Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 15 February 2012, 20:55:33
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Please could someone let me know what the actual differences are, between these boxes?
I'm guessing fitting an R25 to a 3.0 or above is a no no, as engine would rip it to bits?
Only asking because, if this wasn't the case, I was thinking of buying Abiton's car for a manual conversion jobbie....
Cheers :y
James
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R25 is supposed to be fine in a 3.0/3.2. Only difference was shot-peening of the gears on the R28.
It's not like an auto box where the clutches have to be sized for the torque output.
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you can fit R25 with out any problems to 3.0/3.2
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you can fit R25 with out any problems to 3.0/3.2
Ooooooo ::)
What about the Diff...... I suppose I'd see a benefit from fitting the differential from the manual car, too?
Am more interested in being quicker off the mark, than top end speed...
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James,
If you want an R25, I can point you in the direction where there is one you can have FOC.
Let me know. :y
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you can fit R25 with out any problems to 3.0/3.2
Ooooooo ::)
What about the Diff...... I suppose I'd see a benefit from fitting the differential from the manual car, too?
Am more interested in being quicker off the mark, than top end speed...
but if you will fit 4.22 diff to car with manual box you will be fast from traffic lights but on motorway you wont see more then 26mpg or low 20 if you go faster then 80mph
I would go for 3.9
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James,
If you want an R25, I can point you in the direction where there is one you can have FOC.
Let me know. :y
Thanks for the info mate, although I'm thinking if I bought a donor car complete, I'd have the flywheel, clutch pedal, and all the little bits etc I'd need to convert...? :y
TBH, I could sell it on as scrap value once I'd ripped the tranny out.... so I'd probably break even / not lose much, anyway... :-\
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you can fit R25 with out any problems to 3.0/3.2
Ooooooo ::)
What about the Diff...... I suppose I'd see a benefit from fitting the differential from the manual car, too?
Am more interested in being quicker off the mark, than top end speed...
but if you will fit 4.22 diff to car with manual box you will be fast from traffic lights but on motorway you wont see more then 26mpg or low 20 if you go faster then 80mph
I would go for 3.9
What will my 3.2 have at the moment? :)
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you can fit R25 with out any problems to 3.0/3.2
Ooooooo ::)
What about the Diff...... I suppose I'd see a benefit from fitting the differential from the manual car, too?
Am more interested in being quicker off the mark, than top end speed...
but if you will fit 4.22 diff to car with manual box you will be fast from traffic lights but on motorway you wont see more then 26mpg or low 20 if you go faster then 80mph
I would go for 3.9
What will my 3.2 have at the moment? :)
3.9
live as is and you will see lots differents any way :)
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James,
If you want an R25, I can point you in the direction where there is one you can have FOC.
Let me know. :y
Mmm,I have been having thoughts about a manual conversion recently. ::)
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Is this free manual box up by Swindon by any chance? ::)
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you can fit R25 with out any problems to 3.0/3.2
Ooooooo ::)
What about the Diff...... I suppose I'd see a benefit from fitting the differential from the manual car, too?
Am more interested in being quicker off the mark, than top end speed...
but if you will fit 4.22 diff to car with manual box you will be fast from traffic lights but on motorway you wont see more then 26mpg or low 20 if you go faster then 80mph
I would go for 3.9
What will my 3.2 have at the moment? :)
3.9
live as is and you will see lots differents any way :)
3.9 will be fine.. I'm using 3.9 with r25 and the first gear is already very short (although second gear ideal) .. I cant predict how it will be with 4.22..
ps: you will need really long octopussy arms when you try to fill the hydraulics for clutch, pumping and bleeding.. ;D
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Must be honest... I am a little worried what my insurance co might make of it... it's already insured as an Auto.. :-\
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You'd have to declare it as a modification - 'most' mainstream insurers will let you have a couple of modifications (though they'll charge accordingly depending on your age), or switch to a specialist like Adrian Flux/Sky/etc
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Must be honest... I am a little worried what my insurance co might make of it... it's already insured as an Auto.. :-\
if you will continue to use 3.2 , worth every penny.. car transforms to a different one.. go for it.. :y
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must admit I cant drive miggy in relax mode after conversion.. its always like I escaped from hell.. hope you wont ;D
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You'd have to declare it as a modification - 'most' mainstream insurers will let you have a couple of modifications (though they'll charge accordingly depending on your age), or switch to a specialist like Adrian Flux/Sky/etc
I'm going to enquire tomorrow.... :y
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Please report your results James.It wold be interesting to know how much difference it makes. :y
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I've been running a R25 / 3.7 diff with a 3ltr for the past 2 years without problems.
