Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: MV6 MAN on 12 January 2012, 20:35:09
-
hey guys, wounder if somone can help me answer my question, can i remap my MV6 on its standard ECU as i know for some cars you have to buy a different ECU, need to no soon, as the car needs to be on the rolling road at the end of feb really, wanting 260bhp approx.
-
The 3.0 ECU use an Eprom for its Hex look up, so yes, the remapper will just write the new map to a new Eprom, or give you one of the shelf, not sure where your going to get 260 BHP from though if using a standard 3.0 L set up.
Chris.
-
thanks for that, and im not running standard setup, at the moment its in Torque Technique for a complete custom exhaust system, which should bump it up quite abit and its having fast road cams in it as soon as it come bk, then it will go for the remap so it may even make more than that to be honist, ive seen some standard omega's go for remaps and come out with like 235bhp so i should make it
-
Is this link any good to you?
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=98042.0
-
If your changing the Exhaust set up (and the Manifolds) together with having the Cams out, might be worth doing some gas flowing on the Heads, larger Throttle Bodies are another item to look at.
235 Bhp (or up to) seems the claimed figure by a lot of the re chippers for a standard Engine, more like +5 - 15 Bhp, or 20 max on a good Engine.
Chris.
-
thankyou for the link but the rolling road is where i will get my car done, as i dont like buying somthing i can not garantee it will work or performe the way it is said to do, but thankyou anyway.
-
hey chris way ahead of you on that one lol, when the head gasket were changed (a while ago) the head was skimmed and gas flowed so that has been done already, it was then fitted with a cat back system but i have now ditched that and started again, even better with mainfolds and to fish off with the cams, what do reckon? :)
-
Good luck with it, sounds like your be spending some cash there, Ive played with a few re chips on the 3.0 including some explod eproms with some interest but never knowingly on a modded block.
As said if its been Gas Flowed would be worth looking at widened Throttle Boddies.
Will be good to hear your results when finished.
:y :y
-
i will post back on this page when its done to let you no, could be anytime in febuary
-
I suspect if you ever do manage that sort of power, which i reckon will be unachievable (if the rolling road isn't overly kind to tuners ::)), the bottom end won't last too long...
-
I suspect if you ever do manage that sort of power, which i reckon will be unachievable (if the rolling road isn't overly kind to tuners ::)), the bottom end won't last too long...
indeed.. especially considering you would need to be the wrong side of 7000 RPM to make that sort of power.
-
I suspect if you ever do manage that sort of power, which i reckon will be unachievable (if the rolling road isn't overly kind to tuners ::)), the bottom end won't last too long...
Agreed. :y you would need a straight six instead of a v6 if you want to tune it for a lot more power. :D ;D
-
ar there is always people to put downers on situations, the bottom end on the v6 will be fine, and its about being different rather then being the same as everyone else, people do more stupid things to other engines then me, so asking 45bhp more out of mine should'nt be to hard, need to live a little peeps ;D ;D
-
and to add ive managed to pull just under 190bhp out of my redtop corsa b, with not to silly mods, yes the internals have been changed on it etc, but still 3.0v6, there is way more power you can squese out of it lol
-
The Omega 3.0 lump in the Ascona is running cavalier 2.5 management (not a swear word here honest!) and is a steady 256bhp, with only custom manifolds and xorst by Pro-speed in Cardiff.
The 2.5 cav management is relatively happy with the extra capacity and flow so perhaps a chip is not required in light of other mods you could do first? I know the stock manifolds choke the engine something chronic from trial and error. We roaded it before and after and they were 15bhp in their own right.
-
thankyou someone shining abit of light on my situation lol
-
I love the GM V6 so much I've got one in 3 cars now.
2010 rollers video link: http://youtu.be/x1ATpc2Uepw
This was 2 years ago when we were running a homemade (literally two steel toilet roll holders welded together) inlet.. we replaced that for a 2into1 setup we designed and made on a mates lathe which brought the power up another 5 bhp, then sorted all the sensors etc, ran on good fuel and topped 255-256 across 3 runs. Due to 6 speed was run up in 4th.
(And yup, I hit a pheasant on the way to the rollers.. just wish I'd taken a decent camera there that day...)
