Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: blackviper90210 on 21 October 2011, 13:30:35
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While at college yesterday, SWMBO text me telling me a police officer was looking for me about an incident on the road about 2-3 weeks ago and that he would ring back later.
The officer rang this morning, but missed his call, so rang back and awaiting his call again.
The only thing I can think of, is when a VW Golf decided to take my lane whilst going round the roundabout at Jcn 4 M5. I stood my ground and he clipped my wing mirror. I stopped, gave him an earfull and seeing other than nudging my mirror, drove off. Thought nothing more about it.
I reckon he must of taken my number and reported me, best I don't find out where he lives or he'll be bloody sorry, cheeky little *%$£ker >:(
Anyway, just wait and see now
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Dave, give me a bell tonight?
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any witnesses? you need to plan this carefully - keep away from detail on the verbal exchange (except to acknowledge that you protested at his driving)as he may be alleging threatening behaviour etc to constitute assault (being in fear of physical violence etc). Police do not normally pursue one word against another cases in relation to minor incidents but James will be better placed on this.
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It's most likely chappy has reported you for failing to stop at the scene of an accident.
Have a chat with the PC and find out for sure, but try not to worry too much. One would like to think if it's a case of a mirror pushed, no damage caused and everone being grown up about it, it would be most effective to deal with it informally.
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I would be etremely careful. He probably has had chance to amass many witnesses (friends)and is after insurance details and maybe some injury claim.
I hope I am wrong, but it happened to me.
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Cheers for the advice all, especially you James.
Just spoken to the Officer on the telephone. He's confirmed the incident involved the Vw Golf and said that I had been reported for road rage!
He didn't ask me for information on the inicident as he wants to do this in person. I got the feeling he wants me to goto the station to do this, is this a good idea or not?
I've nothing to hide/fear as I know I've done nothing wrong, except give the other driver a piece of my mind for hitting my wing mirror ::)
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Be carefull in going to the police station, i've heard of cases where people going to the station for a "chat" end up getting arrested , get some legal advice first
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ROAD RAGE for shouting at someone???...blimey that would have 90 % of us in the poo...would'nt worry too much although could this guy be accused of doing something un p.c?? :y
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They only cation(spelling) you if they feel you have commited an offence more than likely just to take a statement from you,fool probably told them you threatend them with a weapon
Imo they were at fault deserved everything they got these idiots should be removed from the road
As said be careful how you word things if giving a statement just take a little time to think your ans through before giving them
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well no they will read you your rights for a number of reasons BUT if they do so what :y
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I'll just tell them what happened.
He tried to force his way into my lane, I kept my position and then he clipped my mirror, I looked across, words were mouthed at each other. I believed he was getting very upset and may get physical, so knowing only wing mirrors touched and no "damage" done, drove away.
TBH, that's pretty much what happened :(
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yup tell them that :y
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Well after a nice day at the Chasewater meet, I came home waiting for the phone call from the police about this alleged "road rage" incident. The officer said he would ring between 3 - 4pm and either visit or I'd goto to the station in Rubery... suprise suprise, no phone call ???
Now either something major came up or they're not that bothered, either way a courtesy call either way would have been nice, hey hum. They'll just have to wait til I'm free now and with SWMBO due to have a baby any day now, it could be a long wait on their behalf, lol ::)
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I had a bit of a do like that and after the hassle I got onto the DVLA (cost me £2.00 online) and gave them the reg number and they gave me the address of the registered owner. It is perfectly legal to request it if there was an accident and damage of however tiny caused. Just remember though that they are informed of who requested the info.
Hope that helps. :y
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Well after a nice day at the Chasewater meet, I came home waiting for the phone call from the police about this alleged "road rage" incident. The officer said he would ring between 3 - 4pm and either visit or I'd goto to the station in Rubery... suprise suprise, no phone call ???
Now either something major came up or they're not that bothered, either way a courtesy call either way would have been nice, hey hum. They'll just have to wait til I'm free now and with SWMBO due to have a baby any day now, it could be a long wait on their behalf, lol ::)
Sadly, for me, that is no surprise, EVERY time I have had need to contact the Police its been me constantly chasing them and calling them.
One incident was where some guy hit me car and would not stop, the other where I caught two vandals smashing up railway coaches.
On both occasions it was a case of 'we will call you' etc etc etc, they never have and its always me chasing them.
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I appreciate that there is not enough police officers and there is so much work to be done, far more important than me, but just a courtesy call from the station to say that he was busy and would call at a later date, it's not that difficult ???
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Indeed, dont ever say you will call and then dont, rather better to say we will contact you in due course or call us.
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****Update****
Had Pc Little ring me & then turn up at my house last night regarding the incident.
He cautioned me but said I wasn't under arrest. I asked him what the complaint was and he replied - undue car and attention & dangerous driving.
He informs me that it was an off duty police officer in the other car that was involved and has been pestering him for updates on the situation!! He didn't seem to impressed by him, tbh.
Anyway, I gave him the details of events that day and as it turns out, its nothing like what this copper has said. I apparently chased him and cut him up approaching a set of lights, then when they went green cut him up again and hit wingmirrors before driving off!!
I'm impressed with that version of events, lol.
He tells me that officers can no longer deal with these cases anymore, it has to go before some office workers to decide if there is a case to be answered at court. If so, I could at worst, be jailed. More likely though, fined, retested and given points. The best part though, it can take 6 months to find out!! Yippeeee f**king do. >:(
So there you have it, don't cut off duty coppers up, they are great story tellers, lol. No, in all seriousness I don't have an issue with the Police. They have a hard enough job as it is and like all trades, there are a few bad apples!!
