Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Auto Addict on 18 November 2011, 09:03:23

Title: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 18 November 2011, 09:03:23
As some of you know, the car was fine after fitting the poly bushes at Newent.

Just recently, it's developed a wanderlust, and a bit of a clunk turning left or right.

Any ideas please?
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Lazydocker on 18 November 2011, 09:20:53
Re-check the wishbone bolts are correctly torqued
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 18 November 2011, 09:35:37
Re-check the wishbone bolts are correctly torqued

Will do :y
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Lazydocker on 18 November 2011, 09:41:28
Re-check the wishbone bolts are correctly torqued

Will do :y
Not saying that will be what it is, but I seem to remember TBE started with a knock and it turned out to be loose WB bolts ;)
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: TheBoy on 18 November 2011, 14:53:54
Re-check the wishbone bolts are correctly torqued

Will do :y
Not saying that will be what it is, but I seem to remember TBE started with a knock and it turned out to be loose WB bolts ;)
No knock on mine, just a progressively worse pull under braking.


Polyed the MV6 last week, that has developed a wander, I suspect in that case, the tyres have gone over the edge...  ...but I'm determined to get 10k from them ;D
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 18 November 2011, 14:55:59
Tyres are fine, brand new in August.
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: TheBoy on 18 November 2011, 14:59:41
Tyres are fine, brand new in August.
Quality, or known tramliners?
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 18 November 2011, 15:03:33
Tyres are fine, brand new in August.
Quality, or known tramliners?

Kumos, didn't tramline when fitted, didn't tramline after polys, started about a week ago.
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Kevin Wood on 18 November 2011, 15:22:16
Re-check the wishbone bolts are correctly torqued

Will do :y
Not saying that will be what it is, but I seem to remember TBE started with a knock and it turned out to be loose WB bolts ;)
No knock on mine, just a progressively worse pull under braking.


Polyed the MV6 last week, that has developed a wander, I suspect in that case, the tyres have gone over the edge...  ...but I'm determined to get 10k from them ;D

Could be that the poly bushes have affected the geometry slightly?
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Michael2.6 on 18 November 2011, 15:56:54
Are the poly bushes a good fit in the wishbones

none standard parts sometimes are a poor fit

try a tyre lever inbetween the sub frame and the wishbones to check for play
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: TheBoy on 18 November 2011, 16:26:35
Tyres are fine, brand new in August.
Quality, or known tramliners?

Kumos, didn't tramline when fitted, didn't tramline after polys, started about a week ago.
I'd check for anything not being torqued up right, or other play developed...
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Michael2.6 on 18 November 2011, 21:30:51
Have you tried the track rod ends
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: feeutfo on 18 November 2011, 21:39:23
Why where Polly fitted? Failed front bushes? If so was it set up once Polly fitted?

How many miles on tyres, and since Newent...?

If wishbones are original clunk "may" be wb ball joint play. Needs a jack up and check over though, could be a number of things.
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: feeutfo on 18 November 2011, 21:40:07
Also...When does the wander occur?
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 19 November 2011, 07:53:46
Why where Polly fitted? Failed front bushes? If so was it set up once Polly fitted?

How many miles on tyres, and since Newent...?

If wishbones are original clunk "may" be wb ball joint play. Needs a jack up and check over though, could be a number of things.

Poly bushes were fitted because it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Tyres have done about 2k, no sign of wear.

Have a feeling the buypartsby front nearside wheel bearing may want replacing (fitted at Newent 2010) as Mark found some play in it earlier on this year - he did tighten it up.

Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: TheBoy on 19 November 2011, 08:30:10
AA - afraid you do need to jack it up and look for play.  Vagueness in steering is often idler or trackrod related, but as chrisgixer says, wishbone balljoint, or even rear front wishbone bush can play a part.

The clunk may provide a clue, is it as the suspension loads, and does it doe it turning both ways? Conversely, it could be a red herring, such as top strut bearing fubared.


Some tyres do seem to lose directional stability once a couple of k have been scrubbed off them - chrisgixer and his Falkens being a prime example - but not heard that with KU31 (is it KU31 you got?)
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 19 November 2011, 08:50:00
Kuhmo Ecsta SPT KU31 99W.

