Never been much of a fan of Cameron but he dug his heels in and refused to be bullied by that little sh1t Sarkozy and big bruiser Merkel last night.A touch of Bulldog spirit. Well done Dave,and plenty more of the same please. :y
;)
Let us not forget though that if the Blair company had been there instead then it would have been signed up to without hesitation.
The sooned we get off that sinking ship the better. Funny though that little Hungary has taken the same route and others now are starting to hesitate and go to referendums as they begin to realise that it will be the end of their own countries independant choices on interest rates to the doubtless benefit of those despicable snail eaters and hermans! Is their joint song titled 'If I ruled the world'?
Go on Cam - good on you and lets see more of it............Those who disagree cannot truly beEnglishBritish at all. :y
Hmmm. Not sure we know the full story on this as yet//...
There was no treaty on the table to veto. So what, exactly, did he veto?//...
Methinks he may have been set up as a patsy//...
Sadly, I don't think Dave understands how the EU works.
Hmmm. Not sure we know the full story on this as yet//...
There was no treaty on the table to veto. So what, exactly, did he veto?//...
Methinks he may have been set up as a patsy//...
Sadly, I don't think Dave understands how the EU works.
That's more like it. :y
I think the Prime Minister, assisted by the Dangerous Dems, (accompanied by their running dogs) attended this gathering expecting to carry some weight - especially with Germany. Sadly they should have known that we were, as a nation, always likely to founder up on the rocks of Europe; the question (for anyone having a modicum of commonsense and strategic awareness) was always one of when and not if.
I would imagine that the Europe, as envisaged by those at the top table, is one of conformity and obedience – to have it any other way (as has been evident up to the moment) always risked the venture failing at the first hurdle. For an experiment like this to succeed, the disparate nations within the association must be bound by common rules and like policy so that strategic decisions are taken on the basis of one mind.
yep.. its obvious..but thats under "normal" conditions which became history now, there are moments that every agrement is left aside and everyone takes (or have to) care of self (because sacrifices solve nothing) , which world economic conditions at the moment is going towards..
Britain, and her traditional reluctance to wholeheartedly throw her lot into this venture over the years, was always considered to be the thorn in the paw of ‘Brussels’ and, as such, always destined to exist on the outside looking in as there is no room for question or dissent within the ‘club’
So, as far as I can see, all this determination and baring of teats (if we believe the PM and MSM) or bluster (if we look at it from a realistic perspective) may well back fire on those who have accidentally dipped their toes into the uncharted waters that wait outside the safety of the harbour provided by the EU:
I dont agree, its hard to say EU provides safe harbor for UK.. may be awalking field of mines ;D
a union of capitalist countries is a big contradiction by the nature of them :D ;D however, I can say as the world shifted to global capitalism, all the citizens of member countries now become the duck to pluck.. however, its easy to estimate this peaceful sharing wont last long ::)
One has to have the strength of will, the capability of command, and the expertise – all assisted by the intention to get down to practical politics within a country (this one for starters) - to survive on one’s own in a world where becoming part of a larger group seems to be the option of choice for many.
Sadly, I don’t think many in our administration possess that strength – I’ll go further and say that the infrastructure as it now exists within our country (local government, social services, system of justice, commercial concerns and so on) has been bled dry from the wounds inflicted by ‘Brussels’ to the point of where any remaining casualties within any such group attempted to formulate policy generated at home or stand up to be counted as those to whom we look towards to actually ‘run’ the country (with all the difficulty and self-sacrifice it requires) would fail, as those essential qualities no longer exist in the form needed to go forward from this impasse.
I'm glad to witness other countries citizens also see the reality.. :y
I think ‘we’ blundered into this without a plan ‘B’ and now that the trap has been sprung – set up by those in the ‘Union’/Germany
yep..it was a trap..but German citizens are also unaware whats happening.. even Merkel, is just a passive player in a game where she didnt own..And if it was possible, she would not hesitate to run out if permitted.. ;D
who never had regard for this country – many in our own mongrel administration have voided their bowels at the thought of being cut loose from the safety of the ‘club’ and a political life dictated by oppression, double-dealing, bribery, financial reward and the obfuscation of high political dialogue.