-
I'd certainly be interested in the dyno plot.
Just be sure to go along first for a standard dyno run, so you can get an idea of the rise.
most dynos are a bit complimentary, but you'd also want to get an idea of the number of ponies you've lost over the years.
standard car is 210 BHP, but that's probably dropped to 200. Dyno will over-read by, say 10BHP, so you could be in the two following extreme situations.
Dyno accurate - car lost 10BHP due to age - you gained 20BHP through mods. Dyno figure = 220BHP
Dyno 20BHP excessive - car not lost anything - you gained only 10BHP through mods. Dyno figure = 240BHP
which would you be most happy with ?
I guess the point is to take it along first for a "before" plot
-
.. and, if the people selling you the tuning are the same people who operate the dyno... ;)
-
I'd certainly be interested in the dyno plot.
Just be sure to go along first for a standard dyno run, so you can get an idea of the rise.
most dynos are a bit complimentary, but you'd also want to get an idea of the number of ponies you've lost over the years.
standard car is 210 BHP, but that's probably dropped to 200. Dyno will over-read by, say 10BHP, so you could be in the two following extreme situations.
Dyno accurate - car lost 10BHP due to age - you gained 20BHP through mods. Dyno figure = 220BHP
Dyno 20BHP excessive - car not lost anything - you gained only 10BHP through mods. Dyno figure = 240BHP
which would you be most happy with ?
I guess the point is to take it along first for a "before" plot
Couldnt agree more!
Tried to find a nice pessimistic set of rollers for a before and after run at two separate locations. Took it along to a vvoc day where guys were well annoyed that they had paid X thousand and had less power on the rollers.
Have the plots - and the change is extensive - tbh I'm happier with the power and torque curves being smooth and progressive rather than all out peak power. If you pause the video at the end you can make out the dyno plot in the vid too.
-
MV6Man - my worry is both V6's I've seen with turbo conversions, both allegedly knocking out around 250bhp, had what I thought was a worrying bottom end noise under light acceleration.
I think to get much more than 10% extra will start to cost strong money... ...at which point, would a nice V8 be 'different' ;)
-
I love the GM V6 so much I've got one in 3 cars now.
2010 rollers video link: http://youtu.be/x1ATpc2Uepw
This was 2 years ago when we were running a homemade (literally two steel toilet roll holders welded together) inlet.. we replaced that for a 2into1 setup we designed and made on a mates lathe which brought the power up another 5 bhp, then sorted all the sensors etc, ran on good fuel and topped 255-256 across 3 runs. Due to 6 speed was run up in 4th.
(And yup, I hit a pheasant on the way to the rollers.. just wish I'd taken a decent camera there that day...)
A healthy gain, but what of the flat spots lower down...? Was any progress made with those after?
mv6man.
Is the engine in good nic to start with? If the work has already started then we'll never know the true benefit of the mods in terms of a percentage gain without a dyno run first, as said.
For instance, just as an example, if we see a total Bhp of say 225, just as a grab out of the air figure. That seems a a lot of money to spend for 15 hp over stock. But if the engine is 20 hp down to start with then 35bhp, might be worth looking into further. Does that make sense?
Do you have a dyno run prior to any work? So we can see the exact gain per buck?
Might be interested in this if a fairly straight torque curve can be maintained with no flat spots...? There's nout worse than bogging and dancing round flat spots. :)
-
Also it is worth taking on board some of the comments here re max Bhp the bottom end will take on the v engine. We rarely see main baring issues on here, but they are known to see daylight if tuned excessively.
Although keeping it naturally asspirated seems to keep within those limits historically.
Interesting. Best of luck with it. :y
-
There's nout worse than bogging and dancing round fat spots. :)
As anyone with a broken/remove multiram will find :y
-
There's nout worse than bogging and dancing round fat spots. :)
As anyone with a broken/remove multiram will find :y
Aaeye, depends what the owner wants, top end Bhp, or retain some drivability lower down. The tuner that can deliver both will be a very rich man.
-
There's nout worse than bogging and dancing round fat spots. :)
As anyone with a broken/remove multiram will find :y
Aaeye, depends what the owner wants, top end Bhp, or retain some drivability lower down. The tuner that can deliver both will be a very rich man.