Clunk happens on turn both ways.
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: TheBoy on 19 November 2011, 08:51:27
Kuhmo Ecsta SPT KU31 99W.
Not heard any handling problems with them (apart from my experience on the Rover - grip well in wet or dry, but no feedback on when you are about to overcook it ;D)
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 19 November 2011, 08:56:28
Trying to phone you on your landline, but your not answering.
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: TheBoy on 19 November 2011, 13:09:21
Trying to phone you on your landline, but your not answering.
And I told you via PM exactly the reason I wasn't answering.

How dare you disturb a man on the throne  ;D.  Was a bit of an ordeal this morning, I over indulged in a few sherberts with a mate, and followed it up with a nasty Naga Chicken....
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: noel on 19 November 2011, 17:20:36
a nasty Naga Chicken   nice  ;D ;D

Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: feeutfo on 19 November 2011, 22:27:30
Hmm, no further forward here, are we???

Is the wander felt through the wheel as a pull? Or is there no sensation of a pull through the steering but your still steering to correct?
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 20 November 2011, 08:03:14
Hmm, no further forward here, are we???

Is the wander felt through the wheel as a pull? Or is there no sensation of a pull through the steering but your still steering to correct?

Not there all the time, only on certain roads, can feel the 'pull' through the steering wheel.

Will try and see if I can find anything today.
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Michael2.6 on 20 November 2011, 08:34:41
Have you checked the power steering rack for wear

you have checked everything else but not this
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Jimbob on 20 November 2011, 08:38:46
what rack?  its a steering box :y
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Michael2.6 on 20 November 2011, 09:31:49
You are right jimbob it is a box

got a omega on the ramps just had a look now.

Is the car pulling to left or right when braking. I think its a steering problem,
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: 05omegav6 on 20 November 2011, 09:53:47
Clonking might be the drop links :-\ cheapie one don't seem to take kindly to poly bushing. Just about to fit second pair in 10k. (droplinks that is). still at £10 each, they're only £1 every 1000 miles. ::)
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 20 November 2011, 10:26:36
Straight as a die when braking.
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Michael2.6 on 20 November 2011, 11:55:28
What other investigations have you done to solve this problem.

what have you checked and not checked

Post up
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 21 November 2011, 09:09:18
Pop it up one evening and we can give it the once over.  :y
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 21 November 2011, 12:08:44
Pop it up one evening and we can give it the once over.  :y

Cheers Mark.

What evening would suit you?
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 24 November 2011, 13:30:56
Well, I've improved it a bit, managed to tighten the nearside poly bush up, about a complete turn.

Can't get my torque wrench in to check if it's the right torque though, suspect that both sides need tightening further.

Can't find any play, but I ain't that good these days.
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: feeutfo on 24 November 2011, 16:49:39
Has somebody got a dodgy torque wrench? Or are these coming undone on thier own?

If you can get it high enough the bolts should be 120nm + angle tighten 30 degrees + 15.
but you knew that I'm sure. :)
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Kevin Wood on 24 November 2011, 16:58:31
Has somebody got a dodgy torque wrench? Or are these coming undone on thier own?

If you can get it high enough the bolts should be 120nm + angle tighten 30 degrees + 15.
but you knew that I'm sure. :)

Yep, beats me how they come undone after that. I wonder if re-using the bolts is a bad idea?

Or that the inserts in the poly bushes "give" a little after installation? :-\

Have all the loose bolts been on poly-bushed cars?
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 24 November 2011, 16:59:51
Has somebody got a dodgy torque wrench? Or are these coming undone on thier own?

If you can get it high enough the bolts should be 120nm + angle tighten 30 degrees + 15.
but you knew that I'm sure. :)

We couldn't get a torque wrench in at Newent, when we fitted them, JB tightened them as best he could, can't get my torque wrench in, no room with a socket on the end.
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 24 November 2011, 17:02:11
Pop round on Friday  :y
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 24 November 2011, 17:07:24
Pop round on Friday  :y

 :y

About 6?

Thanks Mark.
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: feeutfo on 24 November 2011, 17:16:16
Has somebody got a dodgy torque wrench? Or are these coming undone on thier own?

If you can get it high enough the bolts should be 120nm + angle tighten 30 degrees + 15.
but you knew that I'm sure. :)

Yep, beats me how they come undone after that. I wonder if re-using the bolts is a bad idea?

Or that the inserts in the poly bushes "give" a little after installation? :-\

Have all the loose bolts been on poly-bushed cars?
the Oof ones have. The one I saw last werkend was failed oe bushes, but that car had been worked on by eejits sadly. Suspect they just left it loose as all other settings seemed correct, although tightened wheels hanging. Hence failed bushes in two months. It did have a bad knock over bumps and the bolt had worn. Should replace bolt really.

