Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: Entwood on 20 July 2010, 11:32:28
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Thanks to andyc I now have the correct reversing sensors fitted .. and all 4 "vibrate" / tick when touched lightly.... but the system still just goes to a continuous tone a couple of seconds after selecting reverse..
I've checked the harness visually.. no sign of damage ... so the next bit I guess is the control box ...
Bosch 0 263 004 011
T'internet search reveals little, all pages found are old .. but looks like it might be a tad expensive to replace without confirming it's faulty :(
I'll stick a "wanted" in the relevant place .. but anyone know anything about these sysetms ?? There must be a some way of diagnosing them other than "buy and replace" surely .. :(
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Thats annoying, just to be clear they all tick and give constant tone?
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Thats annoying, just to be clear they all tick and give constant tone?
Yup.... all tick/vibrate when lightly touched, on selecting reverse the light "beep" it always did to tell you its working, followed by a constant tone about 3 seconds later. :(
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Hmmm, could do with swapping units first, Newent perhaps?
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I think it's the URF-4 or 5 installed on the Omega and it's not available by Bosch anymore... I had the same problem and impossible to find this model! Bosch proposes to me the new one, URF-7, but the sensors are smaller so I have a problem with the holes drilled on the bumper... No way to find another bumper without holes, it's an Irmscher one!! :P
But if I find a way to "re-make" the holes properly, I will buy the Meta-system sensors. They looks very nice, with "an internal fitting", like the new BMW's parkpilot. ;)
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Sounds stupid, as they all "tick", but unplug the two middle sensors and try again. If that doesn't change the situation, unplug the two outside ones, replacing the two other plugs first!!
This wil do two things.....firstly it will make sure the two ultrasonic sensors are not cross inducing themselves, (meaning faulty) and that the control box is not faulty on one channel only, because the bosch unit is a two channel device, and if one channel is u/s, it will show a "close up" signal, and it will also tell you which channel is ok, giving you some useability. (albeit on set of sensors, and you can then obtain another unit safe in the knowledge it is kaput.)
Unfortunately, to my knowledge the only people that repair them is Bosch UK in slough, but the cost is bound to be prohibitive, and if you can get a s/h one once you are sure it is buggered.............
Hope this helps you, mate.
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Hmmm, could do with swapping units first, Newent perhaps?
That was my idea as well .. if anyone there has the system and is willing to try .. :)
Sounds stupid, as they all "tick", but unplug the two middle sensors and try again. If that doesn't change the situation, unplug the two outside ones, replacing the two other plugs first!!
This wil do two things.....firstly it will make sure the two ultrasonic sensors are not cross inducing themselves, (meaning faulty) and that the control box is not faulty on one channel only, because the bosch unit is a two channel device, and if one channel is u/s, it will show a "close up" signal, and it will also tell you which channel is ok, giving you some useability. (albeit on set of sensors, and you can then obtain another unit safe in the knowledge it is kaput.)
Unfortunately, to my knowledge the only people that repair them is Bosch UK in slough, but the cost is bound to be prohibitive, and if you can get a s/h one once you are sure it is buggered.............
Hope this helps you, mate.
mmm conflicting advice... :(
In another thread I was told that any sensor being faulty/unplugged would give the tone, there is no "split system" all four sensors must be connected..... however I might well take the bumper off again and try various combinations to see if your idea works ... nowt to lose really .. :)
Thanks for the ideas .. keep em coming !! :)
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I don't know if this helps but my mig has a two sensor set up on the rear bumper(not oem I think) and it works fine until I clip on the detachable hitch then it goes constant tone
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My system URF-5b, dunno about the newer ones.
Works like that on mine. Found another control box on a scrap vectra for £30, so are available.
Mike.
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My system URF-5b, dunno about the newer ones.
Works like that on mine. Found another control box on a scrap vectra for £30, so are available.
Mike.
Well.. if you happen to be near a scrappies and find a control box 0 263 004 011 ... at a sensible price, I'd be happy to pay for it and your time !! No decent scrappies around here. :(
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According to the wiring diagram, the park pilot sensors have two common wires, and an individual wire from each sensor back to the ECU.
Guessing the "transmit" side of the sensor is commoned, and a separate receive for each sensor.
Kevin
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Hmmm, could do with swapping units first, Newent perhaps?