Itshould be fairly possible, you just need to adjust the intakes to match. Whether its cost effective....
-
There's nout worse than bogging and dancing round fat spots. :)
As anyone with a broken/remove multiram will find :y
Aaeye, depends what the owner wants, top end Bhp, or retain some drivability lower down. The tuner that can deliver both will be a very rich man.
Itshould be fairly possible, you just need to adjust the intakes to match. Whether its cost effective....
All roads lead to a v8 IMO. As you say.
Very interested to see what gains this project gives though. Although as I recall, if i have the right member, op wasn't too keen on replacing a broken spring at the Wycombe meet, change in circumstances perhaps?
-
i never did take the car for a dyno before starting this project, few reasons why, but the main was i cant afford to keep taking it for dyno runs and its alot of hastle from where i live because i have to travel along way to get to the dyno, the engine is sound as it is and i think it has been well kept previous to me, so i would imagine if there is a power loss i would'nt imagine it would be much, but to be honist i dont really mind what i get out of it with the mods im doing i just want a fairly quick omega, if i do not make my taget of 260bhp, then i will spend more to get it there, i no it can do it, with still being n/a and standard internals so you there it is really, i have tuned many cars before and got high power and the engines are fine, i no not all engines are the same, but the vaux v6 is a strong block, but will be interesting to see how she comes out, if anyone is going to fast show at santa pod then you will see me there, she will be going up the strip so will be nice to see an omega go up lol
-
i never did take the car for a dyno before starting this project, few reasons why, but the main was i cant afford to keep taking it for dyno runs and its alot of hastle from where i live because i have to travel along way to get to the dyno, the engine is sound as it is and i think it has been well kept previous to me, so i would imagine if there is a power loss i would'nt imagine it would be much, but to be honist i dont really mind what i get out of it with the mods im doing i just want a fairly quick omega, if i do not make my taget of 260bhp, then i will spend more to get it there, i no it can do it, with still being n/a and standard internals so you there it is really, i have tuned many cars before and got high power and the engines are fine, i no not all engines are the same, but the vaux v6 is a strong block, but will be interesting to see how she comes out, if anyone is going to fast show at santa pod then you will see me there, she will be going up the strip so will be nice to see an omega go up lol
If the engine is in good nic, it won't be necessary to spend so much on tuning to reach the desired figure, for instance if there's a compression issue. I hope your assumptions are correct I really do. That's a fair lump of wedge to throw at tuning a car, more than twice it's worth.
A 24% gain in BHP without forced induction....? That's going some. Best of luck. :y
-
Maybe upping the compression ratio. Might need purely high octane fuel.
Not sure you can achieve those sorts of gains purely be cams, inlets and exhaust, and remaps.
-
ar there is always people to put downers on situations, the bottom end on the v6 will be fine, and its about being different rather then being the same as everyone else, people do more stupid things to other engines then me, so asking 45bhp more out of mine should'nt be to hard, need to live a little peeps ;D ;D
Agreed :y :y :y :y :y
-
ar there is always people to put downers on situations, the bottom end on the v6 will be fine, and its about being different rather then being the same as everyone else, people do more stupid things to other engines then me, so asking 45bhp more out of mine should'nt be to hard, need to live a little peeps ;D ;D
Agreed :y :y :y :y :y
Not wrong with that. :)
Just trying to help with a more effective approach is all, where's the downer?
As said, most interested in this. Please keep us informed. :y
-
More gain and more cost effective maybe ;D ;D :y
http://www.noswizard.com/
-
To me, this is a really worthwhile project. Pricey, and engines are difficult to find. But 350bhp from a stock ls1 with almost endless tuning possibilitys with a v8 barbel.
But each to their own as they say. :)
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/af4f59ac.jpg)
-
Diesel Golf with Nitros against a Honda NSX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr4tnQJZdOc
Worth a watch for Vikki alone :)
-
To me, this is a really worthwhile project. Pricey, and engines are difficult to find. But 350bhp from a stock ls1 with almost endless tuning possibilitys with a v8 barbel.
