Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: millwall on 09 January 2012, 19:04:06
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I am getting extremly sick of the two tier UK, when the Scots can use UK money to subsidise their students and their prescriptions...
Also how the Scots MPs can vote on our laws, but we can't vote on theirs.. more Labour inequality....
Another Labour travesty...
So, part of me says, fck em and goodbye....
but then would it be better to stick together and be united albeit with a few changes im 50 50 at the moment thoughts please particuarly from any scotsmen :y
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I'm sure Westminster enjoys the taxes and duties paid by the Scots ;)
Personally, I think we are stronger as the UK, but fully understand their frustrations with decisions made in Westminster that only seem to benefit London people. I'm equally miffed with it...
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It does seem strange that at the same time we have devolution, but are also being forced into an EU superstate.
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I'm sure Westminster enjoys the taxes and duties paid by the Scots ;)
Personally, I think we are stronger as the UK, but fully understand their frustrations with decisions made in Westminster that only seem to benefit London people. I'm equally miffed with it...
I think you will find theres much much more £ flowing north than there is coming South.
Rightly or wrongly - Afaik taxpayers in London and an area of 50 or so miles around it subsidise the rest of the UK to a greater or lesser degree.
Personally,Im in favour of the union,on the condition that the Scottish/Welsh/N.I. parliaments are got rid off. At the moment. imo the pendulum has swung much to far in favour of the regions - prescriptions,uni fees etc.....
If we are to be a United Kingdom,we should all be governed by the mother of parliaments in Westminster, or call it a day and go our seperate ways with no alimony expected. Too much having cake and eating it presently imo.
Furthermore,very few decisions made in Westminster having an effect on Scotland, but Scottish MP,s sit at Westminster (as Prime minister until recently) and make decisions which apply in England,but not in Scotland - that is just plain wrong,unfair and completely undemocratic.
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No Scottish MPs in Westminster, Labour would never get in again, now after the damage the last bunch of charlatans have caused that sounds attractive. :y
An hours extra daylight in the evening. Now that sounds attractive. :y
The extra jobs created in rebuilding Hadrian's wall. A much better investment than HS2. ;D ;D ;D Now that sounds attractive. :y
But despite all of that we would miss you Scotland. The football and the rugby would not be quite the same. :'(
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I am getting extremly sick of the two tier UK, when the Scots can use UK money to subsidise their students and their prescriptions...
Also how the Scots MPs can vote on our laws, but we can't vote on theirs.. more Labour inequality....
Another Labour travesty...
So, part of me says, fck em and goodbye....
but then would it be better to stick together and be united albeit with a few changes im 50 50 at the moment thoughts please particuarly from any scotsmen :y
Its about time we screwed some cash back that b*t*h Thatcher shafted us up here north of the border then closed down our industries (Ravenscraig,Dalzeil,Leyland trucks Bathgate,Hilman Linwood etc)so you either like it or lump it :y
As for independance no chance were here to stay :-*
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if scotland want too be on their own let them do it...and they can take that poxy bank with them.. :y
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I am getting extremly sick of the two tier UK, when the Scots can use UK money to subsidise their students and their prescriptions...
Also how the Scots MPs can vote on our laws, but we can't vote on theirs.. more Labour inequality....
Another Labour travesty...
So, part of me says, fck em and goodbye....
but then would it be better to stick together and be united albeit with a few changes im 50 50 at the moment thoughts please particuarly from any scotsmen :y
Its about time we screwed some cash back that b*t*h Thatcher shafted us up here north of the border then closed down our industries (Ravenscraig,Dalzeil,Leyland trucks Bathgate,Hilman Linwood etc)so you either like it or lump it :y
As for independance no chance were here to stay :-*
Subsequent goverments have also dessimated English businesses as well - the last Labour lot were intend on wiping out all manufacturing in the entire UK...
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I am getting extremly sick of the two tier UK, when the Scots can use UK money to subsidise their students and their prescriptions...
Also how the Scots MPs can vote on our laws, but we can't vote on theirs.. more Labour inequality....
Another Labour travesty...
