Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Ian_D on 01 December 2011, 14:18:41
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For about 3 years, the Omega (3.0 V6) has slowly been using water - however I've never been able to trace where its gone! We are talking maybe a litre or so every 2000 miles or so. (however it was random, sometimes it wouldn't use any for a couple of months)
Now it has all of a sudden just started drinking the stuff!
Couple of weeks ago I went from York to Leicester, and it used about a litre of water (this was a 120 mile trip - sat at 70ish mph all the way) and then around half a litre on the way back home (sat around 80 mph ish).
Again, there was no trace of where the water was going... (checked for leaks, checked oil etc.. all fine)
However, today I have just topped the coolant up (again!), and the dreaded dip stick is just starting to show signs of water in the oil (the oil colour is ever so slightly pale in colour).
What would cause this? There is NO oil in the water, however there IS water in the oil.
Does this rule out the Oil Cooler, since theres no oil in the water?
I hope its not the head gasket...
Any ideas guys?
Cheers
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Is it a 1998 3.0?
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Different car but same principal maybe- my cav was randomly using water, it would be fine for weeks then would empty the header tank two or three times in succession then be fine again. It was like this for a couple of thousand miles then started to sound like a Subaru. It was then that I decided to pull it to bits to find head gasket failure :( I was also finding my coolant system was over pressurising and blowing coolant out the cap, leaving a staining under the bonnet, are you getting anything like? Maybe worth getting the header sniffed for emissions?
Maybe someone who knows these better will suggest otherwise but I think it's the dreaded...
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Water in oil - headgasket failure. ;)
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Water in oil - headgasket failure. ;)
Sometimes with an oil cooler failure, you WILL get some water going back into the oil, but generally this only occurs after it's made a load of sludge in the coolant, so doubt it's relevent in this case.
Is there a chance it could just be some condensation given the time of year? Worth an oil change, and monitoring it?
Worth draining it out, so you can look at it in a bowl?
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Yes Tunnie, it is the dreaded 1998 3.0 which IIRC these were more common to HG failure :-(
James, She had fresh oil in her les than 2000 miles ago. (nothing looked odd with the old oil) however maybe the oil was boiling the water off due to it been a slow leak?, and now its leaking more coolant into the oil + the colder weather etc, its not? Just a thought?
Forgot to mention that it had the mayo on the Oil cap (before oil change) - I put this down to condensation + short runs and told myself 'its fine' !! ;D
Then a week ago, I removed the long plastic bit which the Oil cap fits onto to see if the Mayo would clear up... It hasn't - granted the oil cap doesn't look anywhere near as bad as it did, but the mayo is still there :-(
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Afraid to say sounds HG :(
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Water in oil - headgasket failure. ;)
Sometimes with an oil cooler failure, you WILL get some water going back into the oil, but generally this only occurs after it's made a load of sludge in the coolant, so doubt it's relevent in this case.
Is there a chance it could just be some condensation given the time of year? Worth an oil change, and monitoring it?
Worth draining it out, so you can look at it in a bowl?
Not quite right.
Under normal running, oil is at a much greater pressure than the water so the oil is forced into the coolant system. After turn off the oil pressure quickly drops but the sealed coolant system remains pressurised for a period fo time and hence water can (and does) get forced into the sump. This will happen right from the first stage failure :y
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Afraid to say sounds HG :(
I think it does :-(
Typical, I've just ordered 3 tires from the net (in post now), Just bought 6 Months tax last night, it needs 4 wheel alignment doing asap, and is also over due a back box... and ontop of all that i'm currently without a job :'( :'( :'( Looks like im going to have a good xmas! ;D :-X
So, do I break her up (which I really dont want to do if I can help it). Or fix it. However, an R reg Elite with 130k on the clock possibly isn't worth spending the cash on (which I dont really have to spend!). Now if... and its a big IF, I did the headgaskets myself, what costs are involved?
I assume I would need 2x head gasket kits + 2x exhaust manifold gaskets + inlet gaskets and a cambelt kit. (then try and borrow a locking kit of someone too!) I really dont know if I can be bothered if im honest.
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Its what its worth to you really, I spent a fair few quid getting my 3.2 up to spec after it had been stood for a year. Worth it because of the lack of rust anywhere underneath and over-all condition.
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Water in oil - headgasket failure. ;)
Sometimes with an oil cooler failure, you WILL get some water going back into the oil, but generally this only occurs after it's made a load of sludge in the coolant, so doubt it's relevent in this case.