Averaged about 25mpg on petrol / 22 on lpg with 90% of my time in traffic with a heavy load in the back.
Still get 28+mpg at 75 ish on a motoway.
Hth
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just one question. I note the clutch kit part numbers are different between 2.0 and 3.2 etc. Does that mean the flywheel etc from a 2.0 donor would be no use? Cluch plate on 2.0 is 220dia, and 240 on 3.2.....
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I used 2.5 vectra single mass flywheel from F25 .. (mine is 2.5)
dual mass flywheels and kits are expensive.. imo there may be someone using 3.2 manual in the group ..
so they may be able to tell..
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just one question. I note the clutch kit part numbers are different between 2.0 and 3.2 etc. Does that mean the flywheel etc from a 2.0 donor would be no use? Cluch plate on 2.0 is 220dia, and 240 on 3.2.....
need use parts from v6 as propshaft on 2.0 different too
2.0 flywheel wont fit V6
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Is this free manual box up by Swindon by any chance? ::)
Yes mate. I still haven't been able to organise collecting it, so it's yours if you want it?
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Is this free manual box up by Swindon by any chance? ::)
Yes mate. I still haven't been able to organise collecting it, so it's yours if you want it?
Only if youre certain mate? That would be a huge help. Am passing Swindon Sunday!
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Is this free manual box up by Swindon by any chance? ::)
Yes mate. I still haven't been able to organise collecting it, so it's yours if you want it?
Only if youre certain mate? That would be a huge help. Am passing Swindon Sunday!
Absolutely mate. I told Joff I'd collect it weeks ago, and I feel bad that I haven't been able to. If you can make use of it mate, it's all yours.
Can I leave you to arrange things with Joff?
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Cheers - PM sent to Joff!
With regards to the electrical side of this work... I understand the 3.2 differs to what's in the guide, being DBW and all that...
How is the ignition timing retard, starter inhibitor, and other such electrics set up, to configure the car as a manual?
Has it been confirmed whether Tech2 input is required, what changes need to be made, and if Tech2 is capable of doing this?
Cheers,
James
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R25 is supposed to be fine in a 3.0/3.2. Only difference was shot-peening of the gears on the R28.
It's not like an auto box where the clutches have to be sized for the torque output.
Are these boxes similar to the Omega A (Carlton) as they were named the same R25 and R28. Named for max BHP they could take. ie R25 = 250 brake. The only difference was, as stated, the R28 was shot peened to enable it to take up to 280 brake.
I'm guessing that all three on the Omega are hydraulic clutch operation. On the Carlton the R25 was cable then you had an in between which was designated R25/28, same internals as the R25 but with hydraulic clutch, then the R28 which was hardened gears and hydraulic. So would that make the R30 capable of dealing with up to 300 brake?
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My understanding is that the designation is torque in Nm, i.e. 250 or 280 Nm. A 3.2 puts out about 280 Nm of torque, IIRC.
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:-[ yes of course torque, not BHP.......how embarrassing.... Thanks for keeping me right :y
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So I just need to firm up the electrical aspects - the mechanical ones are otherwise no problem :y
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write down how you get on with the electrics james :y
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Cheers - PM sent to Joff!
With regards to the electrical side of this work... I understand the 3.2 differs to what's in the guide, being DBW and all that...
How is the ignition timing retard, starter inhibitor, and other such electrics set up, to configure the car as a manual?
Has it been confirmed whether Tech2 input is required, what changes need to be made, and if Tech2 is capable of doing this?
Cheers,
James
if you get stuck with something let me know and I pm you my phone nr or you can drop me your nr and will tell how to get all in right place :) :y
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Cheers - PM sent to Joff!
With regards to the electrical side of this work... I understand the 3.2 differs to what's in the guide, being DBW and all that...
How is the ignition timing retard, starter inhibitor, and other such electrics set up, to configure the car as a manual?
Has it been confirmed whether Tech2 input is required, what changes need to be made, and if Tech2 is capable of doing this?
Cheers,
James
if you get stuck with something let me know and I pm you my phone nr or you can drop me your nr and will tell how to get all in right place :) :y
Cheers Serek :y
The only worry I have, is the electrics, telling the ECU it's now a manual, etc... :-\ :y
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2.0 flywheel is definitely not suitable. wrong bolt pattern to crankshaft.
IMO, the Vectra / Cavalier flywheel isn't suitable, either as the clutch face is too close to the engine.
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2.0 flywheel is definitely not suitable. wrong bolt pattern to crankshaft.
IMO, the Vectra / Cavalier flywheel isn't suitable, either as the clutch face is too close to the engine.