Just wait 'n see now :-\
Anyone want to buy a 3.0 estate LPG'd / swop for a push bike? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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contest the hell out of it...
all they have is his word against yours and no proof.
he's an off duty copper, so what.... he's a human, male.... not a bloody god.
been there, seen that, done it, got the tee shirt....
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Cheers for that MaxV6, I intend to. Its just the waiting game :(
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Take care!possible stitch up coming you're way! >:(
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If its your word against an off duty copper,your breaked mate. :(
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If its your word against an off duty copper,your breaked mate. :(
Foregone conclusion I would imagine
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Dave,
Did the PC Say these words to you:
"You will be reported for the offence(s) of: ***"
?
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Interestingly....IF he was off duty he wasn't travelling during the course of his duties.
Did he track you down by going the correct DVLA route OR did he use the National Police Computer Data base.
If the latter and with him being "off duty" then his actions may well be illegal.
I've always been under the impression that Police Officers can not use the Data base for personal matters under
the Data Protection Act.
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Interestingly....IF he was off duty he wasn't travelling during the course of his duties.
Did he track you down by going the correct DVLA route OR did he use the National Police Computer Data base.
If the latter and with him being "off duty" then his actions may well be illegal.
I've always been under the impression that Police Officers can not use the Data base for personal matters under
the Data Protection Act.
Duggs,
Sentiments of your post are correct, however the law makes no distinction as to whether a Constable is on/off duty.
It sounds to me like the off duty officer simply noted down the VRM, and passed it on to a colleague to deal with - who, based upon this complaint, would have got Dave's details from PNC.
This would be the correct course of action, as it would be a conflict of interests for the officer (complanant) to deal with it / make the enquiries himself.
Assuming this is the case, nothing illegal and no data protection issues have occured.
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Hi Dave,
Bear in mind this is, very strictly, a matter of my personal opinion – but here are a few of my thoughts.
The PC said to you the complaint was driving without due care and attention, AND dangerous driving?
They quite simply cannot have two bites at the cherry on this one!
As far as the allegation goes, you were either driving without due care, or you were or driving dangerously. You can only be charged / summonsed for ONE of those offences.
It’s very important that you know which one of those offences (If any) they intend to slot you for. This is because the implications of them both, are vastly different.
Driving without due care and attention
This is a summary traffic offence, which means the Police can summons you to court if they consider the offence to be complete, and believe there to be sufficient evidence. The sentencing guidelines for this, if convicted, are 3 to 9 penalty points and a financial penalty of no greater than £5000. This offence does not carry any custodial sentence, and there is zero chance of being locked up for it. The reality is, is you have a clean(ish) licence, the likely outcome (if convicted of course) would be three penalty points, and a fine equivalent to a weeks worth of your income.
Dangerous Driving
For this offence, Police need would need authorisation from the CPS before you can be charged/summonsed. The reality is, it is rare for CPS to roll with dangerous driving, unless there is some VERY concrete evidence of it. Specifically, it would have to be objectively evidenced how the alleged driving was ‘dangerous’ as opposed to simply careless.
Either way, if they are serious about prosecuting you for one of the offences, you should be given the opportunity to be interviewed under caution, to put across your version of events, and put forward any defences/denials you may wish to make.
Due care/Dangerous driving isn’t an absolute offence (Eg, like with insurance, where you either have it or you don’t) – it’s objective, and therefore you would need to be at least given the opportunity to co-operate with an interview, during which you’re entitled to legal representation if you want it.
Dave – did the PC record anything you said, either in his Pocket Notebook, or on a form called a “Contemporaneous Interview”? Did he get you to sign anything?
The job of the Police is to gather evidence, and investigate allegations thoroughly – not decide on what sentences people are likely to get. Personally – and this is only a personal opinion, I reckon the fact that the officer involved is speaking of Jail, Disqualifications / Retests etc, means he might just be trying to give you a shake-up and make you sweat!!
I also agree wholeheartedly with MAXV6 – who cares that the bloke is off duty Job?
Yes it may mean the courts consider him a credible witness – but, that doesn’t mean your credibility is any lower!!
Remember, as far as you know, he is the only witness against you, and assuming this is the case - it is still only his opinion of events against yours. If you truly believe you are not guilty, then you absolutely have to contest it to the very end…
Like I say – this is a personal view. You know where I am, pick up the phone or pop down if you want to chat about it….
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Bloody hell James, your a walking law bible, lol. Cheers for the info mate!!
I was under caution and he wrote down everything we said. Afterwards, he got me to thoroughly read all that he'd written and asked me to sign against my replies. He made it crystal clear to me that I had to be totally happy with the report before I sign each one, if I wasn't happy, he'd re-write it.
It was spot on and I had no issues with it, then it turns out he noticed the picture of my 2 brother in laws, both of which he knows (they're both serving in West Mercia, Worcester). Both had a good chuckle and he asked me to say hi to both of them and if I can't get hold of him, get them to get hold of him through work!
Thanks again James, much appreciated mate! :y
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Bloody hell James, your a walking law bible, lol. Cheers for the info mate!!
I was under caution and he wrote down everything we said. Afterwards, he got me to thoroughly read all that he'd written and asked me to sign against my replies. He made it crystal clear to me that I had to be totally happy with the report before I sign each one, if I wasn't happy, he'd re-write it.
