp and a phono lead from the Subwoofer audio lead to the amp. Another quick question is, I don't want a car with booming bass so are the 8" to 10" subs suitable and what wattage amp would I need.

TIA :y

The head unit signal to the amp is only to tell the amp to turn on. You will need a separate, fused power connection from the battery to the amp.

From what you are saying, I'd say try it with just some decent door speakers fitted first. You might not need a subwoofer and all the hassle of fitting an amp in the boot..

Kevin
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Dave DND on 25 June 2010, 11:02:20
What head unit are you running?

 :-?
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Elite Pete on 25 June 2010, 11:03:51
Quote
Quote
Please be gentle with me, i'm old and don't understand ICE ::)

I have a facelift CD diesel which had a CDR2005 installed, my first idea was to fit an NCDC2013 because i'm breaking an Elite with the sytem and wiring all there but after reading on here that the Bose can easily and more importantly, cheaply be bettered i've been and purchased a basic head unit that has a modest 50w output. I'm looking to update the door speakers and fit two 8" to 10" 200 to 300W subs in the rear shelf covered with the original Bose speaker shelf. The head unit I have just bought has a Subwoofer Audio Out lead so am I right in thinking all I need is a 12V power from the head unit to the Amp and a phono lead from the Subwoofer audio lead to the amp. Another quick question is, I don't want a car with booming bass so are the 8" to 10" subs suitable and what wattage amp would I need.

TIA :y

The head unit signal to the amp is only to tell the amp to turn on. You will need a separate, fused power connection from the battery to the amp.

From what you are saying, I'd say try it with just some decent door speakers fitted first. You might not need a subwoofer and all the hassle of fitting an amp in the boot..

Kevin
I just thought that while I had the interior out (fitting leather, digital tv aerial and sat nav aerial) I would run the cables for an amp/subs ;)
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Elite Pete on 25 June 2010, 11:04:13
Quote
What head unit are you running?

 :-?
Cracklemaster ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Kevin Wood on 25 June 2010, 11:20:06
Quote
I just thought that while I had the interior out (fitting leather, digital tv aerial and sat nav aerial) I would run the cables for an amp/subs ;)

Fair enough. Might as well put the cables in.  :y

Battery cable through one of the large grommets by the pollen filter and then down the passenger side sill. Signal cables and switching signal down the driver's side sill.

Then ask Mr. DND for a drive unit recommendation that will work well against the volume of air in the boot.

Kevin

Kevin
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Elite Pete on 25 June 2010, 11:42:03
Quote
Quote
I just thought that while I had the interior out (fitting leather, digital tv aerial and sat nav aerial) I would run the cables for an amp/subs ;)

Fair enough. Might as well put the cables in.  :y

Battery cable through one of the large grommets by the pollen filter and then down the passenger side sill. Signal cables and switching signal down the driver's side sill.

Then ask Mr. DND for a drive unit recommendation that will work well against the volume of air in the boot.

Kevin

Kevin
What are these Kevin and where would they run from/to ::)

Told you I was useless at this stuff ;D
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Kevin Wood on 25 June 2010, 12:09:16
Quote
What are these Kevin and where would they run from/to ::)

Told you I was useless at this stuff ;D

From the head unit to the amp.

Coax cable for the audio signals and a single switching wire to tell the amp to power up when the head unit does.

Probably easiest to buy a kit... I notice Dave sells them. http://www.dndservices.co.uk/px006.html

Not, however, that you might need a longer power cable. 5m is not quite enough to do an Omega, IME. Might just about reach the parcel shelf, I suppose.

Kevin
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Dave DND on 25 June 2010, 12:10:05
I often get asked what my recommendations are, so here is what I spent the other day doing - Clarion have just launched a new range of speakers, and as many know, I will seldom recommend any products that I have not had first hand experience of.

Just kitted out our recent Astra cabriolet with some very pleasing results. The most common budget mentioned to me is around £400 these days, so that was going to be my target. How far can I go on an absolute max budget of £400 for everything - hopefully this may assist others in what the guy who sells them is happy to fit into his own car !!

Criteria was simply. A new stereo with iPod control, Steering Controls, Bluetooth and some very respectable sounds.

As the missus never plays Cd`s anymore, due to the iPod, there was no point in going for a CD player, so I opted for a mechless unit instead, and this is what I ended up with

Clarion FZ709E with Bluetooth  £229.99

http://www.dndservices.co.uk/fz709e.html


Front Speakers Clarion SRP1721S   £89.99

http://www.dndservices.co.uk/product.php?productid=5466&cat=12&page=1

Rear Speakers Clarion SRX1385  £59.99

http://www.dndservices.co.uk/srx1385.html

Add in a set of speaker rings and a steering control interface, and its came in at around the £400 mark I was targeting for.