We have, in my view, been done up like kippers if we expected to carry on through this present crisis by dictating terms while holding onto the half-assed attitude to ‘Brussels’ that we evidently do – in the light of that, will we have the brains and brawn to survive on the outside?
“Britain didn’t want a deal. It pretended it wanted one, but it didn’t. If Cameron got some kind of safeguard for the City adopted by the 27 he would then have to sign up to a new treaty. That would then have to go through the British Parliament, which would split the Conservative Party. So Cameron bid for something he knew was impossible, a complete opt-out of financial regulation which nobody was ever going to agree to.
“It’s very useful for Cameron to say, ‘Sarkozy was so unreasonable, what could we do?’ But the result of no deal is that the City of London has no protection and will probably be screwed in the future.”
On some level, both Cameron and Sarkozy have walked away with a result that will please their voters at home. But the price has been immense - a blow has been dealt to their own relationship, and indeed, to the future of the euro itself.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/8947576/EU-Treaty-bashing-the-Brits-is-an-old-habit-in-France-that-still-boosts-a-politicians-popularity.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/8947576/EU-Treaty-bashing-the-Brits-is-an-old-habit-in-France-that-still-boosts-a-politicians-popularity.html)
There could well be an element of truth in this observation. ;) :(
These treaty negotiations had little to do with saving the Euro (which will probably fail anyway) and everything to do with closer EU integration. Had Cameron signed up then Britain would have lost yet another slice of soveriegnty and we wouldn't have got a referendum as they would have claimed it was an adjustment to an existing treaty..... >:(
The only 'protection' The City needs is from the dead hand of over regulation and EU bureaucracy, which in my view Cameron achieved. Bankers in New York, Singapore and Hong Kong would have been rubbing their hands at the extra business coming their way from London had The UK become part of this proposed fiscal union.
Cameron has been attacked in Europe for acting solely in the UK national interest, but what the hell were Sarkozy and Merkel doing?? When the Euro breaks up, the new Deuchmark will again become the reserve currency of Europe and will be a very strong currency, making German goods more expensive and hurting Germanys exports. France's banking industry is extremely shaky and is probably the one needing protection which Sarkozy failed in achieving!!
Well done Dave!! :y :y :y
“Britain didn’t want a deal. It pretended it wanted one, but it didn’t. If Cameron got some kind of safeguard for the City adopted by the 27 he would then have to sign up to a new treaty. That would then have to go through the British Parliament, which would split the Conservative Party. So Cameron bid for something he knew was impossible, a complete opt-out of financial regulation which nobody was ever going to agree to.
“It’s very useful for Cameron to say, ‘Sarkozy was so unreasonable, what could we do?’ But the result of no deal is that the City of London has no protection and will probably be screwed in the future.”
On some level, both Cameron and Sarkozy have walked away with a result that will please their voters at home. But the price has been immense - a blow has been dealt to their own relationship, and indeed, to the future of the euro itself.
There could well be an element of truth in this observation. ;) :(
These treaty negotiations had little to do with saving the Euro (which will probably fail anyway) and everything to do with closer EU integration. Had Cameron signed up then Britain would have lost yet another slice of soveriegnty and we wouldn't have got a referendum as they would have claimed it was an adjustment to an existing treaty..... >:(
The only 'protection' The City needs is from the dead hand of over regulation and EU bureaucracy, which in my view Cameron achieved. Bankers in New York, Singapore and Hong Kong would have been rubbing their hands at the extra business coming their way from London had The UK become part of this proposed fiscal union.
Cameron has been attacked in Europe for acting solely in the UK national interest, but what the hell were Sarkozy and Merkel doing?? When the Euro breaks up, the new Deuchmark will again become the reserve currency of Europe and will be a very strong currency, making German goods more expensive and hurting Germanys exports. France's banking industry is extremely shaky and is probably the one needing protection which Sarkozy failed in achieving!!
Well done Dave!! :y :y :y
The only 'protection' The City needs is from the dead hand of over regulation and EU bureaucracy, which in my view Cameron achieved. Bankers in New York, Singapore and Hong Kong would have been rubbing their hands at the extra business coming their way from London had The UK become part of this proposed fiscal union.