It was spot on and I had no issues with it, then it turns out he noticed the picture of my 2 brother in laws, both of which he knows (they're both serving in West Mercia, Worcester). Both had a good chuckle and he asked me to say hi to both of them and if I can't get hold of him, get them to get hold of him through work!
Thanks again James, much appreciated mate! :y
That would have been an MG15 - Contempraneous Interview. So you have been interviewed.
Were you told that you have a right to legal representation, at any time?
Did he say to you "You will be reported" for any offences?
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Experienced a similar, though totally unrelated situation myself a while back.
In the situation that you've outlined here, the interviewing officer MUST inform you of your rights (the right to a duty solicitor), BEFORE commencing said interview. If you do require legal representation, then the Police must arrange this, and TWO officers have to be present thence. This procedure can be a right pain for them, so it seems that he 'forgot' to mention this here.
And the term 'under caution': You're technically under caution whenever such an interview takes place - it's nowt to bother yourself over.
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VERY interesting read chaps ! An education at Dave's expence sadly.
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Somebody has been pissed off and is using there role/contacts to give you a shake up by the sound of it.
You can bet your life if YOU went to the police and reported such an offence nothing would be done in the same way the guy who bumped my car and failed to stop didn't even get a visit :y
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In the situation that you've outlined here, the interviewing officer MUST inform you of your rights (the right to a duty solicitor), BEFORE commencing said interview. If you do require legal representation, then the Police must arrange this, and TWO officers have to be present thence. This procedure can be a right pain for them, so it seems that he 'forgot' to mention this here.
This only applies in Custody, when someone has been arrested.
If someone is being inverviewed voluntarily, when they are not under arrest - if they want a legal rep, it's up to them to find one...
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I've been watching this thread with interest and, irrespective of what has been alleged, the apparently reasonable attitude of the investigating officer, the photographs hanging on the wall or indeed anything else - should any person ever be obliged to deal with the police in this manner, the only word of advice I can give is to do so having had legal advice beforehand or at the time.
I've seen many situations run out of control because people did not have suitable advice before committing themselves under caution. You need to know precisely where you stand legally in relation to any allegations made against you, but more importantly - sadly too late in your circumstances - you must understand the implications of making any statement to a police officer, on duty, investigating matters concerning your legal culpability without having had the prior benefit of legal advice.
This may die a death but I seen circumstances where the person making the allegations – especially if they’re in the job – deciding to dig their heels in and make a meal of it.
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Hmmmmm ........
'Twas my experience James!
I wasn't in custody - merely being 'interviewed under caution'.
That said, I felt that the plods were a bunch of rank amateurs anyway, and I certainly wouldn't speak without legal representation - absolutely not!
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I certainly wouldn't speak without legal representation - absolutely not!
That one we can definitily agree on Seth :y
(By the way, may I ask what happened to Sethsmate? Was that you?) ;D
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I seen - should have read - I've seen. >:(
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I certainly wouldn't speak without legal representation - absolutely not!
That one we can definitily agree on Seth :y
(By the way, may I ask what happened to Sethsmate? Was that you?) ;D
PM sent James :y
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i am with den get yourself a bloody good brief... :y
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Looks very much like an abuse of his position and hopefully this thing blows up in his face,the big tart :y
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Evening ladies & gentlemen!
Thank you all for your support & words of advice, although it seems I've gone past the point on some of them regarding statements & briefs etc. I am concerned, but only because I'm never in trouble. On the flip side, I'm also not bothered as I know I did nothing wrong and I'll stand and shout til the cows come home!
The only saving grace at this time I think, is whilst I'm sadly out of work, maybe my the taxes I've paid over the years will cover a brief IF I need one. ::)
The officer did say, in his opinion, that he doubt much will come of this. No disrespect to any police officer, but he wasn't a "boy in a uniform" but was armed response, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Only time will tell now :-\
As and when I know more, I'll keep you updated. Thanks again all :y
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Looks very much like an abuse of his position and hopefully this thing blows up in his face,the big tart :y
And this is based on what, exactly?
He made a report to another officer, who is now dealing. Where is the abuse of position?
He has a right to make an allegation, pc or not. And dave has a right to contest it.
The officer is not dealing with it himself so where is the abuse?
Sorry, i see no tangible evidence there has been an abuse of process here...
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I have to agree with James, I don't believe there has been any abuse of position tbh. Copper or not, he has every right, as all do, to report an incident if we believe that we have been wronged :y
The only thing that has rattled me with the complainant is the fact that he described a totally different event to what actually happened.
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Hi,Blackviper. just a thought regarding legal help/expenses,are you a member of the AA/RAC as they offer legal assistance to their members.
Alfie
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Aha, I am a member of the AA, I'll get the docs out tomorrow and have a look. Cheers for the heads up! :y
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good spot! Also, would 'legal cover' on your insurance be worth anything in this instance? I genuinely don't know.....
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good spot! Also, would 'legal cover' on your insurance be worth anything in this instance? I genuinely don't know.....
Would have thought so :-\ Also worth checking to see if you have it with your bank/trade body (if a member) as many avenues supply it now ;)
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The PC said to you the complaint was driving without due care and attention, AND dangerous driving?
They quite simply cannot have two bites at the cherry on this one!
As far as the allegation goes, you were either driving without due care, or you were or driving dangerously. You can only be charged / summonsed for ONE of those offences.
Perhaps the 'due care and attention' bit was the initial lane transgression and the 'dangerous driving' was after the traffic lights had changed, when blackviper 'rammed' the complainants car?