AA is it worth buying new bolts before visiting Mark? If you don't need them I'll buy them off you...?
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 24 November 2011, 17:30:28
New bolts?

Are they readily available?
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: YZ250 on 24 November 2011, 18:10:10
New bolts?

Are they readily available?

Think you'll find they are Part No. 90468500 for the bolt and 90538056 for the nuts.  :y  Works out about a fiver for each side. I'll be checking mine soon although I did torque them up as per guide. Would thread lock be any good in this instance.  :-\

Regards
Alan
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: feeutfo on 24 November 2011, 18:15:37
If the bolts move in the subframe they wear a lump out the side of the bolt itself. Depends how badly loose the bolts where if new are needed, although you dint mention any knocking or noises so might be ok, who knows.

I'm sure a dealer will advise availability.


If the bolts are proved to work loose then yes a thread lock would be wise. Although there us a suggestion they may not have been fully tight to start with.
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 24 November 2011, 18:16:31
New bolts?

Are they readily available?

Think you'll find they are Part No. 90468500 for the bolt and 90538056 for the nuts.  :y  Works out about a fiver for each side. I'll be checking mine soon although I did torque them up as per guide. Would thread lock be any good in this instance.  :-\

Regards
Alan

As they are angle tightened, it makes sense to replace them.

A trip to the stealers tomorrow.
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: TheBoy on 24 November 2011, 18:30:50
Has somebody got a dodgy torque wrench? Or are these coming undone on thier own?

If you can get it high enough the bolts should be 120nm + angle tighten 30 degrees + 15.
but you knew that I'm sure. :)

Yep, beats me how they come undone after that. I wonder if re-using the bolts is a bad idea?

Or that the inserts in the poly bushes "give" a little after installation? :-\

Have all the loose bolts been on poly-bushed cars?
TBE's were loose, they were reused bolts and nuts.  All of a sudden, one day, its started pulling like a bitch under braking.

Silver Bullet hasn't been driven enough since polybushing, will have to check in 2 or 3 weeks.
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: YZ250 on 24 November 2011, 19:02:49
Has somebody got a dodgy torque wrench? Or are these coming undone on thier own?

If you can get it high enough the bolts should be 120nm + angle tighten 30 degrees + 15.
but you knew that I'm sure. :)

We couldn't get a torque wrench in at Newent, when we fitted them, JB tightened them as best he could, can't get my torque wrench in, no room with a socket on the end.

This could be an issue. My torque wrench is quite flat on the end and I can just get a shallow socket in to tighten the front bush nut. I wonder how many have torqued the hex bolt head due to access problems instead of the nut and does it really matter.  :-\  Age old question, does bolt head tightening friction reduce torque compared to tightening the nut. In other words, is some of the torque lost by the bolt head 'digging in'.  :-\

All I do know is, laying under my car tightening the nut to 120nm plus the extra degrees, with a ring spanner wedged against my knee to stop the bolt turning, you realise how tight 120nm is when you've only got an arms length to do it in.  ;D ;D

Regards
Alan
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 24 November 2011, 19:40:17
Has somebody got a dodgy torque wrench? Or are these coming undone on thier own?

If you can get it high enough the bolts should be 120nm + angle tighten 30 degrees + 15.
but you knew that I'm sure. :)

We couldn't get a torque wrench in at Newent, when we fitted them, JB tightened them as best he could, can't get my torque wrench in, no room with a socket on the end.

This could be an issue. My torque wrench is quite flat on the end and I can just get a shallow socket in to tighten the front bush nut. I wonder how many have torqued the hex bolt head due to access problems instead of the nut and does it really matter.  :-\  Age old question, does bolt head tightening friction reduce torque compared to tightening the nut. In other words, is some of the torque lost by the bolt head 'digging in'.  :-\

All I do know is, laying under my car tightening the nut to 120nm plus the extra degrees, with a ring spanner wedged against my knee to stop the bolt turning, you realise how tight 120nm is when you've only got an arms length to do it in.  ;D ;D

Regards
Alan

Exactly!
Title: Re: Wanderlust
Post by: Auto Addict on 25 November 2011, 20:41:24
Thanks Mark, tightened up the wishbones, nearside back bolt needed tightening too.

Drives like it should now :y

Didn't fit new bolts, they're on factory order only.