I totally agree with you there Den! :y There is far too much reliance on The City and the financial services industry as a whole in this country, and ideally what we need is a more balanced economy in which all sectors thrive. ie manufacturing, agriculture, fisheries, mining, renewable energy, technology etc
However, like it or not financial services is an important part of our economy and as such it needs to remain competitive on the global scene, not just in Europe. Everybody loves to kick the bankers at the moment, mainly because it's perceived that the current shitstorm is all their fault, that's another argument though. ::) I have friends who work for the big banks in London and they have all had major works done to their houses in the last couple of years. Thus their bonuses are trickling down through the economy to the builders, the kitchen fitters, landscape gardeners etc etc ;)
So what of manufacturing and the manufacturers in this country? As you say, we were once a great manufacturing nation and the well worn phrase is that we were the workshop of the world!! and it's true..... So what happened? Apart from a lack of support from successive governments and too much power and vested interests in the unions, the manufacturers themselves couldn't wait to break off to the Far East or Eastern Europe where labour and life is cheap and there is little or no regulation! Now that's capricious!! ::) ::) ::)
Thus their bonuses are trickling down through the economy to the builders, the kitchen fitters, landscape gardeners etc etc ;)
May I concur with that statement. I recently met a chap who is self-employed and does a lot of work specialising in high-end landscaping. He relies upon a wealthy client base and is perplexed when people talk about smashing the bankers and so on. We live in a very complex society in which the various income levels interact in a largely mutually-beneficial way. Of course, there are always those too lazy, or ignorant, to consider that the impact of suddenly crushing the high flyers would have on ordinary grafters at lower income levels.
Manufacturing in this country was always going to go South as new markets abroad began to offer cheaper labour and cheaper raw materials. The only way this could have been stopped would have been to follow a policy of protectionism. Maybe that's not always a BAD thing from an economic standpoint, but mere mention of it normally goes down like a sack of spuds politically. As it is, UK manufacturing has concentrated on high-tech and high-value items, something which we are really rather good at. ;)
Thus their bonuses are trickling down through the economy to the builders, the kitchen fitters, landscape gardeners etc etc ;)
May I concur with that statement. I recently met a chap who is self-employed and does a lot of work specialising in high-end landscaping. He relies upon a wealthy client base and is perplexed when people talk about smashing the bankers and so on. We live in a very complex society in which the various income levels interact in a largely mutually-beneficial way. Of course, there are always those too lazy, or ignorant, to consider that the impact of suddenly crushing the high flyers would have on ordinary grafters at lower income levels.
Manufacturing in this country was always going to go South as new markets abroad began to offer cheaper labour and cheaper raw materials. The only way this could have been stopped would have been to follow a policy of protectionism. Maybe that's not always a BAD thing from an economic standpoint, but mere mention of it normally goes down like a sack of spuds politically. As it is, UK manufacturing has concentrated on high-tech and high-value items, something which we are really rather good at. ;)
Yes it's nice for those in the service industries and suchlike to feed from the tree of plenty, but does the fruit fall very far from that tree?
If we are to support more than these few people in this country we certainly need to have a much more diverse industry base so that people far from these centres of financial excellence can be employed in other industrial disciplines.
I don’t think the financial sector has been all that many people would wish to be as the acquisition of profit before anything else seems to be the over riding cause for being - as has been the inclination for business to gravitate towards places where their cost base can be reduced in the continued desire to improve the bottom line.
A an aside,I watched the BBC coverage of this issue on their news channel last night.Imo it was nothing short of disgraceful.It took for granted the fact that Cameron had just made a huge error and had left the UK alone,isolated and in deep peril. It was treated with the kind of solemnity usually reserved for the sudden death of a Monarch or similar.
I dont think I have ever seen a more shamelessly biased broadcast in my life. >:(
Thus their bonuses are trickling down through the economy to the builders, the kitchen fitters, landscape gardeners etc etc ;)
May I concur with that statement. I recently met a chap who is self-employed and does a lot of work specialising in high-end landscaping. He relies upon a wealthy client base and is perplexed when people talk about smashing the bankers and so on. We live in a very complex society in which the various income levels interact in a largely mutually-beneficial way. Of course, there are always those too lazy, or ignorant, to consider that the impact of suddenly crushing the high flyers would have on ordinary grafters at lower income levels.
