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1

Omega Electrical and Audio Help / Re: Electrics staying On when ign key removed.

« on: 07 December 2009, 19:09:45 »

Thankyou everyone for the comments.
The heavy load had no effect.
I have now found the fault, this was not the power sounder but the Anti Theft Warning Sounder under the RH scuttle. When this was disconnected normal service was resumed.

aren't those just different names for the same device?  :-/

Not according to the Haynes manual from the electric wiring diagram for circuit 957, and associated description Ch12- Sect 22.6 & 22.4. The former is H47 the Anti theft alarm horn and fed by the 30A power feed FV5 (mounted either under the scuttle or under the LH wing), the later H24 the Warning horn (under the scuttle - RH side) and fed from F14.

2

Omega Electrical and Audio Help / Re: Electrics staying On when ign key removed.

« on: 07 December 2009, 17:04:26 »

I would try removing the power sounder too. They have both a permanent and switched feed to them, in close proximity, and in a position prone to getting shorted by crud from leaking batteries.

When the engine is running-on can it be stopped by switching on a heavy load in the ignition circuit? I.E. heated seats, front cigar lighter, etc?

Kevin

I will have a look at the power sounder.
Not sure about the heavy load since I am now running the car almost all of the time with fuse 14 removed. Bizzarly, if I turn on a heated seat control (no F14), the PAS sometimes starts to work & continues so even when the seat heater is turned off. All these items (Seat heaters, PAS etc should be not working with F14 removed, but I am guessing that enough power is leaking into the circuit fed by F14 from some other device (or wiring loom fault) to enable the appropriate relay controls to operate.

Thankyou everyone for the comments.
The heavy load had no effect.
I have now found the fault, this was not the power sounder but the Anti Theft Warning Sounder under the RH scuttle. When this was disconnected normal service was resumed.

3

Omega Electrical and Audio Help / Re: Electrics staying On when ign key removed.

« on: 03 December 2009, 13:45:45 »

I would try removing the power sounder too. They have both a permanent and switched feed to them, in close proximity, and in a position prone to getting shorted by crud from leaking batteries.

When the engine is running-on can it be stopped by switching on a heavy load in the ignition circuit? I.E. heated seats, front cigar lighter, etc?

Kevin

I will have a look at the power sounder.
Not sure about the heavy load since I am now running the car almost all of the time with fuse 14 removed. Bizzarly, if I turn on a heated seat control (no F14), the PAS sometimes starts to work & continues so even when the seat heater is turned off. All these items (Seat heaters, PAS etc should be not working with F14 removed, but I am guessing that enough power is leaking into the circuit fed by F14 from some other device (or wiring loom fault) to enable the appropriate relay controls to operate.

4

Omega Electrical and Audio Help / Re: Electrics staying On when ign key removed.

« on: 03 December 2009, 13:33:28 »

Try removing the radio and see if it makes a difference

 :-?

Is it the original radio?

I know nothing about you cars history but I would be looking for either a poor aftermarket radio install or caravan wiring (particular warning signs being: sticky tape, twisted together wires and Scotchblocks).

Unlikely for an aftermarket radio to develop this kind of fault - bad wiring / incorrect installation would be shown up when fitted

Not uncommon for OEM radio to do this - On other Vx models, Astra Vectra etc, fault is often caused by knackered Beesting aerial that is full of water and staying on

 

The radio is the original Vx one with CD autochanger.
I have taken out the radio but has no effect on the problem.
I did consider the radio as a possibility as my grandson posted various coins into it and I had to remove the radio & covers to remove the coins. The radio since has recently often gone off & on whilst driving (seems to loose power and then regains it again immediately) but could be down to more coins being posted. Anyway if removed it cannot be the cause of the problem.
The car does have tow bar wiring but this was installed soon after being bought back in 1998 (2 owners from new). All the electrics at the 2 sockets exhibit expected behaviour so unlikely that this is the cause.

5

Omega Electrical and Audio Help / Re: Electrics staying On when ign key removed.

« on: 29 November 2009, 19:48:26 »

Hi
Thank you for all the replies.
I can be sure that the problem is NOT the ignition key switch.
Having now rebuilt the switch and taken off the cable connector, the problem is unchanged.
Nor is it the rear bulb.

The problem of the car not starting up, but turning over, has been repeated now a number of times.
The problem has now progressed to when the key is removed, the engine sometimes will NOT stop.
Disconnecting the battery does NOT stop the engine when in this mode !

