Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Terbs on 18 October 2011, 23:04:01
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I expect nothing will come of it, but I think MP's are getting jittery ;D ;D ;D ;D
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/277908/Victory-in-bid-for-EU-vote
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Hmm. The public might be getting disillusioned with Brussels, but I think MPs know that's where their bread's buttered, sadly. >:(
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Hell will freeze over before there is a referendum on Britains membership of the EU! >:(
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I could have sworn that I posted in this thread about an hour ago. ??? :-\
Well, Im not typing it again.Cant be arsed. ::) ;D
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Turkeys don't vote for Christmas and when MPs lose their seat or want to increase their income, or a lucrative retirement. Then it is I ho, I ho, its off to Brussels we go, as the EU gravy train and trough make our MP's look positively impoverished. ::) >:( >:(
I'm sure in the unlikely event we were granted a referendum the Liberal Democraps would insist in writing the question for their continued support of the ConDem alliance and it would be along the lines of:
Do you think the UK should leave the EU - Tick the No box
or
Do you think the UK should stay in the EU - Tick the Yes box
:o :o :D :D
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What those esteemed representatives should be getting jittery about Terb are the increasingly put-upon peoples of this nation who are being dealt a disservice by that group of self serving oppss - oppss who are draining the life blood from this nation and her peoples by virtue of incompetence, avarice and skewed morals.
A referendum, should it ever be placed before the nation, will amount to nothing because there’s few within Westminster capable of delivering cohesive, coherent or coordinated government without direction from ‘Brussels’, the crutch of ‘coalition partners’, partisan lobbyists sporting a particular agenda or a quiescent and similarly inclined opposition.
Whatever happened to professional clear sightedness, strong principles and the desire to serve the people who put them there in the first place?
As said in a previous post, these turkeys will certainly not be voting for Christmas – or whatever term should be used to satisfy the increasingly sensitive souls of this country - lest some crackpot be offended at an overtly Christian reference.
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Rumour has it that Cameron (never has been a Conservative and never will be) is going to resort to a 3 line whip to make sure Tory MP,s toe his line and dont allow this to get off the ground. Democracy - doesnt understand the meaning of the word. >:( >:( >:(
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2051014/Tory-Party-facing-split-Europe-50-backbenchers-set-defy-whip-vote-referendum.html
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Rumour has it that Cameron (never has been a Conservative and never will be) is going to resort to a 3 line whip to make sure Tory MP,s toe his line and dont allow this to get off the ground. Democracy - doesnt understand the meaning of the word. >:( >:( >:(
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2051014/Tory-Party-facing-split-Europe-50-backbenchers-set-defy-whip-vote-referendum.html
It's a redundant exercise my son - gives the impression that someone in government actually gives a opps when, in fact, that don't - which we all know anyway.
It amounts to being merely smoke and mirrors (and a great dollop of cynicism) to help keep the droogs at bay and in the mistaken belief that there may be a chance that this issue will stand any chance of producing a result that will treat the cancer that is the EU.
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Completely agree,wise uncle. :y
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Just seen this on 'The Peoples Pledge' on facebook......Go for it :y :y :y :y
'As we broke news to you yesterday, the Daily Express and other papers have now picked up on mounting speculation that Downing Street's last-minute decision to change the referendum vote date from Thursday to Monday was triggered by our planned mass lobby of Parliament, booked in for the same day as the debate. We will NOT be deterred however, and need your support to come down to Westminster this coming Monday for this HISTORIC opportunity. Email chris@peoplespledge.org to help us make this the single most important day of action!'
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Cameron has got this badly wrong IMO...... What the country wants and needs is an honest debate about our membership of the EU! ??? Any vote in tomorrows debate is non-binding, so Cameron (and Milliband) should relax and allow a free vote! 8) By implementing a three line whip they are stifling the debate and MP's will be considering their own position, rather than those that they were elected to serve!! ::) So no change there then.... >:( >:( >:(
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I actually have to (in the best interests of my business) spend time with the EU and it is the most bureaucratic self serving shambles you could wish on your worst enemy if he had to pay for it. Hotels in Brussels are booked up at 250 euros plus a night, travel on full fares, meeting after meeting with thousands of hangers on NGOs - the whole lot do not and try not to understand business.
In principle the idea was good for common market but the reality is it should not have been invented in this form as it is now overrun by the most despicable useless human beings you can come across and the waste and duplication is an offence against humanity where the funds they consume could be used for genuine public good.
I have been going each week for past 4 weeks or so and it is not a lot of fun.