Manufacturing in this country was always going to go South as new markets abroad began to offer cheaper labour and cheaper raw materials. The only way this could have been stopped would have been to follow a policy of protectionism. Maybe that's not always a BAD thing from an economic standpoint, but mere mention of it normally goes down like a sack of spuds politically. As it is, UK manufacturing has concentrated on high-tech and high-value items, something which we are really rather good at. ;)
Yes it's nice for those in the service industries and suchlike to feed from the tree of plenty, but does the fruit fall very far from that tree?
If we are to support more than these few people in this country we certainly need to have a much more diverse industry base so that people far from these centres of financial excellence can be employed in other industrial disciplines.
I don’t think the financial sector has been all that many people would wish to be as the acquisition of profit before anything else seems to be the over riding cause for being - as has been the inclination for business to gravitate towards places where their cost base can be reduced in the continued desire to improve the bottom line.
Come on, Den. The financial sector provides 10% of GNP. Yes, that is significant, but it also means that 90% comes from elsewhere!!! ;) ;)
Thus their bonuses are trickling down through the economy to the builders, the kitchen fitters, landscape gardeners etc etc ;)
May I concur with that statement. I recently met a chap who is self-employed and does a lot of work specialising in high-end landscaping. He relies upon a wealthy client base and is perplexed when people talk about smashing the bankers and so on. We live in a very complex society in which the various income levels interact in a largely mutually-beneficial way. Of course, there are always those too lazy, or ignorant, to consider that the impact of suddenly crushing the high flyers would have on ordinary grafters at lower income levels.
Manufacturing in this country was always going to go South as new markets abroad began to offer cheaper labour and cheaper raw materials. The only way this could have been stopped would have been to follow a policy of protectionism. Maybe that's not always a BAD thing from an economic standpoint, but mere mention of it normally goes down like a sack of spuds politically. As it is, UK manufacturing has concentrated on high-tech and high-value items, something which we are really rather good at. ;)
Yes it's nice for those in the service industries and suchlike to feed from the tree of plenty, but does the fruit fall very far from that tree?
If we are to support more than these few people in this country we certainly need to have a much more diverse industry base so that people far from these centres of financial excellence can be employed in other industrial disciplines.
I don’t think the financial sector has been all that many people would wish to be as the acquisition of profit before anything else seems to be the over riding cause for being - as has been the inclination for business to gravitate towards places where their cost base can be reduced in the continued desire to improve the bottom line.
Come on, Den. The financial sector provides 10% of GNP. Yes, that is significant, but it also means that 90% comes from elsewhere!!! ;) ;)
In that case Nick should we be at all concerned about knocking a few heads together in the financial sector?
Of course if we had a broader based economy relying less on the volatile nature of the financial and service sectors and more on making things to sell by way of manufacturing tangible products, maybe we could work our way out of this in better order.
High earners in any industry tend to enjoy their wealth, so yes I'd say that the fruit from the tree of plenty does fall far and wide. Take footballers for example who like to have ostentatious displays of their treasure.... They'll drive flash cars, admittedly from Germany or Italy, providing jobs nonetheless in sales and servicing, they'll buy a palace from another footballer, and gut and refit it because the Mrs dosn't like the colour of the marble and yes the new marble will be Italian of course, but the guys fitting it will be from Cheshire or Surrey......
Lucky they're not all like me, because if I was a high earner I'd stay in my little terraced house counting my money!! Bah!! :)
Thus their bonuses are trickling down through the economy to the builders, the kitchen fitters, landscape gardeners etc etc ;)
May I concur with that statement. I recently met a chap who is self-employed and does a lot of work specialising in high-end landscaping. He relies upon a wealthy client base and is perplexed when people talk about smashing the bankers and so on. We live in a very complex society in which the various income levels interact in a largely mutually-beneficial way. Of course, there are always those too lazy, or ignorant, to consider that the impact of suddenly crushing the high flyers would have on ordinary grafters at lower income levels.
