Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: kcl on 02 January 2012, 09:35:09
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Posted some things about my steering a good while back but the issue is getting worse. The problem is when I turn to left there's a "heavy spot" in steering, like the PAS goes out for a millisecond. And it's pretty much on same exact position of steering wheel. Turning it back to right, no problems. And from straight to right, nothing. Only from straight to left and after around 1/8 turnd on steering wheel. PAS oil level is correct. No play found anywhere. Strut top bearings have not been opened so could it be them? I can not imagine how it could be the pump because it's only in a certain position of steering wheel. Can it be the steering box itself? How to tell? Would not prefer to randomly changing components, nor willing/able to pay any garage to check so any ideas are welcome.
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I would be disconnecting the track rod, then you can turn the wheel in mid air. This will confirm which bit of the assembly the heavy spot is on. Could be just a tight bit on the wishbone ball joint, or as you say, possibly the steering box itself.
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Thanks, how I never thought of that :y
One more thing: I tried it the front end jacked up, wheels free in the air, and in that situation there was no blind spot. So this might indicate towards ball joint and/or strut bearing... :-\
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With the steering wheel centred, do the pitman arm and idler point directly forwards?
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Will have to confirm that. If not, then what?
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Will have to confirm that. If not, then what?
You will get weird steering issues.
Track rods have to be adjusted with these in straight ahead position - I've seen some dimwits remove steeringwheel and reseat to straighten up what is a tracking issue :-X
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Will have to confirm that. If not, then what?
You will get weird steering issues.
Track rods have to be adjusted with these in straight ahead position - I've seen some dimwits remove steeringwheel and reseat to straighten up what is a tracking issue :-X
hmmm... that reminds me... I had the tracking adjusted in early summer and it MIGHT be that this problem has started then. But, being a man, memory is not that long... So my problem could be that steering wheel has not been straight, then it has been turned straight and then they adjusted track rods which has lead to situation where pitman arm and idler are not straight?
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Is there a UJ in the column, I cannot remember. If there is, this fault is typical of a dry and partially seized UJ. Try spraying the UJ with penetrating fluid followed by spray grease.
Alan
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Probably best to get it jacked up on stands and turn the road wheels through the steering by hand while feeling for jolts in top mounts or stiffness or jolts. See if you can feel/locate it that way. The top shock mounts will be unloaded so might help diagnosis if it's not present when jacked.
If checking top mounts it's possible to preserve the camber setting by leaving the stub axle bolted to the shock, but remove the stub axle from the wishbone and other gubbins instead.
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Probably best to get it jacked up on stands and turn the road wheels through the steering by hand while feeling for jolts in top mounts or stiffness or jolts. See if you can feel/locate it that way. The top shock mounts will be unloaded so might help diagnosis if it's not present when jacked.
If checking top mounts it's possible to preserve the camber setting by leaving the stub axle bolted to the shock, but remove the stub axle from the wishbone and other gubbins instead.
As I tried to describe, no stiff spot when wheels are off the ground.
alank46: thanks, I will check that also but sticking UJ would give blind spots to both directions ???
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You would have thought so, but in my experience the stickiness is usually only in one direction.
Alan
alank46: thanks, I will check that also but sticking UJ would give blind spots to both directions ???
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Probably best to get it jacked up on stands and turn the road wheels through the steering by hand while feeling for jolts in top mounts or stiffness or jolts. See if you can feel/locate it that way. The top shock mounts will be unloaded so might help diagnosis if it's not present when jacked.
If checking top mounts it's possible to preserve the camber setting by leaving the stub axle bolted to the shock, but remove the stub axle from the wishbone and other gubbins instead.
As I tried to describe, no stiff spot when wheels are off the ground.
Ok that "might" be a clue. Car on the floor then, bonnet up, while turning the steering through the trouble spot, do the top shock mounts turn smoothly? Or does it jump or look/feel notchy?
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Probably best to get it jacked up on stands and turn the road wheels through the steering by hand while feeling for jolts in top mounts or stiffness or jolts. See if you can feel/locate it that way. The top shock mounts will be unloaded so might help diagnosis if it's not present when jacked.