So, part of me says, fck em and goodbye....
but then would it be better to stick together and be united albeit with a few changes im 50 50 at the moment thoughts please particuarly from any scotsmen :y
Its about time we screwed some cash back that b*t*h Thatcher shafted us up here north of the border then closed down our industries (Ravenscraig,Dalzeil,Leyland trucks Bathgate,Hilman Linwood etc)so you either like it or lump it :y
As for independance no chance were here to stay :-*
Subsequent goverments have also dessimated English businesses as well - the last Labour lot were intend on wiping out all manufacturing in the entire UK...
Thats true. The poll tax was the final sore point up here. As for labour Fred Goodwin made sure Tony Blairs bank account was healthy.
God wheres Jeremy WankstainClarkson when you need him ::) :-X
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Let em get on with it .. fat salmon has it all under control >:(
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I am getting extremly sick of the two tier UK, when the Scots can use UK money to subsidise their students and their prescriptions...
Also how the Scots MPs can vote on our laws, but we can't vote on theirs.. more Labour inequality....
Another Labour travesty...
So, part of me says, fck em and goodbye....
but then would it be better to stick together and be united albeit with a few changes im 50 50 at the moment thoughts please particuarly from any scotsmen :y
Its about time we screwed some cash back that b*t*h Thatcher shafted us up here north of the border then closed down our industries (Ravenscraig,Dalzeil,Leyland trucks Bathgate,Hilman Linwood etc)so you either like it or lump it :y
As for independance no chance were here to stay :-*
That was 30 years ago,and was by no means confined to Scotland.The industries were also hoplessly uncompetitive,due in part at least, to militant unionism among the workforces,who thought their employers owed them a living and had no concern for the fact that huge payrises (and countless days of strikes to achieve them) made it impossible to compete in world markets and made the UK a laughing stock in the global industrial community.
It doesnt give anyone a right to believe they should be able to live of other peoples tax contributions today,imo.
United Kingdom,governed from Westminster,with the same rules for all citizens is the only fair and just way to proceed. ;)
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No Scottish MP's at Westminster now that would be a bonus. :) :) :y :y
The only down side I see is that the skirt wears might put an English duty on Edradour ;D ;D
When all is considered then The UK is better with them, as for Northern Ireland ::) ::) ::)
Same rules for all tho' them damn whities dividing to conquer :D :D
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I'm sure Westminster enjoys the taxes and duties paid by the Scots ;)
Personally, I think we are stronger as the UK, but fully understand their frustrations with decisions made in Westminster that only seem to benefit London people. I'm equally miffed with it...
Personally,Im in favour of the union,on the condition that the Scottish/Welsh/N.I. parliaments are got rid off. At the moment. imo the pendulum has swung much to far in favour of the regions - prescriptions,uni fees etc.....
If we are to be a United Kingdom,we should all be governed by the mother of parliaments in Westminster, or call it a day and go our seperate ways with no alimony expected. Too much having cake and eating it presently imo.
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Yes, I would certainly agree with that one son, especially when one considers the standard of representation available at these regional assemblies (overt nationalists, dreamers, backwoodsmen, mouth-breathers, unrepentant terrorists inter alia)
It's bad enough trying to deal with the dross at Westminster but that imposition, when multiplied by three assemblies, JesuChri. :( :(
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If there is to be a referendum then it should be UK wide and the question should be: Do you want the UK to cease to exist? Yes or No ???
In my opinion there cannot be a UK without Scotland. ;) So who gave Alex Salmond, the SNP and the Scots the right to determine the constitutional future of the peoples of England, Wales and Northern Ireland ?? :-\ >:(
Although I'd rather see the UK continue to exist, England would be fine on its own especially if it didn't join the EU!!! :y
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We have had this debate on the forum a few weeks back. My views are unchanged.
No way should Scotland consider leaving the UK.
If a referendum is held ALL UK voters should vote on it.
If they do get the votes to leave it should be in entirety. Own defence, own embassies the world over and so on. They would soon realise that there is synergy in a UK.
As I said before I would rebuild and man Hadrians wall to stop folk trying to escape to the land of milk and honey (England) .
Oh and the final irony, not appreciated by most voters, is that under EU law newly created countries as Scotland would be would have to take the Euro unless they sought dispensation to keep the pound. I wonder if Mervyn King would be able to say "no let them have the Euro!"
Personally I think that it is a vote winner for Salmond. He would get another term of privelege. Camerons handling of it is very good. He now has two feathers from me for his cap. Still short of a headress but showing promise.............