I have now found:

1) The car often behaves normally but less so recently.

2) The ignition key does not affect the problem. The problems seems to be a fault tied to 1 or more of the many circuits that totally bypass the ignition key (e.g. alarm, cooling fan run-on, air con run-on, curtesy lights, hazzard lights, central locking, radio etc etc.).

3a) When the electrics stay on (engine startup lights ON but dimmer than normal & climate control lights), removing the relays in the fuse compartment & next to the EMC (engine compartment relay cluster) has no effect.
3b) The Battery has to be disconnected to avoid a rapid flat battery.
3c) When restarting the car, sometimes the car will not start, with the engine warning light flashing and random faults (such as automatic gearbox fault) displayed. Disconnecting & reconnecting the Battery SOMETIMES clears the flashing engine warning light & car can restart. I am now fairly sure that this is a result of low voltage being fed to the Engine Management Computer causing unpredictable engine behaviour when normal voltage is reapplied on normal turn-on - see Fuse 14 below. Hence I think that this behaviour (3c) is a red-herring.

FUSE 14:
4a) Removing this fuse always allows the car to start (but disables PAS amongst other things).
4b) Removing this fuse will stop the car IF the car keeps on running after the key has been removed (with or without battery disconnection).
4c) Removing this fuse causes the dash lights to go out if they have stayed ON (key removed).
4d) Removing this fuse does NOT stop the climate control lights from staying ON

Fuse 12:
5a)  When this is removed, the climate control lights will go out (seems to be OFF from the instrument controls) BUT the
climate control fans can now be heard to be working but at low speed. Only cure is again to disconnect the battery.
5b) When fitted AND Fuse 14 removed the climate control lights are ON but there is virtually no power draw. I can leave the car in this state all night & start it up OK the following day.

The fault has all the hallmarks of being 1 or more relays being faulty (but not those mentioned above - 3a). Conceivably it could be a wiring fault but the fact that the car can work normally at times AND the behaviour can change with battery disconnection/ reconnection or fuse removal, i.e. with no movement of the car affecting wiring (vibration or wire movement from car travel), seems to dispel this hypothesis.

Feedback gratefully received.

Many Thanks.

6

Omega Electrical and Audio Help / Re: Electrics staying On when ign key removed.

« on: 21 November 2009, 12:07:23 »

Thankyou for the suggestion.
I have tried removing the connections from the ignition switch but this made no difference; electrics still on.

Unfortunately in trying to remove the wiring from the switch, the switch has broken apart since the cables do not come out of the switch easily. So the switch is now in pieces.
Any other suggestions would still be welcome.

7

Omega Electrical and Audio Help / Electrics staying On when ign key removed.

« on: 20 November 2009, 20:21:23 »

Hi,

I have a problem with a 1997 Vx Omega CDxi 2.5.
When I turn OFF the engine and REMOVE the key, the electrics sometimes stays ON.
This has now happened three times in the past few weeks & fully flattens the battery if not caught in time.
The first 2 no idea why started working again after a recharge & general tinkering about, but now not working.

The electrics are:
- dash warning lights ON (all those before the engine starts-up),
- plus the heater/ climate control is ON but could not hear any fans.
- this last time the engine would not start.
- possibly other electrics stay on as well but seems pointless to investigate further what is ON & OFF at this stage.
- BUT all the lights are dimmer than normal. When the Ign key is reinstered & turned ON, the lights return to their normal brightness.
- if battery disconnected & reconnected later, behaviour above unchanged

I assume that the problem is either a faulty relay or the ignition key switch being faulty, and NOT the ECU (since when car starts up it behaves correctly).
However because the lights dim when the key is removed (or behaves normally & all go out), then the key switch would seem to be OK as the contacts (assume 1 for each key position) must be opening & closing correctly.

I have removed all the relays in the fuse compartment under the steering wheel, and as expected the lights stay ON.
I have removed all the relays in the ECU compartment, one by one, and again the lights stay ON.

I am not sure what other relay(s) could be affecting the control, and where this/ these could be.
I have the Haynes manual but I do not find the electric wiring diagram very useful/ clear to trace out general faults.

I have searched the various postings but cannot find anything similar.

Any advice in tracking down this problem would be gratefully received.

Many thanks.

8

Omega Electrical and Audio Help / Anti theft warning horn

« on: 07 December 2009, 10:56:34 »

Hi
Does anyone know where exactly the anti theft warning horn is located ?
The Haynes manual states it is on the bulk head in the engine compartment. Is this under the wiper tray (i.e. the wipers have to be removed) or behind the engine somewhere as I cannot see it ?