That was my idea as well .. if anyone there has the system and is willing to try .. :)
Sounds stupid, as they all "tick", but unplug the two middle sensors and try again. If that doesn't change the situation, unplug the two outside ones, replacing the two other plugs first!!
This wil do two things.....firstly it will make sure the two ultrasonic sensors are not cross inducing themselves, (meaning faulty) and that the control box is not faulty on one channel only, because the bosch unit is a two channel device, and if one channel is u/s, it will show a "close up" signal, and it will also tell you which channel is ok, giving you some useability. (albeit on set of sensors, and you can then obtain another unit safe in the knowledge it is kaput.)
Unfortunately, to my knowledge the only people that repair them is Bosch UK in slough, but the cost is bound to be prohibitive, and if you can get a s/h one once you are sure it is buggered.............
Hope this helps you, mate.
mmm conflicting advice... :(
In another thread I was told that any sensor being faulty/unplugged would give the tone, there is no "split system" all four sensors must be connected..... however I might well take the bumper off again and try various combinations to see if your idea works ... nowt to lose really .. :)
Thanks for the ideas .. keep em coming !! :)
Assumed we had the same system tbh. Have you since discovered yours is non standard system, or some oddity? Different sensors as I recall?
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Factory fitted by VX, along with the Irmscher kit. Makes it a "Special Order Vehicle" .. :(
According to the EPC (and andyc) the only differences are the actual sensors, and the loom for the sensors. My sensors are 3 wire, the "other" ones appear to be 4 wire... well the thing has 4 pins and a different fitting !!... :(
The control box is common to both.
Off to remove the bumper and try different combinations of pairs .. :)
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Well it may well be worth a try, swapped two on one side around on mine and away it went, but the inside one was def not ticking so presumed a bad conection?
Anyway, good luck with it.
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Right .. been playing .. getting quite good at getting the rear bumper off and on now !!
Doesn't matter what sequence or combination of sensors fitted, the continuous tone does not vary, single, pairs whatever, even tried only old, only new, all variations .. no difference... :(
What I did find was a purple blade fuse.. that isn't a fuse .. its a 430 Ohm resistor .. If I remove THAT and try the system .. the tones are different. I don't get the light "self test" tone at all .. I then get
1 long, 2 short, 3 short tones .. that keep repeating. It matters not what combination of sensors are fitted, its always the same.
If, big if, removing that resistor puts the system into some sort of "test" mode ... it looks like the control box "thinks" I have a problem with the either the inboard pair (2,3) or it does not "see" the outboard pair (1,4) even though they all vibrate/tick.
I guess unless some kind soul finds a control box, cheap, its wait until Newent and try and bribe someone into a control box swap as a test .. :)
System back together now, with one exception ... speaker is unplugged !!!!
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That resistor is a "coding resistor" according to the wiring diag. Could well put it into a test mode, or could be used to config. the system for other models - for example, one that only uses 2 of the sensors. :-/
I wonder if there's any diagnostic info in TIS?
Kevin
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Hi Nige
how does £29.40 + VAT & postage sound, They normaly go out at £90.00 trade
Got one on the shelf that i'd like to get rid of
You know my number :y
Andy
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That resistor is a "coding resistor" according to the wiring diag. Could well put it into a test mode, or could be used to config. the system for other models - for example, one that only uses 2 of the sensors. :-/
I wonder if there's any diagnostic info in TIS?
Kevin
Genius .. :)
Service information 00029326
Trying to make sense of it, but the described "responses" don't fit my actions ... :(
Whatever I do to it .. the tones always indicate a sensor 2 & 3 error. So either the loom is FUBAR or the control unit itself.
Looks more like, hopefully, a swap with someone at Newent to check the control unit.
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Hi Nige
how does £29.40 + VAT & postage sound, They normaly go out at £90.00 trade
Got one on the shelf that i'd like to get rid of
You know my number :y
Andy
At that price I'll take a chance .. :) On the phone in 2 minutes !!