Just wait 'n see now :-\
Speaking from personal experience (I still have the scars) my advice would be to just take whats coming to you, even though you may have been hard done by it's just not worth arguing with the Police, they are very rarely found to be in the wrong.
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good spot! Also, would 'legal cover' on your insurance be worth anything in this instance? I genuinely don't know.....
I doubt it would help, as far as I know it's used for recovering any 'uninsured' losses such as compensation for injuries, loss of earnings, travel costs etc...
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My concern is that there has been a more 'involved' response due to the complainants position as we all know very well that us as Joe Public would not have been given the time of day in this scenario (and I have evidence of this on two occasions).
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So if you dont agree that he is'nt abusing his position but that he has blown every thing out of proportion and embelished the facts to the point that you may well get stitched up, I personaly dont see it any other way!!And lets take it to another level in the course of his every day duties and how much "embelishment" would be needed to make a conviction (allegedly) ;)
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bent coppers at their finest :( get yourself a good solicitor and say nothing to the old bill without him/her in attendance :y
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Unfortunately it's a bit late for that now as I've already given my statement. At this time, I'm not overly unhappy with that as the officer who took my statement only asked for my side of the event. I gave that and that was all. :y
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I reckon you'll be ok fella, its your word against another civilian. He spotted your inlaws who are both coppers he knows and obviously respects/likes ("say hello or get them to call me"). Your inlaws will be cracking character references, talk to them. You also said he seemed less than impressed with the other guys complaint. He is the officer dealing with the situation, not the Golf driver. Wouldn't worry at all - the other guy will just get a more enforced reputation of "idiot". :y :y
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This auto correction is brilliant - i didn't write "idiot".... i wrote "T vv @ t" :D
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lol, never written anything yet that needed auto correction, must try ::) Shows how boring my posts are then :-\
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Dave, there is a reasonably new scheme called 'community orientated policing', and another called 'restorative justice' which the Plod can use to deal with lesser offences.
I won't bore you with details, (you can google it) but it basically gives Police more discretion upon how they deal with such matters.
It basically involves sitting down both parties with a pC as a mediator, and letting them thrash it out. It can be hugely sucesfull, and sounds like this particular situation could be sorted out with little more than a shake of hands.
Now the sad thing is, community orientated policing cannot be used for traffic matters, but I'm not sure about restorative justice.
What I am suggesting is, ring the PC and suggest you all meet to resolve things informally.
Even if it's an ultimate 'no', the courts would probably look very favourably on you for trying.
Either way, if you are served papers, get representation.... :y
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Thats not a bad idea James! I'd actually like to meet the guy, genuinely, just to ask WHY he stated what he did as it was not even close to what happened :-\
I'll try & get hold of the officer and or leave a message and see what comes of it :y
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I would caution you about initiating any contact in this way as it may well be seen as an acknowledgement that you had indeed something to answer for.
I would still seek legal advice before making further comment.
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I would leave it and do nothing for the moment
This bloke sounds like a complete merchant banker and lets be honest here, he knows the law better then you :(
He will only try to get you to say something so he can twist it around and use it against you >:(
You have given your side of the story
He will have given his story/ b*llocks
Let them try and prove it in a court of law if they want to
If you get anymore hassle of them, say nothing and get a brief :y
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must type faster ::)
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Forgot too add .............. If you are arrested ................ repeat once what happened then say sweet f*ck all else :y
Don't even comment on anything they say ;)
Must add ............... i'm talking from experience here ;) ;)
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I would leave it and do nothing for the moment
This bloke sounds like a complete merchant banker and lets be honest here, he knows the law better then you :(
He will only try to get you to say something so he can twist it around and use it against you >:(
You have given your side of the story
He will have given his story/ b*llocks
Let them try and prove it in a court of law if they want to
If you get anymore hassle of them, say nothing and get a brief :y
Plus one :y :y
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This kind of made up story about what has supposedly happened on the road makes a very good argument for a Roadhawk camera.
I just feel that I'd shoot myself in the foot if I bought & used one. ??? ???
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This kind of made up story about what has supposedly happened on the road makes a very good argument for a Roadhawk camera.
I just feel that I'd shoot myself in the foot if I bought & used one. ??? ???
I just feel that I'd shoot myself in the foot if I bought & used one
You're right Andy - committing your every move to a video record may well be a double edged sword.
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Not for me in this case it wouldn't have done. I did ask the officer if there was a motorway or highway camera in the vicinity covering the incident area, unfortunately not......just my bloody luck :(
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I'd go and have a look for myself..... ;)
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I'd go and have a look for myself..... ;)
Just a note on cctv.
If a recording of the event has taken place, under homeoffice cctv compience rules, the images will be time and date stamped and must be kept for a minimum of 30 days so it might be a idea to take a look and see if there any cameras on the route that you have supposed to have comitted this vicious crime ;)
If you see any that "may" have infomation on, see a brief and get a request under the data protection act for a copy ;) :y
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Excellent idea.That could show the bent copper up for what he is.Might even help get the bad apple out of the barrel. :y
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I'd already looked and couldn't see any either.
Regarding CCTV etc, I did 10 years for a local authority using CCTV inconjuction with the police. The minimum was 28 days, unless we had a official requests from the police that evidence was/possibly on a particular camera, in which case, the relevant tape with that camera on was bagged & tagged until further notice :y
Miss doing that job though, caught loads of criminals saw some funny things but also saw some horrific vehicle crashes and suicides...not pleasant :(
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UPDATE:
Just received a summons to court for the offence of Undue Care & Attention.