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Cameron has got this badly wrong IMO...... What the country wants and needs is an honest debate about our membership of the EU! ??? Any vote in tomorrows debate is non-binding, so Cameron (and Milliband) should relax and allow a free vote! 8) By implementing a three line whip they are stifling the debate and MP's will be considering their own position, rather than those that they were elected to serve!! ::) So no change there then.... >:( >:( >:(
Quite right, Tigger, he has got this VERY wrong and I reckon it will be a watershed, both in terms of his premiership and popularity of the coalition. There again, Millitwit won't do well out of it either. the biggest winner will be UKIP. ( :y :y)
One thing that really gets my goat, though, is the inclusion of an option to "renegotiate" our relationship with the EU and repatriate some powers to Westminster. To suggest such things are possible is simply disingenuous, as Autonomous Mind rightly points out:
http://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/2011/10/23/poisoning-the-well/ (http://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/2011/10/23/poisoning-the-well/)
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The Cameroons will win this vote tonight, but at what cost?
UKIP will be very pleased.
Me, too. ;) :y
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85 rebel Tory M.P's, those who do what their constituents want, the rest of the house are self serving bottom wipes :( :(
One in eye for Cameron, weak as Major I hear them say. ;)
VOTE UKIP. :y
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85 rebel Tory M.P's, those who do what their constituents want, the rest of the house are self serving bottom wipes :( :(
One in eye for Cameron, weak as Major I hear them say. ;)
VOTE UKIP. :y
If it really is 85 that would be a sensational rebellion in the history of the Tory Party. Can't argue with your summary, Cleggy.! :y
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I've had enough of the lies they keep telling us. >:( Here comes another voter for UKIP.
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I've had enough of the lies they keep telling us. >:( Here comes another voter for UKIP.
Good man! :y
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85 rebel Tory M.P's, those who do what their constituents want, the rest of the house are self serving bottom wipes :( :(
One in eye for Cameron, weak as Major I hear them say. ;)
VOTE UKIP. :y
If it really is 85 that would be a sensational rebellion in the history of the Tory Party. Can't argue with your summary, Cleggy.! :y
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15425256
'111 for the motion 483 against ' :(
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Some of those 111 will be Labour MP,s plus the Ulster unionists who have always been anti EU. ;)
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Some of those 111 will be Labour MP,s plus the Ulster unionists who have always been anti EU. ;)
True, but 85 Tories (if so) is an impressive rebellion. From where I am standing Cameron is toast. Maybe not right now, but he will not lead the Conservatives into the next election.
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I wonder what the figure would have been had all three party leaders not put up a three line whip, whose tactics included promising people that their careers would be destroyed if they didnt do as they were told ? ::)
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I hope your right Nick,and that David Davis is rallying his troops on readiness. :y
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Up to 81 Tory MPs were believed to have defied a three-line whip, the strongest party instruction on how to vote. Thanks to Labour and Lib Dem MPs, the vote was defeated by 483 to 111, with around 50 abstentions.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2053011/Bloody-nose-Cameron-Massive-rebellion-Europe--insists-Britain-wait-YEARS-claw-powers-Brussels.html#ixzz1bjwZ6U7b
Not that I believe it would be any different if there hadn't been a "three-line whip" (who knew MPs were into bondage?). Nor do I believe it would be any different with UKIP in power... I'm sure they'd rapidly find a reason not to exit the EU (their pockets being lined with gold, for example) once they were in power. Perhaps I'm just overly cynical, but I don't think it matters which way you vote; politicians look out for politicians, and the regular joe schmoe gets the shitty end of the stick.
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true democracy when your told how you have to vote. can't wait for the local elections so i can tell them what i think at the polling stations.
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Up to 81 Tory MPs were believed to have defied a three-line whip, the strongest party instruction on how to vote. Thanks to Labour and Lib Dem MPs, the vote was defeated by 483 to 111, with around 50 abstentions.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2053011/Bloody-nose-Cameron-Massive-rebellion-Europe--insists-Britain-wait-YEARS-claw-powers-Brussels.html#ixzz1bjwZ6U7b
Not that I believe it would be any different if there hadn't been a "three-line whip" (who knew MPs were into bondage?). Nor do I believe it would be any different with UKIP in power... I'm sure they'd rapidly find a reason not to exit the EU (their pockets being lined with gold, for example) once they were in power. Perhaps I'm just overly cynical, but I don't think it matters which way you vote; politicians look out for politicians, and the regular joe schmoe gets the shitty end of the stick.
Your wrong on one point Aaron. Quite a lot of MP,s (no telling exactly how many) wanted to vote differently,but were bullied and put under extreme pressure to vote on Camerons line.
These three line whips are serious stuff. The whips keep their ears to the ground and have spies who report to them.They keep notes on MP,s so they can use them if need be.Its common practice to threaten to reveal extra marital affairs, out married gays, threaten to have MP,s deselected,assure them that they will never have any kind of promotion,and have even been rumoured to resort to threats of physical violence when all else fails.