Manufacturing in this country was always going to go South as new markets abroad began to offer cheaper labour and cheaper raw materials. The only way this could have been stopped would have been to follow a policy of protectionism. Maybe that's not always a BAD thing from an economic standpoint, but mere mention of it normally goes down like a sack of spuds politically. As it is, UK manufacturing has concentrated on high-tech and high-value items, something which we are really rather good at. ;)
Yes it's nice for those in the service industries and suchlike to feed from the tree of plenty, but does the fruit fall very far from that tree?
If we are to support more than these few people in this country we certainly need to have a much more diverse industry base so that people far from these centres of financial excellence can be employed in other industrial disciplines.
I don’t think the financial sector has been all that many people would wish to be as the acquisition of profit before anything else seems to be the over riding cause for being - as has been the inclination for business to gravitate towards places where their cost base can be reduced in the continued desire to improve the bottom line.
Come on, Den. The financial sector provides 10% of GNP. Yes, that is significant, but it also means that 90% comes from elsewhere!!! ;) ;)
In that case Nick should we be at all concerned about knocking a few heads together in the financial sector?
Of course if we had a broader based economy relying less on the volatile nature of the financial and service sectors and more on making things to sell by way of manufacturing tangible products, maybe we could work our way out of this in better order.
That's a non-sequitur, Den. The fact that it "only" represents 10% of GNP, does not absolve it from regulation and behavioural improvement. :y
Thus their bonuses are trickling down through the economy to the builders, the kitchen fitters, landscape gardeners etc etc ;)
May I concur with that statement. I recently met a chap who is self-employed and does a lot of work specialising in high-end landscaping. He relies upon a wealthy client base and is perplexed when people talk about smashing the bankers and so on. We live in a very complex society in which the various income levels interact in a largely mutually-beneficial way. Of course, there are always those too lazy, or ignorant, to consider that the impact of suddenly crushing the high flyers would have on ordinary grafters at lower income levels.
Manufacturing in this country was always going to go South as new markets abroad began to offer cheaper labour and cheaper raw materials. The only way this could have been stopped would have been to follow a policy of protectionism. Maybe that's not always a BAD thing from an economic standpoint, but mere mention of it normally goes down like a sack of spuds politically. As it is, UK manufacturing has concentrated on high-tech and high-value items, something which we are really rather good at. ;)
Yes it's nice for those in the service industries and suchlike to feed from the tree of plenty, but does the fruit fall very far from that tree?
If we are to support more than these few people in this country we certainly need to have a much more diverse industry base so that people far from these centres of financial excellence can be employed in other industrial disciplines.
I don’t think the financial sector has been all that many people would wish to be as the acquisition of profit before anything else seems to be the over riding cause for being - as has been the inclination for business to gravitate towards places where their cost base can be reduced in the continued desire to improve the bottom line.
Come on, Den. The financial sector provides 10% of GNP. Yes, that is significant, but it also means that 90% comes from elsewhere!!! ;) ;)
In that case Nick should we be at all concerned about knocking a few heads together in the financial sector?
Of course if we had a broader based economy relying less on the volatile nature of the financial and service sectors and more on making things to sell by way of manufacturing tangible products, maybe we could work our way out of this in better order.
That's a non-sequitur, Den. The fact that it "only" represents 10% of GNP, does not absolve it from regulation and behavioural improvement. :y
I think it's obvious that any regulation in that sector has been poorly applied or completely ignored by those instituatuions and I suppose only time will tell id there has been a change of heart where the behavioral profile of those employed in it.
I won't be holding by breath for such a change of heart as logic seldom applies where there's money to be made.
High earners in any industry tend to enjoy their wealth, so yes I'd say that the fruit from the tree of plenty does fall far and wide. Take footballers for example who like to have ostentatious displays of their treasure.... They'll drive flash cars, admittedly from Germany or Italy, providing jobs nonetheless in sales and servicing, they'll buy a palace from another footballer, and gut and refit it because the Mrs dosn't like the colour of the marble and yes the new marble will be Italian of course, but the guys fitting it will be from Cheshire or Surrey......
