Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Omega_Dan on 06 January 2012, 16:36:27

Title: preparing for rust!
Post by: Omega_Dan on 06 January 2012, 16:36:27
I have a little blister under the n/s/r arch about the size of a penny. It hasnt cracked the paint and is not visible (yet) but its the only bit of rust on the car and i want to get it sorted in the next month or so. Just wondering what the best course of action would be to take to maintain my paintwork? Im a bit of a novice in this area ;)
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Johnny English on 06 January 2012, 16:57:19
Not sure it'll be a simple case. The rust is an underhand stuff you can see a small stain but a lot more you have to repair. Like a berg and its peak...
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Webby the Bear on 06 January 2012, 17:24:56
Dan,

IMHO I would pay a bodywork shop to do it.

You may have seen a little while ago my own attempt at sorting out a rusty wheel arch. I did an ok-ish job of filling and sanding but it still didnt look correct and coupled with the fact that when I resprayed it, it dried and looked awful. And because you have to try and ''feather'' the spray (blend it with the existing paintwork) you would have to cover a bigger area than the affected penny-size rust spot.

Mine has just come out the body shop. It cost £200 + VAT. However, for this the guy reshaped the wing and wheel arch where I'd filled it. He then reshaped the bumper where I'd caught it with the sander  ::) and then resprayed the bumper and the wheel arch.

A beautiful job he's done! I will post pics if you're interested.

Anyway, my point is that if you get it wrong it could escalate in to a world of problems.

Shop around in your area and get the best quote from the guys that give you confidence with what they say.

HTH  :y
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Webby the Bear on 06 January 2012, 17:27:17
Ps, I have before and after pics if you're interested.  :y
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: jtypecav on 06 January 2012, 17:31:22
Agree with Webby - I got a mate who owns a bodyshop to blow in the arches two years ago with a bit of filler as he owed me a favour. He said they would last a year and I got a couple out of them. You are looking at £150 a side if you need both doing at the lower end and still get a good job. I was loath to spend as mine is Gold! ..which is harder to blend! They now need doing properly. Does seem that the later facelifts last last a lot better on the rear arches!
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Webby the Bear on 06 January 2012, 17:37:09
Agree mate.

Also as Dan, like me, has mentioned he's a novice means that he prob won't have the right tools which means prob using the Halfords spray.....  which is shite! And you can't get an even spray
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: albitz on 06 January 2012, 17:38:06
Imo if it on the underside of the arch you can sort it easily yourself.After last winter the paint on the underside lip of both my rear arches had flaked and blistered. I cleaned of the loose paint etc. treated with rust neutraliser (Bilthamber is best although expensive), then carefully masked the area and sprayed the underside lip part with gravigaurd.Its the type of slightly crinkled finish you sometimes see on sills etc. to protect paint from chipping.Then sprayed original colour and lacquer on top of that. Peel the edge of masking tape back slightly to prevent an obvious step from forming.Taking your time and being patient is the key to a good finish.
I was well pleased with the finished job on mine and I dont expect any further problems as the gravigaurd will stop chipping/ flaking of paint which is where the rust would probably start. :y

Having said all that,if it extends out onto the visible area on the sides of the lip/ rear quarter it will be best to get a pro job done.Particularily as yours is a very nice example.But I would still remove the paint from the blister and treat with rust neutraliser straight away to stop it from spreading. :y
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Omega_Dan on 06 January 2012, 17:39:44
Agree mate.

Also as Dan, like me, has mentioned he's a novice means that he prob won't have the right tools which means prob using the Halfords spray.....  which is shite! And you can't get an even spray

Yeah i remember your thread mate and i know it was harder to get the results than you thought. I still have contact in the motortrade so i may give them a call. It probably wont show for a good 6 months i reckon but i just want to get it done.
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Omega_Dan on 06 January 2012, 17:41:46
Imo if it on the underside of the arch you can sort it easily yourself.After last winter the paint on the underside lip of both my rear arches had flaked and blistered. I cleaned of the loose paint etc. treated with rust neutraliser (Bilthamber is best although expensive), then carefully masked the area and sprayed the underside lip part with gravigaurd.Its the type of slightly crinkled finish you sometimes see on sills etc. to protect paint from chipping.Then sprayed original colour and lacquer on top of that. Peel the edge of masking tape back slightly to prevent an obvious step from forming.Taking your time and being patient is the key to a good finish.
I was well pleased with the finished job on mine and I dont expect any further problems as the gravigaurd will stop chipping/ flaking of paint which is where the rust would probably start. :y

It hasnt blistered the paint though albert. Would i stil be able to use the rust treatment as it isnt visible?. It is on the underside :)
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Webby the Bear on 06 January 2012, 17:43:13
Agree mate.