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I have resisted the temptation to go down the chapter and verse Braveheart route of Highland clearances, English lords being 'given' lands and estates in Scotland (and Wales and Ireland) but had to mention them, just to clear my throat, as it were.... :-*
Oh - and the British National Anthem with the now deleted verse
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King.
This is now hotly disputed to never have been but, two hundred and something years later, history can be masaged to suit every and any viewpoint. ;D
As to The UK of GB & NI, I would counter argue the monies part of the views so far quoted by saying the revenues from the English non Scottish landowners, taxation on residents, whisky, the remains of the fishing industry as well as the mineral rights available under the waters off the Scottish coast more than equals the fiscal monies that the Scottish Parliament has to disperse, at their discretion, within the country.
Thats where the prescription thing comes from, but that is to the detriment of several other areas within Scotland. And its the same in Wales.
Scottish MP's sitting at Westminster? Its the UK so, why not? There are Welsh MP's as well as NI MP's sitting there to govern the UK? That there are also MSP's in Scotland for the additional clown show of Holyrood, well, the same is available in Wales and NI for their Parliaments and Assemblies.
I accept that there is no lower 'house' than the Commons for Engerland but - should that not be a situation that England should be redressing by having a house that governs themselves, rather than continually banging on about the other 3 constituent parts of the UK having something that they dont have?
Personally, I am a proud Scot and it always gets my hackles up when the hard of thinking in the remainder of the UK feel that we (Scotland) are getting a free ride on the back of the hard working, over stretched, taxed to the hilt Englishman/woman. We pay our dues up here too! And we were the gunieapigs for the Community charge/Poll tax that an English British government subsequently foisted upon the whole of the UK!
And lets not get into the realms of those who support the English monarchy, the English military, the English football team, the English rugby team, the English athletes etc etc etc or indeed, the athletes who are Welsh, Irish or Scots when losing but who suddenly become 'British' when they win, according to Aunty Beeb and any and all the others in a broadcasting industry in the UK based in - England.
I've said too much and will attempt to leave it there but, in closing, I am as British as any other born here, be that in any of the 4 countries making the whole. Without any one of the four, the whole will be one helluva lot the worse off....
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I'll keep it short and sweet...
I hate the fact that we're viewed as a 'Great' or 'United' country, we're far from it. Amazing that we're in the 21st Century and it would seem we're becoming more segregated than we were at the beginning of the 20th Century on a global level, never mind just being an island!"
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Sorry Bruce,but your wrong.A liitle research will show that Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland recieve a hell of a lot more from the treasury than they contribute to it.As you know Im not English,so no axe to grind. As said,I also believe in the Union,but not under present unfair unjust arrangements. Tbh,it makes me sad to say so,but I would rather see the breakup of the union than have it carry on as it is at present.
Hopefully Im objective rather than hard of thinking. ;)
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Does that point of reference of yours include oil revenue from within Scots waters......
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Quick, where's that popcorn smiley?
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Sorry Bruce,but your wrong.A liitle research will show that Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland recieve a hell of a lot more from the treasury than they contribute to it.As you know Im not English,so no axe to grind. As said,I also believe in the Union,but not under present unfair unjust arrangements. Tbh,it makes me sad to say so,but I would rather see the breakup of the union than have it carry on as it is at present.
Hopefully Im objective rather than hard of thinking. ;)
Statistics can be used to prove anything ... if you know what you are doing. As two simple examples.
1) If Scottish Expenditure is compared to the English expenditure on a "surface area" or "size" criterea then Scotland is very badly served in comparison to England
2) If Scottish Expenditure is compared to the English expenditure on a "population" or "number" criterea then Scotland is very well served in comparison to England
Up to your point of view which statistic you use ... and there are another few million variations on the theme that can be used to prove any point you wish to make ....
Never, ever, believe a statistician ..... :)
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Correct Entwood.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics!! ;D :y
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Dont think that territory has been established ;).....but as I understand it,the oil industries best years are behind it anyway,not that much left afaik.
However HM treasury info from Danny Alexander states that Scotlands administration spent £14 billion more than Scotland raised in taxation in 2009/10. Scotlands share of the National debt is around £65 billion (that doesnt include calculations for bailing out RBS & HBOS) and it has a smaller private sector than the UK average - ie, many of its joibs are govt. jobs,undoubtedly many of which exist to keep unemployment figures down, just like the rest of the UK.