If checking top mounts it's possible to preserve the camber setting by leaving the stub axle bolted to the shock, but remove the stub axle from the wishbone and other gubbins instead.
As I tried to describe, no stiff spot when wheels are off the ground.
Ok that "might" be a clue. Car on the floor then, bonnet up, while turning the steering through the trouble spot, do the top shock mounts turn smoothly? Or does it jump or look/feel notchy?
Thanks, will chekc that this evening
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Ok, some updates: pitman arm and idler "seem" to point straight.
Wheels off the ground, nothin. Wheels on the ground, the stiff spot comes up. Both top shock mounts look to turn ok, some minor "squealing" is heard though, like rubber-to-metal- kind of sound.
And what I have noticed past two days, it is itermittent! Like this morning: at home, in the usual situation when I reverse to road and turn to left it was not present. But at work a few minutes later when parking, it's back.
I still can not believe it's the pump and do not want to think it's the box (and the box is über-reliable on Omegas) so IMHO it's either top strut bearing or lower ball joint?
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Have you done anything about the UJ yet?
Alan
P.S. I have had exactly this problem on 2 Reliant Scimitars and 2 Jaguar XJ-S's and in all four cases it was a semi seized UJ due to dried out grease (and rust in one case)
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Have you done anything about the UJ yet?
Alan
P.S. I have had exactly this problem on 2 Reliant Scimitars and 2 Jaguar XJ-S's and in all four cases it was a semi seized UJ due to dried out grease (and rust in one case)
Somehow I managed to forget that :-[ :-[ :-[
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Is there a UJ in the column, I cannot remember. If there is, this fault is typical of a dry and partially seized UJ. Try spraying the UJ with penetrating fluid followed by spray grease.
Alan
Any pictures of this UJ , is it easy enough to get to ...wouldnt mind checking mine also :y
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Struggling to see it being the Uj to be honest, could see it being a top mount bearing failure
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Slightly off topic but related enough to perhaps be of interest.
Steering on sons 300 tdi disco got a bit 'interesting' recently. Failed to self centre after corners, slightly heavy, bit notchy when steering. Replaced old tired steering damper with a De Carbon gas jobbie but fault still present.
Further short term remedy was knocking seven bells out the UJ's on the column assembly and some spray lube, pending replacement of the lower joint that was out in the muck and spray of a few thousand miles of on and off road use.
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Further short term remedy was knocking seven bells out the UJ's on the column assembly and some spray lube
;D :y
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The Omega coupling is nicely in the dry.
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Struggling to see it being the Uj to be honest, could see it being a top mount bearing failure
I believe the op has another thread re failed bushes, and intends fitting new wb's. So that's the wb ball joint sorted as well. Presumably turning the shock with wishbone removed would be a good time to check top shock mount?(although unloaded)
Or even remove the shock then top mount to inspect the internal baring for pits etc.
Leave the stub axle to shock bolts connected to preserve camber, for what its worth?
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Struggling to see it being the Uj to be honest, could see it being a top mount bearing failure
I believe the op has another thread re failed bushes, and intends fitting new wb's. So that's the wb ball joint sorted as well. Presumably turning the shock with wishbone removed would be a good time to check top shock mount?(although unloaded)
Or even remove the shock then top mount to inspect the internal baring for pits etc.
Leave the stub axle to shock bolts connected to preserve camber, for what its worth?
Also if removing stub axle while attached to the shock there will be need to remove the steering ball joint (tap from the top with a hammer) can check track rod ball joints are free then.
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Struggling to see it being the Uj to be honest, could see it being a top mount bearing failure
I believe the op has another thread re failed bushes, and intends fitting new wb's. So that's the wb ball joint sorted as well. Presumably turning the shock with wishbone removed would be a good time to check top shock mount?(although unloaded)
Or even remove the shock then top mount to inspect the internal baring for pits etc.
Leave the stub axle to shock bolts connected to preserve camber, for what its worth?