Also as Dan, like me, has mentioned he's a novice means that he prob won't have the right tools which means prob using the Halfords spray.....  which is shite! And you can't get an even spray

Yeah i remember your thread mate and i know it was harder to get the results than you thought. I still have contact in the motortrade so i may give them a call. It probably wont show for a good 6 months i reckon but i just want to get it done.

I'm the same mate. it was the only thing letting my car down! Other than that it's mint! I'm sure there are folk that wouldn't bother bearing in mind the age of our cars but if, like me, you want it mint then take it to the shop. And if you got contacts then happy days!!

Good luck Bud  :y :y :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Omega_Dan on 06 January 2012, 17:48:07
Agree mate.

Also as Dan, like me, has mentioned he's a novice means that he prob won't have the right tools which means prob using the Halfords spray.....  which is shite! And you can't get an even spray

Yeah i remember your thread mate and i know it was harder to get the results than you thought. I still have contact in the motortrade so i may give them a call. It probably wont show for a good 6 months i reckon but i just want to get it done.

I'm the same mate. it was the only thing letting my car down! Other than that it's mint! I'm sure there are folk that wouldn't bother bearing in mind the age of our cars but if, like me, you want it mint then take it to the shop. And if you got contacts then happy days!!

Good luck Bud  :y :y :y :y :y :y

Thats exactly it. The ammount of effort i have put in to the thing i think i will get it done properly.  all i have done to the blister is clean the area on and inside the arch and put some waxoyl on it. Just so my mind doesnt worry about it too much.
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Webby the Bear on 06 January 2012, 17:50:11
If you were to look at the car can you see the spot?
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Omega_Dan on 06 January 2012, 18:27:37
If you were to look at the car can you see the spot?

Not at all. only spotted it when i fitted the MV6 wheels a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: geoffr70 on 06 January 2012, 18:47:33
I had some blistering on the underside of my elites rear arches. It was a good 5mm away from the side so I did it myself.

I took the paint off and sanded the rust back to bare metal. I used kurust to treat it then a few coats of black hammerite, then underseal. Luckily for me it was only the underside, and the car is nocturno blue so the black isn't much of a contrast.

Not as good as a body shop but alot less money, and will save the arches for a long time yet. I always blast the inside of the arches when I wash the car as crud collects there, stays damp and promotes rust.

My mv6 had been professionally done before I got it, and is like brand new.
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Omega_Dan on 06 January 2012, 18:50:46
I had some blistering on the underside of my elites rear arches. It was a good 5mm away from the side so I did it myself.

I took the paint off and sanded the rust back to bare metal. I used kurust to treat it then a few coats of black hammerite, then underseal. Luckily for me it was only the underside, and the car is nocturno blue so the black isn't much of a contrast.

Not as good as a body shop but alot less money, and will save the arches for a long time yet. I always blast the inside of the arches when I wash the car as crud collects there, stays damp and promotes rust.

My mv6 had been professionally done before I got it, and is like brand new.

Id say it was about 5mm from the side too. That sounds like a very cost effective way of prolonging the life of the original paint.
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: albitz on 06 January 2012, 20:12:33
Imo if it on the underside of the arch you can sort it easily yourself.After last winter the paint on the underside lip of both my rear arches had flaked and blistered. I cleaned of the loose paint etc. treated with rust neutraliser (Bilthamber is best although expensive), then carefully masked the area and sprayed the underside lip part with gravigaurd.Its the type of slightly crinkled finish you sometimes see on sills etc. to protect paint from chipping.Then sprayed original colour and lacquer on top of that. Peel the edge of masking tape back slightly to prevent an obvious step from forming.Taking your time and being patient is the key to a good finish.
I was well pleased with the finished job on mine and I dont expect any further problems as the gravigaurd will stop chipping/ flaking of paint which is where the rust would probably start. :y

You will need to scrape the paint off where the rust is then sand the rust away as much as possible,then proceed as described earlier Dan.Painting rust killer on top of the paint wont kill the rust. My method is similar to Geoaffs other than using graviguard (which you paint the original colour over the top of) rather than hammerite.