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Right .. ordered from andyc ... if it don't work .. there'll be a couple of control units and some sensors for sale ... :(
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Right .. ordered from andyc ... if it don't work ........ :(
get the holes in the bumper filled & painted and just use your mirrors! ;) ;) ;) :y
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Right .. ordered from andyc ... if it don't work ........ :(
get the holes in the bumper filled & painted and just use your mirrors! ;) ;) ;) :y
Mr Vauxhall decreed that my motor should have such a system, so I will do what I can to ensure it works. However, should the next step fail, I will consider your advice.... :)
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Right .. ordered from andyc ... if it don't work ........ :(
get the holes in the bumper filled & painted and just use your mirrors! ;) ;) ;) :y
Mr Vauxhall decreed that my motor should have such a system, so I will do what I can to ensure it works. However, should the next step fail, I will consider your advice.... :)
;) ;) ;) :y
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Doing my head in now .. :(
New control box from AndyC arrived this morning, 2 minute job to change it ... so I do ...
Now get a different error from each box !! New one indicates a fault on sensor #1, old one a fault on sensors #2 & #3 !! but all 4 sensors "tick" ....
I'm hoping that the new one is correct, and that one of the 2 sensors I replaced is actually OK and will work when installed.
Don't have time to drop the bumper (again) today .. so it will have to wait ... maybe until after France ..
Why can't things be simple .... :)
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Doing my head in now .. :(
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Why can't things be simple .... :)
Bugger! :( :(
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Well, you can be sure that something was wrong with the box, then. Can you move the "faulty" sensor to a different location and see if the fault moves with it?
Kevin
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Well, you can be sure that something was wrong with the box, then. Can you move the "faulty" sensor to a different location and see if the fault moves with it?
Kevin
Thats part of the plan, plus swapping with the 2 that didn't "tick" in case it was the box and not the sensor .... :(
Probably tomorrow before I get the chance to drop the bumper now.. :(
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I posted on the same issue a few months ago - sensors and control unit all fine - so problem is in looms but have still not got around to doing anything about it and have now got used to reversing without assistance.
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ime its a case of bumper off and on several times before getting to the bottom of it, the sensors would behave for a day or so, then constant tone, bumper off and so on, pita. Went on for weeks.
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hold up, how do you know the specific error if they all tick?
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hold up, how do you know the specific error if they all tick?
Kevin gave me the pointer ... Looked it up on TIS .. :)
Basically .. if you remove the 430 Ohm resistor .. the one that looks like a fuse but isn't.. BEFORE switching the ignition on and selecting reverse, the system enters a sort of self diagnostic mode ..
all listed under : Service information 00029326
Don't know if this will work .. trying a screen grab from the VM ... never done this before .. :)
can only get a small portion of the article in the grab .. :(
(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6721/snapy.jpg)
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Good find. :y Could do with being in a HOWTO, methinks. ::)
Kevin
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Good find. :y Could do with being in a HOWTO, methinks. ::)
Kevin
If you think it would be usefull as a "howto" I'll do my best ....
If we are allowed to lift from TIS I'll do the whole article as a series of screengrabs, otherwise I'll have to re-write it if copyright is an issue ???
:)
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Ooh well done Nigel, dead handy that......but two different boxes giving different error codes you say?....and regardless of which box they all tick.......is the loom made in
ireland Italy? :-/
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Ooh well done Nigel, dead handy that......but two different boxes giving different error codes you say?....and regardless of which box they all tick.......is the loom made in ireland Italy? :-/
I'm guessing, and hoping, that my original box, that gives 2 & 3 as faulty regardless of whatever I do with the sensors .. gives the same "fault" with no sensors in at all !!! .. is FUBAR, and that the new box from AndyC is telling the truth.
The sensor it says is faulty is in fact the one that was hit by the prat that reversed into me, so could well be faulty. The reason I purchased the other two, and replaced them, was the "not ticking" thing. I now hoping that they are actually OK and at least one of them will work !!
Plan is to drop the bumper tomorrow if its A) dry .. and B) I get the time given the list of other things to do before we go to France on Tuesday !! If not it will have to wait a couple of weeks ... unless I take the tools and do it in France ... :)
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.... unless I take the tools and do it in France ... :)
It'll be something to instead of being bored on the beach/lying in the sun.
I always take some tools with me ..... just in case! :y :y
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I really have had enough of this now !!!!
As said last night, on fitting the new control box error on sensor 1 was given.