On the bright side, Scotland (Edinburgh in particular) has quite a strong financial sector,which could help its longer term prospects,as long as those pesky socialists so prevelant north of th border arent allowed to wreck it through dogmatism.
The downside of that of course is that Scotland could be quite highly exposed to the worlds financial problems.
I try to be proud of where Im from too,but I also believe in being realistic and fair minded about it,which is why I also dont believe in the Northern Ireland assembly, for example.
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/speech_cst_010911.htm
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Sorry Bruce,but your wrong.A liitle research will show that Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland recieve a hell of a lot more from the treasury than they contribute to it.As you know Im not English,so no axe to grind. As said,I also believe in the Union,but not under present unfair unjust arrangements. Tbh,it makes me sad to say so,but I would rather see the breakup of the union than have it carry on as it is at present.
Hopefully Im objective rather than hard of thinking. ;)
Statistics can be used to prove anything ... if you know what you are doing. As two simple examples.
1) If Scottish Expenditure is compared to the English expenditure on a "surface area" or "size" criterea then Scotland is very badly served in comparison to England
2) If Scottish Expenditure is compared to the English expenditure on a "population" or "number" criterea then Scotland is very well served in comparison to England
Up to your point of view which statistic you use ... and there are another few million variations on the theme that can be used to prove any point you wish to make ....
Never, ever, believe a statistician ..... :)
The statistic which matters for the purpose of this conversation is how much tax revenue Scotland raises against how much it spends. £14 billion deficit according to HM treasury. ;)
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I would also like someone to try to explain to me how its fair/just/ reasonable that Scottish MP,s sit in Westminster and vote on issues such as university fees in England (and many other less obvious issues), when they have no possible consequences in their own constituencies as they operate under a different set of laws.
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Dont think that territory has been established ;).....but as I understand it,the oil industries best years are behind it anyway,not that much left afaik.
However HM treasury info from Danny Alexander states that Scotlands administration spent £14 billion more than Scotland raised in taxation in 2009/10. Scotlands share of the National debt is around £65 billion (that doesnt include calculations for bailing out RBS & HBOS) and it has a smaller private sector than the UK average - ie, many of its joibs are govt. jobs,undoubtedly many of which exist to keep unemployment figures down, just like the rest of the UK.
On the bright side, Scotland (Edinburgh in particular) has quite a strong financial sector,which could help its longer term prospects,as long as those pesky socialists so prevelant north of th border arent allowed to wreck it through dogmatism.
The downside of that of course is that Scotland could be quite highly exposed to the worlds financial problems.
I try to be proud of where Im from too,but I also believe in being realistic and fair minded about it,which is why I also dont believe in the Northern Ireland assembly, for example.
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/speech_cst_010911.htm
An independant Scotland would apply to join the European Union and thus would be obliged to join the Euro...... and so would have to accept Merkozys financial transaction tax!!! ;)
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I would also like someone to try to explain to me how its fair/just/ reasonable that Scottish MP,s sit in Westminster and vote on issues such as university fees in England (and many other less obvious issues), when they have no possible consequences in their own constituencies as they operate under a different set of laws.
As said already, they sit in the UK Parliament. That the Scots, Welsh and Irish have their own assemblies and members is a moot point. What England needs is a similar setup so that MEP's (thats members of the English parliament, not Euro) sit in an English parliament which would preclude the assembled Celts....
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Correct Entwood.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics!! ;D :y
... And the Internet.
According to Clarkson. ;)
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Dont think that territory has been established ;).....but as I understand it,the oil industries best years are behind it anyway,not that much left afaik.
However HM treasury info from Danny Alexander states that Scotlands administration spent £14 billion more than Scotland raised in taxation in 2009/10. Scotlands share of the National debt is around £65 billion (that doesnt include calculations for bailing out RBS & HBOS) and it has a smaller private sector than the UK average - ie, many of its joibs are govt. jobs,undoubtedly many of which exist to keep unemployment figures down, just like the rest of the UK.
On the bright side, Scotland (Edinburgh in particular) has quite a strong financial sector,which could help its longer term prospects,as long as those pesky socialists so prevelant north of th border arent allowed to wreck it through dogmatism.
The downside of that of course is that Scotland could be quite highly exposed to the worlds financial problems.