I'm due to appear in April...... so much for it not going anywhere :(
Let's see what happens now :-\
Maybe I should set a pole up on whether they believe a lying scheming pig policeofficer or a law abiding 23 year clean licence holder ::) Answers on a post card? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Damn, they are going the whole hog!
If it's any help, try visiting http://www.pepipoo.com/ (http://www.pepipoo.com/)
Loads of useful info from them and probably similar case histories that may help you out with precedents as well.
Above all, get legal assistance.
Didn't realise your age either, I'm afraid that will go against you as well, assuming you have been driving since legal age it still only gives you 6 years experience and the copper, well who knows??
It just grips my sh1te that he must know that what he said didn't happen but is bringing the full force to bear down on you. As said previously, if the shoe had been on the other foot and you had done the complaining/reporting, nothing would have happened at all.
I wish you the best of luck, you will need it!
Jon
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i think he means he's held a license for 23 years...although he'll thank u for thinking he's only 23 y old...lol
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Cheers for that Jon :y
Probably didn't write it straight, sorry mate. I'm actually 40 with 23 years driving, lol. Wish I was 23 though ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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i think he means he's held a license for 23 years...although he'll thank u for thinking he's only 23 y old...lol
Oh yes :y
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Get the best legal advise you can :y
Also try and find out if this officer has any dubious history with things like this ;)
Just because the tw*t has a warrent card in his pocket, it doesn't mean he has been a saint all his life >:(
Do you know anybody who works for the local paper ?
Start asking around ;)
Good luck mate :)
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40's still young.......in my book anyway. :y
I mis-read that bit about the 23 year clean licence :-[ Re-read it now and it all makes sense. ;)
Anyhoo, I stand by what I said, get onto pepipoo and get a good brief, make sure they know traffic law and are not just a general solicitor, they can be worse than having no-one for all the good they do.
There's loads more about representing yourself and having McKenzie friends but thats all on the website.
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Not good.
Time to get an expensive traffic brief.
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Is it possible that the only way the copper can get the cost of repairing his car is to prove somebody else is culpable?
I'm sure 23 years of clean driving will speak volumes, and I'm even more sure that if there is any justice in this world, this will also turn out ok in the end. Even if it is a ball ache at the moment!
Good luck...!
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Dave,
I'm not 100% on this one, but think that the Officer in question (driving) would also have to provide a statement of the facts and sign it that it is believed to be a true statement of facts.
You know where I am, give me a bell if you want to, even if just to vent off steam! ;) .
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Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll be having a deeper look at the website too, after just browsing it, it looks ideal, cheers!
Regarding a brief, I've got no chance. I barely have enough money each week to make ends meet, baby, toddler and SWMBO :(
I can't understand how they can take it this far considering it's just one word against another. There is no other witnesses, no video footage etc??
I'll be going back to my RAF driver training days and drawing a step by step diagram of road markings and vehicle positions etc. I'm also going to ask for copies of any evidence they have against me and ask for the other persons details. I also want to know if it was HIS idea to prosecute me for undue care & attention or whether he has had any input into it etc.
I'm also going to ask my 2 brother in laws if they will attend with me and be a character reference for me, providing they're not on duty!!
If all else fails, I'll make it worth while if they decide to find me guilty. Never been one for going down quietly. If they think a stuck up bloke wearing a girls wig who knows nothing about me, bothers me.... I'll take him out on a tour of Helmand the next time I go.... I'll take the copper too and use him as a mine detector!
That copper is making my blood boil...argghhhhhhhhhhhh.......
Sorry about that last bit....steam vent just gave way >:(
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Dave,
I'm not 100% on this one, but think that the Officer in question (driving) would also have to provide a statement of the facts and sign it that it is believed to be a true statement of facts.
You know where I am, give me a bell if you want to, even if just to vent off steam! ;) .
Cheers Mike. appreciate that. I might end up joining you and Dan down the pub on Sunday after the meet, lol.
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just seen this thread, if you know the name of the police officer please pm me. I overtook a nissan micra and an articulated lorry, in a 60mph zone on single carriageway. didnt think anything of it. recieved a knock on the door 3 days later with 2 uniformed officers. asked me what happened and I honestly told them. turned out the micra driver was an off duty cop who reported me for dangerous driving, after I had given my version of accounts he gave a statement. HE WAS THE COP TAKING MY STATEMENT!
anyway his version was physically impossible but I still had to go to court 4 times, 3 of which he didnt turn up to, neither did his star witness, his wife who had been sat in the passenger seat!
The 4th time at court we proceeded with the hearing even though he hadnt turned up. A police officer is never off duty it seems, so no defence there, the magistrates decided that I must have done something to cause him to report me, I HONESTLY HADNT, they reduced the charge to driving without due care and attention gave me 5 points and a £400 fine!!
the cop had done very similar things before. just wondered if it was coincidental enough to be the same guy who transferred out of northumbria police VERY soon after the event.
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Dave, ini all seriouslness, do you fancy a pint one evening soon? I'll pop up to Bromsgrove on the train? :y
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Dave, honestly no disrespect to the poster above, but I would advise against disclosing too much to anyone on a forum, especially ID's and such, before you've taken legal advice.....
fattyfatty... if the officer who witnessed it is the one who interviewed you - there's no problem with that. If he was a VICTIM of an offence, then of course he couldn't deal - but, if he simply observed one, no problem whatsoever with him interviewing you.
It's no different to PC plod seeing someone committing a burglary, nicking them, and then doing the interview...