I'm pretty sure Serek got over this by using a spacer. Sure there's some pics on here somewhere. :y
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Why not use an Omega V6 flywheel? :)
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that's the solution.
electrics is the easy bit - just go through the wiring diagram and remove everything that is auto. Probably the easiest part of the job.
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2.0 flywheel is definitely not suitable. wrong bolt pattern to crankshaft.
IMO, the Vectra / Cavalier flywheel isn't suitable, either as the clutch face is too close to the engine.
vectra b V6 its same size flywheel as omega
only differents is vectra its solid not DMF
early c20xe or c20let was fitted with ftat type flywheel (6.4) but that not problem too ;)
thats can be fitted to omega with this spacer
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab19/doubledecka2/2011_02240052.jpg)
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab19/doubledecka2/2011_02240051.jpg)
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that's the solution.
electrics is the easy bit - just go through the wiring diagram and remove everything that is auto. Probably the easiest part of the job.
I keep all electrics, just do few bridges on wiring so criuse control work
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that's the solution.
electrics is the easy bit - just go through the wiring diagram and remove everything that is auto. Probably the easiest part of the job.
I keep all electrics, just do few bridges on wiring so criuse control work
when we made manual conversion , cruise control work was solved with some wiring..
but nobody cant find ignition retard wiring :-\ ?
"Locate the Bk/R wire on pin 42, cut off as far from pin 42 as possible (can do this further up the loom if preferred) then solder to one of the thin Brown wires and tape joint."
we had trouble with pin 42 and colors :(
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that's the solution.
electrics is the easy bit - just go through the wiring diagram and remove everything that is auto. Probably the easiest part of the job.
I keep all electrics, just do few bridges on wiring so criuse control work
when we made manual conversion , cruise control work was solved with some wiring..
but nobody cant find ignition retard wiring :-\ ?
"Locate the Bk/R wire on pin 42, cut off as far from pin 42 as possible (can do this further up the loom if preferred) then solder to one of the thin Brown wires and tape joint."
we had trouble with pin 42 and colors :(
thats what I found with wires for criuse control near ecu they are different on year of the car think its 3 or 4 different wiring for it
I done conversion on my mate 3.0 and cant see any differents if the wire from pin 42 is cut off or not, any way on 2.6 and 3.2 they are have different witing too ::)
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that's the solution.
electrics is the easy bit - just go through the wiring diagram and remove everything that is auto. Probably the easiest part of the job.
I keep all electrics, just do few bridges on wiring so criuse control work
when we made manual conversion , cruise control work was solved with some wiring..
but nobody cant find ignition retard wiring :-\ ?
"Locate the Bk/R wire on pin 42, cut off as far from pin 42 as possible (can do this further up the loom if preferred) then solder to one of the thin Brown wires and tape joint."
we had trouble with pin 42 and colors :(
thats what I found with wires for criuse control near ecu they are different on year of the car think its 3 or 4 different wiring for it
I done conversion on my mate 3.0 and cant see any differents if the wire from pin 42 is cut off or not, any way on 2.6 and 3.2 they are have different witing too ::)
yep.. wirings are different and even colors.. :-\
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best to remove all auto wiring completely,and control boxes, etc. Not just cut off
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best to remove all auto wiring completely,and control boxes, etc. Not just cut off
why??
whats wrong with cut off??
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it's a bodge.
if we're converting to another spec, its best to do it properly, rather than leave half the components in place.
any mod should be done at least to the same standard as the original manufacture, if not better.
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I have an R25/28 for sale for a reasonable amount, also, my 2.5TD (with r25 fitted) is available which has a Sachs Clutch fitted 18 months ago (15-20k) and reasonable DMF...
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it's a bodge
if we're converting to another spec, its best to do it properly, rather than leave half the components in place.
any mod should be done at least to the same standard as the original manufacture, if not better.
so can you share your way to do conversion properly please
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in the wiring department...
remove engine loom, trace and remove each wire relating only to auto. Re-tape loom and install.
remove extra connector at back of battery, trace and remove each wire into the passenger compartment. Remove transmission ecu and likewise remove all the wires from the loom.
reversing lamps wiring to be moved to tunnel outlet and connected to loom as per manual car.
not forgetting the extra earth pin to ECU
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thanks for your replay on that :)
but that only part of electric work , what about criuse control wiring ?? and information on MID
sorry for being pain with all this questions but I want do things properly ;) in future
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cruise is kinda a separate entity, but yes it would make sense to do at the same time if needed.
what changes to MiD ? I can't think that I've ever needed to do any
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cruise is kinda a separate entity, but yes it would make sense to do at the same time if needed.
what changes to MiD ? I can't think that I've ever needed to do any
"new autobox required" warning signal from the autobox ECU to the mid is all I can think of...