As far as the sound quality - I am gobsmacked   :o

Not that long ago, you would have had to spend five times this amount, and to also have amps and subs. The sound quality and depth of Bass is simply stunning. Like all good quality speakers, the top end can be a little harsh to start with , but will mellow down after a few hours of running them in. I`m not going to bother with a sub on this car, and to be honest, its unlikely that I would replace this setup, as I think it will now make an excellent demonstrator as to what can be achieved for relatively little money.

 8-)
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: tunnie on 25 June 2010, 12:11:53
£400? You can buy a whole Omega for that  ;D
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Dave DND on 25 June 2010, 12:14:42
Quote
£400? You can buy a whole Omega for that  ;D

And you know full well what I think an Omega is worth !!

 :-X

But with a sound system like mine, it would then be worth £400.50p

 :P
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Hannah Judes Dad on 25 June 2010, 23:06:43
Quote
Quote
£400? You can buy a whole Omega for that  ;D

And you know full well what I think an Omega is worth !!

 :-X

But with a sound system like mine, it would then be worth £400.50p

 :P

Where did you get the extra 49p from ?  ;D
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: omegadan67 on 27 June 2010, 07:27:05
Quote
Quote
What are these Kevin and where would they run from/to ::)

Told you I was useless at this stuff ;D

From the head unit to the amp.

Coax cable for the audio signals and a single switching wire to tell the amp to power up when the head unit does.

Probably easiest to buy a kit... I notice Dave sells them. http://www.dndservices.co.uk/px006.html

Not, however, that you might need a longer power cable. 5m is not quite enough to do an Omega, IME. Might just about reach the parcel shelf, I suppose.

Kevin


COAX Cable is not used for audio feeds, Coax is for aerials.

pete if you are removing the interior the run the power cable and switch cable down the passenger side and the phono cables down the middle of the car thats the way i did mine, also uesd 2x6inch phillips subs in parcel shelf very nice sound 
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 27 June 2010, 16:08:51
Quote
Quote
Quote
What are these Kevin and where would they run from/to ::)

Told you I was useless at this stuff ;D

From the head unit to the amp.

Coax cable for the audio signals and a single switching wire to tell the amp to power up when the head unit does.

Probably easiest to buy a kit... I notice Dave sells them. http://www.dndservices.co.uk/px006.html

Not, however, that you might need a longer power cable. 5m is not quite enough to do an Omega, IME. Might just about reach the parcel shelf, I suppose.

Kevin


COAX Cable is not used for audio feeds, Coax is for aerials.

pete if you are removing the interior the run the power cable and switch cable down the passenger side and the phono cables down the middle of the car thats the way i did mine, also uesd 2x6inch phillips subs in parcel shelf very nice sound 

Go on then, expand on what you have said please ........

Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Kevin Wood on 27 June 2010, 16:59:16
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
What are these Kevin and where would they run from/to ::)

Told you I was useless at this stuff ;D

From the head unit to the amp.

Coax cable for the audio signals and a single switching wire to tell the amp to power up when the head unit does.

Probably easiest to buy a kit... I notice Dave sells them. http://www.dndservices.co.uk/px006.html

Not, however, that you might need a longer power cable. 5m is not quite enough to do an Omega, IME. Might just about reach the parcel shelf, I suppose.

Kevin


COAX Cable is not used for audio feeds, Coax is for aerials.

pete if you are removing the interior the run the power cable and switch cable down the passenger side and the phono cables down the middle of the car thats the way i did mine, also uesd 2x6inch phillips subs in parcel shelf very nice sound 

Go on then, expand on what you have said please ........


Yes, be interesting. ;)

Kevin
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Dave DND on 27 June 2010, 17:31:17
Quote
COAX Cable is not used for audio feeds, Coax is for aerials

I thought that a Co-Axial cable was just a reference given to the type of cable that has a centre core surrounded by a braided outer sheath.

Indeed just like aerial cable . . . . .

. . . . . And also just like RCA cable  !!!     ::)

Whats the problem ?   :P
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Andy H on 27 June 2010, 20:12:11
Quote
COAX Cable is not used for audio feeds, Coax is for aerials

Wikipedia Co-Ax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable)
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Dave DND on 28 June 2010, 09:18:22
Quote
Quote
COAX Cable is not used for audio feeds, Coax is for aerials

Wikipedia Co-Ax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable)


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

you must be the only one who reads and believes Wikipedia

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: zirk on 28 June 2010, 11:30:20
Quote
COAX Cable is not used for audio feeds, Coax is for aerials.

The main difference between screened and coax cable is the way the outer braid is either wrapped or woven, or in some cases solid braided, the latter two giving better line / transmission loss.

You could in fact use any cable, with mixed results, as long as you knew the impedance (dialectic spacing) and the cables velocity factor (wave propagation speed).

Coax Audio or Coax Digital Audio are just the name given to them because of the way the outer screen is woven.

Chris.
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Kevin Wood on 28 June 2010, 12:43:35
The word Coaxial means "Having or mounted on a common axis."