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Your wrong on one point Aaron. Quite a lot of MP,s (no telling exactly how many) wanted to vote differently,but were bullied and put under extreme pressure to vote on Camerons line.
These three line whips are serious stuff. The whips keep their ears to the ground and have spies who report to them.They keep notes on MP,s so they can use them if need be.Its common practice to threaten to reveal extra marital affairs, out married gays, threaten to have MP,s deselected,assure them that they will never have any kind of promotion,and have even been rumoured to resort to threats of physical violence when all else fails.
In other words, we need a referendum on whether we pull out of our own political system before we worry about the one in Brussels. >:(
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I would rather do it the other way round Kevin. ;)
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Anybody seen a list of the MPs that voted against. If my MP didn't then I won't even tactically vote Tory instead of UKIP in the future, as it shows that the Tory EU skeptical marketing, is just a pack of lies. >:( >:( >:(
David Cameron's suggesting he would hold a vote of Lisbon treaty and then using weasel excuses to abandon this, just shows him up, for what he is, an unprincipled chancer out to get our votes by any deceitful means IMHO. If he had any principles, after his previous promises on an EU referendum he would have allowed a free vote on this motion. >:( >:( >:(
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Here you go Rod
Full list of MPs who voted against the EU referendumA total of 81 Tory MPs rebelled against the government. In all, 79 Tory MPs voted in favour of an EU referendum while a further two were tellers for the rebels
reddit this Patrick Wintour The Guardian, Tuesday 25 October 2011 Article history A total of 81 Conservative MPs rebelled against the government. In all, 79 Tory MPs voted in favour of an EU referendum while a further two were tellers for the rebels
• Tory rebels Stuart Andrew (Pudsey), Steven Baker (Wycombe), John Baron (Basildon & Billericay), Andrew Bingham (High Peak), Brian Binley (Northampton South), Bob Blackman (Harrow East), Graham Brady (Altrincham & Sale West), Andrew Bridgen (Leicestershire North West), Steve Brine (Winchester), Fiona Bruce (Congleton), Dan Byles (Warwickshire North), Douglas Carswell (Clacton), Bill Cash (Stone), Christopher Chope (Christchurch), James Clappison (Hertsmere), Tracey Crouch (Chatham & Aylesford), David Davies (Monmouth), Philip Davies (Shipley), David Davis (Haltemprice & Howden), Nick de Bois (Enfield North), Caroline Dinenage (Gosport), Nadine Dorries (Bedfordshire Mid), Richard Drax (Dorset South), Mark Field (Cities of London & Westminster), Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble), Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park), James Gray (Wiltshire North), Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry), Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne & Sheppey), George Hollingbery (Meon Valley), Adam Holloway (Gravesham), Stewart Jackson (Peterborough), Bernard Jenkin (Harwich & Essex North), Marcus Jones (Nuneaton), Chris Kelly (Dudley South), Andrea Leadsom (Northamptonshire South), Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford), Edward Leigh (Gainsborough), Julian Lewis (New Forest East), Karen Lumley (Redditch), Jason McCartney (Colne Valley), Karl McCartney (Lincoln), Stephen McPartland (Stevenage), Anne Main (St Albans), Patrick Mercer (Newark), Nigel Mills (Amber Valley), Anne-Marie Morris (Newton Abbot), James Morris (Halesowen & Rowley Regis), Stephen Mosley (Chester, City of), Sheryll Murray (Cornwall South East), Caroline Nokes (Romsey & Southampton North), David Nuttall (Bury North), Matthew Offord (Hendon), Neil Parish (Tiverton & Honiton), Priti Patel (Witham), Andrew Percy (Brigg & Goole), Mark Pritchard (Wrekin, The), Mark Reckless (Rochester & Strood), John Redwood (Reading), Jacob Rees-Mogg (Somerset North East), Simon Reevell (Dewsbury), Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury), Andrew Rosindell (Romford), Richard Shepherd (Aldridge-Brownhills), Henry Smith (Crawley), John Stevenson (Carlisle), Bob Stewart (Beckenham), Gary Streeter (Devon South West), Julian Sturdy (York Outer), Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth & Horncastle), Justin Tomlinson (Swindon North), Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight), Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes), Charles Walker (Broxbourne), Robin Walker (Worcester), Heather Wheeler (Derbyshire South), Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley), John Whittingdale (Maldon), Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes)
Two Tory MPs acted as tellers for the rebels. They were Peter Bone (Wellingborough) and Philip Hollobone (Kettering).