Is there a chance it could just be some condensation given the time of year? Worth an oil change, and monitoring it?
Worth draining it out, so you can look at it in a bowl?
Not quite right.
Under normal running, oil is at a much greater pressure than the water so the oil is forced into the coolant system. After turn off the oil pressure quickly drops but the sealed coolant system remains pressurised for a period fo time and hence water can (and does) get forced into the sump. This will happen right from the first stage failure :y
Thats what I thought Mark, and theres no trace of Oil in the water. Its also had a new oil cooler fitted before I bought the car (around 5 years ago) so I assume its got a stainless cooler in it now?
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i would have thought that seeing the market as it is "crap" it would be more worthwhile in the long run to break the car for parts, cash in your tax, then use money to get another mig, at least then the new tyres wont have gone to waste :y
end of the day though it is how much you are attatched to the car and whether you consider the expense of headgasket repair on top of cambelt etc etc etc to be worthwhile :-\
just my opinion
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Its what its worth to you really, I spent a fair few quid getting my 3.2 up to spec after it had been stood for a year. Worth it because of the lack of rust anywhere underneath and over-all condition.
Well thats the other issue, been a 98, shes starting to show signs of rust (rear arches + doors) - Now I dont mind doing this myself, but everywhere I go, nobody can match the paint! Its magic grey. And its always a shade to pale, or too purple or something - tried several paint suppliers now too (2k paint too), plan was to try again next year!
If the bodywork was mint, I would be fixing it without a doubt. If its the silver 3.2 your on about, If that was mine, the I too would be willing to spend on it as I know it would last another good few years... however with mine, lets face it, another year or two max... and it would be sent to the sky :'(
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Afraid to say sounds HG :(
I think it does :-(
Typical, I've just ordered 3 tires from the net (in post now), Just bought 6 Months tax last night, it needs 4 wheel alignment doing asap, and is also over due a back box... and ontop of all that i'm currently without a job :'( :'( :'( Looks like im going to have a good xmas! ;D :-X
So, do I break her up (which I really dont want to do if I can help it). Or fix it. However, an R reg Elite with 130k on the clock possibly isn't worth spending the cash on (which I dont really have to spend!). Now if... and its a big IF, I did the headgaskets myself, what costs are involved?
I assume I would need 2x head gasket kits + 2x exhaust manifold gaskets + inlet gaskets and a cambelt kit. (then try and borrow a locking kit of someone too!) I really dont know if I can be bothered if im honest.
PM sent.
If you can get it to Gloucester, I'll do it for an exceptional fee, part of which will go to H4H.
I also have a set of EX manifold gaskets here (MLS genuine ones) which I'll chuck in free to help you out.
Cheers,
James
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What is it about 98 cars that are prone to head gasket failure? Change of design or a bad batch or something? Need to check the year on mine but it's an r reg, 98 ish?? Or 97 I Cant remember now. But even so why are they known as bad?
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No reason has been found iirc.
Just experience here shows more model year 98 3.0 HG failures than any other by a long way.
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Afraid to say sounds HG :(
I think it does :-(
Typical, I've just ordered 3 tires from the net (in post now), Just bought 6 Months tax last night, it needs 4 wheel alignment doing asap, and is also over due a back box... and ontop of all that i'm currently without a job :'( :'( :'( Looks like im going to have a good xmas! ;D :-X
So, do I break her up (which I really dont want to do if I can help it). Or fix it. However, an R reg Elite with 130k on the clock possibly isn't worth spending the cash on (which I dont really have to spend!). Now if... and its a big IF, I did the headgaskets myself, what costs are involved?
I assume I would need 2x head gasket kits + 2x exhaust manifold gaskets + inlet gaskets and a cambelt kit. (then try and borrow a locking kit of someone too!) I really dont know if I can be bothered if im honest.
PM sent.
If you can get it to Gloucester, I'll do it for an exceptional fee, part of which will go to H4H.
I also have a set of EX manifold gaskets here (MLS genuine ones) which I'll chuck in free to help you out.
Cheers,
James
Thanks James,
If needed I can get the car there (either driving it - providing it doesnt get worse, or if it 'breaks down' I just call the AA! :-X
Thats actually where I bought the car from! Whitminster IIRC... ;D
If you want to drop me another PM with a ball park figure, I will have a think about it.