When applied to the conductors of a cable it means only that. Coaxial cable is available in many different types, some suitable for audio, some suitable for video, some suitable for RF, some suitable for neither.

The electricity supply to my house comes in on a coaxial cable. Live on the centre conductor, neutral on the armoured outer. I wouldn't like to try connecting an aerial with it. ;)

Kevin
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: omegadan67 on 01 July 2010, 22:39:14
Quote
The word Coaxial means "Having or mounted on a common axis."

When applied to the conductors of a cable it means only that. Coaxial cable is available in many different types, some suitable for audio, some suitable for video, some suitable for RF, some suitable for neither.

The electricity supply to my house comes in on a coaxial cable. Live on the centre conductor, neutral on the armoured outer. I wouldn't like to try connecting an aerial with it. ;)

Kevin

I think you may have that wrong Kevin the supply to you house if not via overhead lines as in the countryside will be line conducter in the middle mineral sheath insulation with the outer conductor being both neutral and earth . as this is what is termed a T-N-C-S system
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Kevin Wood on 01 July 2010, 23:19:22
Quote
Quote
The word Coaxial means "Having or mounted on a common axis."

When applied to the conductors of a cable it means only that. Coaxial cable is available in many different types, some suitable for audio, some suitable for video, some suitable for RF, some suitable for neither.

The electricity supply to my house comes in on a coaxial cable. Live on the centre conductor, neutral on the armoured outer. I wouldn't like to try connecting an aerial with it. ;)

Kevin

I think you may have that wrong Kevin the supply to you house if not via overhead lines as in the countryside will be line conducter in the middle mineral sheath insulation with the outer conductor being both neutral and earth . as this is what is termed a T-N-C-S system

Correct. :y Neutral and earth are combined in such a system. It's still a coaxial cable though. ;)

Kevin
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: omegadan67 on 02 July 2010, 11:46:56
Quote
Quote
Quote
The word Coaxial means "Having or mounted on a common axis."

When applied to the conductors of a cable it means only that. Coaxial cable is available in many different types, some suitable for audio, some suitable for video, some suitable for RF, some suitable for neither.

The electricity supply to my house comes in on a coaxial cable. Live on the centre conductor, neutral on the armoured outer. I wouldn't like to try connecting an aerial with it. ;)

Kevin

I think you may have that wrong Kevin the supply to you house if not via overhead lines as in the countryside will be line conducter in the middle mineral sheath insulation with the outer conductor being both neutral and earth . as this is what is termed a T-N-C-S system

Correct. :y Neutral and earth are combined in such a system. It's still a coaxial cable though. ;)

Kevin

i now understand what you are getting at, and i will accecpt that coaxial cable is 2 conductors running on a common axis however if you where to walk in to a electrical wholesellers and asked for coax cable you would be given airael cable not power cable
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 03 July 2010, 00:20:17
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
The word Coaxial means "Having or mounted on a common axis."

When applied to the conductors of a cable it means only that. Coaxial cable is available in many different types, some suitable for audio, some suitable for video, some suitable for RF, some suitable for neither.

The electricity supply to my house comes in on a coaxial cable. Live on the centre conductor, neutral on the armoured outer. I wouldn't like to try connecting an aerial with it. ;)

Kevin

I think you may have that wrong Kevin the supply to you house if not via overhead lines as in the countryside will be line conducter in the middle mineral sheath insulation with the outer conductor being both neutral and earth . as this is what is termed a T-N-C-S system

Correct. :y Neutral and earth are combined in such a system. It's still a coaxial cable though. ;)

Kevin

i now understand what you are getting at, and i will accecpt that coaxial cable is 2 conductors running on a common axis however if you where to walk in to a electrical wholesellers and asked for coax cable you would be given airael cable not power cable

The Institute of Electrical Engineers would have a fit if you described the main feed to your house as co-ax!
The dictionary definition of co-ax may well be as posted earlier, however definitions of words vary according to use & trade.
Don't get me started on flex, we'll be here all night  :D
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Dave DND on 03 July 2010, 09:40:28
Quote
Don't get me started on flex, we'll be here all night 

Yep, I`m game . . . .

After all, I opened such a tin of worms after the last one . .

 ;D   :P
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 03 July 2010, 23:23:53
definitions of words vary according to use & trade.....

(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp239/morally-compromised/oof/pt.jpg)
(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp239/morally-compromised/oof/sb.jpg)



oh hang on....

You wouldn't eat both?

oh, hang on...... :-/




I'll get my coat
Title: Re: Sub woofer help
Post by: Dave DND on 04 July 2010, 09:02:27
Quote
definitions of words vary according to use & trade.....

(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp239/morally-compromised/oof/pt.jpg)
(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp239/morally-compromised/oof/sb.jpg)



oh hang on....

You wouldn't eat both?

oh, hang on...... :-/


I'll get my coat

Mmm . . .  You are right
I wouldn`t eat those strawberry ones . . . .

 :P

 ;D ;D ;D