Two Tory MPs voted in both the Aye and Noe lobbies. This counts as an abstention. They were: Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) and Mike Weatherley (Hove)
• 19 Labour rebels Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley), Rosie Cooper (Lancashire West), Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North), Jon Cruddas (Dagenham & Rainham), John Cryer (Leyton & Wanstead), Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West), Natascha Engel (Derbyshire North East), Frank Field (Birkenhead), Roger Godsiff (Birmingham Hall Green), Kate Hoey (Vauxhall), Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North), Steve McCabe (Birmingham Selly Oak), John McDonnell (Hayes & Harlington), Austin Mitchell (Great Grimsby), Dennis Skinner (Bolsover), Andrew Smith (Oxford East), Graham Stringer (Blackley & Broughton), Gisela Stuart (Birmingham Edgbaston), Mike Wood (Batley & Spen).
• One Liberal Democrat rebel Adrian Sanders (Torbay)
• Eight Democratic Unionist Party MPs who voted for the referendum: Gregory Campbell (Londonderry East), Nigel Dodds (Belfast North), Jeffrey Donaldson (Lagan Valley), Rev William McCrea (Antrim South), Ian Paisley Junior (Antrim North), Jim Shannon (Strangford), David Simpson (Upper Bann), Sammy Wilson (Antrim East)
• Independent Unionist who voted for the referendum: Lady Sylvia Hermon (Down North)
• Green Party Leader Caroline Lucas (Brighton Pavilion) voted for the referendum
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Your wrong on one point Aaron. Quite a lot of MP,s (no telling exactly how many) wanted to vote differently,but were bullied and put under extreme pressure to vote on Camerons line.
These three line whips are serious stuff. The whips keep their ears to the ground and have spies who report to them.They keep notes on MP,s so they can use them if need be.Its common practice to threaten to reveal extra marital affairs, out married gays, threaten to have MP,s deselected,assure them that they will never have any kind of promotion,and have even been rumoured to resort to threats of physical violence when all else fails.
In other words, we need a referendum on whether we pull out of our own political system before we worry about the one in Brussels. >:(
In other words, we need a referendum on whether we pull out of our own political system before we worry about the one in Brussels.
That's getting nearer to the point K :y
'Brussels' is a relatively minor part of the problem – we need a complete overhaul of the political system within this country and that’s going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to achieve.
Some time ago in a reply to a political thread I suggested that this country was fundamentally broken. Lizzie Zoom, who was a keen political commentator at the time, disagreed with my analysis of the then ails of the country – that was before the financial melt-down and the terrible black hole that is coalition government and all that that implies for the fortunes of this country.
She saw great hope for the future in the young peoples of this country – I disagreed with her at the time and still do, there seems precious little to interest many young people that doesn’t come from a screen or the glossy picture laden pages of inconsequential magazines.
We have lost control of our parliament, local councils, financial system and system of justice and its administration to an unelected body. Foreign conglomerates control the very services we depend on for health, wealth and a stable progressive future - particularly in the provision of an energy network.
Business now rules in a way that was unthinkable years ago and its influence now affects how we go about our daily lives - an influence oriented towards the bottom line howsoever that disadvantages the very people supporting and depending upon the services of such business activities in the first place.
No, we are in the midst of a rampant bureaucracy and rabid big business both of which are determined to survive and control in any way that best suits their agenda.
We are leaderless - more so, we are considered to be of the least importance where government and authority are concerned, we are regulated and controlled in a way that saddens me by the very institutions I represented for most of my adult life.
We are led by charlatans and self-serving elitists who look no further than the sphere of their own influence and how it can be reinforced to maintain their position of power and wealth.
In relation to the OP I’m thinking particularly of Michael Gove and all those earnest parliamentarians who appeared in the MSM spouting about the need to repatriate power back from ‘Brussels’ –“When the time was right”, - who gave it away in the first oppsing place?
Finally and almost as an afterthought – to those of my ex-colleagues who peruse my writings lest I travel too far from the Rubicon - its getting near the time when the forces of law and order started to uphold their warrant and freed themselves from being the lackeys and blunt instrument of the government of the day – and of recent administrations.
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Seconded Den
Most people are just treated no better than drones.
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Varche, your comment reminded me of this article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/8836133/Have-the-middle-classes-lost-their-place.html
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81 Tories,19 Labour, 1 Libdim, and the Ulster unionists is the tally according to sky news.
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81 Tories,19 Labour, 1 Libdim, and the Ulster unionists is the tally according to sky news.
Indeed, Albs, quite a showing. I notice there is already a fresh petition in the making. Unfortunately I put the link in the other EU thread by mistake, but was unable to delete it and move it here. ;) ;)
Den makes (as always) some very pertinent points in his post above. The anti-democratic self-serving political classes have wormed their way to the top at each level, from local authority, to government...and to Brussels. >:(
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81 Tories,19 Labour, 1 Libdim, and the Ulster unionists is the tally according to sky news.
Full listing at the botom of page 3 :y
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81 Tories,19 Labour, 1 Libdim, and the Ulster unionists is the tally according to sky news.
Full listing at the botom of page 3 :y
OOPS PAGE 2 ::)