But each to their own as they say. :)
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/af4f59ac.jpg)
I do like the v8 conversions, but even just looking at that engine bay just puts me off lol, where would you start if you wanted to change something, but still a nice conversion if you got the money, but i think ill stay with the v6 ;)
-
To me, this is a really worthwhile project. Pricey, and engines are difficult to find. But 350bhp from a stock ls1 with almost endless tuning possibilitys with a v8 barbel.
But each to their own as they say. :)
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/af4f59ac.jpg)
I do like the v8 conversions, but even just looking at that engine bay just puts me off lol, where would you start if you wanted to change something, but still a nice conversion if you got the money, but i think ill stay with the v6 ;)
No cam belt. Very small cam chain. Bomb proof as an engine gets with no cam cover seal issues, bullet proof bottom end, 50k (?) plug life accessed from the side admittedly but no cable tray in the way and well away from scuttle water leaks. Far easier to work on than a v6 by miles. ;D
Not cheap, but better and more reliable results. Biggest concern is clearing the steering box exhaust manifold interface. But as you see, doable. :y
-
maybe you should go and buy yourself a v8 then, i love how i post a question about my car to see if i can get it re-maped and a few people are basically putting me down, well i dont see ANYone else doing ANYthing to their omega's so its more then some, the v6 is getting tuned and thats that, if i want a v8 ill buy a car that comes with one from factory, but thanks anyway
-
Tbh mate,imo its long been established that the v6 isnt particularily well suited to tuning. Afaik no-one has ever managed to get that much more power from one over the standard setup,even when spending quite a lot of money. :-\
-
maybe you should go and buy yourself a v8 then, i love how i post a question about my car to see if i can get it re-maped and a few people are basically putting me down, well i dont see ANYone else doing ANYthing to their omega's so its more then some, the v6 is getting tuned and thats that, if i want a v8 ill buy a car that comes with one from factory, but thanks anyway
You have only been given the extensive experience and opinion of members ;)
Personally, if I wanted something exceptionally fast I wouldn't start with an Omega... near on 2 Tonnes of car isn't going to be lightening quick without moving away from the standard power plant.
I wish you the best of luck in your quest for more horses and, I'm sure I speak for many here, if you manage to genuinely get a big power increase for sensible money we'd be interested :y :y
-
maybe you should go and buy yourself a v8 then, i love how i post a question about my car to see if i can get it re-maped and a few people are basically putting me down, well i dont see ANYone else doing ANYthing to their omega's so its more then some, the v6 is getting tuned and thats that, if i want a v8 ill buy a car that comes with one from factory, but thanks anyway
You have only been given the extensive experience and opinion of members ;)
Personally, if I wanted something exceptionally fast I wouldn't start with an Omega... near on 2 Tonnes of car isn't going to be lightening quick without moving away from the standard power plant.
I wish you the best of luck in your quest for more horses and, I'm sure I speak for many here, if you manage to genuinely get a big power increase for sensible money we'd be interested :y :y
i will take in fair coments about the tuning and i understand there are people with experience on here, but i never once said i wanted a car that would be exstreamly quick, i said i want a fast omega, being that i am only 20 so i cant afford that much (car wise) i have a near 200bhp track corsa b which would easily beat the omega but i said i want 260bhp out of the v6 and i will get it, you dont no untill you try and thats what im gunna do.
-
I don't see anyone being put down here. You've shared your ideas, others have shared theirs. Exactly what a discussion forum is all about.
We'll be interested in how you get on. One of the reasons for the sceptical approach to tuning the V6 is that not many have trod that path, and there are lots of tales of woe of relatively modest power increases causing lots of hassle. It will be great if you come up with some fresh data that debunks the V6 tuning myths. :y
-
maybe you should go and buy yourself a v8 then, i love how i post a question about my car to see if i can get it re-maped and a few people are basically putting me down, well i dont see ANYone else doing ANYthing to their omega's so its more then some, the v6 is getting tuned and thats that, if i want a v8 ill buy a car that comes with one from factory, but thanks anyway
You have only been given the extensive experience and opinion of members ;)
Personally, if I wanted something exceptionally fast I wouldn't start with an Omega... near on 2 Tonnes of car isn't going to be lightening quick without moving away from the standard power plant.