Also if removing stub axle while attached to the shock there will be need to remove the steering ball joint (tap from the top with a hammer) can check track rod ball joints are free then.
Thanks for the hints. Will fetch some wishbones and fit them during the weekend if SWMBO let's me ;D After reading what has been written here I think there are now only two options left: wb ball joint or top strut bearing.
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Struggling to see it being the Uj to be honest, could see it being a top mount bearing failure
I believe the op has another thread re failed bushes, and intends fitting new wb's. So that's the wb ball joint sorted as well. Presumably turning the shock with wishbone removed would be a good time to check top shock mount?(although unloaded)
Or even remove the shock then top mount to inspect the internal baring for pits etc.
Leave the stub axle to shock bolts connected to preserve camber, for what its worth?
Also if removing stub axle while attached to the shock there will be need to remove the steering ball joint (tap from the top with a hammer) can check track rod ball joints are free then.
Thanks for the hints. Will fetch some wishbones and fit them during the weekend if SWMBO let's me ;D After reading what has been written here I think there are now only two options left: wb ball joint or top strut bearing.
Let's hope so, and that the work that needs doing anyway will help solve the problem. With the above parts disconnected hopefully it should be possible to rule those out if nothing else. Best of luck. :)
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Struggling to see it being the Uj to be honest, could see it being a top mount bearing failure
I believe the op has another thread re failed bushes, and intends fitting new wb's. So that's the wb ball joint sorted as well. Presumably turning the shock with wishbone removed would be a good time to check top shock mount?(although unloaded)
Or even remove the shock then top mount to inspect the internal baring for pits etc.
Leave the stub axle to shock bolts connected to preserve camber, for what its worth?
Also if removing stub axle while attached to the shock there will be need to remove the steering ball joint (tap from the top with a hammer) can check track rod ball joints are free then.
Thanks for the hints. Will fetch some wishbones and fit them during the weekend if SWMBO let's me ;D After reading what has been written here I think there are now only two options left: wb ball joint or top strut bearing.
Let's hope so, and that the work that needs doing anyway will help solve the problem. With the above parts disconnected hopefully it should be possible to rule those out if nothing else. Best of luck. :)
Thanks :y
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Some updates: wishbones changed and they really needed to; right hand one had rear bush comletely loose, all other bushes were well shot. Had the struts off the car (yes, I dismantled the whole front end, camber was re-set by spirit level and feeler gauge, close enough for winter), replaced strut top bearings, put it all together and guess what: stilll the stiff point!!! However, when driving it yesterday it was not present, nor last night when I thought to slightly adjust the steering box... So, I'm off to MOT this week, let's see what they can find and I really can not imagine anything else related than the steering box itself but it's very hard to believe it would be the reason....
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If stiff point is straight ahead, or near to, could the steering box be over tight..?
Jyst a thought. Will re read more thoroughly thus evening if poss.
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If stiff point is straight ahead, or near to, could the steering box be over tight..?
Jyst a thought. Will re read more thoroughly thus evening if poss.
It's about one quarter turn or slightly less so thats also what I thought box being too tight... Am I wrong thinking that 1/8 turns could be enough when adjusting the box...?
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Its a case of very small adjustments until your happy, yes. Only affects straight ahead IF/PROVIDED the steering column is at 12 oclock and lines up with 12oclock on the steering box. If the track rods are set correctly then the tight point will then take out slight play at straight ahead position.
But iirc the pitman arm was described as straight ahead, so cant see it being intermitantly stiff at 3/9oclock position due to the designed tight spot tbh. :-\
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This is getting strange... The stiff spot has now gone, or it has not been there for five days. Funny thing is that it WAS present right after wb & strut bearing change but somehow it has gone now. Also I now finally have the engine in a non-leaking form, which is new to me :-[ No oil, no water from anywhere...so far... :D
My assumption for steering is that it was due destroyed wishbone bushes and/or balljoints but why on earth the blind spot was there still after new parts were fitted, that will remain a mystery.
Had it MOT'd yesterday, no claims, just a note from the man that rear brakes have imbalance of 17% but that will be chekced when I change to summer tyres again.