Dropped the bumper this morning to check it out.. and with the new box... errors on sensors 1 & 2 !!! ... with the old box 1 & 4, regardless of which sensors are in which plug.
As socket 3 never seems to give a problem I checked every sensor ... 4 old, 2 new in that socket .. results are consistent with the "non-ticking" test .. 2 old sensors fail, 2 old and both new "pass".. so I appear to have 4 good sensors.
So I think .. wiring loom. Check out every wire for continuity, all OK. check out every plug for cross feeding .. all OK. Unwrap as much of the loom as I can .. no signs of damage..... results are always consistent .. 1 & 4 with old box, 1 & 2 with new box ..
Having spent 3 hours faffing I give up and put it all back together with the new box installed. Don't know why I did a final check .. error is now just on #2 !!!
I'm guessing that the loom has damage I can't see and that as the loom "moves" when putting the bumper on/off it is changing the internal resistances of the wires in some subtle manner ... just enough to upset the control box...
It's all back together with the speaker unplugged.. and will stay that way until I decide what to do next .. and that won't be until after our french holiday !!
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
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Ffs, thought mine was a pita. Does your rear irmscher have the polystyrene insert, of any form, as the standard one does? Asking because it helps locate the wires and stop them flapping. Wondering if they where flapping in the breaze all the time since the bumper was fitted.
I could not get the polystyrene insert in on mine as there is no room for it, but the front needed it to hold the bumper at the correct hight so had to cut the front edge of the polystyrene off and fit the top edge only. So now wonder if the rear bumper needs a partial fitment of polystyrene as well?
Basicly I'm asking if the wires where secured properly after the irmscher bumper was fitted? Would think so if factory fit.
Also wondering if the plug to box is clean and dry or giving good contact....? :-/
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Lump of polystyrene present and fits correctly.
As the troubles all started about two months after I had the back bumper removed and repaired due to a prat reversing into me (end of last september) ... he paid so no insurance claim .. I'm guessing that the bodyshop may have pulled/damaged the loom somehow ?? Its easy to get the loom caught on the towbar as you lift the bumper off if you are not careful.
The initial problems were that the error only occured after the car had been standing overnight in rain. Once driven for 15 minutes, or left dry .. the system worked fine. Over a period of 6 months it got steadily worse, to the point that in May I unplugged the speaker and lived without the noise .. !!
Given the oddities its showing, with different faults everytime the bumper is put on/taken off/put back on it can only be the loom I reckon .. possibly streched/internal breakage or even some internal corrosion ?? I've examined it as much as I can .. and "wiggled" every accessible inch, but it seems to make no difference .. until you out the bumper on or take it off again ... :(
My sentiments at the moment would test the profanity filter to the extreme.... darned thing can stay as it is until after the holiday.
My thoughts are to later try bypassing the existing loom wires directly back to the box and see what occurs .. if I just do the "return" wires it's only 4 to do ...
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Well the DTi Elite i've just picked up today has a parkpilot fault as well so i'll be swapping bits off the 3.2 Elite in an attempt to work out what's wrong.
If you want to sell one of the control boxes when you fix the problem I would be interested! :y
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Well the DTi Elite i've just picked up today has a parkpilot fault as well so i'll be swapping bits off the 3.2 Elite in an attempt to work out what's wrong.
If you want to sell one of the control boxes when you fix the problem I would be interested! :y
Did you read the bit above about self-diagnosis system ?? might help ??
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Yes thanks, i'd read it on TIS beforehand so will have to do some diagnosis at some point. Got some other catch up jobs to do on it first though!
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Have fun ... if it ends up that both these control boxes are actually OK ... don't see it myself as they give different faults all the time ... then one will be for sale .. but not for a month I expect .. far too much "enjoying myself" to take place before I tackle this job again !!!
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Yes, don't worry for the moment, just going to do an oil change tomorrow and have a good look round my new purchase and see whats what for the next couple of weeks.
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Any progress on this? - on diagnostic test with 430 ohm resistor removed I get a 3 sec signal followed by pause then 3 one sec beeps each followed by short pause.
Suggests sensor 3 but was tested a while ago with 4 new sensors and still gave fault.
Just to be clear - with 430 ohm resistor back in place I just get continuous tone when in reverse.