I try to be proud of where Im from too,but I also believe in being realistic and fair minded about it,which is why I also dont believe in the Northern Ireland assembly, for example.
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/speech_cst_010911.htm
The 'territory' was established long before Scotland had the (legal/Parliamentary privelage) to challenge said territorial boundaries. Its within the UK legal remit, not Scotlands, hence not included in the fiscal returns. For Scotland.... ;)
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I would also like someone to try to explain to me how its fair/just/ reasonable that Scottish MP,s sit in Westminster and vote on issues such as university fees in England (and many other less obvious issues), when they have no possible consequences in their own constituencies as they operate under a different set of laws.
As said already, they sit in the UK Parliament. That the Scots, Welsh and Irish have their own assemblies and members is a moot point. What England needs is a similar setup so that MEP's (thats members of the English parliament, not Euro) sit in an English parliament which would preclude the assembled Celts....
The last thing England needs is to spend untold millions on another tier of government filled with no-marks!! ::)
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Fair point Bruce,but that is yet another layer of govt. beauracracy. Imo we need a lot less of that rather than more of it.
British parliament for the British nation. Its the only way imo. Served us reasonably well for centuries until those philistine,British hating, Nu Liebore shites breaked around with it. ;)
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I would also like someone to try to explain to me how its fair/just/ reasonable that Scottish MP,s sit in Westminster and vote on issues such as university fees in England (and many other less obvious issues), when they have no possible consequences in their own constituencies as they operate under a different set of laws.
As said already, they sit in the UK Parliament. That the Scots, Welsh and Irish have their own assemblies and members is a moot point. What England needs is a similar setup so that MEP's (thats members of the English parliament, not Euro) sit in an English parliament which would preclude the assembled Celts....
The last thing England needs is to spend untold millions on another tier of government filled with no-marks!! ::)
In that case, why moan about others?? ;D
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Fair point Bruce,but that is yet another layer of govt. beauracracy. Imo we need a lot less of that rather than more of it.
British parliament for the British nation. Its the only way imo. Served us reasonably well for centuries until those philistine,British hating, Nu Liebore shites breaked around with it. ;)
There is not too much of that I find fault with, TBH, but there has to be some method of administering the individual component countries in matters which apply specifically to them and are of no interest to the Great and the Good at Westminster?
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I'm not moaning about that H! ;)
One solution however and would sort out another constitutional mess left by Labour (The House of Lords), would be to change to a federal system. Thus, the House of Commons would become the English Parliament. The Welsh and Northern Ireland Assemblies would become full Parliaments.
All four countries would raise their own revenue and spend it how they please in terms of Education, Health, Transport, Arts, Trade and Industry etc. The House of Lords would become The British Parliament/Senate and would oversee the whole sheebang as well as having responsibility for Defence, Foriegn Affairs etc :)
Oh and all four countries would achieve independance by ceding from the EU!!! :y :y :y
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That sounds like a bad idea tbh Tigger,but nowhere near as bad an idea as the utter shambles we have at present. ;)
I have nothing against Scotland btw,apart from the fact that they gave as the omnishambles known as Gordon Brown.
Whatever the rest of the UK inflicted on the poor Scots in the past,they had their vengeance and then some when they sent that unhinged idiot down to Londinium. ::) :D
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The 'Constitutional mess' you refer to cannot simply be laid low at Labours door, much as some would like.
Successive incarnations of those shadow lurkers of assorted hues, persuasions and pervertions who deem themselves to be public representatives have milked the public purse such that a whole social class has pupated, completely estranged from the lower/middle/upper class standards of old, into a skanky moth that has no use whatsoever to the rest of the world...
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The 'Constitutional mess' you refer to cannot simply be laid low at Labours door, much as some would like.
Successive incarnations of those shadow lurkers of assorted hues, persuasions and pervertions who deem themselves to be public representatives have milked the public purse such that a whole social class has pupated, completely estranged from the lower/middle/upper class standards of old, into a skanky moth that has no use whatsoever to the rest of the world...
As I said H... Labour!! Although they pupated into New Labour... ;)
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The 'Constitutional mess' you refer to cannot simply be laid low at Labours door, much as some would like.