For what its worth, is it worth sticking in some radweld / forte type stuff?
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Also just had a quick read of the HG how to (Thanks again James)
It doesn't look 'that' bad if im honest. :-X
I didn't know there was enough room to remove the heads while leaving the exhaust manifolds on.
Guess it depends on costs still though... :-\
What anyones experience of changing the HG's on the V6?
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Also just had a quick read of the HG how to (Thanks again James)
It doesn't look 'that' bad if im honest. :-X
I didn't know there was enough room to remove the heads while leaving the exhaust manifolds on.
Guess it depends on costs still though... :-\
What anyones experience of changing the HG's on the V6?
If you're half handy with a spanner, have a go! :)
I don't think you'll refuse my offer though ;D :y
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Its what its worth to you really, I spent a fair few quid getting my 3.2 up to spec after it had been stood for a year. Worth it because of the lack of rust anywhere underneath and over-all condition.
Well thats the other issue, been a 98, shes starting to show signs of rust (rear arches + doors) - Now I dont mind doing this myself, but everywhere I go, nobody can match the paint! Its magic grey. And its always a shade to pale, or too purple or something - tried several paint suppliers now too (2k paint too), plan was to try again next year!
If the bodywork was mint, I would be fixing it without a doubt. If its the silver 3.2 your on about, If that was mine, the I too would be willing to spend on it as I know it would last another good few years... however with mine, lets face it, another year or two max... and it would be sent to the sky :'(
Reading through quickly, given your location, i'd get Daz onto new HG gaskits, shame to waiste your cash spent so far, how many miles on it?
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I did think about stripping everything down upto the head bolts stage, then let Daz do the scary bits (heads off, and back on + cambelt etc) to try and keep costs down ;D
Theres about 133k on her. Engine has a slightly noisy tappet when started from cold which only lasts about 5-10 seconds (so im not worried about that), otherwise she still runs fine, and pulls like a train.
James has PMed me with a fantastic offer, however the more I think of it, the costs involved in geting the car to/from his make this route out of budget really.
I may just have to be brave and crack on with it myself. I've got all the tools I need (apart from the timming tools) Argh! I Dunno...! :(
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Is it a 1998 3.0?
That fault is coolant to outside of block leak.
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Also just had a quick read of the HG how to (Thanks again James)
It doesn't look 'that' bad if im honest. :-X
I didn't know there was enough room to remove the heads while leaving the exhaust manifolds on.
Guess it depends on costs still though... :-\
What anyones experience of changing the HG's on the V6?
I think further diagnosis needs to be done before committing to ripping the heads off
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2 years ago mine started leaking water n was putting bit of white smoke out of the exhaust. When i removed the spark plugs to do a compression test i noticed one was alot cleaner then the other 5. Might be something to look out for. I was short of cash at the time so only done the one bank. the other has lasted up untill about a month ago. Hope this helps :y
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Also just had a quick read of the HG how to (Thanks again James)
It doesn't look 'that' bad if im honest. :-X
I didn't know there was enough room to remove the heads while leaving the exhaust manifolds on.
Guess it depends on costs still though... :-\
What anyones experience of changing the HG's on the V6?
I think further diagnosis needs to be done before committing to ripping the heads off
Yes I agree TB, Its strange that its been using water since I got it (must admit, it would last a couple of months before it needed topping up back then and it would only be a top up rather than a 'refill the coolant bottle almost!')
It does give out a lot more steam than every other car i've seen. Even in summer, it gives out steam after a 50 mile run. It always has done.
If it is the HG, I cant understand why its taking sooo long to fail properly....surely it cant have been 'on its way out' for 4 years / 30k miles?
If its not the HG, then how else could the water get into the Oil? ::)
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2 years ago mine started leaking water n was putting bit of white smoke out of the exhaust. When i removed the spark plugs to do a compression test i noticed one was alot cleaner then the other 5. Might be something to look out for. I was short of cash at the time so only done the one bank. the other has lasted up untill about a month ago. Hope this helps :y
Thanks- a good idea I guess. However if it was leaking into the cylinder, I would expect the coolant to be pressurising and spitting it out / bubbles in coolant etc, which it isn't doing. :-\
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Mine was a smoke joe for a couple of months but never lost power. Just drunk water in the middle of london once. So quick refill with bottle and the fountains in trafalga square. Got home to investigate.