Interestingly my headlight range warning light came on when resistor removed (this has been another unexplained electrical fault over last 4 years or more) and appears only now and then - headlight motors working fine - tested by KW a while ago.
As Entwood said previously loom is suspected but nothing obvious. Near to 430 ohm resistor there is a contact spade - what is that please?
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Think Entwood was going to have a look at it at Newent, but rain may have stopped play this (sun)morning....?
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Yup .. rain certainly stopped play today !!! As did some serious tracking adjustment to make the car safe to drive !! So no closer to solving my problem :)
The 3 x 1 sec bleeps say the ECU is not getting the correct signal from the #3 sensor as you state. Does the #3 sensor vibrate if touched VERY lightly with a finger ?? If it does then try swapping it to another position and see if the fault moves with it !! If it does .. sensor problem .. if it doesn't, possibly wiring fault ???
Beside the red 430 Ohm resistor should be a male/female spade pair, one black wire, one black/white wire. If these are connected the system is in "quiet" mode, if apart, "loud" mode.
HTH :)
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the 430 ohm resistor is blue - is the correct Bosch resistor supposed to have a particular colour?
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the 430 ohm resistor is blue - is the correct Bosch resistor supposed to have a particular colour?
No idea to be honest .. the two I have are both red .. :-/ :-/
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The initial problems were that the error only occured after the car had been standing overnight in rain. Once driven for 15 minutes, or left dry .. the system worked fine.
I have factory fit front and rear park pilot, when it rains i get the single long tone from the rear.
I did 'wipe' the sensors one day and without knowing slightly moved one of the sensors, kept getting a long tone in reverse. Took bumper off clipped it back in and all good.
Just maybe a bit of a long shot but perhaps they are not sitting right hence the issues and moving the fault up and down the line?
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The initial problems were that the error only occured after the car had been standing overnight in rain. Once driven for 15 minutes, or left dry .. the system worked fine.
I have factory fit front and rear park pilot, when it rains i get the single long tone from the rear.
I did 'wipe' the sensors one day and without knowing slightly moved one of the sensors, kept getting a long tone in reverse. Took bumper off clipped it back in and all good.
Just maybe a bit of a long shot but perhaps they are not sitting right hence the issues and moving the fault up and down the line?
Nice thought and thanks .. but I've tried with all the sensors out of the bumper, inserted into boxes with holes cut to ensure that NOTHING is within the sensor range, and still the fault moves around ... :(
Next plan is to "rewire" the loom temporarily - basically bypasing existing wiring and see what occurs.. but that won't be done this week due to other committments .. :(
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Look forward to feedback - will take bumper off when I can but likely to be travelling next 3 weekends so will now be October before I have time I suspect.
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Any luck with parkpilot so far?
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Unfortunately due to a combination of family circumstances/weather and a few other things ... no work has been done on this at all. It is pretty low priority TBH, and certainly won't be touched until next year now.
:(
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Resurrecting a pretty old thread ....
Thanks to Albs who has provided a new control box and loom things are making slow but significant progress.
Still have a problem .. but it is now isolated to one sensor, if I move the sensor around all wires work but that one sensor does not .. no matter where placed.
I've even put the old loom/control back in...'cos I could ... and the fault again becomes random, indicating a fault with the loom and the control box.
On removing the faulty sensor .. I found it like this .. on the side I could not see !!
(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/402/imag0029k.jpg)
(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1817/imag0031yd.jpg)
Now that is a CUT not a crack, initially, although it has spread to a crack around the back. How or what has done that I've no idea.
As the problem started 3 months after the car went in to have the accident damage repaired, I'm wondering if they tried to cut the sensor out to do the respray. I also think they have "stretched" the loom and damaged it. Perhaps water has got into that sensor and shorted it, so causing damage to the control box ???
However .. advert going in the wanted area for a sensor .. once I get one we'll see what happens next .. :)
:)
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So, it has almost sorted your problem Nige ?
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So, it has almost sorted your problem Nige ?
It's made a big difference !!! Fault is no longer random .. but I do have one sensor proved faulty.. so looking for a replacement. :) Won't ask you to split your set off the bumper .. might make selling the bumper a tad harder .. :)
I'll probably PM AndyC and see how much a new one is as well ..