I wish you the best of luck in your quest for more horses and, I'm sure I speak for many here, if you manage to genuinely get a big power increase for sensible money we'd be interested :y :y
i will take in fair coments about the tuning and i understand there are people with experience on here, but i never once said i wanted a car that would be exstreamly quick, i said i want a fast omega, being that i am only 20 so i cant afford that much (car wise) i have a near 200bhp track corsa b which would easily beat the omega but i said i want 260bhp out of the v6 and i will get it, you dont no untill you try and thats what im gunna do.
Best of luck again then :y
Anything is possible with enough money, but experience tells us that you will need to spend a lot of money to get more than 20% power gains from a NA V6 engine ;)
-
I don't see anyone being put down here. You've shared your ideas, others have shared theirs. Exactly what a discussion forum is all about.
We'll be interested in how you get on. One of the reasons for the sceptical approach to tuning the V6 is that not many have trod that path, and there are lots of tales of woe of relatively modest power increases causing lots of hassle. It will be great if you come up with some fresh data that debunks the V6 tuning myths. :y
since i posted this tho i have had a few people saying it ent gunna happen or well your gunna need to spend alot to get anywhere, but like you said not many people go down that road and maybe the people that have tryed havent done the best mods or the right mods, im not saying your wrong but, i have luckily got quite a few contacts that have a wide range of tuning and i get good discount, so hopefully wont be paying out outrages prices, so i personally do think there is lots of power there,, think about it tho 3.0lv6 210bhp standard ent much at all, vauxhall put that engine right down for realiablity.
-
maybe you should go and buy yourself a v8 then, i love how i post a question about my car to see if i can get it re-maped and a few people are basically putting me down, well i dont see ANYone else doing ANYthing to their omega's so its more then some, the v6 is getting tuned and thats that, if i want a v8 ill buy a car that comes with one from factory, but thanks anyway
Maybe its better we should all lie? Yeah go ahead, spend a fortune in persute of the impossible, knock your self out. Nobody wants to see you waiste money, hence the opinions.
I tell you what. You show us a before and after increase of 50bhp and I'll personally give you £100 of my own money. Provided...
It's naturally aspirated.
Before and after road tests are on the same dyno.
And it lasts 10k without bottom end failure with the same sealed ecu as the dyno run.
It ain't gona happen. But if it does, I'll be the first to shake your hand mate. :)
-
Sorry, was not meant to sound negative. It was based on:
Both 250bhp Omega I've seen - both turbo'd - had bottom end issues.
A 25% increase in ponys (compare to when new - it would have lost loads since) is a big ask. Being in mind, without work, you're not going to be able to get it to rev much beyond its current redline.
Omega is a heavy car, so you can't compromise too much on low down power, and retain any drivability.
Given the costs involved to go beyond much beyond 10%, the V8 option doesn't look expensive, and makes a better starting point for tuning - both in initial power, and availability of tuning parts and info.
I think sticking with the V6 is backing yourself into an expensive blind alley.
But if thats your desire, best of luck with it, and let us know how you get on :y
-
maybe you should go and buy yourself a v8 then, i love how i post a question about my car to see if i can get it re-maped and a few people are basically putting me down, well i dont see ANYone else doing ANYthing to their omega's so its more then some, the v6 is getting tuned and thats that, if i want a v8 ill buy a car that comes with one from factory, but thanks anyway
Maybe its better we should all lie? Yeah go ahead, spend a fortune in persute of the impossible, knock your self out. Nobody wants to see you waiste money, hence the opinions.
I tell you what. You show us a before and after increase of 50bhp and I'll personally give you £100 of my own money. Provided...
It's naturally aspirated.It ain't gona happen. But if it does, I'll be the first to shake your hand mate. :)
I tell you what MATE ;D how about you jog on, i could'nt give two sh*ts about you opinion, you've been on this site since yesterday and you come on my thread giving me sh*t, ill listen to others but not you, go buy yourself a v8 or what ever you get off on. ;D ;D
Before and after road tests are on the same dyno.
And it lasts 10k without bottom end failure with the same sealed ecu as the dyno run.