Lucky they're not all like me, because if I was a high earner I'd stay in my little terraced house counting my money!! Bah!! :)
Yes it's nice for those trades to have such work Tigg - but in relation to the country as a whole, any distribution of wealth from such a narrow source can never hope to add anything of a substantial nature to the equation - I suppose that's why a not inconsiderable swathe of the country seldom gets a sniff of such work from those people who have substantial disposable income.
I would think we need to have people in regular dependable employment as there are only so many marble clad dwellings or high-end vehicles around to provide a constancy of employment to those who install them or service them. There's nothing wrong with exploiting such a market but what I would like to see is a broader based economy in place to take up the lion’s share of employment opportunity.
High earners in any industry tend to enjoy their wealth, so yes I'd say that the fruit from the tree of plenty does fall far and wide. Take footballers for example who like to have ostentatious displays of their treasure.... They'll drive flash cars, admittedly from Germany or Italy, providing jobs nonetheless in sales and servicing, they'll buy a palace from another footballer, and gut and refit it because the Mrs dosn't like the colour of the marble and yes the new marble will be Italian of course, but the guys fitting it will be from Cheshire or Surrey......
Lucky they're not all like me, because if I was a high earner I'd stay in my little terraced house counting my money!! Bah!! :)
Yes it's nice for those trades to have such work Tigg - but in relation to the country as a whole, any distribution of wealth from such a narrow source can never hope to add anything of a substantial nature to the equation - I suppose that's why a not inconsiderable swathe of the country seldom gets a sniff of such work from those people who have substantial disposable income.
I would think we need to have people in regular dependable employment as there are only so many marble clad dwellings or high-end vehicles around to provide a constancy of employment to those who install them or service them. There's nothing wrong with exploiting such a market but what I would like to see is a broader based economy in place to take up the lion’s share of employment opportunity.
I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you here Den about Britains financial industry and the over reliance on it. However we find ourselves in a juxtaposition whereby the very industry through deregulation, has brought the economy to it's knees, but we still need that very industry to be successful to help drag ourselves out of the mire. ::)
As I've pointed out, The City needs to be competitive on the global scene not just in Europe, and in my view Merkozy were aiming to blunt that competitiveness, to the advange of Frankfurt and Paris's Banks..... >:(
High earners in any industry tend to enjoy their wealth, so yes I'd say that the fruit from the tree of plenty does fall far and wide. Take footballers for example who like to have ostentatious displays of their treasure.... They'll drive flash cars, admittedly from Germany or Italy, providing jobs nonetheless in sales and servicing, they'll buy a palace from another footballer, and gut and refit it because the Mrs dosn't like the colour of the marble and yes the new marble will be Italian of course, but the guys fitting it will be from Cheshire or Surrey......
Lucky they're not all like me, because if I was a high earner I'd stay in my little terraced house counting my money!! Bah!! :)
Yes it's nice for those trades to have such work Tigg - but in relation to the country as a whole, any distribution of wealth from such a narrow source can never hope to add anything of a substantial nature to the equation - I suppose that's why a not inconsiderable swathe of the country seldom gets a sniff of such work from those people who have substantial disposable income.
I would think we need to have people in regular dependable employment as there are only so many marble clad dwellings or high-end vehicles around to provide a constancy of employment to those who install them or service them. There's nothing wrong with exploiting such a market but what I would like to see is a broader based economy in place to take up the lion’s share of employment opportunity.