It hasnt blistered the paint though albert. Would i stil be able to use the rust treatment as it isnt visible?. It is on the underside :)
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: omegod on 06 January 2012, 20:51:08
I had some blistering on the underside of my elites rear arches. It was a good 5mm away from the side so I did it myself.

I took the paint off and sanded the rust back to bare metal. I used kurust to treat it then a few coats of black hammerite, then underseal. Luckily for me it was only the underside, and the car is nocturno blue so the black isn't much of a contrast.

Not as good as a body shop but alot less money, and will save the arches for a long time yet. I always blast the inside of the arches when I wash the car as crud collects there, stays damp and promotes rust.

My mv6 had been professionally done before I got it, and is like brand new.

Seconded as I did the same and masked outer 3 mm of the arch lip, ground the surface rust off, rustkure, primed then undersealed the shit out of it, 3 yrs on it has not come back through! Often what looks like rust is just staining from rust further in and this will t cut off. mmight as well give it a go as there is no way I am spending bodyshop money on a miggy given what they are worth
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Omega_Dan on 06 January 2012, 20:52:23
cheers mate im going to have a go at it tomorrow. My brother is in the know more than me so going to do it at his house tomorrow after stopping off at halfords :)
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Omega_Dan on 06 January 2012, 20:55:46
I had some blistering on the underside of my elites rear arches. It was a good 5mm away from the side so I did it myself.

I took the paint off and sanded the rust back to bare metal. I used kurust to treat it then a few coats of black hammerite, then underseal. Luckily for me it was only the underside, and the car is nocturno blue so the black isn't much of a contrast.

Not as good as a body shop but alot less money, and will save the arches for a long time yet. I always blast the inside of the arches when I wash the car as crud collects there, stays damp and promotes rust.

My mv6 had been professionally done before I got it, and is like brand new.

Seconded as I did the same and masked outer 3 mm of the arch lip, ground the surface rust off, rustkure, primed then undersealed the shit out of it, 3 yrs on it has not come back through! Often what looks like rust is just staining from rust further in and this will t cut off. mmight as well give it a go as there is no way I am spending bodyshop money on a miggy given what they are worth

The cost of the bodyshop does make it difficult to consider as even with the extras and miles on my car id struggle to get £800 for it probably ::)
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Agemo on 06 January 2012, 22:38:05
If only the rear wings were bolted on  ::)
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: elitedave on 07 January 2012, 11:55:52
just filler and a paint wont sort it for long even a pro job. only way is to replace metal. there aint no replacment arch panels i know of for omega advalible

so only way to job proper is to cut em out and careful weld in some new metal very carefuly from another car that had decent arches
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: albitz on 07 January 2012, 15:34:44
If the problem has gone beyond surface corrosion, I would agree tend to agree. If no perforation of the metal - clean it off,treat with neutraliser, then repair cosmatically imo. :y
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Webby the Bear on 08 January 2012, 15:57:14
If you can't see it Dan, might be worth having a go at treating it yourself. Sorry mate didn't realise you couldn't actually see it! Mine was spread from underside right up to the top of the wheel arch outer.  :'(

If you do have a go make sure you properly cover up the good paintwork on the rest of the car... don't to extend the trouble further!  :y :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Omega_Dan on 08 January 2012, 17:09:35
Started the rust removal today. sanded down the area on both sides with a medium grade sanding block and small wire brush. Did the inner edge of the arch aswell until i broke the blister and removed most of the rust. To be fair to the car where wasnt alot at all. Applied Kurust and then re applied another 2 times.