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just seen this thread, if you know the name of the police officer please pm me. I overtook a nissan micra and an articulated lorry, in a 60mph zone on single carriageway. didnt think anything of it. recieved a knock on the door 3 days later with 2 uniformed officers. asked me what happened and I honestly told them. turned out the micra driver was an off duty cop who reported me for dangerous driving, after I had given my version of accounts he gave a statement. HE WAS THE COP TAKING MY STATEMENT!
anyway his version was physically impossible but I still had to go to court 4 times, 3 of which he didnt turn up to, neither did his star witness, his wife who had been sat in the passenger seat!
The 4th time at court we proceeded with the hearing even though he hadnt turned up. A police officer is never off duty it seems, so no defence there, the magistrates decided that I must have done something to cause him to report me, I HONESTLY HADNT, they reduced the charge to driving without due care and attention gave me 5 points and a £400 fine!!
the cop had done very similar things before. just wondered if it was coincidental enough to be the same guy who transferred out of northumbria police VERY soon after the event.
If and when I find out his details, I'll post them up and then we'll see if it is the same guy. Be handy to check to see if he's done this type of thing before, even if it's not the same one ::)
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Dave, honestly no disrespect to the poster above, but I would advise against disclosing too much to anyone on a forum, especially ID's and such, before you've taken legal advice.....
fattyfatty... if the officer who witnessed it is the one who interviewed you - there's no problem with that. If he was a VICTIM of an offence, then of course he couldn't deal - but, if he simply observed one, no problem whatsoever with him interviewing you.
It's no different to PC plod seeing someone committing a burglary, nicking them, and then doing the interview...
Just seen your post James...point taken. Restraint on my part :y I need to chill a bit me thinks, lol :y
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I am in no way anti Police, indeed I often have to work alongside them :-X This however is a worrying situation, if an off duty Police Officer (I appreciate they are never off duty as such, much like me) can take such actions without supporting evidence / witness etc they could say almost anything, and there will always be the odd bad apple..... :o :o
Actually I am beginning to talk myself out of my argument...........Seems unfair and unbalanced though...... :-\ :-\
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Dave, honestly no disrespect to the poster above, but I would advise against disclosing too much to anyone on a forum, especially ID's and such, before you've taken legal advice.....
fattyfatty... if the officer who witnessed it is the one who interviewed you - there's no problem with that. If he was a VICTIM of an offence, then of course he couldn't deal - but, if he simply observed one, no problem whatsoever with him interviewing you.
It's no different to PC plod seeing someone committing a burglary, nicking them, and then doing the interview...
Just seen your post James...point taken. Restraint on my part :y I need to chill a bit me thinks, lol :y
And be on your best and most respectful behaviour in Court and wear a suit and tie........rightly or wrongly, first impressions and attidude DO count........... :y
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I've never been anti police as such. I have always tried to abide by the law and not go out of my way to break it. As you say, it feels slightly unfair as there is no other verification of the incident that has been described :-\
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Dave, I was always lead to believe that an officers version of events would be the true one but mine simply wasnt. Remember just because he is a police officer he is not always right. if you believe you have done nothing wrong you need legal advice and dangerous driving is an offence for which you get free legal advice. so do it quickly.
James, I only wanted him to PM me as I cant remember the cops surname only his first which I wont post on here.
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How about calming and stopping the speculation? Understand that all are trying to help, give the benefit of our experiences, which is a great OOF thing, but if I were the OP I might wish I'd never posted anything and just sit back until more information comes to light. Seems it's getting all a bit tense.
What's done is done, and what will happen ... well .... nobody knows yet.
Note to Blackviper - good luck with it. Chances are very little will happen
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Dave, I was always lead to believe that an officers version of events would be the true one but mine simply wasnt. Remember just because he is a police officer he is not always right. if you believe you have done nothing wrong you need legal advice and dangerous driving is an offence for which you get free legal advice. so do it quickly.
James, I only wanted him to PM me as I cant remember the cops surname only his first which I wont post on here.
Now that I didn't know about! :o
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Dave, I was always lead to believe that an officers version of events would be the true one but mine simply wasnt. Remember just because he is a police officer he is not always right. if you believe you have done nothing wrong you need legal advice and dangerous driving is an offence for which you get free legal advice. so do it quickly.
James, I only wanted him to PM me as I cant remember the cops surname only his first which I wont post on here.
Now that I didn't know about! :o
Neither did I, not sure that is right, guess you will find out though........ :y
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How about calming and stopping the speculation? Understand that all are trying to help, give the benefit of our experiences, which is a great OOF thing, but if I were the OP I might wish I'd never posted anything and just sit back until more information comes to light. Seems it's getting all a bit tense.
What's done is done, and what will happen ... well .... nobody knows yet.
Note to Blackviper - good luck with it. Chances are very little will happen
I appreciate where your coming from, but so far, because of my original post I have had pointers on websites that will offer help and fellow OOfer's who are in the know and who have offered their expertise. Had I not posted, I'd be worse off, IMO.
At the end of the day I listen to any advice I'm given as it's given with the best of intentions and with the benefit of that persons life experience. On top of all that, I have the last decision on whether I take, leave it or do nothing. Either way, I am grateful :y
I'm not knocking your post as such, just pointing out why I posted in the first place :)
And thank you for your support too, much appreciated mate :y
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if an off duty Police Officer (I appreciate they are never off duty as such, much like me) can take such actions without supporting evidence / witness etc they could say almost anything
Very true, but ultimately, if said officer was a bad apple, they wouldn't give a monkeys about fabricating / stretching the truth about something which they saw ON duty... so being off duty probably wouldn't have much distinction, in that instance..