Is this meant to work when the alarm is turned on/ off, or only in an alarm condition (i.e. what is the easiest way of testing it without also sounding the power sounder) ?

I understand that the power sounder is located under the LH wing (presumably near the horns) ?

Many thanks

9

Omega General Help / Re: Auto gearbox & Water

« on: 24 January 2011, 14:03:26 »

Presumably there is no simple way of draining the torque converter before reassembly of the sumps & refilling with ATF (for example, I assume that the outlet to the rad is not from the torque converter before feeding into the sump) ?

no,the converter can't be drained but in your case should be fine anyway as the car wasn't started after the mishap

Yep, water won't have got into the torque converter unless the engine was run because the fluid is pumped there by the engine driven pump in the gearbox.

Only way to drain the torque converter is to drop the gearbox and remove it.

Kevin

OK Thanks for this,
I was just a bit concerned as I have just dropped the 2 sumps again after a short drive (~8 miles) and the newly refilled ATF seems very dirty (mid brown rather than the red) and there was some "mayo" already in the main sump box). But emptying the ATF into a clear container, the oil has not yet seperated after an hour or so into water & oil layers - unlike before where there was more water than oil !.

10

Omega General Help / Re: Auto gearbox & Water

« on: 24 January 2011, 13:39:51 »

Presumably there is no simple way of draining the torque converter before reassembly of the sumps & refilling with ATF (for example, I assume that the outlet to the rad is not from the torque converter before feeding into the sump) ?

11

Omega General Help / Re: Auto gearbox & Water

« on: 24 January 2011, 10:22:28 »

Anyone???.....

Torque converter is not sealed. The gearbox fluid is circulated through it by the pump in the gearbox.

I would first disconnect the cooler hoses at the gearbox and the radiator. Thoroughly blow these through with an airline to purge them of any water. Blow through the cooler part of the radiator, again, to remove any water. Use something like an old killaspray to purge these with fresh ATF, if possible.

Drop the sumps on the gearbox and discard the fluid, reassemble and refill.

As an extra precaution when refilling with the engine running I would leave off the return hose from the cooler (can't remember which one this is) until it has bled off a little fluid before stopping and reconnecting it, just to be on the safe side. 

I'm sure a tiny amount of water will probably do no harm and get "breathed" out of the box as soon as it exceeds boiling point but any significant amount of water will wreck it, so it is vital that the above is done before starting the engine IMHO.

I would also suggest a second fluid change once the car has been driven and found to be OK, just to make sure.

Kevin

Thank you all for the various replies & suggestions.
I have now emptied both sumps plus the water & remaining ATF, blown through the rad pipes (rad itself was OK), and done everything to try to remove any water in the box. I have then refilled & taken the car on a short test drive, and it is working so far, but I will empty & refill the box shortly to see if there is any more water flushed into the sumps.

Q
From the above re tiny amount of water breathing out, can it actually do this ?  I.e. is there a breather on the gearbox as such as I thought that the box was essentially sealed in that what ever is in the box stays in the box ? If it is essentially sealed would the steam not blow a hole in a gasket somewhere ?

Many thanks

12

Omega General Help / Re: Auto gearbox & Water

« on: 19 January 2011, 14:01:46 »

Thanks for the replies, but the car has cost too much recently anyway for its current value & the wife has been wanting a change so this would seem to be the time for it to go.

Presumably any atf recharge/ change could NOT be done through the coolant pipes next to the rad ?

13

Omega General Help / Re: Auto gearbox & Water

« on: 19 January 2011, 13:37:57 »

Also what is a double atf change ?

14

Omega General Help / Re: Auto gearbox & Water

« on: 19 January 2011, 13:36:13 »

Car not yet started.
Fluid came out from under the gearbox area, but no it will not reach the drains.

15

Omega General Help / Auto gearbox & Water

« on: 19 January 2011, 13:29:22 »

Help needed for someone who has just done a stupid action.
I have a V6 Auto Omega which has just had a replacement aux belt & tensioner which failed on a journey. Having had it repaired then on the way back it was losing water & needed a replacement radiator (which I have just fitted).
I thought that the radiator coolant for the Auto gearbox was also water rather than oil (i.e. that the rad coolant was also just pumped around the gearbox).
Having flushed the coolant pipes to the gearbox from next to the rad with water does this now make the gearbox & hence the car terminal, if not what needs to be done to recover the situation !