Next is to sand off the Kurust and primed ready for paint followed by underseal.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j222/puma282/DSC_0008-1.jpg)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j222/puma282/DSC_0009-1.jpg)
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Webby the Bear on 08 January 2012, 17:31:43
Good to see it's well out of view mate! Good luck. Looking forward to pics if you can post each step... hopefully you make better job than me  ;D
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Omega_Dan on 08 January 2012, 17:33:00
will have it finished by tomorrow so will upload some more pics. :)
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Webby the Bear on 08 January 2012, 17:34:29
will have it finished by tomorrow so will upload some more pics. :)

 :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Omega_Dan on 08 January 2012, 18:44:25
Kurust did the job well. you can clearly see the difference. Back to a nice smooth metal surface. Had to clean the Kurust soloution off and sand it some more.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j222/puma282/DSC_0010.jpg)


Then added the primer to give as smooth finish as possible. Will give it another coat in the morning.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j222/puma282/DSC_0011.jpg)

The black marks are just a little left over underseal.
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Omega_Dan on 10 January 2012, 07:56:35
FURTHER UPDATE.


Well i think ive done an ok job.

After the filler dried i filled it again, waited to dry. Applied a spray of paint and then laquer , again when dry i applied alot of underseal to the inside of the arch as well as to the work i had done on the underside of the arch. may seem pointless painting it but thats just me.

Few finished pics, excusing my ugly mush ;D
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j222/puma282/DSC_0019.jpg)
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j222/puma282/DSC_0018-1.jpg)
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j222/puma282/DSC_0020.jpg)

I need to give it another coat of underseal when its dried and then we shall see in the coming months or hopefully years how good of a job i did ;)
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: dbr on 10 January 2012, 19:24:18
the arch rubbers that are on rover 216 can be cut down and put over the rear arch area as a prevention
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: robson on 10 January 2012, 19:48:32
Do these rubbers protect or just trap water
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 January 2012, 22:06:34
the arch rubbers that are on rover 216 can be cut down and put over the rear arch area as a prevention

Are these on the underside or on the outside?
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Omega_Dan on 10 January 2012, 22:28:24
All i did was spray underseal and level it off to protect the area (arch lip) and surroundings :)
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 January 2012, 22:30:25
All i did was spray underseal and level it off to protect the area (arch lip) and surroundings :)

Looks a good job so far mate. Keep up the good work  :y
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Omega_Dan on 10 January 2012, 22:44:43
Thats about it now mate. it had 2 coats of underseal on top of paint, primer and all the rust treatment and sanding so im happy
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 January 2012, 22:48:21
Thats about it now mate. it had 2 coats of underseal on top of paint, primer and all the rust treatment and sanding so im happy

And saved yourself some dough. Well done!  :y
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Omega_Dan on 10 January 2012, 22:53:35
Thats about it now mate. it had 2 coats of underseal on top of paint, primer and all the rust treatment and sanding so im happy

And saved yourself some dough. Well done!  :y

Indeed. Kit cost me a tenner and have plenty left over for any future jobs. Cant see any of the underseal either, especially as the car is lowered :)
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 January 2012, 23:03:36
Thats about it now mate. it had 2 coats of underseal on top of paint, primer and all the rust treatment and sanding so im happy

And saved yourself some dough. Well done!  :y

Indeed. Kit cost me a tenner and have plenty left over for any future jobs. Cant see any of the underseal either, especially as the car is lowered :)

 :y :y :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: dbr on 11 January 2012, 20:22:20
Do these rubbers protect or just trap water
They are ribbed and a tight fit. I put a grease in also for added protection. They push on over the join. The Rover they came off was rust free on its rear arch seams, so it looked like they did a good job. Part of me wishes I had done it when the arches were totally rust free. Waxoil down the rear inner wings. Its now 15 years old and still looking good.
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: omega3000 on 11 January 2012, 22:52:25
Good job there , thats all i do or did on my last one . Currently mine are quite bad with the outer edges flaking , grind it all back cut out any rot and DIY it the best i can .

Quote
Its now 15 years old and still looking good
Any picture of them rubber wheel arches on the mig  :y
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: Webby the Bear on 11 January 2012, 22:57:48
Good job there , thats all i do or did on my last one . Currently mine are quite bad with the outer edges flaking , grind it all back cut out any rot and DIY it the best i can .

Quote
Its now 15 years old and still looking good
Any picture of them rubber wheel arches on the mig  :y

yeah that would be good.  :y
Title: Re: preparing for rust!
Post by: omega3000 on 11 January 2012, 23:06:11
Ive had 3 omegas and all of them have had corroded rear wheel arches and the bottom of the rear doors both flakey paint , common on the rear door bottoms i know . Something that i know ill have to repair , pre facelift anyway  ::)