Successive incarnations of those shadow lurkers of assorted hues, persuasions and pervertions who deem themselves to be public representatives have milked the public purse such that a whole social class has pupated, completely estranged from the lower/middle/upper class standards of old, into a skanky moth that has no use whatsoever to the rest of the world...
As I said H... Labour!! Although they pupated into New Labour... ;)
My point is that it was not just Labour - new old or otherwise - there were assorted hues and persuasions of Labour, Conservative, Liberal, Communist, Socialist, Fascist, Nationalists, Greens, Whigs, Democrats etc etc etc..... All individual straws that have been trampled and paddled in the muckpool that has hardened into that pigpen edifice that is 'Parliament'.....
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Fresh bannock and some rhubarb jam anyone :-* Presumably, were Scotland to become fully independent, the Northern Isles would revert back to Denmark :-\
As unfortunate as it may be, as long as politics are the guiding force behind the descision making processes, every aspect of our lives will be a series of compromises that will undoubtably benefit someone else. :-\
Let the Civil Service run the UK in the UKs' best interest, and let us all vote for the face we would like to see on telly telling us what the Civil Service are doing. That way we could be satisfied that the systems are being run effectively, without any political blocks/disparity ruining effective government :y
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//................There is not too much of that I find fault with, TBH, but there has to be some method of administering the individual component countries in matters which apply specifically to them and are of no interest to the Great and the Good at Westminster?
The 'Constitutional mess' you refer to cannot simply be laid low at Labours door, much as some would like.
Successive incarnations of those shadow lurkers of assorted hues, persuasions and pervertions who deem themselves to be public representatives have milked the public purse such that a whole social class has pupated, completely estranged from the lower/middle/upper class standards of old, into a skanky moth that has no use whatsoever to the rest of the world...
Yes, this is why I referred to the dross at Westminster being difficult enough to deal with - however when we consider the tendency many of those in the regions have to grab as much for themselves (not unnaturally) it can suggested that this may have an overall effect on the strategic interests of the country as a whole and create a sense of misplaced 'nationhood' in many of its citizens.
The example of localised power (as it presently stands) being exhibited by many councils up and down the land should be example enough of how that power can be corrupted in such a way as to favour the few rather than the many.
In regional assemblies especially where the ability to run a local financial package may well exist at a future point (tax raising and so on) the possibility for an abuse of power, or the unprofessional, incapable or inefficient practice of it, substantially raises the likelihood that the people subject to the decisions made by that assembly will not be well done by.
In a lot of cases I dont see the quality of leadership available at the moment or, indeed, the qualities necessary in many of those who purport to be public representatives concerned with the welfare of their citizens to provide honest, capable and meaningful government.
Government in this nation as a whole has lost its way and the shift of power to the regions in the way being suggested will, in my view at least, ensure that the break-up of the United Kingdom (short form) will be sealed - with all the possibilities for difficulty that this unwelcome development may hold for the future.
Westminster needs to be sorted out first and foremost. Our public representatives working there must act in the interests of the citizens of the country as a whole and beyond all else, we all of us should take the notion of allegiance to the United Kingdom to heart and be more concerned with the many rather than the few.
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I think we should have the referendum not Scotland. to vote if we want them to be part of England.
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I think we should have the referendum not Scotland. to vote if we want them to be part of England.
You want to rethink that a little bit Ritchie? Perhaps substitute UK or GB in place of England??
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I think we should have the referendum not Scotland. to vote if we want them to be part of England.
You want to rethink that a little bit Ritchie? Perhaps substitute UK or GB in place of England??
Your right there H. English are well out numbered. it don't bother me what happens. its all politics and nothing more. who gets control of what. I've a few good mates in Scotland so that won't change whatever happens
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We will never see a real answer to any of these debates unless the 'split' happens.
Clearly there is a huge overhead associated with foreign office outposts, potential EU membership, border management etc etc etc.
I would not want to see any split but I also think these devolved parliaments are a HUGE waist of resources which were only put in place to win votes and favour.
History is exactly that, something from the past and in reality has no bearing on this (unless a Zimbabwe type approach is taken).
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Clearly there is a huge overhead associated with foreign office outposts, potential EU membership, border management etc etc etc.
I would not want to see any split but I also think these devolved parliaments are a HUGE waist of resources which were only put in place to win votes and favour.
History is exactly that, something from the past and in reality has no bearing on this (unless a Zimbabwe type approach is taken).