I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you here Den about Britains financial industry and the over reliance on it. However we find ourselves in a juxtaposition whereby the very industry through deregulation, has brought the economy to it's knees, but we still need that very industry to be successful to help drag ourselves out of the mire. ::)
As I've pointed out, The City needs to be competitive on the global scene not just in Europe, and in my view Merkozy were aiming to blunt that competitiveness, to the advange of Frankfurt and Paris's Banks..... >:(
One must remember that the blame for the economy being on its knees (and this applies even more so to other countries in the EZ) cannot just be placed on banking practices, but rather on governments spending too much. We currently have a sovereign debt crisis, not a mortgage crisis. ;)
We currently have a sovereign debt crisis
I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you here Den about Britains financial industry and the over reliance on it. However we find ourselves in a juxtaposition whereby the very industry through deregulation, has brought the economy to it's knees, but we still need that very industry to be successful to help drag ourselves out of the mire. ::)
As I've pointed out, The City needs to be competitive on the global scene not just in Europe, and in my view Merkozy were aiming to blunt that competitiveness, to the advange of Frankfurt and Paris's Banks..... >:(
I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you here Den
I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you here Den about Britains financial industry and the over reliance on it. However we find ourselves in a juxtaposition whereby the very industry through deregulation, has brought the economy to it's knees, but we still need that very industry to be successful to help drag ourselves out of the mire. ::)
As I've pointed out, The City needs to be competitive on the global scene not just in Europe, and in my view Merkozy were aiming to blunt that competitiveness, to the advange of Frankfurt and Paris's Banks..... >:(QuoteI don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you here Den
That's very sweet of you to say so Tigg. :-* :-* ;D
Yes, I can happily agree that we need that sector to be successful - what's the point in doing business any other way - I only hope that there's not too much reliance placed on it as there's a very substantial bill to settle for the years of risk taking and excess.
I’m just wondering on the perceived success or otherwise of the Square Mile and satellites, can figures be provided (not necessarily by you) to show just what contribution is forthcoming to the Treasury from those groups?
High earners in any industry tend to enjoy their wealth, so yes I'd say that the fruit from the tree of plenty does fall far and wide. Take footballers for example who like to have ostentatious displays of their treasure.... They'll drive flash cars, admittedly from Germany or Italy, providing jobs nonetheless in sales and servicing, they'll buy a palace from another footballer, and gut and refit it because the Mrs dosn't like the colour of the marble and yes the new marble will be Italian of course, but the guys fitting it will be from Cheshire or Surrey......
Lucky they're not all like me, because if I was a high earner I'd stay in my little terraced house counting my money!! Bah!! :)
Yes it's nice for those trades to have such work Tigg - but in relation to the country as a whole, any distribution of wealth from such a narrow source can never hope to add anything of a substantial nature to the equation - I suppose that's why a not inconsiderable swathe of the country seldom gets a sniff of such work from those people who have substantial disposable income.
I would think we need to have people in regular dependable employment as there are only so many marble clad dwellings or high-end vehicles around to provide a constancy of employment to those who install them or service them. There's nothing wrong with exploiting such a market but what I would like to see is a broader based economy in place to take up the lion’s share of employment opportunity.
I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you here Den about Britains financial industry and the over reliance on it. However we find ourselves in a juxtaposition whereby the very industry through deregulation, has brought the economy to it's knees, but we still need that very industry to be successful to help drag ourselves out of the mire. ::)
As I've pointed out, The City needs to be competitive on the global scene not just in Europe, and in my view Merkozy were aiming to blunt that competitiveness, to the advange of Frankfurt and Paris's Banks..... >:(
One must remember that the blame for the economy being on its knees (and this applies even more so to other countries in the EZ) cannot just be placed on banking practices, but rather on governments spending too much. We currently have a sovereign debt crisis, not a mortgage crisis. ;)QuoteWe currently have a sovereign debt crisis
For the benefit of this poor old ex-copper, how did that happen?
Sorry, Den, I missed this post earlier.
Basically, sovereign debt refers to the national budgets. Most nations these days have a deficit where income (largely, taxes) fails to meet public expenditure. Nations ("sovereigns") routinely issue bonds (known as Treasury gilts in the UK) to cover these deficits. Bonds are essentially IOUs, providing interest returns or yields if you buy them. The credit rating agencies, such as Moodys and S&P rate debt according to the likelihood of the bonds being repaid when they mature. For years, the European countries have enjoyed AAA ratings, meaning their debt is as safe as houses. Recently, though, the prospects for many EU countries has been downgraded, meaning that the chances of default are higher. To counteract this, the bonds that the countries need to issue to balance their books have carried ever-greater interest rates to attract buyers.
The problem, though, is that this sovereign debt has increased and many economies (especially the PIIGS, Portugal Italy, Irleand, Greece and Spain) are becoming so laden with debt, that no-one wants to lend them money - via bond purchase. Hence, the crisis goes on and they get downgraded further, with the possibility of some countries becoming so mired in debt they effectively go bankrupt.
Hope that's clearer! :y