Thanks for your efforts and help .. appreciated... :y :y :y
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Happy to help (to an extent) Nige. :y
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Goidelic news :y
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In the absence of getting a used sensor .. purchased one from AndyC - excellent service yet again .. ordered Thursday it arrived this moring !! - many thanks to him.
Just finished putting the bumper back on .. again ... and am pleased to report that the system, apparently, now works as it was designed ..... at last !!
So since the numpties who did the accident damage repair did their best (although it didn't fail until 3 months after their ministrations) and apparently used an angle grinder to remove the sensors .... :( it has only taken
3 x Sensors
2 x Sensor Holders
1 x Control Box
1 x Replacement Loom
to get it back to as it should be.
A mate who just loves playing with electronic things has had a play with the sensor with the cut in it, the old loom, and the control box .... he says the sensor was very wet inside and the control box chips don't make any sense when tested (whatever that means !!). He thinks that the water inside the sensor has caused the chips to fail over the long term. There is also a "discrepancy" in the resistance of the different legs in the old loom.
He also thinks I could have saved both the other sensors and the control box if I had unplugged the whole system .... all I had unplugged was the speaker ... so electrickery has been getting to the wrong bits for some considerable time .... like about 17 months !!! since it was first damaged !!!
Anyway ..'tis now sorted thanks to AndyC, Albs, and the advice recieved from various folks on OOF ..... Thanks to all of you :y :y :y
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Glad your sorted now Nige. :y
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.....
Anyway ..'tis now sorted .......
Well done. Your determination has paid off. :y :y
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Goidelic news :y
Aye ^ :-/ ;D
Anyway, good news Nige..... satisfying? Eventually?
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Why do you need reversing sensors, every time I see your car there is a bloody great hotdog shop behind it :-/
Next time I see you car, there will be a burning hotdog shop behind it :P
Well done on getting it sorted. I hate things not working properly.
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Goidelic news :y
Aye ^ :-/ ;D
Anyway, good news Nige..... satisfying? Eventually?
I wouldn't say "satisfying" ... but a sense of achievement .. yes... :)
Why do you need reversing sensors, every time I see your car there is a bloody great hotdog shop behind it :-/
Next time I see you car, there will be a burning hotdog shop behind it :P
Well done on getting it sorted. I hate things not working properly.
Snap .... the main reason for sorting it TBH .. if it's there .. it should work properly ... :)
As for the "hotdog van" .. changed your tune a tad :) ... a) used to be a "burger van" ... b) you certainly enjoyed the tea and biscuits when sat in it .. :) ( and we have the photographic evidence .. :) )
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Well done!
This reminds me... must fix the parkpilot on the DTi, no excuse now the sun is out apart from needing to buy some parts.
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Goidelic news :y
Aye ^ :-/ ;D
Anyway, good news Nige..... satisfying? Eventually?
I wouldn't say "satisfying" ... but a sense of achievement .. yes... :)
Why do you need reversing sensors, every time I see your car there is a bloody great hotdog shop behind it :-/
Next time I see you car, there will be a burning hotdog shop behind it :P
Well done on getting it sorted. I hate things not working properly.
Snap .... the main reason for sorting it TBH .. if it's there .. it should work properly ... :)
As for the "hotdog van" .. changed your tune a tad :) ... a) used to be a "burger van" ... b) you certainly enjoyed the tea and biscuits when sat in it .. :) ( and we have the photographic evidence .. :) )
Aha! I think we should see this evidence E. Consider it your duty. :y
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Goidelic news :y
Aye ^ :-/ ;D
Anyway, good news Nige..... satisfying? Eventually?
I wouldn't say "satisfying" ... but a sense of achievement .. yes... :)
Why do you need reversing sensors, every time I see your car there is a bloody great hotdog shop behind it :-/
Next time I see you car, there will be a burning hotdog shop behind it :P
Well done on getting it sorted. I hate things not working properly.
Snap .... the main reason for sorting it TBH .. if it's there .. it should work properly ... :)
As for the "hotdog van" .. changed your tune a tad :) ... a) used to be a "burger van" ... b) you certainly enjoyed the tea and biscuits when sat in it .. :) ( and we have the photographic evidence .. :) )
Aha! I think we should see this evidence E. Consider it your duty. :y
Already on the forum ..... you might just need to look for "The Lakes" 2 years ago ... if memory serves ... :)