I guess, in the same principle, any member of public could walk into a Police station and provide a statement / make a potentially false allegation against someone for a criminal offence. They'd then be interviewed / possibly arrested etc, but not actually considered Guilty until they plead, or are tried and found to be guility..
So I guess it's the same, if an off duty PC sees something he believe's to be amiss, and provides a statement. Just becuase the PC believe's it's wrong / an offence, doesn't mean it definitely is, as That's a decision that's in the hands of the beak...
It's also worth considering that, just because the guy is a copper, he still has the right to make a statement to Police if he believe's he is the victim of an offence. By retrospectively making a statement, and getting someone else to do the interview, rather than pulling out a warrant card and nicking Dave on the spot, you could argue he has done the correct thing, in order to avoid a conflict of interest..
This is all academic, though. The only thing that matters here, is that the correct evidence is presented to the court from both sides, and that the right decision is reached.. :y
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if an off duty Police Officer (I appreciate they are never off duty as such, much like me) can take such actions without supporting evidence / witness etc they could say almost anything
Very true, but ultimately, if said officer was a bad apple, they wouldn't give a monkeys about fabricating / stretching the truth about something which they saw ON duty... so being off duty probably wouldn't have much distinction, in that instance..
I guess, in the same principle, any member of public could walk into a Police station and a statement / make a potentially false allegation against someone for a criminal offence. They'd then be interviewed / possibly arrested etc, but not actually considered Guilty until they plead, or are tried and found to be guility..
So I guess it's the same, if an off duty PC sees something he believe's to be amiss, and provides a statement. Just becuase the PC believe's it's wrong / an offence, doesn't mean it definitely is, as That's a decision that's in the hands of the beak...
It's also worth considering that, just because the guy is a copper, he still has the right to make a statement to Police if he believe's he is the victim of an offence. By retrospectively making a statement, and getting someone else to do the interview, rather than pulling out a warrant card and nicking Dave on the spot, you could argue he has done the correct thing, in order to avoid a conflict of interest..
This is all academic, though. The only thing that matters here, is that the correct evidence is presented to the court from both sides, and that the right decision is reached.. :y
Good point...... not looked at it that way :-\
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How about calming and stopping the speculation? Understand that all are trying to help, give the benefit of our experiences, which is a great OOF thing, but if I were the OP I might wish I'd never posted anything and just sit back until more information comes to light. Seems it's getting all a bit tense.
What's done is done, and what will happen ... well .... nobody knows yet.
Note to Blackviper - good luck with it. Chances are very little will happen
I appreciate where your coming from, but so far, because of my original post I have had pointers on websites that will offer help and fellow OOfer's who are in the know and who have offered their expertise. Had I not posted, I'd be worse off, IMO.
At the end of the day I listen to any advice I'm given as it's given with the best of intentions and with the benefit of that persons life experience. On top of all that, I have the last decision on whether I take, leave it or do nothing. Either way, I am grateful :y
I'm not knocking your post as such, just pointing out why I posted in the first place :)
And thank you for your support too, much appreciated mate :y
Certainly understand and respect why you posted (would have done the same thing myself) - and can also see that you have lots of potentially valuable advice. All good stuff. Just "felt" a bit doom and gloomy from some of the posts, when it could all turn out to be very little. And of course, the decision(s) lie with you.
Guess I was just trying to say, "hey mate, don't worry about it too much right now". In fact don't worry about it at all. Worry is a useless emotion ;)
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How about calming and stopping the speculation? Understand that all are trying to help, give the benefit of our experiences, which is a great OOF thing, but if I were the OP I might wish I'd never posted anything and just sit back until more information comes to light. Seems it's getting all a bit tense.
What's done is done, and what will happen ... well .... nobody knows yet.
Note to Blackviper - good luck with it. Chances are very little will happen
I appreciate where your coming from, but so far, because of my original post I have had pointers on websites that will offer help and fellow OOfer's who are in the know and who have offered their expertise. Had I not posted, I'd be worse off, IMO.
At the end of the day I listen to any advice I'm given as it's given with the best of intentions and with the benefit of that persons life experience. On top of all that, I have the last decision on whether I take, leave it or do nothing. Either way, I am grateful :y
I'm not knocking your post as such, just pointing out why I posted in the first place :)
And thank you for your support too, much appreciated mate :y
Certainly understand and respect why you posted (would have done the same thing myself) - and can also see that you have lots of potentially valuable advice. All good stuff. Just "felt" a bit doom and gloomy from some of the posts, when it could all turn out to be very little. And of course, the decision(s) lie with you.
Guess I was just trying to say, "hey mate, don't worry about it too much right now". In fact don't worry about it at all. Worry is a useless emotion ;)
Trying not too, just some days it's easier than others :( Just had a rough week and to top it all my little boy broke his collar bone last night....so I'm a bit grumpy, sorry :-[
Cheers again though :y
Ps. Wish I was back in Germany. Loved Christmas in Trier, the markets are amazing. Will have to go back one day :)
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well I got free legal advice for dangerous driving even though it was reduced to careless. check it out online mate. careless or undue care do not but dangerous driving qualifies for free legal advice and representation.
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I can't understand how they can take it this far considering it's just one word against another. There is no other witnesses, no video footage etc??
I can't believe you've gotten to the age of 40 without realizing how these things work! I had it sussed from the age of around 14.