Clearly there is a huge overhead associated with foreign office outposts, potential EU membership, border management etc etc etc.
Yes especially to the people of those devolved regions - should that cost have to be borne by them alone and not by a common exchequer.
I would not want to see any split but I also think these devolved parliaments are a HUGE waist of resources which were only put in place to win votes and favour.
I certainly see validity in that suggestion.
History is exactly that, something from the past and in reality has no bearing on this
While history should never be ignored for practical and strategic reasons, it can indeed be indulgent (and counter-productive) to continually dwell in the past.
Zimbabwe type approach is taken
In the unlikely event of that happening many of those who would be subject to the aftermath of such an event would perhaps think twice about the wisdom of it.
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Easy and cheap to fix the West Lothian question, only allow English MPs to debate and vote on the issue. See that was much too difficult for the current bunch of bladder heads in Government to think of. >:( >:( >:(
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;) Just for starters I have Scottish blood in my ancestry and proud of it. I am also totally against this ridiculous and financially unsound proposal for Scotlands independance. Is this some form of joke? Do they not realise that they are being led up the garden path by their elected representatives, one in particular who sees himself as some probable form of a King of Scotland on a set of elaborate promises which will lead to chaos if it ever becomes reality?
To become fully independant which is what he wants will inevitably result in all financial support being withdrawn from the English coffers and it will then have to financially support itself. Already he has stated that finances will be raised through taxation, a small point that I am sure the rest of the population of Scotland will be less than happy about.
In reality there is more interference to the English parliament by way of the sheer number of Scottish MP's within its ranks than the opposite way round. Perhaps a good starting point would now to be, considering that Scotland now has its own parliament, to have only English, NI and Welsh Mp's in the English (UK) parliament. The Welsh appear to be happy enough with the situation as is so why is Scotland being the fly in the ointment? Looks to me to be the sole ambition of one mans drean for power...... The start of a dictatorship type of government maybe?
Can someone explain from where Scotland will gain its finances to support itself, or are 'handouts' to be its major income which intrinsically is how the UK financially support third world countries which are really nothing to do with us because they cut their ties, if any, many years ago? Is that not proof enough that full independance is a silly 'pie in the sky' from a would be ;D king ;D Laugh or cry, there are only two options if it comes to pass and the wet one will be the vast majority because raising taxes is not liked by taxpayers who will see their leaders revel in luxury when their own incomes are penalised ever again.
Personally my hope would be that Scotland gains its independance and that the UK then stops totally its financial support which is raised from the majority of the population who reside in England. That would only be fair.
Why should we be paying for prescriptions when those in Scotland don't? Just another small thing which would probably have to change too to save money!
Think carefully Scottish people before you vote because it will be irreversable unless the terms of reintegration, should it need to occur, are agreed to fully which would then logically even out the benefits you already enjoy above the remainder of the UK. No more free prescriptions for a start.
How easily the Scottish will be duped will show in history, however it turns out. I hope that their inherent and famous 'monetary prudence' (apart from the Brown fiasco) will rule their decision.
:'(
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just extend the referendum to all the uk, there is more support in england to kick the tinkers out than there is in scotland... ;D ;D ;D
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I think part of the problem is that alot of English people don't seem to understand how it all works. Bionic you refer to the 'English Parliament' more than once in your post. There is no English Parliament!! ::) In the other thread it was mentioned about Scotland not being apart of England anymore..... :D That would get my goat if I was Scottish!!
Mybe we should debate the benefits of English independance as there are several threads debating Scottish independance! If England left the UK then it would be UNIWS.... Union of Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland.....
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I was in a bit of a rush but on the radio this morning all i could keep hearing is this sweaty alex salmond has got a man date before you know it he will be moving to brighton ;D ;D
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I'll be able to get a Scottish passport :D
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Scotland would be ok financially, it has a couple of
bankrupt world class banks in RBS and HBOS. The Eurozone Tobin tax I'm sure will help the banks recover :D :D The English, Welsh, and Northern Irish, I'm sure will give Scotland generous terms on paying back the bailout debt on these. Easy to manage terms over 25 years on your Independence credit card at a mere 2% interest per month. ;D ;D ;D
The repair and maintenance of a couple of fishing patrol boats won't be quite the earner of a nuclear submarine base, along with the repatriation of many public service HQ's / call centres etc. that were located in Scotland to help bring down the high unemployment, but Scotland can't have everything. ::) ::) ::)
Scotland will inevitably having much higher taxes than the UK:
1. High unemployment, high social provision to pay for the most unhealthy lifestyle out of all of the UK population.
2. No more uk higher spend per head of population tax rebate from the rest of the UK.
3. Keeping King Salmon and his royal court at the standard of living he aspires too will not be cheap.
4. No discount allowed on your EU membership invoice.
5. The Eurozone welcome pack for their newest member, will include an invoice for your contribution to the ECB amd EFSF bailout funds. :o :o :o (The pack will include a Merkosy 'with complements slip'. ;D ;D ;D)
The biggest net change will be to the growth of Scottish tourism.....
It will be great for the UK side of the Scottish borders.
1. Many Scottish businesses will locate to take advantage of the lower corporation tax and Business rates.
2. Employees will encourage them to move, so they can border hop to avoid higher Scottish employee taxes.
3. The weekend tourist trade will be mainly in a southern direction for shopping trips (VAT 5% lower), cheaper petrol and for a good smoke, cigarettes in England will still be under 10 a packet and there will be no minimum 2 charge per unit of alcohol, so they can afford their Friday and Saturday bevvie or twenty in an English pub and then crash out in a local B&B. ::) ::) ::)
As an Englishman if the vote was nationwide I would have probably have voted against independence, but on this analysis I'm rapidily talking myself into a yes vote. ::) ::) ::)
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Having scots blood I would love it to be united but as I live in England and therefore watch the English taxes constantly prop up the Scottish economy then a big YES to their total seperation which then would hopefully stop the constant bleeding of our, the English taxpayers money from subsidising a part of our country which does not want to be a part of it. Separation and independence of Scotland would not hurt England as England pours more out to Scotland than it receives back.
The truth might hurt other Scots but at least I am being truthful and not misled by some already vastly overweight Scotsman who would love to be the next King of Scotland! Might it be that it would not only be his ego that inflated but also his waistline?
Whether the Scots are truly gullible, and their voted decision will show the truth of that, will decide their future. Personally, as a Scotsman in exile I hope they eventually see through his personal agenda and show him the way to the dole. One thing is certain is that he has already stated that personal taxation will have to increase to pay for independance and it will definitely be the end of the free prescriptions and perks that we, the English do not receive and they do, for all Scots living north of the border! If they try to raise the cost of Scottish exports too high to compensate for lost income then once it became too high they would stop being bought and so turns the circle of destruction.
Ah well, at least I am safer in England and being a taxpayer all of my working life enjoy the comforts of what those payments allow me to receive. Benefits? I do not receive any apart from an award for injuries sustained while working and paying tax for many years. Neither do I receive council tax or rent rebates. Oh I forgot- I do receive the winter heating allowance due to my age.
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http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article-2086465/Scottish-independence-referendum-What-Scotland-did-alone.html
"A bankrupt economy, North Sea oil rights sold to China and Shetlanders defecting to Norway. What if Scotland DID go it alone?"
A humorous if long article ;D ;D ;D ;D
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This from Taiwan, explains everything!! ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YiIiXjjEcjE
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millwall is moaning again
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If England had a referendum the current polls show that we would kick Scotland into touch, and beat Salmond to it on our terms. ;D ;D
I wonder if that would shut the arsewipe up :y :y
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no millwall is not moaning he s just stating the facts
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Peter Hitchens makes some interesting comments on the subject. Never one to court popular opinion,but always thought provoking imo.
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/
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millwall is moaning again
how do you work that out idiot
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http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article-2086465/Scottish-independence-referendum-What-Scotland-did-alone.html
"A bankrupt economy, North Sea oil rights sold to China and Shetlanders defecting to Norway. What if Scotland DID go it alone?"
A humorous if long article ;D ;D ;D ;D
See, I wasn't just being daft ::)
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not an idiot just observation what is wrong with scotland wanting independence just let them get on with it and see the mess they make :y :y :y
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not an idiot just observation what is wrong with scotland wanting independence just let them get on with it and see the mess they make :y :y :y
i agree they will make a mess my point was i wasnt moaning i was stating facts and asking opinions do i give a toss if they leave us not really :y
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not me maybe some quiet then