-
I think you'll find he knows what he's talking about but hey, we've all said similar ::)
No need to be rude about it though... As I've said already, best of luck with it. :y Watching with interest as if it proves worthwhile and at a sensible cost I could be interested :y
-
I think you'll find he knows what he's talking about but hey, we've all said similar ::)
No need to be rude about it though... As I've said already, best of luck with it. :y Watching with interest as if it proves worthwhile and at a sensible cost I could be interested :y
I ent being funny mate but i have taken in what you have said and others but to be honist i find alot of people's coments rude, its like all the plans that ive got for my car that i want to do and proud of doing on my car, plus in the process of, i should basicaly stop and not really bother and get a v8 or aspiration, but cheers anyway
-
In the 5 years or so the forum has been up and running we have seen 2.0 turbo'd Omegas, V8 Omegas, V6 turbo'd Omegas and even an Omega with a Lotus Carlton engine so you aren't the first to try and make your Omega quicker and you wont be the last. It will cost a small fortune to try and get 260 BHP from your 3.0 and it will more than likely reduce the life expectancy of your engine. If you want to make it quicker and not spend too much personally I would try and loose some weight from the car ;)
Good luck with what ever you try though ;)
-
I think you'll find he knows what he's talking about but hey, we've all said similar ::)
No need to be rude about it though... As I've said already, best of luck with it. :y Watching with interest as if it proves worthwhile and at a sensible cost I could be interested :y
I ent being funny mate but i have taken in what you have said and others but to be honist i find alot of people's coments rude, its like all the plans that ive got for my car that i want to do and proud of doing on my car, plus in the process of, i should basicaly stop and not really bother and get a v8 or aspiration, but cheers anyway
There's a lot of experience on here and we're trying to help you and save you money and/or heartache if/when it either doesn't happen or does for a short time before knocking out the bottom end.
It is a proven fact that tuning a modern, NA engine rarely yields much more than a 10% increase so looking for 25% is ambitious ;)
But hey, you're sure you can do it so we'll wait for the results :y As said, by myself and others, if you find a way to do it at a sensible cost then we're very interested :y
-
As for rude answers, the only ones I can see are yours :-X
But in answer to your initial question, yes it can be re-mapped as it's just an EPROM, which has already been said
-
But in answer to your initial question, yes it can be re-mapped as it's just an EPROM, which has already been said
Indeed. :y
Having said that... If I were setting out to get the best possible power out of a natasp engine and had gone to the expense of hot cams and gasflowed heads I would bin it and go for an aftermarket re-mappable ECU.
That way:
1) You're not limited to using all the original engine ancillaries - intake setup, MAF sensor and injectors that might not flow enough, for example.
2) Every time you need to tweak it, you're not committed to going back to the original tuner for a mapping session and getting him to blow another chip. You, IME, do a lot by getting yourself a wideband O2 sensor and tweaking it on the road with a laptop.
Using the original ECU is a false economy IMHO. Bear in mind that you might need to fit a non-TC ABS ECU, though.
-
well thanks guys for what i would say the usefull information rather then the dishope info, but just to say i went and got her back tonight from torque techniques and it sounds amazing, and fair play to the guys that made me the sytem, he must of had so much ball ake from trying to make those manifolds up, there is no space to work on under the bonnet lol, i will up load some pics as soon as i can :)
-
Please do... Interested in tubular manifolds :y
-
well thanks guys for what i would say the usefull information rather then the dishope info, but just to say i went and got her back tonight from torque techniques and it sounds amazing, and fair play to the guys that made me the sytem, he must of had so much ball ake from trying to make those manifolds up, there is no space to work on under the bonnet lol, i will up load some pics as soon as i can :)
Dishope info? Or a reality check? Not to mention lack of manors. As said the only person being rude is yourself. No need for that attitude. Perhaps you missed the forum rules on the way in? ;)
-
Please do... Interested in tubular manifolds :y
Indeed. If there's one bit of that engine that's visibly sub-optimal, it's the exhaust manifolds.
-
Tubulars are the best mod I've done, plus I've been advised not to mess with the ecu on numerous occasions - unless changes are radical as it causes issues that have been echoed here. Air/fuel/breathing - but I've not done any of this on a MIG. Would love to see (immobilisers/management and random other crazy hurdgles notwithstanding) how an 3.0 ran on 2.5 Cavalier management in a MIG!