It's not 'just one word against another', it's your word against a Police Officer's, a Magistrate will nearly always side with the police.
If all else fails, I'll make it worth while if they decide to find me guilty. Never been one for going down quietly. If they think a stuck up bloke wearing a girls wig who knows nothing about me, bothers me.... I'll take him out on a tour of Helmand the next time I go.... I'll take the copper too and use him as a mine detector!
That copper is making my blood boil...argghhhhhhhhhhhh.......
Mate, if you go into court with that attitude then you probably will get sent down for contempt, as said, wear your best clothes and don't forget to thank the Magistrates for your points and fine and also apologize for taking up their valuable time.
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Dave, I was always lead to believe that an officers version of events would be the true one but mine simply wasnt. Remember just because he is a police officer he is not always right. if you believe you have done nothing wrong you need legal advice and dangerous driving is an offence for which you get free legal advice. so do it quickly.
James, I only wanted him to PM me as I cant remember the cops surname only his first which I wont post on here.
Now that I didn't know about! :o
As far as I am aware, and I do little magistrates court work these days, Dangerous Driving is one of the offences you are entitled to speak to the Duty Solicitor about if/when you attend court for your first hearing, or if you attend a Police Station to give a formal interview.
If memory serves me correctly any offence that carries the potential sentence of custody applies.
At the Police Station Formal Interview, the first part of the interview will be the explanation of the Caution, the information about Free Legal Advice, and the explanation about the tapes. If you opt for the legal advice the duty solicitor will be given "disclosure" by the interviewing officer. You are at liberty to ask for that in writing. The "disclosure" details exactly what they wish to interview you about, and as such stops them "fishing" or info.
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I can't understand how they can take it this far considering it's just one word against another. There is no other witnesses, no video footage etc??
I can't believe you've gotten to the age of 40 without realizing how these things work! I had it sussed from the age of around 14.
It's not 'just one word against another', it's your word against a Police Officer's, a Magistrate will nearly always side with the police.
If all else fails, I'll make it worth while if they decide to find me guilty. Never been one for going down quietly. If they think a stuck up bloke wearing a girls wig who knows nothing about me, bothers me.... I'll take him out on a tour of Helmand the next time I go.... I'll take the copper too and use him as a mine detector!
That copper is making my blood boil...argghhhhhhhhhhhh.......
Mate, if you go into court with that attitude then you probably will get sent down for contempt, as said, wear your best clothes and don't forget to thank the Magistrates for your points and fine and also apologize for taking up their valuable time.
Your dead right and I wouldn't actually do it, although I'd love to. I'll be in a suit and tie, that goes without saying, but there is no way I'm going to take this without a fight. I'm NOT guilty of the offence and I'll stand in court and plead my defence. But on your last point, I agree with you, it would be respectful to do so, as they represent the law of the land :y
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Get legal representation. Look into the advice given here WRT free representation :y
Most of all take a breath and keep calm, you mustn't let your emotions cloud your judgement. I know that's easy to say when you aren't on the receiving end of this treatment, but you must be calm and collected. As said (and pretty obvious IMHO) best suit and tie, polite and courteous at all times :y
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Surely you will still be entitled to free advice from a solicitor, don't they give the 1st half hour free?
If not how about the legal side of Citizens Advice. they may help.....
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Surely you will still be entitled to free advice from a solicitor, don't they give the 1st half hour free?
If not how about the legal side of Citizens Advice. they may help.....
I had to use a solicitor recently and the first consultation was free. It was enough time to go through the case with the guy and for him to go through my options. Have a phone round your local solicitors.
As mentioned above, it's worth going to Citizens Advice as they'll know the ins and outs of Legal Aid, if you believe the Daily Mail they throw it about like confetti!!! ::)
Don't just assume that you can't afford legal advice as you'll probably get help.... Good Luck!!! :y :y :y :y
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How about calming and stopping the speculation? Understand that all are trying to help, give the benefit of our experiences, which is a great OOF thing, but if I were the OP I might wish I'd never posted anything and just sit back until more information comes to light. Seems it's getting all a bit tense.
What's done is done, and what will happen ... well .... nobody knows yet.
Note to Blackviper - good luck with it. Chances are very little will happen
I appreciate where your coming from, but so far, because of my original post I have had pointers on websites that will offer help and fellow OOfer's who are in the know and who have offered their expertise. Had I not posted, I'd be worse off, IMO.
At the end of the day I listen to any advice I'm given as it's given with the best of intentions and with the benefit of that persons life experience. On top of all that, I have the last decision on whether I take, leave it or do nothing. Either way, I am grateful :y
I'm not knocking your post as such, just pointing out why I posted in the first place :)
And thank you for your support too, much appreciated mate :y
Certainly understand and respect why you posted (would have done the same thing myself) - and can also see that you have lots of potentially valuable advice. All good stuff. Just "felt" a bit doom and gloomy from some of the posts, when it could all turn out to be very little. And of course, the decision(s) lie with you.
Guess I was just trying to say, "hey mate, don't worry about it too much right now". In fact don't worry about it at all. Worry is a useless emotion ;)
Trying not too, just some days it's easier than others :( Just had a rough week and to top it all my little boy broke his collar bone last night....so I'm a bit grumpy, sorry :-[
Cheers again though :y
Ps. Wish I was back in Germany. Loved Christmas in Trier, the markets are amazing. Will have to go back one day :)
Yes, markets are fun, indeed. Apparently Strasbourg knocks spots off other though. Need to get there one day. Look me up as and when you have the urge to sink some Gluhwein :y